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Speaker 1: We know that stingers aren't the only danger at this

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Speaker 1: time of the year, with a number of people bitten

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Speaker 1: by snakes in recent weeks.

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Speaker 2: St.

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Speaker 1: John Ambulance treated a fifteen year old boy who was

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Speaker 1: bitten at green Ant Creek in Lichfield last week, telling

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Speaker 1: us there have been other victims in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. Now, a man that knows a lot about

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Speaker 1: the reptiles, working with them every day, he joins me

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Speaker 1: on the line right now. He's the director of the

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Speaker 1: Alla Springs Reptile Center, Rex Nindorf. Good morning to you,

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Speaker 1: Rex Katie. How are you yeah, really good? Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us this morning. Tell us snake's usually

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Speaker 1: more active at this time of the year.

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Speaker 2: I certainly are, but it all depends on a number

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Speaker 2: of reasons. And at the moment, Owl Springs, excuse me

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Speaker 2: out the moment, now, Well Springs, there's several reasons. So one,

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Speaker 2: there's a few mice getting around. Twos, it's now getting

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Speaker 2: a little bit drier, and so what happens is their

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Speaker 2: food is looking for water, so they follow the food

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Speaker 2: in because they don't necessarily need very much water compared

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Speaker 2: what we do. They don't sweat when they go to toilet,

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Speaker 2: that urine comes out solid. So that's why reptiles dominate

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Speaker 2: deserts in any country on the planet because they don't

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Speaker 2: waste moisture, so they can survive in deserts better than

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Speaker 2: any other animal, but their food sources obviously can't, so

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Speaker 2: they follow the food in. And then the other thing

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Speaker 2: is we've got fires, and when those fires burn right

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Speaker 2: to the edge of town, that will obviously push animals

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Speaker 2: out further from where the fire was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So it's not so much the hot weather,

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Speaker 1: it's more just it's more that the other aspects, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you can be up here in winter. In winter

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Speaker 2: in central Australia, you're looking at you know, eighteen to

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Speaker 2: twenty two degrees during the day, and reptiles will be

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Speaker 2: out during the day as well, so they don't technically hibernate.

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Speaker 2: If it's warm enough, they'll wake up. So you can

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Speaker 2: see a reptil almost anytime up here through winter as well,

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Speaker 2: but they'll operate in the middle of the day and

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Speaker 2: not at night time, whereas now that the weather's getting warm.

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Speaker 2: So yesterday was around about forty degrees celsius. So when

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Speaker 2: you look at days like that, you don't see them

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Speaker 2: during the day because it's too hot something. I'll preak

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Speaker 2: first thing in the morning and at nighttime, which changes everything.

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Speaker 1: Now, what's the likelihood of someone being dicent Is it

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Speaker 1: normally like through an accidental interaction.

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Speaker 2: There's two ways people get bitten. One is completely accidental,

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Speaker 2: so you're walking through long grass and you step on it.

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Speaker 2: And then the other ways people deliberately interfering with the snake.

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Speaker 2: So they see a snake and they go after it,

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Speaker 2: you know, they throw rocks at it, poked with a stick,

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Speaker 2: try and pick it up, anything like that, and then

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Speaker 2: the snake reacts and if you're bitten in that manner,

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Speaker 2: you're probably going to get a far worse bite. So

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Speaker 2: snakes are really quite very shy creatures and they try

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Speaker 2: and keep away from as far as they can. I

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Speaker 2: get people tell me all the time that snake's chasing,

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Speaker 2: But I've been I'm fifty five and I've bought snakes

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Speaker 2: since eighteen and I've never had a snake chase me.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I've got to chase every snake when I

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Speaker 2: go on a snake action, and I'm fairly fat doing that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you know, snakes don't chase. They get

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Speaker 2: away from as far as they can. Snakes will come

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Speaker 2: towards you, and they do that as a bluff. So

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Speaker 2: they'll actually, you know, come towards you for about half

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Speaker 2: a meter to a meter and they do that as

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Speaker 2: a bluff, and they stop them and they retreat. So

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Speaker 2: snakes will definitely bluff you out of things, but they

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Speaker 2: definitely don't chase. They have no interest in our swapsoever.

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Speaker 2: And I've never ever been bitten while catching a snake.

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Speaker 2: So I've had two bites. I've had a bite from

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Speaker 2: my western brown snake and a bite from mulga snake,

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Speaker 2: both requiring any bit them. But I've never ever been

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Speaker 2: bitten while actually catching a snake. So snakes very rarely

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Speaker 2: attempt to bite. It's a cost to their resource to

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Speaker 2: waste venom and then reproduce the venom.

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Speaker 1: So rex a couple of comments there, mate. First off,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be bitten by two snakes, aren't

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Speaker 1: they like the two worst kind to be bitten by.

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Speaker 2: You probably won't want to get bidden by either. But

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Speaker 2: we're fairly lucky in Australia. We've got excellent medical resources.

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Speaker 2: So those people who die around the world from snake

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Speaker 2: bite is people who are very poor, who live in

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Speaker 2: poor countries, and they can't afford access to good medical

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Speaker 2: care and of course good quality any venoms. So in Australia,

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Speaker 2: even though we have the world's most venom of snakes,

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Speaker 2: and even though we might have you know, several thousand

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Speaker 2: people a year bidden by snakes, it is actually very

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Speaker 2: very hard to die from snake bite in this country.

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Speaker 2: And each year we average about two deaths and that's

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Speaker 2: about it. And yet people are worried about snakes. So

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Speaker 2: you know, you can walk outside and get hit by

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Speaker 2: a bus or hit by a car with a far

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Speaker 2: greater certainty than what you'ver going to do to be

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Speaker 2: nailed by a snake and die from snake bite in Australia.

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Speaker 2: So most of what we do is we try and

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Speaker 2: re educate people about snakes. And there's also a big

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Speaker 2: school of thought about snakes in your yard and getting

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Speaker 2: the removed. If I look at somewhere like Darwin, which

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Speaker 2: is where you guys are, if you look at the

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Speaker 2: top end area, you know a lot of the top

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Speaker 2: end is heavily dominated by say tree snakes or pythons,

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Speaker 2: which are both non venomous. Then of course, of course

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Speaker 2: you've got the brown tree snake, which is mildly venomous

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Speaker 2: rear fact snake, and then you've got things like slaty Gray's.

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Speaker 2: And you do have the odd western on sorry northern

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Speaker 2: bound snake up there, which of course is highly venomous

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Speaker 2: and it has caused death. But the vast majority are

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Speaker 2: non venomous snakes or the snakes that the reason get

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Speaker 2: along with up there, and they really don't need to

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Speaker 2: be removed at all. So we really should be learning

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Speaker 2: to live with the snake. And even here in our springs,

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Speaker 2: if you had a western brown snake in your backyard,

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Speaker 2: it's only going to stay there for a very short

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Speaker 2: time and take off. The real issue is a snake

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Speaker 2: getting inside your inside your house, because when a snake

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Speaker 2: gets inside the house, it only goes in there to

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Speaker 2: chase food and then it wants to get back out again.

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Speaker 2: So you don't want a western round snake stuck inside

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Speaker 2: your house when things become serious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, one of the other things you said just

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Speaker 1: a moment ago is most of the time with the snakes,

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Speaker 1: they're just bluffing you when they do come towards you,

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Speaker 1: So if they do that, what's the best advice, Just

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Speaker 1: stay away from them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if they bluff you, you know, if you've got

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Speaker 2: a snake coming towards you, the best thing to do is

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Speaker 2: just stay really still. So we're fairly like in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Most makes their eyesights not that good. And the good

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Speaker 2: thing about our venomous snakes and so is they don't

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Speaker 2: detect heat. So if you go to other countries in

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Speaker 2: the world and they have a snake called a pit viber,

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Speaker 2: pit vipers have two forward facing heat sencing pits and

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Speaker 2: they can see the heat picture of you, and so

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Speaker 2: therefore they them become confused and think you're a predator,

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Speaker 2: whereas in Australia, no venomous snake can detect heat. So

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Speaker 2: the best thing to do is stand very still and

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Speaker 2: just wait till a snake puts its head down and

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Speaker 2: goes away from your gymal. A snake will, if it

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Speaker 2: rears up at you, will spe no more than thirty seconds,

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Speaker 2: but it's head in the air and you'll see the

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Speaker 2: tongue coming out there smelling everything, and their sense of

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Speaker 2: smell is highly acute, like they'll know what you had

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Speaker 2: for breakfast. Four days ago, so their sense of smell

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Speaker 2: is highly acute. But you don't smell like a ratter

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Speaker 2: a mouse. I want a snake to bite you, Katie,

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Speaker 2: I'll get a rat of a mouse and rubb below

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Speaker 2: your feet and stick to in front of a snake

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Speaker 2: and it'll tide to youely. Not many people tend to

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: I'd be packing myself if a snake looks swearing, aren't me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I do snake training courses, so I train

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Speaker 2: people to catch room moose snakes. And I've got a

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Speaker 2: course coming up this Monday, and I'll have quite a

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Speaker 2: few western brown snakes and mulgar snakes on that course.

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Speaker 2: And when people are on that course, they see the

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Speaker 2: benefit of standing still. Yeah. So as soon as you

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Speaker 2: stay still, the snake will literally sit there for about

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds. Then it'll put its head down and it'll

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Speaker 2: just wander off the opposite direction. They have no interest

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Speaker 2: in our s whatsoever. And that's where people make the mistake,

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Speaker 2: is because when a snake does put its head up,

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Speaker 2: they think it's about to strike them, and therefore they

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Speaker 2: take action, whereas it's not really what it's doing is

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Speaker 2: it's gaining its bearings. And it's also bluffing you. So

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Speaker 2: it's like cobbras when cobbers rear up and they put

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Speaker 2: their hood out, so they're trying to make themselves look

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Speaker 2: bigger than what they are. So all you need to

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Speaker 2: do is just stay very still and just wait till

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Speaker 2: a snake rides it out, because there's stakes that are

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Speaker 2: a really tiny brain, So you just wait till they

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Speaker 2: ride it out and then if they go so as

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Speaker 2: good at a little bit. Yeah, Crocodiles are a bit different.

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Speaker 2: Crocodiles are much smarter. So crocodiles are fairly smart, and

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Speaker 2: they also are patient. There's no patient human on the planet,

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Speaker 2: so crocodiles will just sit and watch you and wait.

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Speaker 2: Whereas snakes, they're quite easy to get along with as

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Speaker 2: far as that respect goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Rex, tell me because people are so like

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Speaker 1: so many people are absolutely petrified of snakes and you

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Speaker 1: know you might see one in the yard and that's it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're wanting to burn your own house down

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Speaker 1: rather than with the snake nearby? Are they are there

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Speaker 1: more of them in our yard and around our home

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Speaker 1: areas than what we realize.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get people tell me that they've lived in

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Speaker 2: the house for twenty years and they've never seen that snake.

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Speaker 2: And if I pull out a full grown western which

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Speaker 2: might be three feet long, so about a meat along,

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Speaker 2: it's probably lived there for ten years or more and

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Speaker 2: it's gone throughout every second day. So snakes may not

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Speaker 2: be territorial as such that they're protecting a territory, but

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Speaker 2: they're fairly habitual, so they do roughly the same thing

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Speaker 2: almost every single day. So in our springs, you might

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Speaker 2: have a street with about ten houses on it and

196
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Speaker 2: they're constantly doing a circuit and they're just after food

197
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Speaker 2: and things like that. So we have we've had several

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Speaker 2: callouts in the last couple of days. One was over

199
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Speaker 2: on the back side of the golf course here in

200
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Speaker 2: town and I was called to get a western round snake,

201
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Speaker 2: which is a black at a western brown snakes, so

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Speaker 2: they've got a jet black e of the bright gold

203
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Speaker 2: body yep. And and I was called out at probably

204
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Speaker 2: about two thirty in the afternoon and I got to

205
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Speaker 2: the property, there was no sign of it, and the

206
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Speaker 2: lady said, you know, it's in that corner. But in

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Speaker 2: the corner there was a gap through the fence. So

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Speaker 2: obviously gone into the next door neighbors, and I said,

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Speaker 2: just keep an eye out. I said, you might see

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Speaker 2: it towards the end of the day on its way

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Speaker 2: back home. And I think it was nine point thirty

212
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Speaker 2: or something that night and I got another call out

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Speaker 2: and there was the same snake on the driveway, so

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Speaker 2: I shot over there and we were able to catch it.

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Speaker 2: So the snakes are pretty habitual in what they do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So if you find one in your yard,

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Speaker 1: chances are it's not the first time that it's been there.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not. It's probably a snake in the bedroom. It's

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Speaker 2: probably not the first time between in their ear.

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Speaker 1: Holy Jolie, you'll be scaring. It's all Rex. I know

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Speaker 1: some people are totally okay with them. I look, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I find them a bit frightening. But after speaking to

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Speaker 1: you this morning, I find it quite fascinating. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you actually think to yourself, okay, with a large majority,

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Speaker 1: aren't going to aren't going to hurt you. You know,

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Speaker 1: they are a bit more full of bluff than what

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Speaker 1: we are, what we might think, and really that, you know,

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Speaker 1: much like nature more generally, we've got to try to

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Speaker 1: live harmoniously with each other.

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Speaker 2: That's that's probably true, and that's not only true for Australia,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of places around the world. We've got

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Speaker 2: animals that are potentially dangerous, but it's quite easy to

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Speaker 2: live a monthst and you know, you only have to

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Speaker 2: look at the dingo situation the moment. In certain parts

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Speaker 2: of Australia and in certain parts of Australia they can

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Speaker 2: cause issues, but those issues are mainly man made. So

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Speaker 2: and the snake sees us as really nothing. They have

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Speaker 2: no interest in us whatsoever. Excuse me. So snakes are

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Speaker 2: really small. So if you look at a meat along

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Speaker 2: western brown snape or up north we've got a northern

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Speaker 2: brown snake, same thing. You know, they're tiny there on

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Speaker 2: the ground. You know they're chasing a skin kagek or

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Speaker 2: and mouses their food. They have no interest in ours whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got this big human come along and it,

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Speaker 2: you know, interacts with the snake, or a human throws

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Speaker 2: a rock or a stick at it, so the snake

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Speaker 2: rip becomes responsive. But if you just sit and watch

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Speaker 2: the snake, it'll just do its own thing. There's been

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Speaker 2: plenty of times now where people have videoed snakes, and

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Speaker 2: they've seen the snake and that you know, it's putting

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Speaker 2: its head down burrows and searching and things like that.

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Speaker 2: It's just like us going to have a coffee, and

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Speaker 2: they're just doing the same thing. So if you give

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Speaker 2: them enough space and enough time, they realize that they're

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Speaker 2: just doing their own daily things. You know, we go

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Speaker 2: to work as such to earn money, and they just

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Speaker 2: don't do that. They just get out and they just

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Speaker 2: run around and get food and things like that, and

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Speaker 2: then off they go back to bed.

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Speaker 1: Wow, wake up the next day and do it. There

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Speaker 1: you go.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's easy to avoid being bidden. So one

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Speaker 2: of the main things is to keep home nice and

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Speaker 2: clean and tidy. Having said that, I've got here in

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Speaker 2: our springs, he's got the tidiest house possible. And then

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Speaker 2: both neighbors have got crap in their yards, and so

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Speaker 2: the snake uses her house as a highway to go

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Speaker 2: from one to the other. So the main thing is

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Speaker 2: keep a crap out of the yard. So you keep

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Speaker 2: your lawns down, keep all the heavy grass out, get

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Speaker 2: the tin off the ground. If you leave tin on

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Speaker 2: the ground, the mice go underneath it, which attracts the snakes.

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Speaker 2: So raise the tin. So get a couple of best

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Speaker 2: of bricks, put a palette, and then put the tin

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Speaker 2: on the palette. Famous bywood. Get a couple of best

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Speaker 2: of bricks, put a sheet of tin and put the

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Speaker 2: firewood on top of that, because it raises it off

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Speaker 2: the ground. If you leave it on the ground, the

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Speaker 2: mice skin underneath, and that's what the snakes are coming for.

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Speaker 2: The problem. Yeah, and your pathways. You want to keep

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Speaker 2: your pathways nice and openness and well loved at nighttime,

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Speaker 2: So if you're going out to the clothes line, if

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Speaker 2: you go into your car, those pathways where you're walking

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Speaker 2: all the time, they should be nice and open and

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Speaker 2: clear so you can see what you're doing. But the

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Speaker 2: main thing to remember is you don't want the snake

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Speaker 2: inside the house. So you've got to check all your

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Speaker 2: doors that lead outside and make sure you've got those

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Speaker 2: rubber strips on the bottom of the doors. And at

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Speaker 2: the start of every snake season, check those strips and

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Speaker 2: make sure they're in place. And so if the strip

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Speaker 2: has damage, just pull a rubber strip out and put

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Speaker 2: a new rubber strip in. But the main thing is

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Speaker 2: to stop them from getting inside the house because the

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Speaker 2: snake outside in the yard, it has got no interest

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Speaker 2: in us whatsoever. But when they're in the house and

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Speaker 2: let's say you've got a snake inside the house and

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Speaker 2: it eats a mouse, then that can't get back out

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Speaker 2: through that little tiny gap because it's got a mouse

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Speaker 2: and it's belly, and then it becomes a very unhappy

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Speaker 2: snake because it doesn't want to be trapped inside the house.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, Rex, you've given us so much to think

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Speaker 1: about this morning. Mate. I'll tell you what tell me

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Speaker 1: before I let you go. Have you had an increase

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Speaker 1: in call out in recent weeks in Central Australia with

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Speaker 1: the fires and the various other things that have been happening.

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Speaker 2: We've had quite a few call outs, but it's also

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Speaker 2: you know, going into snake season as well. And for

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Speaker 2: the last three years you're in our springs, we've had

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Speaker 2: lots of call and that's simply because you know, we

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Speaker 2: had three years of wet seasons down here, so the

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Speaker 2: mice are upped up. And so when you get a

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Speaker 2: lot of mice coming around, and then the snakes are

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Speaker 2: happy because they're getting plenty of food, and then they'll

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Speaker 2: double clutch, which means, you know, when they get a

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Speaker 2: full belly, you know, the snakes can become nice and

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Speaker 2: you know, their bodies are really good, and so they

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Speaker 2: can produce a clutch of eggs. Then if there's plenty

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Speaker 2: of mice around, they can feed up again and produce

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Speaker 2: the second clutch of eggs. So it's what calls double clutching.

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Speaker 2: And I think the last three seasons the snakes around

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Speaker 2: here have probably done that because it's been three good

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Speaker 2: seasons and that's rare to see. And now we're going

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Speaker 2: back into a dry time, but there's been so many

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Speaker 2: snakes bread over the last couple of years that that'll

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Speaker 2: give us more. And then you've got the fires pushing

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Speaker 2: them into town. So our snake calls this year have

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Speaker 2: probably been on a par with the last three years

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Speaker 2: because we've had three good seasons beforehand. But I just

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Speaker 2: spoke to a catcher who's down at King's Creek Station

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Speaker 2: and I train them down there, and I think he

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Speaker 2: caught five Western browns and two Mulga snakes just in

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Speaker 2: one night. And they just had some rain down there,

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Speaker 2: and that rain would have stirred up all the activities.

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Speaker 2: So when you get a dry time and then you

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Speaker 2: get that little bit of rain coming out. And you

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Speaker 2: also said there's mice down there, which is another truggering factor.

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Speaker 2: So in certain times the snakes can come out, and

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Speaker 2: especially here in summer, they're highly active early in the

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Speaker 2: morning and at nighttime. It's just too hot during the day.

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Speaker 2: So humans are pretty stupid because if it's a stinging

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Speaker 2: hot day, we'll still wake up and go to work,

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Speaker 2: and if it's freezing cold, we did the same as

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Speaker 2: the snake doesn't do that. They put their head up,

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Speaker 2: go bugger that, and go back to bed. So when

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Speaker 2: it's really hot, they'll operate firstly in the morning at

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Speaker 2: nighttime because they've learned to live within the desert, whereas

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Speaker 2: we don't do that. We have air conditioning, we put

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Speaker 2: insulation in our home so we can survive the desert.

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Speaker 2: For the snakes live within the desert.

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Speaker 1: Well, Rex, I tell you Wash, this has been a

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Speaker 1: fascinating conversation, and we've got lots of messages coming through,

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Speaker 1: lots of people that are just terrified of snakes saying please, no,

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Speaker 1: don't tell me that there's a snake in my house

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Speaker 1: or that they go through my yard. So Rex nined Off,

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Speaker 1: the director of the Alice Springs Reptile Center. I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you having your chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk again soon