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Speaker 1: This is the Heavy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coilson,

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Speaker 1: where Luke and Suzi and this is the podcast for

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Speaker 1: the time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, what a privilege that I have to be in

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Speaker 2: a studio with you on a regular basis. Yes, it's

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Speaker 2: an amazing my wife, you know, and just beautiful, but

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Speaker 2: I do sometimes. You know, I've got my phone here

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Speaker 2: as well. I was just great because then I've got

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Speaker 2: two for while I've got the two closest people in

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Speaker 2: some interesting research and I say interesting, almost interesting, sad

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Speaker 2: about how important our smartphones are and it maybe you

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Speaker 2: might be usurped pretty soon.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, Aldi Mobile are the ones

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Speaker 1: you've come out with this research revealing that almost nine

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Speaker 1: in ten Australians get that in your head, almost nine

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Speaker 1: in ten Australians. Nearly ninety percent of people are saying

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Speaker 1: that their smartphone is their number one companion, ahead of

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Speaker 1: their parents, their pets, and their friends. Justin Coulson, this

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Speaker 1: is this is significant research and it kind of breaks

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Speaker 1: my heart.

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Speaker 3: A little bit. Have you seen The Lord of the Rings?

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Speaker 3: I've not seen part Okay, well you know who.

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Speaker 4: Golum is, right, Golum loses the ring. Bilbo Baggins ends

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Speaker 4: up with the ring, and you remember what Golum calls

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Speaker 4: the ring.

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Speaker 3: Precious, precious, precious. The Wicked Hobbits is, I've taken that precious.

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Speaker 4: Have you ever tried to take a device off somebody?

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Speaker 4: I was going to say, of one of your children,

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Speaker 4: But even if you're you.

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Speaker 1: It does not work. It's not a good idea.

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Speaker 3: Loke Luke becomes Golum. The wicked wife says, they taken

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Speaker 3: the precious.

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Speaker 4: I must have the precious, and we actually we treat

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Speaker 4: our devices as if they are the precious, and we

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Speaker 4: will cross heaven and Earth to get to keep our

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Speaker 4: devices close to us. I do this activity because I

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Speaker 4: speak in schools all around the country and in corporations

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Speaker 4: all around the country, and I teach people how to

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Speaker 4: have a healthy digital diet and specifically how to have

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Speaker 4: a healthy relationship with their part because I think most

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Speaker 4: of us have unhealthy relationships with our phone.

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Speaker 1: And we deceive ourselves into believing that our relationship with

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Speaker 1: our phone is still a relationship with people because we're

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Speaker 1: on social media and we're well occasionally using it for

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Speaker 1: actual phone calls.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that's so much more than a phone. Now

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Speaker 3: is that It's not is it?

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Speaker 1: It's it's not that.

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Speaker 3: But I do this activity where I get to.

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Speaker 4: Take their phone out, unlock it, and then hand it

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Speaker 4: to the person next to them.

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Speaker 3: You want to watch people.

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Speaker 4: I'm not just talking about teenagers here, I'm talking about adults.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly how I feel. Susie goes, oh, hey, can

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Speaker 2: I have your phone? And I'm like, where's yours. She's like,

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Speaker 2: it's in the other room.

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Speaker 5: I go get it.

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Speaker 2: And there's no reason, there's absolutely no reason why I

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Speaker 2: should hesitate.

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Speaker 1: Just give me your phone.

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Speaker 2: The end. But I feel that exactly what you just describe.

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Speaker 4: We actually it's been it's been scientifically shown that people

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Speaker 4: experience separation anxiety from their phone.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm feeling.

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Speaker 4: Soon the heart starts to race, the sweat lands starts

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Speaker 4: to release a little bit of extra more yeah, and

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Speaker 4: we begin to feel really, really uncomfortable with it. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's been some great studies published in the last few years,

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Speaker 4: and and by the way we are going through, we're

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Speaker 4: going through a massive experiment right now. Technology has never

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Speaker 4: been pervasive like this. And rather than waiting until a

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Speaker 4: bit of data is in to see how it's going

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Speaker 4: to affect us as a culture. We have just gone

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Speaker 4: I love this, and we've given it a great, big

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Speaker 4: bear hug and we've consumed it whole is bowlus without

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Speaker 4: knowing what it's doing to us. But the data that

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Speaker 4: is coming through, and it is still early days. Really

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Speaker 4: the data is I think providing us with some fairly

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Speaker 4: ominous warning signs that we've got to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: It is the Happy Famili's podcast, with all too many

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Speaker 1: people these days saying their phone is their best friend.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Colson speaking on this a little bit more

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Speaker 1: up next.

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Speaker 5: Everyone wants their family to be happy, but so much

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Speaker 5: gets in the way. Work, stress, commitments, and our children's

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Speaker 5: challenging behavior are some of the usual suspects, and we

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Speaker 5: can all tidy up our parenting style and get clearer

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Speaker 5: about what we'll actually make our family happier. Twenty one

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Speaker 5: Days to a Happier Family is the best selling parenting

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Speaker 5: book by doctor Justin Coulson, with answers to both common

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Speaker 5: and complicated parenting problems. Combining cutting edge scientific insights with

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Speaker 5: real examples of family life in the trenches. You'll find

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Speaker 5: dozens of strategies for making your family Happier. Twenty one

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Speaker 5: Days to a Happier Family, available online and from booksellers

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Speaker 5: everywhere and at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: It's The Happy Family's Podcast with doctor Justin Coulson, Luke

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Speaker 1: and Susie with you here as well and Justin. We

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Speaker 1: are talking about this statistic that's come out talking about

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Speaker 1: the very high proportion of people who call their phone

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Speaker 1: their best companion. What do we do to actually go

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Speaker 1: about battling this addiction that we have, this obsession that

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Speaker 1: we have with our phones.

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Speaker 4: Well, let me define it in the negative. Let's focus

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Speaker 4: about what we shouldn't do first. Okay, Number one, we

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Speaker 4: shouldn't be waking up in the morning and the first

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Speaker 4: thing that we look at being ou phone, especially before

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Speaker 4: we look at our spouse or you know, our partner,

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Speaker 4: our husband, our wife or our kids. I mean, and

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Speaker 4: if and if the phone is the first thing that

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Speaker 4: really gets your quality attention in the mornings, if the

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Speaker 4: phone has become your early morning coffee, I mean, coffee

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Speaker 4: is bad enough for you anyway, right, But now now

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Speaker 4: we're doing this psychological thing. We're going full into our

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Speaker 4: brain and bang and we're hitting it with all of this.

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Speaker 4: It's it's not actually a very good way to wake

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Speaker 4: up as bad if your brain. Similarly, if it's the

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Speaker 4: last thing you look at at night, you're not setting

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Speaker 4: yourself yourself up for a successful physical night of sleep

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Speaker 4: or mental night either. It's just not good preparation or

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Speaker 4: follow up from from sleep. But what it shows more

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Speaker 4: than anything is that we've got this compulsion to be

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Speaker 4: close to it. We sleep within our room, you know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes we'll wake up because we'll become aware that somebody

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Speaker 4: send it us a message, and even though we're on

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Speaker 4: silent mode, the room has just become illuminated with that.

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Speaker 3: Soft glow of the phone, you know, and there it is.

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Speaker 3: There's that glow, and you're like, oh, it's morning. Oh no,

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Speaker 3: it's not. It's somebody think and one in the morning somebody. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's right. But there's a handful of other things. Look,

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Speaker 3: let's go to the healthy digital diet question.

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Speaker 4: Specifically, when we're eating and consuming food and drink, there's

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Speaker 4: a food pyramid that indicates that some foods should be

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Speaker 4: consumed a lot, and some should be minimized and even avoided.

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Speaker 4: And it's the same with our device. A lot of

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Speaker 4: people say to me, how much screen time should my

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Speaker 4: kids be allowed to have? Well, there are some guidelines,

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Speaker 4: like for kids that are under two, the answer is zero,

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Speaker 4: and for kids who are a bit over to maybe

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Speaker 4: up to four or five, the answer is as little

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Speaker 4: as possible and hopefully no more than half to an

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Speaker 4: hour a day. Minimize it for the little kids especially,

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Speaker 4: and Australians typically completely ignore those guidelines in a significant

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Speaker 4: and serious and damaging way. But how much isn't really

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Speaker 4: the right question. I think what kind matters more. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like saying to a dietitian, how much food

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Speaker 4: should I eat every day? The dietitian is going to say, well,

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Speaker 4: it's not about how much, it's about what kind Exactly

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Speaker 4: what are we doing on our devices. If we've got

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Speaker 4: a digital junk food diet, then that's terribly unhealthy. If

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Speaker 4: we've got a really nutritional digital diet where we're using

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Speaker 4: our devices and our screens wisely to work and to

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Speaker 4: contribute and to learn and develop and grow, and if

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Speaker 4: our children are doing the same, then I think a

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Speaker 4: little bit more time isn't going to hurt at all.

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Speaker 4: In fact, it might be beneficial with a couple of

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Speaker 4: other really important things. You've got to make sure that

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Speaker 4: you and your kids are getting the physical activity that

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Speaker 4: you need. You know, I said to my kids when

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Speaker 4: they want to be on their screens, of course you can.

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Speaker 4: Once you've had a swim, once you've jumped on the trampoline,

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Speaker 4: once you've been for a bike ride, once you've done

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Speaker 4: something outside. And then they say, okay, I've done that.

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Speaker 4: Six minutes later, can I do something?

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Speaker 3: Can I get to my screens?

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Speaker 4: And I'll say, well, have you caught up with a friend,

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Speaker 4: have you spent some time face to face with somebody,

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Speaker 4: Have you done your chores, have you done any relevant schoolwork,

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Speaker 4: have you read a real book? And once your kids

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Speaker 4: have done all. See, we want to kids to have

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Speaker 4: a whole life, and we need to do the same thing.

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Speaker 4: By the way, yes, but I challenge you, by the way,

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Speaker 4: before I give you the challenge, I've got a good

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Speaker 4: challenge for you. But I think that you know, when

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Speaker 4: you're with people and they're staring at their phones. Research

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Speaker 4: shows at the more time we're staring at screens, the

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Speaker 4: poorer our social and emotional intelligence. It also shows that

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Speaker 4: our relationships deteriorate the phones actually make us dumb socially

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Speaker 4: and emotionally. Next, next time you're with people, just put

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Speaker 4: your phone away and keep it away. Actually try and

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Speaker 4: do that. It's really, really tough. I have this thing

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Speaker 4: when I'm out with friends, we get our phones and

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Speaker 4: we put them down on the table, face down, first

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Speaker 4: person to look at their phone pace for the lunch.

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Speaker 3: And it guarantees that everybody has a really great time.

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Speaker 4: You know, Studies have been shown that even the mere

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Speaker 4: presence of a phone decreases the quality of the interaction,

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Speaker 4: the quality of the trust, the quality of the emotional connection.

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Speaker 3: So here's my challenge for you this week.

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Speaker 4: Go to bed every night and make sure that in

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Speaker 4: at least the thirty minutes prior to going to bed, you.

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Speaker 3: Don't look at your device, brilliant.

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Speaker 4: And when you wake up, make sure that at least

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Speaker 4: the first thirty minutes no device, brilliant.

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Speaker 5: I love you.

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Speaker 2: I can handle the first thirty minutes. The last I've

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Speaker 2: got into a habit, and this is just strange. Just

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Speaker 2: as I get into bed, dimm the light on my

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Speaker 2: phone and I play a couple of hands of solitaire,

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Speaker 2: and that's the last thing I do, and I get

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Speaker 2: little bit sleeping. I get right, that's enough. The phone

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Speaker 2: goes down, and it's just become this little it's my

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Speaker 2: little got to sleep routine, and I'm going to struggle.

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Speaker 4: Justin just before, just before my I won't say who,

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Speaker 4: it was, a family member, just before she divorced her husband.

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Speaker 3: I remember her. I remember him saying to.

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Speaker 4: Her one day, you know, there's nobody I'd rather lay

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Speaker 4: in bed next to while they stare at their phone

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Speaker 4: than you.

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Speaker 3: Ouch. Look, they get in the way. I think that.

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Speaker 3: I think that in the way that's smoking.

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Speaker 4: You know when you walk past people who are smoking

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Speaker 4: now and everyone sort of looks at them and goes, oh,

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Speaker 4: nobody does that around here anymore. I know that some

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Speaker 4: people are still smoke, and I want to be sensitive

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Speaker 4: to the fact that some people actually want to do it,

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Speaker 4: and that's fine. But as a community, as a society,

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Speaker 4: we've kind of looked at people who smoked now and said,

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Speaker 4: don't do that around here.

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Speaker 3: It's not considerate.

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Speaker 4: And I think that where in the next maybe ten

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Speaker 4: or fifteen years, we're going to get to a point

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Speaker 4: like that with devices where people are going to be like, oh, really,

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Speaker 4: you've brought it to the restaurant.

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Speaker 3: Take that outside. If you're going to be on your phone,

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Speaker 3: take it outside, do it away from other people. It's

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Speaker 3: so rude, but.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a I think can you to me?

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Speaker 2: I will still defend the social nature of technology and

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Speaker 2: devices when you're not in the space with other people.

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Speaker 2: When I traveled overseas, videos and photo sharing and I

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Speaker 2: could share the experience, Susie was at home and I

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Speaker 2: felt more connected because of technology with someone I cared

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Speaker 2: about because of it. But when you're in the room

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Speaker 2: with the person, with somebody, and I have it as

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Speaker 2: a rule, when I'm in a meeting or at a

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Speaker 2: coffee with anybody, that phone goes off, they go, oh

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Speaker 2: you take it? No, no, no, I'm here with you, right,

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Speaker 2: So you put it away?

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Speaker 3: Spot on.

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Speaker 4: We send this message, don't we. When we're looking at

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Speaker 4: the phone, we're saying you don't matter as much as this.

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Speaker 4: It's funny one that you mentioned as well, though looked

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Speaker 4: just just briefly on that whole sharing experiences. The social

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Speaker 4: media aspect of being able to share the great things

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Speaker 4: that you're doing is wonderful. And again what type versus

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Speaker 4: how much? But this much, I will say that there's

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Speaker 4: a couple of studies and I've experienced it myself where

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Speaker 4: researchers have found that when we live life through the lens,

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Speaker 4: we tend not to enjoy life as.

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Speaker 3: Much and we actually miss out on stuff. I went

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Speaker 3: to a big bike race.

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Speaker 4: I'm a pretty obsessed cyclist.

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Speaker 3: I love writing my pushy and I used.

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Speaker 4: To race competitively, but with six kids in a business

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Speaker 4: that makes me travel a lot, I've stopped the competition.

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Speaker 4: But I still love to see a really great bike race.

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Speaker 4: I went to this bike race. I got there early.

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Speaker 4: I was right on the finish line, and I was

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Speaker 4: looking down the street so I could see the cyclist

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Speaker 4: as they came down the finishing straight, and they were

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Speaker 4: sprinting at like seventy k's an hour. They were giving

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Speaker 4: it everything, and I was looking through my phone and

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Speaker 4: videoing it so that I could share it with everybody,

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Speaker 4: because you know, he's the bike race here I am,

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Speaker 4: and I actually once they'd crossed the finish line, it

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Speaker 4: occurred to me that because I was trying so intently

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Speaker 4: to film it, I had no idea who'd won.

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Speaker 3: All I saw was a blur of bikes.

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Speaker 4: If i'd been there and if i'd really been in

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Speaker 4: the moment, I would have had a very different outcome.

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Speaker 4: It's all about mindfulness and the devices take us away

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Speaker 4: from the moment.

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Speaker 2: Now, just to recap on what type versus how much

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Speaker 2: listening to the Happy Families podcast compared to playing Candy Crush,

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Speaker 2: they're not a comparison.

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Speaker 4: A plus, you're going to have a lot more fun

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Speaker 4: and you're going to level up a lot faster.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not finished as a parent. You're going to

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Speaker 3: level up a lot faster as a parent as a

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Speaker 3: parent when you're off.

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Speaker 4: Candy on the Hatty Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: Because it's very clear that there are things we can

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Speaker 2: do with our devices which which help us to grow

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Speaker 2: and nurture it and even some of the fun stuff

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Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with it.

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Speaker 3: Every now and again we sit down as a family.

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Speaker 4: I have a daughter who's discovered this comedy troupe from

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Speaker 4: the US called Studio c. She thinks they're the funniest

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Speaker 4: people ever. And there's there are some really really funny gags.

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Speaker 4: There's this go to It. There's there's some really funny

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Speaker 4: gags on Studio See. Most of it I find pretty juvenile,

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Speaker 4: but there's a couple of really good ones, and as

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Speaker 4: a family, we'll sit down and we'll just watch YouTube

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Speaker 4: clips of Studio.

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Speaker 3: C for fifteen or twenty minutes every now and again.

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Speaker 4: Or you know, we'll laugh at something that's in somebody's

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Speaker 4: Facebook timeline, or there's nothing the matter with a little

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Speaker 4: bit of junk food now on there.

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Speaker 3: That's fun.

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Speaker 1: We've the kids and I've started watching a series called

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Speaker 1: Brain Games, and it's teaching you about different elements of

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Speaker 1: the brain. But it shows all these really cool there's

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Speaker 1: a little in the middle of the show. There's the

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Speaker 1: things that you can do like put your hand above

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Speaker 1: your head and close your eyes and then with your

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Speaker 1: other hand try and find your thumb and your finger.

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Speaker 1: And it's teaching things about the brain.

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Speaker 3: But we love it.

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Speaker 1: We love watching it together. So there is some good

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Speaker 1: stuff out there.

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Speaker 3: They just got to make the choice. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that we should ever ever say that

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Speaker 4: technology is bad.

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Speaker 3: Technology is neither good nor bad. Is what we do

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Speaker 3: with it that matters.

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Speaker 4: But to go right back full circle to where you

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Speaker 4: started this conversation, if we're saying that we prize our

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Speaker 4: phones as precious above our other relationships, then we have

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Speaker 4: a problem and we need to make sure that we

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Speaker 4: prioritize people ahead.

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Speaker 3: Of plasma or whatever they're made out of.

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Speaker 4: I'm just trying to keep the alliteration going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel poetic.

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Speaker 1: If your phone is your number one companion, like nine

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Speaker 1: out of ten other Australians, maybe it's time for change.

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Speaker 2: The difference between so you and my phone suits is

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Speaker 2: once I've worked out my phone, Hell, let's don't do

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Speaker 2: an update. I have know what to do with it forever.

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Speaker 1: I keep you on your toes.

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Speaker 4: You do do and I just thought of something else

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Speaker 4: as well. You know, the survey says it's nine out

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Speaker 4: of ten people you know in love with their phones.

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Speaker 3: They prioritize the people. So at least that means you're

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Speaker 3: not alone? Or are you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Lass Swings Rson, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Loads of resources are available to help build your family

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Speaker 1: into a happy family, including the great book twenty one

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Speaker 1: Days to a Happier Family. You can find more details

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com, dodau, books, resources, online courses.

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Speaker 1: That's happy families dot com dodau. And if you think

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Coulson might be a great fit for your event,

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Speaker 1: your community group, or your school to come and speak.

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Speaker 1: You can find out more about how you can book

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Speaker 1: him to come along at Justinculson dot com