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Speaker 1: We better get into it because joining us on the

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Speaker 1: line right now is the opposition leader Lea Fanocchiiro.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie and to your listeners. And everyone's freezing today.

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Speaker 1: It is very cold, there is no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: But Lea, there is so much to cover off on

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Speaker 1: this morning now. I'm not sure if you heard me

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Speaker 1: mentioned just a short time ago, but this Mail and

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Speaker 1: Weapons Offenses Review task Force, the report, I've got my

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Speaker 1: hands on it this morning, and it says that upon

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Speaker 1: consideration of the data, the task Force does not recommend

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Speaker 1: any amendments be made to the bail or the Criminal Code,

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Speaker 1: as the majority of bail episodes for adults and hudes

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Speaker 1: charged with weapons offenses did not end in another violence offense,

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Speaker 1: and where they did, the majority of those cases triggered

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Speaker 1: a presumption against bail. Anyway, the overall conclusion of the

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Speaker 1: task force was that expanding the scope of presumptions against

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Speaker 1: bail is an ineffective way of dealing with the remaining

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Speaker 1: small risk. Leah, does this show that the colp have

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Speaker 1: got it wrong when it comes to wanting changes against bail?

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Speaker 3: Well, this secret bar review which Labour have done behind

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Speaker 3: closed doors is certainly not open to the public and

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Speaker 3: to hear those words coming from the report, Katie, is

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Speaker 3: extremely disappointing. I think territory and listening to your show

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Speaker 3: will just feel that once again Labor are not listening

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Speaker 3: to the community. Our laws do not meet community expectation.

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Speaker 3: And what we have got again for the millions time

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Speaker 3: is our labor government more focused on the rights of

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Speaker 3: the offender, more focused on the rights of criminals than

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Speaker 3: they are on our right to be safe in our homes,

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Speaker 3: on our streets and in our businesses.

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Speaker 1: Lea, let me take you through the conclusion the factors

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Speaker 1: that they've listed here as to why there are going

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Speaker 1: to be no changes. One of those is the types

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Speaker 1: of offenses to which presumption against bail applies are some

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Speaker 1: of the widest and most comprehensive in Australia, a jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: or comparison. They've attached that in the report, our ninety

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Speaker 1: one percent of bail episodes for adults and youths charged

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Speaker 1: with a serious violence offense did not end in another

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Speaker 1: violence offense being committed while on bail reoffending. Of those

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Speaker 1: nine percent who do reoffend while on bail, forty percent

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Speaker 1: trigger an existing presumption against bail. They also say that

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Speaker 1: eighty nine percent of bail episodes for adult and youths

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Speaker 1: charged with the weapons offense did not end in a

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Speaker 1: new violent offense being committed. Sixty percent of those eleven

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Speaker 1: percent who do not reoffend trigger an existing presumption against bail.

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Speaker 3: Katie, it all sounds like it sounds like a government

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Speaker 3: that is absolutely held bent on destroying the territory and

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Speaker 3: letting criminals destroy our lives and our lifestyles. Because I

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Speaker 3: can tell you there is not a single person I

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Speaker 3: ever speak to who thinks that more criminals should be

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Speaker 3: bailed more often to think that a machete does not

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Speaker 3: cut the mustard. But Natasha files and her government as

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Speaker 3: a weapon worthy of someone not getting bail just shows

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Speaker 3: how totally chronically out of touch they are. I don't

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Speaker 3: stand for any of the principles that labors stand for,

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Speaker 3: and neither do my team, Katie, because we will always

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Speaker 3: protect our community and put their right to be safe

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Speaker 3: above the rights of well.

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Speaker 1: I just want to turn it around for a sec

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Speaker 1: because they're saying ninety one percent of bail episodes for

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Speaker 1: adults and youths charged with the serious violence offense did

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Speaker 1: not end up in another violent defense being committed wile

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Speaker 1: on bail reoffending, and of those nine percent who do

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Speaker 1: reoffend will on bail, forty percent trigger and existing presumption

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Speaker 1: against bail.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is here, there are still people slipping

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Speaker 2: through those.

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Speaker 3: Gaps without question, without question, and let's not forget this

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Speaker 3: is a government more interested in managing the media than

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Speaker 3: managing the territory. And so there is very tricky wording

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Speaker 3: involved in that. To say that ninety one percent don't

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Speaker 3: end up in another serious violent offense does not say

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Speaker 3: that they didn't end up breaking into people's houses stealing

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Speaker 3: people's cars. I mean, this is a joke beyond proportions.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad we've got Parliament this week, Katie, because territories

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Speaker 3: really need to mobilize and express very clearly to every

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Speaker 3: single member of that Labor government and the Chief Minister

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Speaker 3: that they have totally failed in their duty to keep

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Speaker 3: us safe. This secret Bower Review has been something the

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Speaker 3: community has been promised for months and months and months,

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Speaker 3: and now we all get to learn, of course, probably

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Speaker 3: what most of us knew, and that that is that

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Speaker 3: this government is going to do nothing different. It is

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Speaker 3: going to continue to allow these high levels of offending

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Speaker 3: in our community, and they have no commitment to a

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Speaker 3: safer future for the Terrans.

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Speaker 1: Well, look some of what they are going to change,

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Speaker 1: they've said. While no amendments proposed to the Bail Act,

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Speaker 1: the Task Force did recommend minor amendments to the Weapons

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Speaker 1: Control Act to clarify that a knife include a machete

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Speaker 1: for the purposes of being a control weapon. This is

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Speaker 1: going to allow machetes to be captured in the definition

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Speaker 1: of knife as a control weapon, including for the purpose

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Speaker 1: of BAIL.

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Speaker 2: I would have thought it already was.

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Speaker 3: Now it's weak. This is weak. We the words from

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Speaker 3: a government again more interested in managing the media than

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Speaker 3: doing their job. What they do not need to make

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Speaker 3: an amendment to include machetes. This shows you just how

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Speaker 3: much they don't want to protect people. They should be

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Speaker 3: making that legislation include any opportunistic weapon, any weapon at all.

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Speaker 3: So what government are telling you Territory is listening right

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Speaker 3: now is that if you pick up a Bundy bottle

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Speaker 3: and smash it and use that as a knife as

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Speaker 3: a weapon, as an edged weapon, that does not count.

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Speaker 3: They are picking and choosing what is a weapon and

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Speaker 3: what is in And I can tell you if a

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Speaker 3: territory in is faced with someone threatening them with a

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Speaker 3: knife or threatening them with a smashed up Bundy bottle,

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Speaker 3: people are going to feel exactly the same threat to life.

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Speaker 3: And so this government gain is failing in their duties,

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Speaker 3: failing in the community's expectation. I'm just horrified, Katie, that

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Speaker 3: we continue to have to suffer under a government that

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Speaker 3: again is more interested in managing optics than they are

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Speaker 3: doing their job.

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Speaker 1: Lia just to play Devil's advocate here, I mean the

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Speaker 1: recommendations considered the data to conclude that amending that Bail

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Speaker 1: Act will not increase community safety. It says that as

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Speaker 1: it does not operate as a preventative mechanism to reduce

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Speaker 1: weapons offending. Rather, the task Force considers that the following

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Speaker 1: measures will be preemptively targeting potential offenders before an offense occurs.

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Speaker 2: So what they're looking at doing.

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Speaker 1: Is developing that targeted knife strategy for the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: to address knife crime. It's supported by the geographical variations

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Speaker 1: in weapon offending across the territory, they say. They also

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Speaker 1: say that they're going to be strengthening and extending bail

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Speaker 1: support programs and bail supported accommodation, speedier resolution of matters

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Speaker 1: through the court, and greater education of the judiciary and

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Speaker 1: prosecutors about the risk of reoffending by certain groups of defendants.

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Speaker 1: And us a law similar to Queensland's Police Powers and

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Speaker 1: Responsibility Jack's Law as it's known Amendment Act twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: three to help detect weapons before they're used in offending,

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Speaker 1: and better powers to seize and confiscate weapons when found. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: I know that you are hearing about this for the

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Speaker 1: first time, as are all of our listeners. I'm reading

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Speaker 1: it out loud for the first time. But do those

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Speaker 1: other recommendations and changes that they're talking about here, do

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Speaker 1: they go some way in trying to sort the issue

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Speaker 1: that we've gotten the territory out.

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Speaker 3: No, they do not, Katie, And again this is just

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Speaker 3: a giant disappointment. It's a government totally asleep at the wheels.

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Speaker 3: We need to be making sure that people who do

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Speaker 3: the wrong thing face consequences and face the full force

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Speaker 3: of the law. What this government is trying to do

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Speaker 3: is because its prisons are full, because it has no

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Speaker 3: plan for lowering crime in our community. It has realized

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Speaker 3: that if they make changes to bail, it means they

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Speaker 3: would need more beds in prison, which they don't have.

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Speaker 3: This is a very cynical attempt at managing the media

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Speaker 3: and the optics. Katie. How many people, how many more

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Speaker 3: people I should say, have to be stabbed and killed

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Speaker 3: before Natasha Files and her government are going to walk

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Speaker 3: into Parliament and have the guts to do what is required,

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Speaker 3: and that is to strengthen the law so that everyday

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Speaker 3: Territorians can put their kids on a bus safely to

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Speaker 3: go to school and go to the shops, so that

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Speaker 3: people don't have to think about what time they go

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Speaker 3: to the shops and where they pass their car, or

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Speaker 3: whether they bring their kids, whether they're going to have

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Speaker 3: an intruder in their bedroom that night, whether the kids

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Speaker 3: are going to be safe. People cannot continue to live

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Speaker 3: under this constant threat and fear, and I will never

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Speaker 3: stop fighting for stronger, safer laws that mean that Territorians

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Speaker 3: can live their life freely and that criminals are dealt

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Speaker 3: with prosisely.

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Speaker 1: From your perspective, I mean with this review and with

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Speaker 1: this this task force review, if you were given this

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Speaker 1: same review and you were the Chief Minister, would you

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Speaker 1: act upon what they've said or would you do differently

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Speaker 1: even though the evidence is saying that that's what needs

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, who was on this review, Katie? Who did this review?

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Speaker 2: I don't know? You tell me do.

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Speaker 3: You have any idea met either? And I can tell

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Speaker 3: you right now as Chief Minister, I do not need

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Speaker 3: a review to tell me that I should always put

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Speaker 3: the rights of people to be safe above the rights

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Speaker 3: of criminals. And I don't need a review to tell

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Speaker 3: me that if you're a serious violent offender, you should

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Speaker 3: start with a position of no about the Natasha Varles

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Speaker 3: can go to sleep with all her reviews that she's got.

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Speaker 3: There's nice Prime reviews and alcohol reviews and Bower reviews.

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Speaker 3: Whatever she thinks is going to make her sleep safely

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Speaker 3: at night. Fine, But ultimately the rest of us continue

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Speaker 3: to wait for this government to do its job. Lea.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that the Northern Territory government have announced

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Speaker 1: this morning is that the legislation to raise the age

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Speaker 1: of Criminal Responsibility it's going to come into effect from.

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Speaker 2: The first of August.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe that they've got the programs in place

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Speaker 1: to support this happening.

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Speaker 3: No, and this is another disaster again the government trying

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Speaker 3: to make less people responsible for their crimes instead of

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Speaker 3: making less crime in our community. We've seen some very

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Speaker 3: scary instances of crime in that age bracket recently, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at a press release from the twenty seventh

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Speaker 3: of June where a twelve year old was charged with

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Speaker 3: aggravator burglary, damage to property. We've got another one on

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Speaker 3: the twenty first of July, two twelve year olds damage

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Speaker 3: to property, aggravated assault, threat to kill. I mean, these

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Speaker 3: are serious crimes that this government doesn't want young people

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Speaker 3: held responsible for. And I have no confidence in them

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Speaker 3: to have the right intervention programs required to make sure

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Speaker 3: kids aren't entering the justice system, because if they had

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Speaker 3: the answers, Katie, after seven long years, they would have

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Speaker 3: already done it. This government is out of ideas, they're

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Speaker 3: out of touch and they are just not listening.

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Speaker 2: Well, Leah.

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Speaker 1: One thing that is being questioned this morning is whether

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Speaker 1: the COLP is divided. Now we know that there was

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Speaker 1: certainly a report over the weekend where the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: News reported that there was a fight basically between Josh

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Speaker 1: Burgoyne and Steve Edgington Brakling MLA, of course is Josh

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Speaker 1: Burgoyne and Steve Edgington is the Barkley member that they

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Speaker 1: are involved in a heat and verbal exchange at the

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Speaker 1: Catherine Show on Friday morning.

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Speaker 2: Leah, what was it about?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Look, Katie, I don't know. I read the newsaper

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Speaker 3: article just like many Territorians did. It's clearly disappointing. But

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, Katie, this is a

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Speaker 3: disagreement between two adults and it's you know, it is

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Speaker 3: what it is. We're just continuing to focus on making

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Speaker 3: sure this week in Parliament we have focused on the

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Speaker 3: issues that territory as as well.

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Speaker 1: Are you So if they're fighting with each other, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's a pretty embarrassing situation for them to be

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Speaker 1: publicly fight with one another.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's disappointing, Katie, but you know, it was a

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Speaker 3: private disagreement between two.

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Speaker 2: Very private though. When it's in.

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Speaker 3: Public, well, and that lesson when we learned. I'm sure Katie,

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Speaker 3: it is what it is. It's disappointing.

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Speaker 2: But have you spoken to either of those men about it?

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Speaker 3: No? I haven't, Katie, because again, this is a private

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Speaker 3: conversation between two people, and we are so focused on

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Speaker 3: the job ahead of us.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I guess I know what you're going

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Speaker 1: to say, and I know that you're certainly going to

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Speaker 1: try and bat it off. But I guess the problem

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Speaker 1: here is is that you know, you're just over twelve

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Speaker 1: months out from an election.

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Speaker 2: You guys are the opposition.

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Speaker 1: You are meant to be presenting yourselves as the alternative government,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't look good then to have two of

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Speaker 1: your pivotal team members fighting publicly. From what we can

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Speaker 1: gather about the voice.

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Speaker 3: Look, as I said, Katie, it is disappointing that that happened,

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Speaker 3: but it's happened. We can't, you know, pretend that it

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Speaker 3: didn't and ultimately we move forward. You know, it's really

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Speaker 3: critical we're focused on the job ahead of us. We're

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Speaker 3: a strong, united, passionate team. I mean, when you pull

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Speaker 3: seven passionate people together, you know you have robust conversation.

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Speaker 1: But Leah, people are going to be laughing as you're

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Speaker 1: saying that you're a united team while they're fighting, and

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Speaker 1: one of them's reportedly stormed off.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think one disagreement is allowed, Honestly, Katie, this

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Speaker 3: is so small fry compared to the major issues. I

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Speaker 3: can tell you not sickle.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I do agree, But the problem here is

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Speaker 1: I agree it is small fry compared to the issues

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Speaker 1: of crime and now finding out that the bail amendments

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Speaker 1: that they're very, very limited, to say the least. And

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Speaker 1: you know that the government's got the raising the age

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Speaker 1: of criminal responsibility. It's forging ahead in August, and I

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Speaker 1: know that those things are not in line with the

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Speaker 1: community's expectations. But Lea, what I'm trying to say is

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Speaker 1: that we're twelve months out from an election and people

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Speaker 1: want to know whether the alternative government actually has what

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Speaker 1: it takes to stick together. And you know, we're your

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Speaker 1: teams sort of going to stay together and stay confident

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Speaker 1: in you.

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Speaker 3: I can assure territories, this is a disagreement between two

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Speaker 3: grown men. I'm going to leave it at that, And ultimately,

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Speaker 3: we are a very strong team of committed, passionate Territorians

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Speaker 3: who wake up every day to use every breath in

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Speaker 3: our body to fight for a safe territory, a strong economy,

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Speaker 3: lower cost of living, and nothing will stop us from

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Speaker 3: prosecuting that case and making sure that people see how

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Speaker 3: much Labor has dragged the territory.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty ill disciplined though. I mean, you're heading into

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Speaker 1: a week of parliamentary sittings. It gives the Labour Party

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Speaker 1: now the opposition, to have that ammunition to throw at you.

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Speaker 3: It is disappointing, Katie. You know I've said that a

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Speaker 3: number of times. There's no doubt about it. It's a distraction.

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Speaker 3: But we are not going to keep, you know, talking

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Speaker 3: about it. We've got to move on. We are all

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Speaker 3: grown ups and we've got a very very critical and

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Speaker 3: important job to do. Territorians expect us to do that.

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Speaker 3: We will do that, and we will continue to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we are always putting territorians first and making

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Speaker 3: sure their issues are being heard loud and clear in

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Speaker 3: the Parliament by this government who has all but packed

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Speaker 3: up and gone home.

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Speaker 1: Well, Lea, I'll tell you what, there's so much there

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Speaker 1: has been so much to discuss already this morning. No

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Speaker 1: doubt there's going to be throughout the week as well.

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Speaker 1: I reckon we'll probably catch up with you again through

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Speaker 1: the week. I appreciate your time this morning and very

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Speaker 1: keen to find out some further detail about this bail report,

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Speaker 1: so as we get it, we'll make sure that we

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Speaker 1: deliver it to our listeners. But yeah, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be an interesting week in Parliament to say the least.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it sounds like for all the wrong reasons, Katie,

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Speaker 3: but we'll be there side by side with the community

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Speaker 3: taking the fight to labor.

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Speaker 2: Lea Finocchio, thank you for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Take care everyone,