WEBVTT - Is the 'Closing the Gap' initiative actually working?

0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the daily This is the Daily

0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:15.880
<v Speaker 1>ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome

0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.040
<v Speaker 1>to the Daily Ods. It is Thursday, the fifteenth of February.

0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm Billy, I'm Lucy, Lucy. Before we move on, I

0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.639
<v Speaker 1>feel like anytime I tell anyone about your job at

0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the Daily Odds, they are so intrigued. Can you just

0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:29.240
<v Speaker 1>tell us what you do here?

0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I'm the fact checker.

0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.600
<v Speaker 1>I check the facts. That's what I do all day.

0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.080
<v Speaker 1>And what does that involve? How do you check the facts?

0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Mostly? I bother the journalists. I ask them questions that

0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.559
<v Speaker 2>they would think would be obvious.

0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.760
<v Speaker 1>You're a big advocate for the primary sources.

0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I'm always calling people and looking up PDFs and

0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.760
<v Speaker 2>figuring out what the truth is. A full time fact checker,

0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a rarity at a news organization, especially

0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.480
<v Speaker 2>one of our size. Yes, definitely one of our size.

0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.200
<v Speaker 1>Now now, on today's episode, we have heard two updates

0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.080
<v Speaker 1>on the Closing the Gap scheme this month, first that

0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.480
<v Speaker 1>governments are at serious risk of not meeting their goals,

0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and then from the federal government this week we learned

0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.920
<v Speaker 1>that progress is not just stalling, but actually going backwards

0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.399
<v Speaker 1>in some areas. Lucy, you're here to explain the failures

0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.399
<v Speaker 1>and successes of the closing the gap scheme. But first,

0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:23.640
<v Speaker 1>what's making headlines?

0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.399
<v Speaker 2>More than two million calls to cent a link when

0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.360
<v Speaker 2>unanswered over a six month period last year. Services Australia

0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.080
<v Speaker 2>data for July to December shows seven million callers received

0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.920
<v Speaker 2>congestion messages and had to wait an average of more

0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.160
<v Speaker 2>than thirty minutes to speak to a staff member. Federal

0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.039
<v Speaker 2>senators analyze the data from Services Australia during hearings this week,

0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.960
<v Speaker 2>finding nearly a third of callers hung up after long

0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:50.680
<v Speaker 2>wait times.

0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.160
<v Speaker 1>The Competition Watchdog has won a case against car manufacturer

0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Mazda after it received reports of recurring issues with new

0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.200
<v Speaker 1>car peres. The Federal court ordered Mazda to pay eleven

0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.760
<v Speaker 1>point five million dollars in a fine, as well as

0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:09.680
<v Speaker 1>eighty two thousand dollars to some customers in compensation. Their

0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.680
<v Speaker 1>AGREBRAC accused Mazda of deceptive conduct after it denied dozens

0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.160
<v Speaker 1>of customers refunds or replacements on vehicle faults, which they're

0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.440
<v Speaker 1>entitled to under the Australian consumer law.

0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Two opposing parties in Pakistan have made a deal to

0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.200
<v Speaker 2>share power after an election last week resulted in a

0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.160
<v Speaker 2>hung parliament, meaning neither party won enough seats to form government.

0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Independent candidates backed by former Prime Minister Imran Khan, who's

0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.880
<v Speaker 2>currently in jail, won the most seats but can't form

0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.880
<v Speaker 2>government on their own. Another former prime minister, Noa's Sharif

0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.800
<v Speaker 2>has agreed to lead a coalition with former Foreign Affairs

0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:51.519
<v Speaker 2>Minister Bilawal Bhutu Zadari. Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League is politically conservative,

0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.760
<v Speaker 2>while Zadari's People's Party is described as center left. Despite

0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.600
<v Speaker 2>their differences, the parties have enough seats to form government

0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and have announced their work to gather.

0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.840
<v Speaker 1>And Today's good news. Breakthrough satellite mapping technology has helped

0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.240
<v Speaker 1>researchers from the University of Queensland find unknown coral reefs.

0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.760
<v Speaker 1>The newly mapped three hundred and fifty thousand square kilometers

0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of reefs means there are more coral ecosystems in the

0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.560
<v Speaker 1>world's oceans than scientists previously thought. The Global Reef Mapping Project,

0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.160
<v Speaker 1>which is focused on conservation efforts, also found new areas

0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.400
<v Speaker 1>of coral reefs up to thirty meters deep.

0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Billy. It was the sixteenth anniversary of the National Apology

0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.760
<v Speaker 2>to Indigenous People this week. I have a very clear

0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.920
<v Speaker 2>memory of that day in two thousand and eight when

0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.520
<v Speaker 2>my teacher rolled the TV into our year six classroom

0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.680
<v Speaker 2>so that we could watch the speech. And that same

0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.840
<v Speaker 2>year the first iteration of the Closing the Gap targets

0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.200
<v Speaker 2>were set, and we've heard some very interesting updates about

0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:55.480
<v Speaker 2>those targets this month.

0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Before we look at what the updates have been, can

0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.520
<v Speaker 1>you first just explain to ours what are the Closing

0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:02.560
<v Speaker 1>the Gap targets.

0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, they're an acknowledgment that there's a significant difference in

0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the overall quality of life of First Nations people and

0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:14.880
<v Speaker 2>not Indigenous Australians. So life expectancy, representation in the prison system,

0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.760
<v Speaker 2>health school completion in all of these areas and more

0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.400
<v Speaker 2>statistics tell us that broadly First Nations people are worse

0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.680
<v Speaker 2>off than other people in this country. These targets were

0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.919
<v Speaker 2>first set in two thousand and eight, as I said,

0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and they were renewed in twenty twenty. More importantly, probably

0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.400
<v Speaker 2>the targets are commitments made by all levels of government,

0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.800
<v Speaker 2>federal all the way down to local to improve First

0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Nations people's lives. Many of these targets actually have deadlines,

0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.880
<v Speaker 2>so governments need to show that they've met these goals

0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.479
<v Speaker 2>by twenty twenty five or twenty thirty one, depending on

0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.719
<v Speaker 2>the target. We've learned quite a bit about how governments

0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.280
<v Speaker 2>are progressing towards those targets this month.

0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.240
<v Speaker 1>And so what exactly have we learned? How are they progressing?

0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.640
<v Speaker 2>They're not progressing well, is the thing. So earlier this

0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.560
<v Speaker 2>month we heard from the Productivity Commission. So that's a

0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.120
<v Speaker 2>federal government body that gives independent advice and can evaluate

0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.839
<v Speaker 2>how different government services are performing. I feel like we

0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.800
<v Speaker 2>hear about the Productivity Commission all the time, all the time.

0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.719
<v Speaker 2>They've got their fingers in a lot of different pies.

0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.680
<v Speaker 2>So they shared what's been achieved since those targets were

0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.919
<v Speaker 2>renewed in twenty twenty, and their report was pretty scathing.

0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.680
<v Speaker 2>It called current Efforts week and said that although there

0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:32.400
<v Speaker 2>were some pockets of good practice, measures have been slow, uncoordinated,

0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.920
<v Speaker 2>and piecemeal, so all over the place.

0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.479
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, that's pretty scathing. Did it call out

0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.000
<v Speaker 1>any specific failures.

0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.120
<v Speaker 2>One of the more damning comments I think was that

0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.920
<v Speaker 2>lawmakers have quote failed to fully grasp what they'll actually

0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.760
<v Speaker 2>need to do to live up to those commitments they made.

0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.920
<v Speaker 2>So that's one specific The Productivity Commission doesn't think those governments,

0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.080
<v Speaker 2>So that's all levels of government are showing they understand

0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.680
<v Speaker 2>what they've actually agreeed to. And another big point that

0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.000
<v Speaker 2>was called out was that governments haven't actually consulted enough

0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.559
<v Speaker 2>with First Nations communities to design measures together to close

0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the gap. It's said that First Nations community organizations actually

0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.359
<v Speaker 2>deliver better outcomes than governments in many areas, and that

0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.559
<v Speaker 2>part of the report really reminded me of this saying,

0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.560
<v Speaker 2>which I think comes from disability activism. Nothing about us

0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.800
<v Speaker 2>without us. Basically, people need to be involved in policies

0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:27.800
<v Speaker 2>that will affect them.

0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.960
<v Speaker 1>And did the Productivity Commission have any recommendations about what

0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the government can do to fix that?

0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.320
<v Speaker 2>So the report recommended our fundamental rethink of systems used

0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.520
<v Speaker 2>to address disadvantage and it's said agreeing to those targets

0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.640
<v Speaker 2>requires government decision makers to accept that they do not

0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.800
<v Speaker 2>know what is best for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.360
<v Speaker 2>It said that without large scale changes, governments risked quote

0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.560
<v Speaker 2>another broken promise to First Nations people, and it said,

0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.760
<v Speaker 2>the agment can and should be a blueprint for real

0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 2>WALK reform, but governments need to move beyond business as

0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.880
<v Speaker 2>usual and address entrenched attitudes, assumptions, and ways of working

0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.280
<v Speaker 2>that stop progress. So all of that came out last

0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.280
<v Speaker 2>week and really foreshadowed what happened this week when we

0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.400
<v Speaker 2>got a federal update on how the targets are progressing.

0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:21.720
<v Speaker 1>So we know that broadly the targets are not progressing

0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.960
<v Speaker 1>well before we look at what the update this week was,

0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.400
<v Speaker 1>can you first just explain what actually are the targets

0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.480
<v Speaker 1>that we're looking at here, how many of them are there?

0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.080
<v Speaker 1>So they cover all areas of quality of life. They

0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.640
<v Speaker 1>include things like increasing the number of people speaking Aboriginal

0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.680
<v Speaker 1>and Torres Strait Islanders languages, making sure small children are

0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.400
<v Speaker 1>thriving before school and when they go into school, reducing

0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the number of kids and out of home care, ensuring

0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.320
<v Speaker 1>people aren't living in poor quality overcrowded houses, and even

0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.240
<v Speaker 1>increasing native title rights to land and sea country. And

0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.600
<v Speaker 1>then in terms of numbers, there's these four Priority reforms

0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:04.400
<v Speaker 1>which cover more of the enacting programs, and then there

0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.840
<v Speaker 1>are seventeen targets and a couple of subtargets, so kind

0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.880
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen broad targets and so we're flagged that there

0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.560
<v Speaker 1>was another update this week. What was that?

0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.680
<v Speaker 2>So PM Anthony Albanizi made a speech in Parliament this

0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.160
<v Speaker 2>week kind of touching on what that update was.

0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.600
<v Speaker 3>Sixteen years after the apology, only eleven out of nineteen

0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:32.080
<v Speaker 3>socioeconomic outcomes for average on Tyres Strait Islander people's are improving.

0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.880
<v Speaker 3>Just four are on track to meet their targets. What

0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.000
<v Speaker 3>should give us pause is that outcomes have worsened for

0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:43.800
<v Speaker 3>four critical targets.

0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.200
<v Speaker 2>And that worsening that he mentioned, that's got the government

0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:47.959
<v Speaker 2>very worried.

0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.800
<v Speaker 1>We just heard him mention four targets that are getting worse.

0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:52.640
<v Speaker 1>What are those?

0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.559
<v Speaker 2>So they're critical targets as he said, So those targets

0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.640
<v Speaker 2>are one first nation's children hitting developmental mind in their

0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.120
<v Speaker 2>first year of school, to making sure adults aren't overrepresented

0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:09.440
<v Speaker 2>in the justice system, three keeping kids out of home

0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.200
<v Speaker 2>care and for reducing the suicide rate. So the stats

0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.720
<v Speaker 2>show us that all of these things are getting worse,

0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.360
<v Speaker 2>not better. The government said it's determined to fix this.

0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.160
<v Speaker 2>But considering what we've just heard about the Productivity Commission's report,

0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.360
<v Speaker 2>it does sound like a lot of work needs to

0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:26.880
<v Speaker 2>be done.

0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Are there any targets that are on track?

0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're silver linings. So some of those targets that

0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.880
<v Speaker 2>are on track are actually related to those that are

0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.000
<v Speaker 2>getting worse, so we could possibly see better outcomes in

0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.400
<v Speaker 2>the future. So like, for example, the target for the

0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.479
<v Speaker 2>majority of First Nations children to be in culturally appropriate

0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.840
<v Speaker 2>early childhood education is on track to be met, so

0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.800
<v Speaker 2>we could see better outcomes in terms of that target

0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of kids meeting markers in their first year of school.

0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, if preschool attendance is getting better, then KINDI

0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:58.600
<v Speaker 2>is probably going to.

0:09:58.600 --> 0:09:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Start to look better.

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.800
<v Speaker 2>And there's also been improvement in the overrepresentation of children

0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.080
<v Speaker 2>in the criminal justice system. First Nations children are still

0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.920
<v Speaker 2>very much overrepresented, but those numbers are getting lower, and

0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.080
<v Speaker 2>that relates to the overrepresentation of adults in the system

0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.720
<v Speaker 2>because research shows us that incarceration as a child is

0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.400
<v Speaker 2>a key driver of incarceration as an adult, So fewer

0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:26.240
<v Speaker 2>kids being incarcerated could possibly lead to fewer adults being incarcerated.

0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.720
<v Speaker 2>We can see the whole trajectory of this possibly getting better.

0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.240
<v Speaker 2>And then the other targets that are on track are

0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.080
<v Speaker 2>increasing access to land and the employment rate for adults.

0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.880
<v Speaker 2>One thing to note, not all of this data is new,

0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.240
<v Speaker 2>so we'll probably hear more from the Productivity Commission and

0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.800
<v Speaker 2>from the government throughout the year as more of those

0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.839
<v Speaker 2>stats start to come through, more data gets updated, and

0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.360
<v Speaker 2>we'll keep you across all of that on TDA.

0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Lucy, Thank you so much for joining us. It is

0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:55.640
<v Speaker 1>always a treat when we get to pull you away

0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.760
<v Speaker 1>out of primary sources and deep into every document ever

0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.320
<v Speaker 1>to be on the mic. Thank you so much.

0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:03.800
<v Speaker 2>What would it be here?

0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.120
<v Speaker 1>And before you go, we are currently during a podcast

0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.880
<v Speaker 1>survey so that we can understand better what it is

0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.440
<v Speaker 1>that you like about this podcast and maybe some of

0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the things that you don't like or that you think

0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.760
<v Speaker 1>we could do better. So you can fill out that

0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.240
<v Speaker 1>survey in the show notes. See it is the first

0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.360
<v Speaker 1>thing you'll see there. Thank you so much for listening,

0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:22.600
<v Speaker 1>and we will be back tomorrow.

0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.840
<v Speaker 2>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Dunda

0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.120
<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.400
<v Speaker 2>first peoples of these countries, both past and present,