1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Cargottin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Thursday, 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: the twenty second of June. I'm sam i'm zara. Bills 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: to legalize cannabis were introduced to parliaments in New South Wales, 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: Victoria and Wa in a joints push this way. This 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: is the first time we've seen a coordinated approach to 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 2: legalize cannabis across the nation. We'll tell you what you 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: need to know in today's Deep Dive. But Firs Sarah. 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: What's making headlines this morning? 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 3: The New South Wales corruption watch dog i CAC will 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 3: hand down its report into former Premier Gladys Barogiclian next Thursday. 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 3: The investigation relates to a legend misconduct by Bereagiclian in 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: the provision of grand funding for the regional city of Wogga. 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: Wogger deaths and custody will be reported in real time 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: under a new dashboard launched on Wednesday. It will provide 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: demographic data on the deceased person, including age, sex and 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: if they were a First Nations person. The measure has 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: been introduced as a way to enhance accountability and transparency 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: for all Australian governments. 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: MasterCard has launched a global recycling project to stop its 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 3: cards from ending up in landfill. Banks will be given 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,919 Speaker 3: machines to shred the cards, which will then be transferred 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 3: to a plastic recycling facility. 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: And today's good news, Estonia has become the first Central 30 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: European country to allow same sex marriage. It came following 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: a vote in the National Parliament, with the laws to 32 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: come into effect next year. 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: Sam. I don't feel like it is very often that 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: we see sit here and talk about the two topics 35 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 3: of cannabis and parliament. This is one of those weeks though, 36 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 3: because we've seen some movement on the legislation front. 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. On Tuesday we saw members from the Legalized Cannabis 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: Party in three separate states, so New South Wales, Victoria 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: and Wa each present legislation in a coordinated push to 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: legalize cannabis. Now, this doesn't mean the laws are likely 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: to pass, but I do think it's worth talking about 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: today because it's interesting to understand some of the context 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: around it, as there is clearly this shift happening. 44 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 3: Okay, so tell me about these draft laws. What would 45 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: the changes actually be. 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: So, the proposed legislation would allow adults to hold and 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: grow small amounts of cannabis in their homes. Six plants 48 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: is the amount that's being put forward. People would be 49 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: able to share cannabis with others and it could be 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: grown on behalf of another person. It would be illegal 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: for people under eighteen, and driving under the influence of 52 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: cannabis would still be banned. 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 3: Okay, But just to be clear here, we're not talking 54 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: about medicinal cannabis, which is already legal in Australia. 55 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: Medicinal cannabis products have been legal in Australia since twenty sixteen, 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: but you need a prescription and they're currently being used 57 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: to treat things like epilepsy, chronic pain, as well as 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: end of life care. But when we're talking about the 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: new laws being tabled this week, we're talking about recreational cannabis, 60 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: and the laws vary on how they define how much 61 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: cannabis is recreational. It generally means enough for your personal use, 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: not any sort of commercial amounts. And it's generally still 63 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: a criminal offense in Australia to possess, sell or grow 64 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: cannabis of any amount for personal recreational use. That's, of course, 65 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: outside of the Act. The offense carries penalties ranging all 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: the way from fines to prison sentences. 67 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: Okay, so you use the caveat there of the Act, 68 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: what's the story there. 69 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, the Act decriminalized cannabis, which is not 70 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: totally the same as legalized. So, just to clarify here, 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: decriminalized refers generally to removing criminal penalties for an action. 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: It's often replaced with a fine and no criminal record. 73 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: So currently in the Act, adults can grow up to 74 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: two plants of cannabis or up to four per household 75 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: and use the cannabis in their homes. It's still illegal 76 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: to share or sell the cannabis with anyone else, and 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: if you're driving, it's illegal to have it in your system. 78 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: It's also an offense there to smoke or use cannabis 79 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: in public or expose a child to cannabis smoke. So 80 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: there's no fine for what we've just described in the Act, 81 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: but the message from the Act government is very clear 82 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: that it hasn't been legalized. 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: It does feel like the push in Australia, I mean, 84 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: be it by a very small minor party, does reflect 85 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 3: general trends that we're seeing not just in Australia but worldwide. 86 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 3: What are the arguments for legalizing recreational cannabis use. 87 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: Well, one of the key arguments that come up both 88 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: here in Australia by as you said, around the world 89 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: is this idea of devoting cannabis users from a criminal 90 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: justice system. And the research in Australia says that there's 91 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: been over seven hundred thousand cannabis related offenses in Australia 92 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: since twenty ten, and over ninety percent of these have 93 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: been for personal use or possession. So if we look 94 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: at WA a little closer, for example, cannabis arrests there 95 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: make up forty five percent of illicit drug related arrests. 96 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: So in WA's context, they're pointing to the potential saving 97 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: of public taxpayer money related to prosecution costs and law 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: enforcement times that can then be reallocated. They're also saying 99 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: that the war on drugs has disproportionately targeted and criminalized minorities. 100 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: Have a listened to Rachel Pain, who's the Victorian MP 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: for the Legalized Cannabis party. 102 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: Prohibition is hurting people young people. 103 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: It is people who are Indigenous, particularly Indigenous women, and 104 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 3: it is peach of people from culturally diverse backgrounds who 105 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: are targeted. 106 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: Now, another argument put forward is because there's never been 107 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: a legal supply of recreational cannabis in Australia, the entire 108 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: supply and demand for the drug exists on a black market, 109 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: and police estimate that that black market for cannabis is 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: worth about eight billion dollars in profits for organized crime 111 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: each year. Now, in a world where it would be 112 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: decriminalized or even made completely legal, this black market would 113 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: slow and eventually, like alcohol, for example, cease to exist, 114 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: and it would even then give the government the opportunity 115 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: to tax the sales of cannabis like they do with alcohol. 116 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: The other interesting thing about it being a black market 117 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: product is that supporters of legalizing cannabis say that some 118 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: young people who go looking for cannabis will inevitably make 119 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: contacts with supplies who supply other drugs. 120 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: Okay, that's obviously one side of the coin. These people 121 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: have been elected on a platform that is clearly advocating 122 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 3: for one side of this argument. But that's not a 123 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: view that is universally held by any means. There's a 124 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 3: reason hasn't been decriminalized yet to date except in the act. 125 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: What have the major parties in those states actually said 126 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 3: about the bill's likeliness to pass. 127 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: Well, ultimately they've said that it's not going to happen. 128 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: And if you look at the makeup of a parliament 129 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: in New South Wales, Victoria and Wa, you see that 130 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: legalized cannabis has no more than two members in each 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: of those parliaments. And what this means is that in 132 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: order for their legislation to pass, they'd need significant support 133 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: from the major parties. Now, so far, none of the 134 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: state governments have indicated that legalizing or decriminalizing cannabis is 135 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: a priority for their government, and they're highly unlikely to 136 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: support it. Victorian MP Daniel Andrews says he has no 137 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: plans to go down that path and told reporters in 138 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: Melbourne that his position is the law as it stands now. 139 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: In New South Wales, the new Labor government declines to 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: comment on the bill, but they have said the government 141 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: would host a drug and alcohol summit before the next election, 142 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: which is still a couple of years away, due in 143 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven. And over in Wa, the Deputy Premier 144 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: there Rita Safioti said that the New Court government is 145 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: not going to be supporting the bill. 146 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: I think this is one of those things that would 147 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: be really interesting to put to the audience. So maybe 148 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: we'll do a poll sometime soon to ask whether our 149 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: audience actually believes that cannabis should be decriminalized like it 150 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: is in the Act, because it's certainly something that comes 151 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: up a lot and is in the news a lot. 152 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: But yeah, remains to be seen. What will happen from here. 153 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS today. If 154 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: you learn something from today's episode, don't forget to subscribe 155 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: so there's a TV eight episode waiting for you every morning. 156 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have a great day.