WEBVTT - Nathan Lyon - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.520 Ordinarily Speaking, I've played ninety six Test matches. I made 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:21.919 my debut eighty one times Tason time. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:32.240 Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.920 resilience in sport. My name is Narrowly Meadows, and my 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.320 guest this episode is Australian Test bowler Nathan Lyon the Goat. 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:45.040 As he's affectionately called Australia's greatest offspinner of all time. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.400 The catch cry at nice Gary has become synonymous with 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.800 Ozzie cricket. That nickname Gary after Ozzie rules Great Gary Lyon. 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.920 Despite the cult figure status and the three hundred and 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.640 ninety wickets in ninety six Tests, the truth is Nathan 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.600 Lyon has played his career riddled with doubt. The kid 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.600 from country New South Wales is now a Test veteran 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.480 who has played through one of the most tumultuous periods 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.000 in Ossie cricket. Nathan isn't ordinarily one to show his 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.520 emotional side, but as he reflects, he says he's emerged 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:21.600 a better player and Dad, I hope you enjoy the chat. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:23.720 Again. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.319 Oh Nat, thanks for spending some time with me. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:30.480 Absolute pleasure. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.920 You say that with two big a grin on your face. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:39.000 I'm not sure what that means. You made your debout 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.960 way back in twenty eleven. Can you tell me how 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.920 that felt? As far as a testaboot? Can you tell 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.680 me how that felt at the time, because you were 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.240 coming after quite an era of Australian cricket. 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.040 Yeah, obviously a pretty long time ago now, I remember 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.720 it pretty clearly. Obviously, well pretty well burst on the 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.760 onto the scene, throughout the through the Big Bash, playing 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.400 for South Australia, then only four Shield Games to South Australia, 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.760 then into an Australian Ray Tour. Then suddenly I was 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.480 picked to go to to Sri Lanka on the Test 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:20.600 Tour and heading over there with with some photos of 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.720 these fellows on my wall as a kid, not the 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.800 Ponting's that Clark's had and the Johnson these guys, so 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.360 didn't really know anyone but Trent Copeland. So it was 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.680 pretty it's pretty nerve nerve wracking, I dare say, when 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.400 you get to Colombo, open up the left and out 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.880 walks Fricky Ponting, Brad Hadden and Michael Clark and you 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.840 got made on your new teammate type thing. So it 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.440 was pretty special. But then for myke Cussy to take 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:51.640 under his wing on that tour was unbelievable. But going 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.480 to my de bow and two days before the game 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.519 Greek Chapel, Michael Clarke called me into the change room 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.440 from training. All the way into the goal change rooms, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.040 didn't really know what to expect. They both sat me 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.120 down and they said that you're going to play. You're 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.280 going to make your test aboo. We're on the only 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.560 one spinner your it, so good luck and all that stuff. 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.800 And I was pretty taken back by that, and I 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.559 just remembered get my phone back at the hotel and 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.799 calling dad, and I would have been about lunchtime here 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.520 in Australia and called Dad and I said Dad, I'm 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.440 going to make my test aboo and Dad just goes, oh, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.440 that's good, least you'll play one game, then hung up 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.480 the phone. So I've since figured out that Dad didn't 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.120 really know what to say because you would get too emotional. 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.560 So yeah, they said I was a good start, and 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.240 Dad was just pretty happy I was going to play 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.720 one game and get a track suit. So so yeah, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.600 then the rest is history. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.840 I guess that tells me a little bit about your family, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.760 and i've met your brother Brendan, who's been such an 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.480 important part in your career. Tell me a bit about 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.960 growing up and what your family was like and how 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.320 they've influenced the way that you are. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.760 Obviously, Mum and dad's still out and young in the 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.360 country in your South Whiles where I grew up, so 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.479 they're pretty humble country people where they won't let my 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.040 feet leave the ground. Mum's always telling me to keep 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.080 my head down and keep my feet on the ground, 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.040 you know, one special type thing. So they're pretty humble 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.320 type people. But my childhood was with my older brother, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.960 it was soccer in the winter. Then there was just 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.360 cricket throughout the summer, and Mum and Dad were very 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:38.960 fortunate enough to have those two as my parents or 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:43.120 our parents, to drive us all around New South Whiles 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.920 playing cricket, playing sport, to go three hours one way 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.440 just for a game cricket, then turn around and do 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.560 that then for Mum and Dad to back up and 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.200 go to work the next day. It was pretty special 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:56.120 when you look back at it. 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.159 So you came from nowhere, as you said, you were 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.479 a groundsman a I know you get sick of talking 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.640 about this story. But you had an orthodox sort of 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.760 upbringing into cricket, So how did that affect your self belief? 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.880 Well, I always dreamt of playing cricket for Australia, even 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.240 when I was working at manic Rowl. Then when I 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.479 moved down to Adelaide over when I was rolling and 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.520 watching the South Australian Redbacks train, I always dreamt that 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.920 I was good enough to play that cricket, or kind 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:27.680 of hoped I was good enough to play that cricket. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.800 I didn't really get that belief that I could actually 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.080 achieve it until I did a net bowling session against 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.560 the Australian side and the English side in the twenty 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.760 ten Ashes. I think when I was at Adelaide on 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.200 the ground stuff, my workday was actually bowling to the 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.880 nets for about three and a half hours, which was unbelievable, 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.560 about two hours to the Australians an hour and to 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.320 the English guy. So that was pretty special. And I 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.880 didn't really have that belief that maybe I could do 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.320 it until bold to Ponting for about forty minutes and 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.280 to Mike cassiy on Mike Wall. These guys aren't whacked 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.320 me out of the ground here the net might be 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.240 able to achieve it if I put my head down 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.320 and you never know what's around the corner type things. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.039 So that was probably one moment in the back of 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.880 my head that stands out that that my belief was 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.520 there if I could achieve it. 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.040 So when you then make it to the top level, 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.120 did you feel did you fit in straight away? Or 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.600 how did you He just looked at me like you're 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:26.080 kidding me. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:31.080 A yeah, I definitely didn't feel like I fitted in. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.279 When you're looking around these guys and the careers that 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.360 these guys have had and what they've achieved, it's pretty 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.880 remarkable then to be suddenly their teammate in the same 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.760 change rooms, in the meetings trying to learn about the game. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.240 I think if you talk to good mate Mitchell Stark, 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.479 he thinks I've played ninety six Test matches now and 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.400 he reckons I've probably played made my debut about eighty 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.520 five times. So it took it took me a long 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:03.400 time to feel part of the side. I guess not 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.479 part of the side, but probably if I fit it 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.640 in in my role within the Australian Cricket change room, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.920 So it's probably it took me a little while because 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.880 coming out of the Australian cricket era before Shame Warn, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:22.720 then suddenly a spinner comes into the field, then you go, okay, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.760 well the whole public, why can't you do what Shame 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 Warn has been doing for the last eight to ten years. 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.040 So it took me a little while to get out 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.119 of his shaddle shadow, And to be honest, I'm probably 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.679 still in his shadow. Ninety six Test matches, three hundred 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.640 and ninety Test work wickets into it, Probably still in 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.720 his shadow a little bit, but that's just your mind. 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.240 You get in my mind and probably the part of 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.880 Australian public as well, and that's probably just down to 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:54.160 who Shame Warn is and what he achieved in the game. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.720 So that's one of those things where I had to 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.920 be confident in my own skill set at first class 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.440 level to Test match level to perform, and I think 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.320 Chuck Berry, Darren Berry, my first state coach, he had 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.560 a lot to do with that. He was able to 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.560 build that confidence in me to get my confidence in 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.840 my stock break stock off break to go out there 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.400 and perform under pressure. And I think he's got a 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.320 lot of credit to take for that. And I look 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.360 at my career right now, I think over the last 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.520 three to four years, I think my cricket's gone to 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.840 a couple of new levels. And I think that's because 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.520 I've got that self belief and stop trying to prove 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.440 to the whole world, and I just wanted to prove 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.400 to myself how good I could be. And I've still 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.880 still trying to strive to get better at each and 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.320 every day. I still feel like I've got a lot 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.320 of improvement. I still think there's a lot of depth 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.880 that I can get to, and I still believe that 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:55.360 I can get a lot better than what I am 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.480 right now. So I think from three years ago or 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.360 three to four years ago to now is totally different. Players. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:03.920 What changed for you? 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.920 I think the penny dropped for me that I don't 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.640 need to prove to everyone out in the world that 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.800 I deserve to be be here. I wanted to prove 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.640 to myself that I deserve to be here, and I 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.560 wanted to play at this level and I want to 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.559 be the best I can possibly be. So I think 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.400 the penny really dropped within myself to be honest and 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.520 understanding that my stock boy is the best in the world, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.319 and I believe it is in the best in the 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.400 world and that I can get anyone out no matter 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:33.880 what situation we're in. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.560 So what made it drop? Was there a moment? 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.120 I think there's a few different things. I think life 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.720 away from cricket improved. I think my family, my partner, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.679 m I think or they've all been absolutely incredible with 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.199 the support. Because one thing I do know, when you're 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.640 in a hotel room and you get dropped, when you're 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.880 in India or in England, you feel like the world's 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.439 closing closing down, and you wonder, well, my career has done, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.720 what can I do? How do I feel? And what's normal. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.239 It's pretty hard to sit here and say I understand 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.920 or you should feel like this, because everyone's different. I 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:14.760 felt like my career was done as soon as I 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.319 got dropped. But then I had a chat to Brad 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.280 Hadden and he said, well, you need to figure out 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.880 why you got dropped and asked those questions and you 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.800 can then you can hold the coach. As a captain, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.360 the selector's accountable. So since then I've been up to 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.400 ask the right questions to get the answers that I 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.800 need to make me go out and get better each 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.040 and every day. If that makes sense. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.480 It does make sense. It's it's interesting to me because 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.520 I've covered a lot of cricket and a lot of 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.679 cricket of you playing it, and you spoke about Mike 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.760 Hussey before. We would often chat about we couldn't understand 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.800 why you because there was so much chopping and changing 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.720 throughout the Test team and you were often pretty much 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.120 close to the only constant in that team. So what 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.880 was it in your mind that was was making you 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.840 believe the doubt instead of the positives. 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:09.080 Well, I hate the word comfortable. I never wanted to 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.280 feel like I was comfortable in the Australian Australian setup 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.600 because in my eyes, as soon as you feel comfortable, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.240 the quicker will get taken away from you. Then you're 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.240 back to the drawing board. So I wanted wanted it 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.280 so much. I wanted to play cricket. It's my dream 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.679 and it's still my goal to go out and play 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.800 as many Test matches as I can for Australia and 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.720 making sure that I'm playing my role to win games. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.559 So it's one of those one of those things where 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.440 I didn't want to get too far ahead of myself. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.880 I wanted to stay try and stay in the present 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.200 as well, without losing myself belief and not letting my 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.920 belief go too far. It's about, in my eyes, having 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.480 a balance between your ego being up here and your 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.120 fear of failing down here, and trying to have a 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.959 steady balance there. We're not getting too far, but not 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.000 being afraid to fail. I think a lot of people, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.080 a lot of professional players, may have a fear of 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.920 failing because they're not sure what the unknown is. But 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.920 if you can step out of that and I can't 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.320 realize you are going to fail every now and then, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.679 then but how can I learn? How can I get 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.160 better from that experience? So next time when I come 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.719 under pressure in that same scenario, I'll be better off 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.079 for it, and hopefully I'll come out in the right end. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.800 How did it feel in those real moments of doubt 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:27.240 for you? 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.280 I just felt like I was questioning myself a lot. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.920 And you go back to my hotel room and I 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.600 asked myself, Am I good enough? Am I good enough? 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.440 And then I was actually talking to I think it 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.120 was Michael or our sports psych about watching some unbelievable 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.959 moments that you've been a part of, or some unbelievable 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.520 balls that you bold and going Actually it sounds weird, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.160 but going back and sitting on YouTube and actually watching 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.520 yourself bold and getting that feeling back of howls. Do 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:01.440 you watch the India Test mate in. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.000 Adelaide Adelaide twenty fourteen. 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.480 Yeah, that one's a good one. But there's there's, there's 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.040 a couple. So thanks for all the people in YouTube. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:10.800 To compile them. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.040 Yeah, they do a good job for them. But so 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.160 it sounds weird to go back and watch that. But 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.280 even today or if I know I've got a big day, 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.400 whether that's Shield cricket, BBL or Test cricket, whatever it 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.520 may be, I'll tend to find myself sitting on my 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.440 bed watching some highlights to get that feeling. So I 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.880 know how to replicate that feeling. So I know it 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.880 drives from family nuts, and I know it drives my 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.360 Emma and my two girls half of a Miller absolutely nuts. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.920 I don't I don't want to watch you again, but 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.120 we have to get get through it when I've got 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.200 a game coming up. So it's a little bit weird. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.160 How often do you do this whenever required? It's a 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.120 bit weird, but it works. It works. I'm not going 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.120 to get away from it. I need a few more uploads. 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.800 It kills, you know, two beds with one stone. Get 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.840 the uploids up and get the confidence up exactly. So 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:12.120 when because we've spoken during Test matches before, how anxious 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:13.960 do you get when you play a Test match? 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.040 Yeah, I'm pretty I'm sure. I think I'm getting better, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.680 but I'm pretty anxious. And that's It's not because I'm 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.000 scared of failing or scared of getting hurt if I'm 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.480 going out the bat. It's because I care, because I 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.720 care about my mate's doing well. And I've always said 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.120 throughout my career I'd much rather see Mitchell Stark, Josh 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.240 Hazelwood pack comings these guys go out and take five 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.800 wickets rather than me personally go out and take five wickets, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.000 because if I can sit down and have a beer 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.480 with them at the end of the day and see 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.920 the joy in their face, and it means a world 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.120 to me. And knowing that I've also had a fortunate 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.840 role to play, whether that's bowling partnerships or even if 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.320 I'm batting with with the tail or, batting with Steve 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.280 Smith to bring his one hundred up at edge Baston. 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.840 But it's just because I care, So I'll get nervous 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.360 and anxious because I care because I want to see 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.200 my mates so well and I want to win games 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:06.120 of cricket for Australia. 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:07.320 Do you have problems sleeping? 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.800 Yeah? I've had edge Baston Test match when I felt 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:14.400 like the pressure was on me to win the game 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.240 of cricket for Australia and the first Test of the 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.960 Ashes and just gone and couldn't sleep. So I had 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.280 to google rain on a tin roof to take me 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.800 back to my country days. There's nothing better than rain 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.080 on a tin roof that will put me to sleep 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.000 within minutes. So I'm luck enough. I put that on 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.680 for about eight hours and got a good night's sleep 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.440 and went out and won the game. It was good. 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.760 Headingly, How bad was the anxiety for you in that 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.840 one before the final day when everything was on the line. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.120 It wasn't so bad during the game. There was more 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.840 the aftermath. I've never been in a change room like 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.320 that before, and with me missing a runout, I could 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.080 have gone from villain to hero within side three point 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.400 two seconds to bowl in hitting Stokes on the pad 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.520 and then the whole everything. It was just everything we 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:09.640 burnt the review and over before we dropped catches. We just, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.600 I know, it was a weird feeling through that whole 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:17.440 day where you're so close but you were a few 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.840 of us started getting a bit anxious and a bit nervous, 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:24.080 and because we felt like the ashes were we're in 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.120 our reach, if that makes sense, We understood stood the 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.120 how big a game it was. Then down to that 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.920 last couple of overs and Ben Stokes was play having 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.480 one of those days where everything seemed to hit was 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.200 either going for boundary six or it was leaning in 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.520 the gap. Was just unbelievable, and the crowd at Heavenly 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.000 was pretty pretty incredible. But then to miss a runout. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.280 So tell me in that moment how that feels. 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:56.040 I was, I was guarded. I felt like I dropped 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:01.680 the ashes. I was guarded, and then but I knew 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.040 I had to pick myself up within a couple of 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.560 seconds to come and bowl again, because there's still that 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.600 old chance that I could take a wicket, and I 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.960 had that belief that I could could take a wicket, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.119 but it was just one of those things and I 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.439 look back at it now and after being up to 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.400 retain the ashes, which has been one of my biggest goals, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.600 It's it's pretty pretty special. But I look back at 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.119 that and I can sit here and happily say that 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.160 I've been part of the best Test match to ever 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.199 be played, even though you lost out, even though I 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.520 lost it. It goes back to having that fear of failing. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.240 I'm not scared. You've got to be prepared to lose 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.120 a game to win it, especially at Test match cricket. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.040 I know I'm a better person and I know it'll 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.760 be a better cricketer from that day. Heavenly a lot 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.440 worse things in the world than happening than me just 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.080 dropping a cricket ball and missing a run out. At 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:56.440 the end of the day, it's a game of cricket. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.280 At least I've got something to talk about the rest 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.200 of my career. Everyone wants to talk with it everywhere 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.560 or go, so it's pretty it's pretty amazing. Made one 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.320 mistake and I think I'm going to be remembered for 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:07.320 that one mistake. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.960 Well, the thing for me watching it is I feel 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.320 like what isn't focused on enough is that the very 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.080 next ball you dismiss him. It's only because the reviews 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.520 have been butchered that he's not out. That's it, because 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.800 if you review it, or even if the umpire gives 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:29.119 it at the time, he's out. So the fact that 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.240 you have this little mess up and then the very 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.679 next ball managed to deliver a wicket under pressure, how 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.840 much did that actually? I know it must have just 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.359 been frustrating at the time because it wasn't given. But 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.560 how much does that actually help you? And how proud 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.040 are you of going you know that I didn't let 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.320 that get to me and the next ball I delivered. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:54.119 Well, yeah, I am proud have been able to step 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.720 back up and in my terms, suck it up and 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.760 get on with the top thing. So, as I said, 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.719 I had that belief that I can get Stokes. Ut 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.960 I've had many battles throughout my career with Stokes. He's 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.560 an exceptional player. But I knew that if I by 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.480 my best ball, I can challenge his defense and hopefully 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.439 make an error. And there was an error may but 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.879 it just wasn't wasn't from me, And unfortunately that happens 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.400 in cricket, and mister Wilson made the right the wrong decision. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.680 Whatever has happened happened. So it's one of those things 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.320 where if you can learn from the mistakes and get 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.199 better and suck it up and get on with it, 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:28.760 then we'll be right. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:30.960 Do you chat to the umpire after something like that 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:32.399 after the match is done and dusted. 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.680 I haven't seen mister Wilson for a while. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.000 Now, would you say something? 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.800 Yeah, I'll have it. I always talked through to the 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.880 umpires throughout my whole career and the drs. And isn't 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:48.080 there for umpires decision. It's there for absolute hours of 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.840 decisions and unfortunately we burn it so it's really down 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:53.760 to Paine. 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:56.320 Anything to paint. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.080 He nah, it's one of those things. We're trying to 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.360 get better with the reviews as well. But we went 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.760 on to retain the ashes and that's always been one 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.840 of my goals to stand up at the oval and 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:08.879 lift up the earn in front of the English crowd. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.760 What's been the hardest thing for you across your career 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:12.200 do you think? 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.520 I think probably one of the hardest. The hardest thing 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.440 was throughout my whole career, especially early on, it felt 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.720 like everyone was looking for a new spinner, felt like 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.080 I never really had had the support of some people 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.600 who made it. I think felt like the selectors were 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.040 always looking for Australian League spinner or a spinner to 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.879 come in. But probably the biggest thing and probably the 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.400 hardest thing in my career is actually the media having 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.479 an impact on my parents, because I had many a 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.879 phone calls for mum and mum and dad. And I 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.760 think it probably affects my mum more than more than 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.119 anything because she reads it, then she doesn't want to 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.440 believe it. Then she starts singing about it. Then rather 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.320 than picking the phone phone up and asking me what's happened, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.639 then she thinks whatever I do, the everyone's opinion of 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.199 my mum more change as well. So I think the 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.080 media has probably been the hardest thing. 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:05.679 How deeply does it affect her? 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.040