1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Already, and this is the daily This is the Daily os. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Ours. It's Tuesday, 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 3: the third of February. I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 2: I'm Billy Fitzimon's and Emma. Before we start, I have 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: to say I'm very glad that I'm not the one 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: saying the name of the month, because if anyone reads 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: our newsletter, you'll know that this is my worst month 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: because I hate pronouncing February. Is it really brewery February? 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 3: I think it's However you want it to be pronounced, 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 3: just go with it. The important thing here is confidence. 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: Confidence is key, and the issue is that I have 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: no confidence in how to pronounce February. 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: Lucky you nailed it. That was perfect and also lucky 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: for you, Billy, it is the shortest month of the year. 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: That's a very good point. We love some optimism from 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: our Tuesday, but that is not today's deep dive. Tell 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: us about today's deep Well. 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 3: This week, some of the world's biggest tech companies are 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 3: facing a landmark trial in the US. Meta, which owns 21 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 3: Instagram and Facebook along with YouTube, are being sued over 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 3: claims that their platforms are designed to be addictive to 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 3: children and harm their mental health. The first in a 24 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 3: series of trials is taking place in LA but could 25 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 3: reshape how social media works worldwide. Today we will explain 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: what's happening, how we got here, and what it could 27 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 3: mean for young people everywhere, including here in Australia. 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: Emma, So this is a huge story that could have 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: huge implications for everyone who uses social media. Do you 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: want to just give us a big picture of what 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: is happening, because, like you said, there's a series of lawsuits. 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: It's not yes one. So we are talking about several 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 3: lawsuits which are due to be heard in the US 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: starting this week. Now. At the center of this initial 35 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: case is a twenty year old from California who's being 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: identified only by her initials KGM, so I will refer 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 3: to her as KGM throughout the episode. According to court documents, 38 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: KGM started using social media when she was just ten 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 3: years old, and she says she became addicted to social 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: media platforms and developed depression, anxiety, and body image issues 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 3: as a result. Now, the complaint says that the more 42 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 3: she used these platforms, the worse her mental health became. 43 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 3: Ultimately her lawyers argue that social media robbed her of 44 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: her childhood and that this experience is typical of many 45 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 3: children in the US. The lawsuit claims that Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: and YouTube all deliberately designed features to hook young users 47 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: and to keep them coming back, even though the companies knew, 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: according to the lawsuit, that this could harm young users 49 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: mental health. 50 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: So, just to be clear, this lawsuit involves all of 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: those companies. The allegations are against all of the ones 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: you just listed Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, and YouTube. 53 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: Well, initially that's what this trial was shaping up to be, 54 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: but not quite anymore so. Just before the trial started, 55 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 3: both TikTok and Snapchat ended up settling outside of court 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 3: with KGM, so those settlements have not been revealed. Details 57 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: haven't been made public. An undisclosed amount of money was 58 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: obviously agreed to there. But it now means that this 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 3: trial is focusing on Meta and YouTube alone, So Snapchat 60 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 3: and TikTok have been left out of the proceedings because 61 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: they came to a deal. What makes this case really significant, though, Billy, 62 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: is that it's being called a bell Weather trial, which 63 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: basically means that it is a test case that could 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: have massive implications. So there are thousands of similar lawsuits 65 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: around the world waiting in the wings, brought by other teenagers, parents, 66 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: school districts, and even state governments, and how this first 67 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: trial goes will likely influence all of those other cases. 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: And so what are the specific allegations against Meta and YouTube, like, 69 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: how are they accused of breaking the law. 70 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: So the key claim is that these companies didn't just 71 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: create platforms where bad content exists, but that they deliberately 72 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: engineered their apps to be addictive. The lawsuit points to 73 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: specific features like push notifications, video auto play when you 74 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: get served videos that play without you even choosing to 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: watch them, infinite scrolling where you can just keep scrolling 76 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: forever and ever and there's no end point, as well 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: as recommendation algorithms. Now, the lawsuit argues that these features 78 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: work out exactly what keeps users engaged and then feeds 79 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 3: them more and more and more of that content to 80 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 3: their detriment. The plaintiffs argue that these features create what 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 3: they call dopamine driven feedback loops. Basically, this idea that 82 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 3: these platforms are hijacking the brain's reward system to keep users, 83 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: especially young ones, glued to their screens for as long 84 00:04:59,160 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 3: as possible. 85 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: And so what you were talking about before, with this 86 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: being a bell Weather case, the idea is that we're 87 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: not sure exactly how this fits into the law. So 88 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: the outcome of this trial would kind of set the 89 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: law in a weird way, which courts can do. 90 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, it would set a precedent for other cases. 91 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: Okay, and so how have Meta and YouTube responded? 92 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 3: Well? Both companies strongly dispute these claims, which is no 93 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: surprise given that they opted not to settle before the trial, 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: not to reach an agreement before going to court. Metas 95 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 3: said in a statement that the lawsuits misrepresent their company 96 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 3: and the work they do to provide young people with 97 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: safe experiences online. They say they're proud of the progress 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: they've made in recent years on team safety, which is 99 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: a similar line to what we've heard from YouTube. YouTube's 100 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 3: parent company, Google said the allegations are simply not true 101 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 3: and that providing young people with a safer, healthier experience 102 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: has always been caught to their work both these platforms. 103 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: It should be noted say that there is no direct 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 3: link between using social media and mental health problems. They 105 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 3: say that this is not a link that's been definitively proved. 106 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 3: Meta has been particularly vocal about this, saying that blaming 107 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: teen mental health struggles on social media alone oversimplifies a 108 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: serious issue. They've pointed to other factors like academic pressure, 109 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: school safety concerns, socioeconomic challenges, so they're saying this is 110 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 3: a much bigger issue. Both Meta and YouTube also point 111 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 3: to safety features that they've introduced in recent years. As 112 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 3: I've mentioned, that includes things like parental controls, time limits, 113 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: and restrictions on who can contact teen accounts. 114 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: What's interesting about that is you said that this person, 115 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: the plaintiff, is twenty and they started using these accounts 116 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: when they were ten. So even if they introduced things 117 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: in the past couple of years, I imagine that you 118 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 2: actually have to look at what was being done ten 119 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: years ago. 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a decade worth of social media usage that represents, 121 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: you know, a country and an entire world, a generation 122 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 3: of social media users. 123 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: Okay, we will be back with more of today's deep 124 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: dive in just a moment, but first, here is a 125 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: little message from today's sponsor and Emma. You mentioned at 126 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: the start that this is just an initial case in 127 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: a series of trials. So what do we know about 128 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: the other cases? 129 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, there are actually more than twenty other proceedings that 130 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: are expected to follow this initial one across both LA 131 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: courts and federal courts in the US. Now that includes 132 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: some lawsuits from school districts. So certain school districts have 133 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: actually come together to bring legal action arguing that social 134 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 3: media platforms are such a public nuisance that the costs 135 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: of dealing with addicted students are being passed on to 136 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: the public, that the education system is suffering as a result. Now, 137 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: the first school district trial is scheduled to start in 138 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 3: June in California. But additionally, there are more than forty 139 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: US state attorneys general who have filed their own lawsuits 140 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: against Meta, specifically claiming that it's harming young people and 141 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: contributing to a youth mental health crisis. So this really 142 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 3: is just the beginning of what could potentially be several 143 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: years of litigation. 144 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: Wow, and how do they find a verdict in this case? 145 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: I mean, if we just take the first one for example, 146 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: will it be a judge a jury who's deciding the result? 147 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a jury determined trial. So it's expected 148 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: to last several weeks. The outcome will be determined by 149 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 3: a jury. And this is where it gets really interesting 150 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: and your question earlier, Billy, about the kind of law 151 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: and what laws are allegedly being broken here. We're going 152 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,119 Speaker 3: to learn about thousands of pages of internal company documents 153 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 3: during this case that have never been made public before. 154 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 3: So that includes internal research Bimeta and YouTube on how 155 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 3: their platforms affect children, messages between executives discussing design features, 156 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 3: and expert testimony from both sides. We're also going to 157 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: hear from Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Adam Masserri, who 158 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: runs Instagram. They are both expected to testify in person, 159 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: and that's quite unusual. We've already seen some snippets of 160 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: internal documents that have either been unsealed or leaked in 161 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 3: the media. One exchange between Meta employees that I wanted 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: to read out to you compared Instagram to drugs and 163 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: poker machines. One employee wrote, oh my gosh, your ig 164 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: Instagram is a drug. Another responded, loll, I mean all 165 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: social media were basically drug pushes. 166 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 2: And if the jury does side against these platforms, so 167 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: sides with the plaintiff. What are the consequences. 168 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: The potential consequences could be huge KGM. The plaintiff and 169 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: her lawyers aren't just seeking financial compensation for damages. This 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: is not a clear cut civil suit. They want changes 171 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 3: to how social media apps are actually designed, how they're functioning. 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: So if they win in this case, it could set 173 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 3: a precedent for other lawsuits. Yes, but it could also 174 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 3: change the way that apps work, which would impact all 175 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 3: of us. Meta has warned that if it's found liable 176 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 3: in certain cases that this could significantly impact its business 177 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: and financial results. It warned that it is forecasting to 178 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 3: potentially take a hit to its finances as a result 179 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 3: of certain litigation before the courts this year. And I 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: do just want to point out, though, that Meta reported 181 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: its full year twenty twenty five results last week. Revenue 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 3: is up twenty two percent to US two hundred and 183 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 3: one billion dollars that's two hundred and eighty nine billion 184 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: Aussie dollars. But beyond money, there could be forced changes 185 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 3: to how platform works, either forced by US state governments 186 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: the federal government. And we're talking about things like warning 187 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: labels before you log on, restrictions on certain features, for 188 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 3: young users, or maybe even bans on specific design elements 189 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 3: that are deemed too addictive. The whole idea of the 190 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: algorithm could be reshaped. Some experts are actually describing this lawsuit, 191 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 3: or this movement of lawsuits, as having the potential to 192 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 3: end up looking like tobacco does today, that these reforms 193 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 3: could lead to heavy regulation and require platforms to fund 194 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: prevention and treatment programs in the same way that we 195 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 3: saw tobacco shift and transform in the nineties. 196 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: I guess in response to that, I mean, one thing 197 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: that is different to the tobacco companies is that when 198 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: we talk about the platforms being held responsible, I guess 199 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: one thing that they might say is that it is 200 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: the content that users are posting to their platforms. And 201 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: so that's where there is a bit of a difference. 202 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: And you know, as a media company, we are responsible 203 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: for what we post to Instagram or to YouTube, but 204 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 2: here it's well, actually, are the platforms responsible for what 205 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: the users post? How does that work? 206 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a really tricky and interesting one, and 207 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: there are laws in the US that text platforms from 208 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 3: this exact issue. So, for example, if someone posts something 209 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: tofamatory on Facebook, that user can be sued, but Facebook 210 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 3: itself can't. Yes, But the key thing with this case 211 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 3: is the plaintiffs aren't arguing about user generated content. They're 212 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: not saying meta or YouTube should be held liable for 213 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 3: a particular video or post that someone made that might 214 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 3: be hate speech or promoting violence. They're focusing instead on 215 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: the design of these platforms themselves. So they're arguing that 216 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: features like infinite scrolling, like the algorithm, that these are 217 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: very specific product design choices that are made by the company, 218 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: and it's not about the third party content. It's about 219 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: I suppose the engineering of these platforms. 220 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And so then when should 221 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 2: we expect to hear a. 222 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: Verdict, Well, the first trial is expected to last six 223 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: to eight weeks, so it could be a while. Jury 224 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: selection is happening right now. There's about seventy five potential 225 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,599 Speaker 3: jurors being questioned. That will have to be narrowed down significantly, 226 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 3: and then there'll be the actual trial, so that will 227 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: have to hear evidence, testimony from KGM, testimony from Mark 228 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: Zuckerberg and other executives. They'll be expert witnesses, as well 229 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 3: as those thousands of pages of internal documents being presented, 230 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: so realistically, we're probably looking at a verdict sometime in 231 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: March or April that given the significance of this case, 232 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: there will almost certainly be appeals regardless of the outcome 233 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: from either side. So this is a legal battle that 234 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 3: really could stretch on for quite a while. I don't 235 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: think that it's too extreme to suggest it could stretch 236 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: for years. 237 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: I keep thinking when you're saying that that we are 238 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: only about a month into twenty twenty six, and it 239 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 2: feels like the unseiling of private documents is the flavor 240 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: of this year. I feel like this year, the news 241 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: cycle has just been releasing of private documents after private documents, 242 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: which is probably perhaps a good thing. 243 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: You know, we're in the unreducted era. 244 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: Yes we are, and that thank you for explaining that. 245 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: Thanks Billy, Thank you so much for listening to this 246 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: episode of The Daily Oz. We'll be back this afternoon 247 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: with your evening headlines, but until then, we hope you 248 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: have a wonderful day. 249 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 250 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Oz acknowledges 251 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: that This podcast is recorded on the lands of the 252 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 253 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the 254 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.