Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week.
Speaker 2: They might welcome back to TV Reload.
Speaker 1: My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I go
Speaker 1: behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each
Speaker 1: episode you will get a front row seat with content
Speaker 1: makers like executive producers, writers, editors and casting agents, plus
Speaker 1: the talent that we see on our screens. TV Reload
Speaker 1: reloads the shows that you are currently watching and gives
Speaker 1: you a better insight at our television industry and streaming services.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: On the podcast, I have Dr David Craig, who is
Speaker 1: the chief currently leading the hunt on Channel ten's hit
Speaker 1: new series Hunted, the groundbreaking news series from Endemolshin in Australia.
Speaker 1: Ask the question, if you had to disappear without a trace,
Speaker 1: with a team of elite investigators in pursuit of you,
Speaker 1: could you evade being captured? Well, While that question will
Speaker 1: get answered this week in the series finale, I'm going
Speaker 1: to deep dive into series one and get the answers
Speaker 1: from retired afp Dr David Craig, who has been at
Speaker 1: the front of the hunt of those eighteen fugitives with
Speaker 1: limited funds and resources. The fugitives attempted to evade and
Speaker 1: remain undetected for twenty one days. The show is an
Speaker 1: elaborate concept that has had Australian audiences questioning how true.
Speaker 2: To life this show really is.
Speaker 1: So while I had the opportunity to unpack the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes with a person in the top job, I
Speaker 1: jumped at it and I have all the answers you
Speaker 1: guys have been thumbing for weeks. We will find out
Speaker 1: why a former detective superintendent at the Australian Federal Police
Speaker 1: would say yes to being on a reality show, why
Speaker 1: the Hunters never changed their clothes, was there a camera
Speaker 1: crew making the fugitives too easy a target? And who
Speaker 1: is set to play Dr David Craig in a book based.
Speaker 2: On his life.
Speaker 1: However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd like to
Speaker 1: wellcome Hunted's Chief in charge to TV reload.
Speaker 3: These simulated operations are very very hard to put together.
Speaker 3: We have eighteen fugitives in two vehicles headed towards the
Speaker 3: Melbourne area. They've weaved that competitive spirit with the Aussie
Speaker 3: sense of humor. I will be incredibly surprised that anyone
Speaker 3: gets that finish line, How can you go and run
Speaker 3: with a camera crew following you? Fujas can run anywhere
Speaker 3: in Victoria. It's as real as it can be without
Speaker 3: being with We will hunt you, we will find you,
Speaker 3: and we will catch you. There's no acting, it's just
Speaker 3: the real thing.
Speaker 2: Hi, doctor David Craig, how are you.
Speaker 3: I'm good, Thank you, thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations on the international success of Hunted. How the
Speaker 1: hell did you get involved in this show?
Speaker 3: Reluctantly would have to be the word that comes to mind.
Speaker 3: I Yeah, they and a Maulshine approached me initially, and
Speaker 3: I wasn't that inclined to be involved. Was so new,
Speaker 3: and I'm not a television person. I don't have any
Speaker 3: of those skills. So anyway, after some time and I
Speaker 3: did some research and looked in to the legitimacy of
Speaker 3: the way the investigations are conducted and refereed, and that
Speaker 3: it's a fair income competition. Then I decided, yeah, I
Speaker 3: want to play that. I'm pretty competitive person by nature.
Speaker 1: Well, getting to know you the way we have since
Speaker 1: the show debuted, I imagine you're the sort of person
Speaker 1: that's going to ask a few questions when to producer
Speaker 1: calls and ask you to be a part.
Speaker 2: Of a show like this.
Speaker 1: What were those first few questions when it came to
Speaker 1: processing the idea of taking on this job.
Speaker 3: The questions I had to ask were because I hadn't
Speaker 3: heard of the show before. I needed some time to
Speaker 3: research it. So and research I did. I watched every
Speaker 3: single episode of every single international series before I went
Speaker 3: and spoke to them anymore. I needed to be satisfied
Speaker 3: because my reputation is under line and I'm not a
Speaker 3: reality TV person. I'm not even a TV person, and
Speaker 3: if I was going to be involved, I needed to
Speaker 3: be involved as myself. I said, well, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: happy to have a crack at it and I'll belie myself.
Speaker 3: And so far it's working and it's not good enough.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they'll let me know.
Speaker 1: In the role of chief with a background in Australian
Speaker 1: law enforcement, with considerable amount of experience as a detective
Speaker 1: superintendent of Australian Federal Police, did you think such a
Speaker 1: big concept would be hard to pull off?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Absolutely, I needed. That's why I needed to do
Speaker 3: so much research. Benjamin was I've done a lot of
Speaker 3: international training in Asia and the US and Europe, and
Speaker 3: these simulated operations are very very hard to put together.
Speaker 3: And I have to say the way the crew at
Speaker 3: Huntred have put that together, it's the most realistic experience
Speaker 3: that can be created. That's not actually a real experience,
Speaker 3: if you know what I mean. It's as real as
Speaker 3: it can be without being real.
Speaker 1: Well, you've been on some very high profile cases over
Speaker 1: the years, Bali bombings, capturing Southeast Asia's most wanted criminals.
Speaker 2: Very high profile jobs.
Speaker 1: Did this opportunity feel like a rare opportunity to have
Speaker 1: some fun with what you're highly trained with? I mean,
Speaker 1: is that how you saw this opportunity?
Speaker 3: That's exactly how I saw the opportunity. It was a competition,
Speaker 3: a lot of fun, a chance to use as many
Speaker 3: all my skills and the skills of this amazing group
Speaker 3: of hunters that I have around me. I don't do
Speaker 3: anything by myself. I'm the chief, but I have an
Speaker 3: amazing team working with me. The same in the AV
Speaker 3: I didn't track down as hurry by myself. You know,
Speaker 3: literally hundreds of police working intelligence and developing leeds to
Speaker 3: track that person down. So yeah, it's a fantastic opportunity
Speaker 3: to use those skills in a competition against some fair
Speaker 3: going Aussies that are having a good crack at trying
Speaker 3: to win one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: What would you do for one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: I think that the show has really resonated because we're
Speaker 1: so thirsty for something new on television. Did you think
Speaker 1: we need to see more concepts out of the box
Speaker 1: when it comes to getting audiences involved wanting to watch television.
Speaker 3: In my completely unqualified opinion, yes, what's good about this
Speaker 3: is there's there is no host. There's no introduction, there's
Speaker 3: no challenges. It's not a beauty competition, it's not a
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not sort of being disparaging about any
Speaker 3: other television show, but I could only ever be involved
Speaker 3: with something that is just real and unfolds itself in
Speaker 3: real life. So yeah, I think it's freshing that there's
Speaker 3: no host. It's just go from the time I launched
Speaker 3: the helicopter to the time of the end of the series,
Speaker 3: then it's just go, go go. It's like an action
Speaker 3: film if you like.
Speaker 1: If they ring you now and ask you to be
Speaker 1: on I'm a celebrity, to get me out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's a no.
Speaker 3: That's a definite no. That's a definite note. But if
Speaker 3: they asked me to do a celebrity hundred and track
Speaker 3: down Aunt Middleton from Sas Australia, I am all over
Speaker 3: that guy. For no apparent reason. I've never met the guy,
Speaker 3: but just I know he was just so qualified and
Speaker 3: such a experienced Special Forces operative. He would be a
Speaker 3: real person to go up hard against. You could lean
Speaker 3: nothing on the table with him.
Speaker 1: Well, there's been celebrity versions of Hunted in other territories
Speaker 1: around the world. Is there an Australian celebrity who you'd
Speaker 1: like to hunt down Daniel McPherson.
Speaker 3: I would love to hunt him down. His face a
Speaker 3: charming like. I'd just like to find him to have
Speaker 3: a chat.
Speaker 1: Actually, you weren't somebody who I thought would want to
Speaker 1: track down Daniel McPherson. But I've heard a rumor. Is
Speaker 1: there a possibility that he could play you in a
Speaker 1: movie based on you know, a book?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Actually, Daniel is He's in the role
Speaker 3: of producer with some other high level producers in a
Speaker 3: group in Sydney that are developing it for a film
Speaker 3: and it looks like Daniel will play me when the
Speaker 3: film gets off the ground, which is a real honor
Speaker 3: for me. I've followed Daniel's career for many years. He's
Speaker 3: just one of Australia's most talented actors and it would
Speaker 3: be a real honor to see him on the screen
Speaker 3: playing me.
Speaker 1: How important is it for you to make sure that
Speaker 1: Defeating Terror gets made accurately to the real life events
Speaker 1: that actually took place. Is there a license when it
Speaker 1: comes to art imitating life?
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is going to ask you
Speaker 3: a question or a lot, but in a very strange way,
Speaker 3: when the second Barley bombing happened in two thousand and five,
Speaker 3: there was a film crew of Australians making a documentary
Speaker 3: or a sorry dramatization of the Bali one bombing in
Speaker 3: Barli when it happened. So there was a film crew
Speaker 3: filming for the Bali one bombing when the Bali two
Speaker 3: bombing happened, and I had agents going in to stay
Speaker 3: exactly where they were filming at the Cartika Plaza in Bali.
Speaker 3: So the actors of that series got to see the
Speaker 3: real life of what they were acting, and one of
Speaker 3: those actors was Richard Roxborough, who's again an amazing, amazing actor,
Speaker 3: and I got to I by chance, just met him
Speaker 3: about a year ago and I mentioned to him, I said,
Speaker 3: you were in Bali in two thousand and five when
Speaker 3: the second Barley bombing happened. He said yeah, and we
Speaker 3: talked about it and he said he was playing a
Speaker 3: character called David Ryts. And I said, well, I said,
Speaker 3: David Royds there to Indonesia. He was our forensics guy.
Speaker 3: I send him there and he met David Royds when
Speaker 3: he was meant to be playing David Royds. It was
Speaker 3: just so peculiar that it was like art imitating life
Speaker 3: imitating art. It was very surreal. So yeah, they didn't
Speaker 3: end up finishing the film, but hopefully The Defeating Terror
Speaker 3: with Daniel McPherson and the producing group, we'll get it
Speaker 3: off the ground and get it into production.
Speaker 1: How surreal I mean to kind of be turned into
Speaker 1: kind of your own James Bond esque series. That's kind
Speaker 1: of not something you probably planned when you started out
Speaker 1: in this career.
Speaker 3: No, not at all. No know. I'm a trade at heart,
Speaker 3: did a trade in the coal mines, and I did
Speaker 3: not see my career going down to particularly now in
Speaker 3: front of cameras is just completely bizarre for me, and
Speaker 3: I'm not very comfortable. I'm happy talking about investigations. I'll
Speaker 3: talk about that all day, but put a script or
Speaker 3: something in front of me, I can't do it. And
Speaker 3: that was one of the caveats that with Hearted. I said,
Speaker 3: I could only ever be you know, don't try and
Speaker 3: make me recite anything, and they said, there's no acting,
Speaker 3: it's just the real thing, and that suits me to
Speaker 3: the ground.
Speaker 1: I'm already looking forward to series two, and the reason
Speaker 1: why is I think that people are taking notes and
Speaker 1: I think that the next time is going to be
Speaker 1: more intense.
Speaker 2: Am I onto something here?
Speaker 3: Look, anyone, if there is a season two, definitely the
Speaker 3: fugitives will be have a lot more ammunition, They'll have
Speaker 3: a lot more tools at their disposal. But let me
Speaker 3: tell you, we need to pick our game up as hunters.
Speaker 3: Every single hunter that we've got in HQ and our
Speaker 3: very accomplished ground hunters, they know my expectation and they
Speaker 3: know it's not high enough, and it won't be high
Speaker 3: enough until we have every fugitive in the bag.
Speaker 1: In Hunted and in life. You know, what's the biggest
Speaker 1: mistake people can make when it comes.
Speaker 3: To hiding generally, you know, reaching out to family, that's
Speaker 3: usually or falling back. People build a habit, You become
Speaker 3: habituated in your life. It's a comfortable routine that you
Speaker 3: end up in. When you're pushed out of your comfort zone,
Speaker 3: you look for your familiar things and it's very hard
Speaker 3: to disabduate. That's very big word. Disobituate yourself. Basically, break
Speaker 3: that habit and get a different rhythm to your life.
Speaker 3: It's very hard to maintain that under periods of stress.
Speaker 1: Without giving anything away. Throughout the series, who were you
Speaker 1: the most impressed with?
Speaker 3: Do you know that they have all had their strong elements.
Speaker 3: Chris and Panite were very good. Nick and Levinya roughing
Speaker 3: it out there for so long. That was very impressive.
Speaker 3: Brittany and Karen when they were on the rundown in
Speaker 3: one Thagie, so they were just cruising along having a
Speaker 3: nice holiday, and we were overthinking tactics and operations in
Speaker 3: the area where we should have probably modified our sites
Speaker 3: a little bit. Not speaking badly of them at all,
Speaker 3: they played their game and they almost beat us completely
Speaker 3: with it well.
Speaker 1: On last night's episode, we've really got a sense of
Speaker 1: that if you start to wig out or deviate from
Speaker 1: your plan, that's when you kind of become the most vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Is that true to real life as well when it
Speaker 1: comes to people who are.
Speaker 2: On the run.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. For example, when Nick and Lavinia were having
Speaker 3: their famous cheese board and our ground hunters went into
Speaker 3: making quarries just a couple of kilometers away, and we
Speaker 3: cut them off from all that infrastructure that they had
Speaker 3: to support, and suddenly all they had was themselves, a
Speaker 3: few dollars and someone else's car that wasn't even full
Speaker 3: of fuel. That really increases pressure on fugitives and that's
Speaker 3: why they ended up at the corner where they were.
Speaker 1: International versions, which you've watched, you know before you signed
Speaker 1: up for this, you know there's been different incarnations of
Speaker 1: the series. What do you think the biggest difference is
Speaker 1: with our Australian version. Have we brought something different to
Speaker 1: the format? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think so, And it's really good And I don't
Speaker 3: know how they did this through production, but there is
Speaker 3: the good Australian humor threaded through it. That this is
Speaker 3: a fair income hardcore game we are playing. There is
Speaker 3: nothing left off the table. So there's no falsity, There
Speaker 3: is no one just having a go for the sake
Speaker 3: of television. Everyone wants to win. But when the whistle blows,
Speaker 3: we're all friends again, and they've weaved that competitive spirit
Speaker 3: with the sense of humor that slips through. You may
Speaker 3: have seen Ben Owen, you know, a British guy from
Speaker 3: British Intelligence, saying, you know, we've got to get fair
Speaker 3: income on a mate. You know, how good is that
Speaker 3: we've got. We've just converted one pomme to Ossie Slaying.
Speaker 2: He's good on the show.
Speaker 3: He is actually one of those very annoying people that
Speaker 3: is just a nice guy and very good at everything
Speaker 3: they do. I would like to start some rumors about him.
Speaker 3: I just can't don't think i'll get any tracks.
Speaker 1: People have been commenting that you guys, the Hunters people
Speaker 1: who are in the HQ, you're all wearing the same
Speaker 1: clothes every day, which I think is weird because no
Speaker 1: one ever seemed to say that about Fox Molder on
Speaker 1: the X Files.
Speaker 3: No, that's right, yeah, and I remember watching Fox. I
Speaker 3: never thought about that either.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, well, we're we're not really focused on were certainly
Speaker 3: personal hygien is obviously important, but we're more focused on
Speaker 3: catching fugitives. You know, it's about fugitive. It's not fashion.
Speaker 3: That's what I say. I wear a suit every time.
Speaker 3: This is my uniform. This is what I wear where
Speaker 3: I was a detective superintendent. This is what I'm wearing now.
Speaker 3: Why would I want to muck around and thought into
Speaker 3: a tie or we don't have room for pretty boys
Speaker 3: and girls. We just have the only time we've got
Speaker 3: any mental capacity needs to be devoted completely to catching
Speaker 3: these fugitives.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: People love to pick apart shows, though they love to
Speaker 1: sit at home and make their comments. What's the most
Speaker 1: common question that you get from people who recognize you
Speaker 1: from the show? When people come up and say, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's you from The Hunted. You know, but
Speaker 1: do they have these common questions for you?
Speaker 3: It's never happened to me yet. No, I haven't been
Speaker 3: noticed in public and look like carry a sign around
Speaker 3: saying look at me. You know, I'm trying to be
Speaker 3: a celebrity. Seriously, I've never been approached in public yet,
Speaker 3: So I'm sorry I can't answer. I can't answer that question.
Speaker 1: Do your friends and family ask you a common question, like,
Speaker 1: what's the most common question you're getting from people that
Speaker 1: are a part of your community.
Speaker 3: Well, a lot of people ask how can it happen?
Speaker 3: Probably the biggest question, Vinjamin that I think, and this
Speaker 3: is I think with everybody who watches as a show,
Speaker 3: the first reaction is, and I had it to how
Speaker 3: can you go and run with a camera crew following you?
Speaker 3: Very legitimate question. I mean, you can't, is the answer.
Speaker 3: But what the way it's done in production is that
Speaker 3: it's not two fugitives on the run, it's actually three
Speaker 3: and one's carrying a camera. That's that simple. Well, I
Speaker 3: don't know how they do things in the field. I
Speaker 3: know the Covit cameramen and camera and women that were
Speaker 3: with the fugitives. They were living at tough they were eating,
Speaker 3: sleeping with the fugitives. They were fugitives, and they weren't
Speaker 3: there to as camera people, as they were more there
Speaker 3: as to record the fugitives. And they were fugitives themselves.
Speaker 3: So it was like groups of three fugitives as opposed
Speaker 3: to groups of two. They hid, they walk over clothing,
Speaker 3: they did everything they could because believe me, no one
Speaker 3: was on our side.
Speaker 1: I think we've evolved so much. When it comes to
Speaker 1: producing television, we think of, oh god, this looks amazing.
Speaker 1: There must be five or ten people making this show.
Speaker 1: There must be a whole camera crew. But we've evolved
Speaker 1: so much that really you've just got this one extra person,
Speaker 1: which answers a huge question. It puts a big piece
Speaker 1: of the puzzle together for a lot of people to
Speaker 1: have been watching the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is amazing. And I heard mart Benson
Speaker 3: say publicly that it's at one stage they had over
Speaker 3: ninety cameras recording simultaneously, so I mean they have got
Speaker 3: cameras everywhere to replicate things, to give us access. Because
Speaker 3: something else people say is it seems very coincidental that
Speaker 3: the hunters are always onto the fugitives. But it would
Speaker 3: be very boring TV if they kept showing every time
Speaker 3: we missed the fugitives. Because sometimes we are well off chart,
Speaker 3: you know, we're well off piece. We chase down every lead,
Speaker 3: but a lot of the time when no were even
Speaker 3: near the fugitives. So that would be some boring television
Speaker 3: if they showed all our false leads that we are
Speaker 3: coming up with a.
Speaker 1: Really good question for you. Is the big debate that
Speaker 1: I've been reading online. Do you think that this show
Speaker 1: gives criminals ideas or do you think it frightens criminals
Speaker 1: from maybe committing crimes.
Speaker 3: I think if a criminal is watching hundred and they're
Speaker 3: learning from that, then really they're not a very good criminal. Oh,
Speaker 3: I would hope if it was someone that was considering
Speaker 3: a major crime, then this gives a glimpse of a
Speaker 3: little bit of what Australian intelligence and law enforcement can
Speaker 3: throw you away if you want to harm people in
Speaker 3: the Australian community. So it's a little glimpse absolutely, but
Speaker 3: it's not by any means the whole gambit.
Speaker 1: What is something from behind the scenes that we're as
Speaker 1: an audience didn't see that we won't see that you
Speaker 1: can tell us as a bit of a behind the
Speaker 1: scenes secret from Hunted.
Speaker 3: It Probably they probably won't. It probably won't make it
Speaker 3: through to the final But one time Ben a On
Speaker 3: who the lovely British chap that we were just talking about.
Speaker 3: He's fairly shortened stature, high in intelligence. Obviously, he left
Speaker 3: the set one time and I put three cushions on
Speaker 3: his chair for when he came back so he could
Speaker 3: reach the monitor. All right, and I never confessed to
Speaker 3: him it was me, so you know that's probably the
Speaker 3: inside thing, and when he hears that, he'll come after me.
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Well, mate, it's just been so lovely to chat with you.
Speaker 1: I've been loving the show. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: Australians have been enjoying watching something new. You've definitely brought
Speaker 1: something unique to the show and something that you know
Speaker 1: you can't manufacture with your credibility. Thanks so much for
Speaker 1: having this chat and unpacking the show with me.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks very much, Benjamin, and hopefully there will be
Speaker 3: a season two mate, we can talk again.
Speaker 1: There's got to be a series two. But honestly, as
Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, I think it's going to evolve. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you bet. Look after yourself. I'm so sorry about my voice.
Speaker 1: You one day you'll probably hear me on a podcast
Speaker 1: to be like that is not the same person that
Speaker 1: spoke to me that it's a completely different person.
Speaker 2: I'm undisguised. I'm in disguised.
Speaker 1: Look after yourself, mate, Say thanks to the team at
Speaker 1: ten for organizing the chat.