1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the twenty 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: ninth of July. I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: I'm Sam Kazlowski. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: No illegal substances were discovered in more than eighty six 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: percent of strip searches conducted by New South Wales Police 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: over the last decade. That's according to a new report 9 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: by the Redfern Legal Center, which analyzed data from thousands 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: of searches between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty three. Now 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: this comes amid an ongoing legal battle in the state, 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: where a class action alleging unlawful strip searchers by New 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: South Wales Police is continuing in the Supreme Court. Today 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: we are going to take a closer look at this 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: new data, the legal requirements around strip searches and the 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: ongoing legal challenge. But before we get into it, here 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: is a quick message from. 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: Today's sponsor, So Emma. Today we're talking about this new 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: report which has found only around thirteen percent of police 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: strip searches in New South Wales actually resulted in the 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: discovery of Anlysta's substance. I want to get into this 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: darta with you. Before we get there, though, can you 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: walk me through what actually constitutes a strip search under 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: New south Wales law, because I think that's really important 25 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: to set up exactly what type of search we're talking 26 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: about here before we start looking at how many of 27 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: them result in a finding of alicity. 28 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I should note that these laws do 29 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: differ state to state, but there are some common threads, 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: so New South Wales kind of represents what most of 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: the country does or what its laws say about strip searches. 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: So in New South Wales there are actually two types 33 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: of searches that police can conduct. The first is a 34 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: general search. Now, that's where officers might ask you to 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: remove out of clothing like jacket, shoes, hat, gloves, but 36 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: they can't require you to remove all your clothes, so 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: that is a general search, and a strip search, of course, 38 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: indicated by the name, goes much further. So under New 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: South Wales's law, it's defined as searching a person that 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: may include requiring them to remove all of their clothes 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: and examining their body, but not bodied cavities. So even 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: if police just ask you to say, pull out your pants, waistband, 43 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: or to lift your shirt so they can look at 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: your stomach. That's legally considered a strip search. 45 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: And there's obviously protections in the law that are meant 46 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: to qualify why police would need to perform a strip search. 47 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: What are those requirements? 48 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: So under New South Wales's law, it's a pretty high 49 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: threshold to be met. So for a strip search outside 50 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: of a police station, the officer must suspect on reasonable 51 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: grounds that the search is necessary and that the seriousness 52 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: and urgency of the circumstances make it necessary at that location. 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: So let's break that down a bit. So basically what 54 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 2: they're saying there is that within police station the strip 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: search ability is a bit more wide ranging. Outside of 56 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: a police station, there needs to be not only a 57 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: reason why the search is necessary, but also why can't 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: wait until you get inside a police station. 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: Exactly, so exceptional circumstances only because a police station has 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: the necessary privacy and set up for searches to be 61 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: conducted privately, whereas if it's happening outside, out and about, 62 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: there has to be somewhere for a person to be searched. 63 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: The law also requires that strip searches be conducted in 64 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: the least invasive way possible and in a place that 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: provides reasonable privacy as I mentioned. 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's what constitutes a strip search and the 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: conditions in which they can be performed in New South Wales. 68 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: Redferne Legal Center has now taken data from the last 69 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: ten years or so from New South Wales Police. What 70 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: does that data show us? 71 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: So Redferne Legal Center analyzed eighty two thousand, four hundred 72 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: and seventy one strip searches. That's how many any strip 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: searches New South Wales Police conducted between twenty fourteen and 74 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, the latest available data on this, So 75 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: that's an average of more than eighty two hundred per year. 76 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: But the key finding is that in eighty six point 77 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: five percent of all searches, no illicit substance or no 78 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: illicit materials were found. So basically eighty six point five 79 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: percent of searches, or about seventy one thousand people, according 80 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: to Redferne Legal Center, were subjected to an invasive search 81 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: despite having done nothing wrong In terms of criminal convictions 82 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: that have come from these searchers. According to the report, 83 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: ten percent of searches resulted in a drug possession charge, 84 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: two percent in a drug supply charge, which is a 85 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: more serious conviction. But when you look at actual rates 86 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: of convictions, so not just someone being charged, but someone 87 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: being prosecuted and convicted of an offense, that's lower. That's 88 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: about six percent for possession and one point four percent 89 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: for drug supply. 90 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: The other big aspects to drug searchers that we're all 91 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: very familiar with, especially those of us who frequent music 92 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: festivals and live events, is drug detection dogs. What role 93 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: do drug detection dogs play in the findings in the data? 94 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: This is really interesting. So drug detection dogs sniffer dogs 95 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: as we would call them, are a significant factor when 96 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: it comes to the scale of the searchers. So the 97 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: data shows that around one in ten strip searches over 98 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: the reporting period were because of a drug detection dog, 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: So one in ten total search has happened essentially because 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: a sniffer dog indicated to police that they might be 101 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: looking at a person of interest. 102 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: And if you think back to those twoe requirements of 103 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: the law, that then satisfies that first requirement that there's 104 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: reasonable suspicion that there's some reason why the police would 105 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 2: want to perform a strip search. 106 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: Yes, so while these made up eight percent of all 107 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: strip searchers, there was actually a higher link to illicit 108 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: drugs being discovered and sniffer dog's searchers compared to the 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: the reasons that a search would be conducted. So forty 110 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: percent of searches because of sniffer dogs were actually found 111 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: to have illicit substances. That's compared to overall searchers, where 112 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: illicit substances were found in fourteen percent of all searches. 113 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: Even though forty percent might sound high, advocates have called 114 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: into question the accuracy of dogs, considering that still means, 115 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, six out of ten people were falsely identified 116 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: by a drug dog, they were strip searched and then 117 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: found not to be carrying anything illegal, So there are 118 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: question marks over kind of the efficacy and the means 119 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: of these searchers based on sniffer dogs. For these kinds 120 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: of searches, the conviction rates were similar to general searches, 121 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: So ten percent of people strip searched because of a 122 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: sniffer dog were found with substances and subsequently convicted. So 123 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: the New South I Was Police's own procedures state that 124 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: a drug dog indication alone doesn't provide legal grounds. 125 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: For a search. 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: Interesting, officers are supposed to conduct further investigations first, so 127 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: that looks like questioning a person, maybe conducting general searchers 128 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: a bag search, padding them down. So there has to 129 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: be a few steps before a search legally passes that 130 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: threshold where a person can be taken into a private 131 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: room and asked to take their clothes off. 132 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: So let's zoom out a bit now and kind of 133 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: think about this in terms of the procedure and what 134 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: these results mean. Am I right in thinking that strip 135 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: searchers are basically meant to be this last resort and instead, 136 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: according to the startup, they may have become more routine 137 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: rather than the exception. 138 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is exactly what legal experts are arguing. They're 139 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: saying that strip searchers have become part of routine policing 140 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: rather than, as you've alluded to, their sam being reserved 141 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: for serious circumstances and particularly at music festivals and also 142 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: on public transports. So RLC say the evidence of this 143 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: is based on a spike in strip searches that they 144 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: have seen or that were recorded between twenty sixteen and 145 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. The peaky is saw over fourteen thousand strip 146 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: searches annually. That's based on the average annual search being 147 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: about eight thousand. And interestingly, this all coincides with a 148 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: quota system that New South Wales Police had in place, 149 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: so they set targets for two hundred and forty one 150 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: thousand personal searches across the state over a two year 151 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: period and that's when we did see a spike in 152 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: strip searches. 153 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: I want to pick up one thing you mentioned just before, 154 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: you said that there had been increased amount of strip 155 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: searches at train stations and on public transport. Tell me 156 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: a bit more about that and what that tells us 157 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: about the changing way that police are administering these searches 158 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: across the state. Yeah. 159 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because when we hear about strip searches, 160 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: when we think sniffer dogs. I don't know about you, 161 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: but I immediately imagine music festivals because that's where I've 162 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: seen it happen the most, and. 163 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: It's where there's the most media focus. 164 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: Exactly, there's the media focus, there's a visibility. But data 165 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: released in October last year showed that since twenty sixteen, 166 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: New South Wales Police conducted eight hundred and eighty three 167 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: strip searchers at train stations, and this led RLC red 168 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: Ferone Legal Center to flag these concerns about the public 169 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: nature of train stations and whether or not it's appropriate 170 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: to be conducting so many strip searchers in a place 171 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: like a station that is so public, especially when the 172 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: law requires searches to be conducted with this idea of 173 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: reasonable privacy. So sometimes at train stations police will set 174 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: up makeshift curtains, There'll be structures on train platforms where 175 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: the searchers can be conducted behind those curtains. But for 176 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: Samantha Lee, who is a supervising solicitor at RLC, this 177 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: is inadequate. She said, there's no privacy at a train station. 178 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes police set up those structures, but common sense tells 179 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: you this is inadequate. Those are her words, and the 180 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: data also shows that these searchers disproportionately target First Nations people. 181 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: So nine percent of train station searches are of First 182 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: Nations people right First Nations people in New South Wales 183 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: making up three point four percent of the state's population. Additionally, 184 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: there are concerns about underage searchers, so sixty six searches 185 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: in that report involved children age ten to seventeen, So 186 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: there are a whole lot of questions over how these 187 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: searches are being conducted, but also who are the subjects 188 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: of these searchers. 189 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: Why don't we have a think about the way in 190 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 2: which you should or can react if you are pulled 191 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: aside for a strip search by a New South Wales police. 192 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: We know that a lot of our audience are young 193 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: Australians who we hope go to live music and support 194 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: their great live music economy, and that's obviously an overlap 195 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: to where a lot of these searches happen. Yeah, so 196 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: what's legal experts say? Are your rights and how you 197 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: should behave should this happen to you? 198 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we know that this has happened to 199 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: at least more than eight thousand people every year in 200 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: New South Wales for the last ten years. So the 201 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: most important thing to know is that you do have 202 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: the right to say no. The best thing that you 203 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: can say is I do not consent to this, So 204 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: that's what legal experts say. You can ask officers to 205 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: turn on their body worn cameras and to repeat that 206 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: they've done that so it's recorded. You can ask them 207 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: to note down your refusal or your non consent in 208 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: their notebook. Officers always carry those notebooks around. If you 209 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: have a friend with you, experts suggest that maybe it's 210 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: good to have that person film the interaction, not up close, 211 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: but to move a safe distance away and film the interaction. 212 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: But for your own safety, legal experts do generally advise 213 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: being cooperative, you know, rather than physically resisting, unless you're 214 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: prepared to go into custody and be taken to a 215 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: police station. That cooperating is usually the smoother path, the 216 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: path of least resistance. The key is making sure that 217 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: if you don't consent, that you're being really clear about 218 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: that and that that is documented, because that will become 219 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: really important evidence if you later want to challenge the 220 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: legality of a search. Now, for people under eighteen, police 221 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: have to call a parent or guardian before conducting a 222 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: strip search on a person age ten to seventeen, so 223 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: there are some gray areas if police claim the search 224 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: is urgent, but general all the thumb though, is that 225 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: parental consent must be sought before anyone under eighteen can 226 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: be searched. 227 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: This is a really dynamic area of the law and 228 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 2: it's constantly in the headlines for the way in which 229 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: has evolved over the years. And right now there's this 230 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: major class action challenging these practices in New South Wales. 231 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: What's the latest with that case, because that's quite a 232 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 2: significant development, right. 233 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really interesting one. So Red Ferm 234 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: Legal Center and Slater and Gordon, the law firm, launched 235 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: this action in twenty twenty two on behalf of thousands 236 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: of people who said they were strip searched at New 237 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: South Wales music festivals between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two. 238 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: Those proceedings began in May this year. They have since concluded, 239 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: but a decision hasn't been handed down yet, so the 240 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: law firm Slater and Gordon said it could be several 241 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: months before we hear what that decision is, but those 242 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: proceedings have wrapped up for now. 243 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: And just quickly run me through the actual facts in 244 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: this case. 245 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the lead plaintiff is Raya Meredith. She was 246 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: strip searched at Splendor in twenty eighteen Splender in the Grass, 247 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: the Byron Bay Music festival. Raya alleges she was taken 248 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: to a makeshift search area that did not have adequate privacy, 249 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: that she was asked to remove all her clothes, bend 250 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: over naked, remove her tampon so officers could inspect it. 251 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: No drugs were found, no wrongdoing was found there. And 252 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: the class action alleges that RYA's search and thousands of 253 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: others like it were unfair and constitute essentially assault by 254 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: police as well as false imprisonment relating to the forced searchers. 255 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 2: So pretty serious allegation. 256 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: Very serious allegations against police. And there are over three 257 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: thousand people who have registered in the class action, so 258 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: three thousand people who allege wrongdoing in a strip search 259 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: with New South Wales police. Now, the RLC said that 260 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: it's an important step in holding police accountable for what 261 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: they called degrading strip searches, and Slater and Gordon, the 262 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: lawyers representing this class action, said that strip searches in 263 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: New South Wales have increased over twentyfold in just over 264 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: a decade. These lawyers called them traumatic, invasive, harmful and 265 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: that they should only be used as a last resort. 266 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: Quote. 267 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: People who have been unlawfully searched have a right to 268 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: compensation for what has happened to them. 269 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: Why don't we go to the police response here. What 270 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: have New south Wales Police said to not only the 271 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: lawsuit but to all of this new data. 272 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: Yes, so broadly police defend their practices regarding the train 273 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: station data that was shared last year. A New South 274 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: Wales Police spokesperson basically said searchers are only conducted if 275 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: they are absolutely necessary based on the suspicions of an officer, 276 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: that those suspicions meet that threshold, and that there's seriousness 277 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: and urgency of the circumstances that make the strip search 278 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: necessary out of a police station. But in terms of 279 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: this class action we've seen a bit of a backflip 280 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: from police. So New south Wales Police said that they 281 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: would argue that the officer involved in the search was 282 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: authorized to conduct that search on the plaintiff had re 283 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: grounds to do so, and that the decision to do 284 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: a search was based on a positive indication that there 285 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: was prohibited substance in the airspace around the plaintiff, the 286 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: plaintiff's admission to smoking cannabis earlier that day, and police 287 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: observations of her demeanor, physical appearance and body language. But 288 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: in the days leading up to the trial actually beginning, 289 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: officials conceded that there was no lawful basis to strip 290 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: search the lead plaintiff, and court documents show essentially a 291 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: backflip that police withdrew their witnesses and that changed the 292 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: whole scope of the claim. 293 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: So there's no final result in that case yet, but 294 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: some pretty dramatic leg developments there. To end off this conversation, 295 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: why don't we take a big zoom out and look 296 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: at all of this data that you've run us through 297 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: today from the Redferne Legal Center. Give me a sense 298 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 2: of what you think the broader implications of all of 299 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: this are from a policy perspective. Yea, what do we 300 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: actually do with these findings now? 301 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, basically we have these findings that suggest this 302 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: disconnect between the law and what is happening in practice 303 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: from police. There's also this concern about the impact on 304 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable communities, and there's this public health perspective as well 305 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: about harm reduction. So harm reduction experts argue that these 306 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: practices actually make drug use more dangerous. So at music festivals, 307 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: we've heard time and time again that there are concerns 308 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: about the presence of a sniffer dog that that might 309 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: make people take all their drugs at once and potentially 310 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the health implications of that. There's this sort of preloading 311 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: or panic consumption to avoid detection. So experts and URLLC 312 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: have made several key recommendations. They want to end strip 313 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: searches based on the suspicion of minor drug possession. They 314 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: want to end all strip searches of children under eighteen, 315 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: and they want to cease the use of drug dogs 316 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: at festivals and events. They're also calling the mandatory annual 317 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: data so that there is more transparency in the reporting 318 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: of how strip search powers are being used, and for 319 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: the expansion of harm reduction programs as a more effective 320 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: alternative to these strip search approaches. 321 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: There's always a lot of reform discussions that happen around 322 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: these sorts of issues. So right now, though police do 323 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: deploy drug sniffer dogs at music festivals, and this tension 324 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 2: between law enforcement and public health recommendations continues to evolve. 325 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: We've seen the surge in the number of testing facilities 326 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: now at festivals and the normalization especially in Queensland and 327 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: Victoria and increasingly as well in New South Wales of them. 328 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: But I think really the broader conversation here and what 329 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 2: I heard from that data from the Red Ferd and 330 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: Legal Center. Is that disconnects you were speaking about between 331 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 2: the guidelines and what the law says, and that line 332 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 2: you mentioned about the targets set on searching and we 333 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: need to make sure for the good people in our 334 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: New South Wales police force that there's a coherence between 335 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 2: what they're told to do on the shift and what 336 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: the law describes. 337 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And I mean, look, there has been some 338 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: progress or some reform in New South Wales. There was 339 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: a drug summit last year, pill testing trials have rolled 340 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: out in the state. Despite Premier Chris Mins kind of 341 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: taking a cautious approach to drug policy reform. There was 342 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: an early drug diversion initiative that was rolled out last 343 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: year that essentially now allows people caught with small amounts 344 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: of drugs in New South Wales to pay a fine 345 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: or complete a program instead of being criminally convicted. That 346 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: sort of initiative is really in its early stages, in 347 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: its infancy. We're not really sure the impact that that 348 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: has had yet in this space, but it is a 349 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: step in what legal experts describe as the right direction. 350 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 2: A really complex issue with significant implications for civil liberties 351 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: and police practice in New South Wales, but at the 352 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: same time quite rapid progress as well. Emma, thank you 353 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: so much for running us through that. Thank you, and 354 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 2: thank you for joining us on the Daily os this morning. 355 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears with some 356 00:18:53,040 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: headlines later today. Until then, have a great day. My 357 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung 358 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that 359 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl 360 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island 361 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples 362 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 2: of these countries, both past and present.