1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: You've probably heard of Who Gives a Crap A toilet 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: paper company that loves a good pun, especially one that 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: relates to your bum. And what's more, Who Gives a 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Crap also donates fifty percent of profits towards building toilets 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: and providing sanitation to those in need. Now, for co 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: founder and CEO Simon Griffiths, having fun with the brand 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: is super important. Simon and his team are obsessed with 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: delivering something unexpected to customers and creating a culture of 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: quirky fun in the workplace. So how do you take 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: a traditionally very dull and boring category like toilet paper 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: and consistently deliver fun and laughs to your customers. My 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: I work a show about how to help you do 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: your best work. Work On Today is my Favorite Tip episode. 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: We go back to an interview from the past and 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. So 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: in today is extract, I speak with co founder and 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: CEO of Who Gives a Crap, Simon Griffiths, and in 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: this extract we chat all about how Simon sees himself 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: in the business of delight, and more importantly, how he 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: actually makes that happen. So how does Simon demonstrate that 23 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: delight to both people within the business and also to 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: his customers. 25 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: I think to our customers it's just a part of 26 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: the customer experience, and so it's not something that we 27 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: talk about externally, but internally it's something that we come 28 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: back to a lot. And so there's lots of different 29 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: examples of this, but I think that it's often very 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: easy to say, well, if we're in the toilet paper business, 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: we just do this. But if we ask ourselves a 32 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: question of well, what would we do if we're in 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: the business of delight to how we solve this problem, 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: then you'll come at it from a very different place. 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: So I think that our packaging is an example of that, 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: where when we very first had the early kind of 37 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: concept for who gives a Crap, we realized that we 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: weren't going to be in supermarkets, which is where most 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: toilet paper was sold when we first got started, so 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: we could think about our packaging a little bit more 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: creatively and differently, and we said, okay, well if we 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: put ourselves in the shoes of the customer. How do 43 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: they think about toilet paper being in their house? And 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: you often see roles being stacked up in the bathroom, 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: and so we said, well, what if we could wrap 46 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: every role individually and design the packaging so that when 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 2: it's stacked up, it creates a really fun, delightful moment. 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: And so we took inspiration from I think one of 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: the co founders, Danny, who was working on this with me, 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: had walked past the barbershop and seen one of those 51 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: red and white striped poles earlier in the day, and 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: so he mocked up, what would it look like if 53 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: we had these roles and you stack them on top 54 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: of each other, and they created that sort of barber 55 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: pole effect with a red and white striped wrapper, and 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: so that was what led us to initially say, well, 57 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: what if we did forty eight different design wrappers boxes, 58 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: And I said, well, our production team will kill us. 59 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: We can probably do five, And so we mocked up 60 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: five different roles, with the first of them being a red, 61 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: orange and blue striped wrapper with a white stripe in 62 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: there as well. Was one of the very first designs 63 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: that we did that was part of our first packaging, 64 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: and so I think we have a lot of wouldn't 65 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: it be cool if moments and packaging was certainly one 66 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: of those. Wouldn't it be cool if we could design 67 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: something that was so beautiful our customers would want to 68 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: take it out of the back of the bathroom cupveroed 69 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: where toilet papers traditionally stored and put it on display. 70 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: And there's probably fifty ideas that we have for every 71 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: one or two that stick, and packaging was one of 72 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: the one or two that really stuck in a way 73 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: that was meaningful for our customer, to the point where 74 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: when people first opened up boxes, it was so delightful 75 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: that they wanted to take a photo of that and 76 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: share that with someone else, either in a text message 77 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: or what'sapp or on social media. And so I think 78 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: if we come back to that, putting ourselves in the 79 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: shoes of the customer and saying, well, what if we're 80 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: in the business of delight, how would we insert the 81 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: light into this moment? It allowed to think very differently 82 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: about what we would do rather than just being a 83 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: regular old toilet paper company. 84 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: I feel like you've achieved that so well, I know 85 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: within my own home. I had some people over for 86 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: dinner last night, and I made sure that I topped 87 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: up my little pile of who gives toilet paper in 88 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: the bathroom because it just looks so cool. Now, one 89 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: of the things I love about your brand is how 90 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: you use humor and especially puns, which you have done 91 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: from day one. And I'm personally surprised at how few 92 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: businesses use humor at all. I mean, let alone use 93 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: humor as amazingly as you guys do. And I want 94 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: to know how do you personally encourage humor at work 95 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: and with your team? 96 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think like this is just like 97 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: a core part of our culture. I think we have 98 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: this philosophy of if you can't have a laugh at work, 99 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: then what's the point of being at work? And so 100 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: we sort of have a culture in a way, and 101 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: a brand now that self selects people that thrive in 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: that environment and want to be there to have a 103 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: bit of fun and to think about things a little 104 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: bit differently. And I think the challenging part of that 105 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: is really being conscious of crafting a culture that's quirky 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: fun rather than dirty fun. And we tread this fine 107 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: line and we say that our brand name is the 108 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: dirtiest thing that you'll ever hear us say, And so 109 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: all of our humor has to be witty and clever 110 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: and quirky without going down the path of being gross 111 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: and disgusting. And that cannot necessarily be an easy thing 112 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: to do for a toilet paper company, but it's something 113 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: that we think about a lot, and particularly as we're 114 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: interviewing for our creative team, for example, we'd really test 115 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: how people think about the humor and the brand. 116 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: How do you test someone's humor? 117 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: A big part of our interview processes is the homework assignment, 118 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: and with our creative team in particular, that can be 119 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: a brainstorming session with our other team members to understand 120 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: how they idate and what nuggets of ideas they grip 121 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: together to turn into something that they think will be 122 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: potentially a good campaign for the brand. And so an 123 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: environment like that allows us to under stand, yeah, like 124 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: how someone approaches the humor of the brand, what they 125 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: think is good humor versus bad humor and why, and 126 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: we can find what are the kind of culture ads 127 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: or the humor ads of the people that will potentially 128 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: join the team. 129 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: So when you're recruiting for any role. Will that be 130 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: a prerequisite that people I don't know, how do you 131 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: learn if someone's funny and they're willing to have fun 132 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: at work through a recruitment process. 133 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: This is something we think a lot about in some 134 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: of the more serious functions as well. So finance is 135 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: a great example of this, where we need people in 136 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: that function who can take really serious concepts and break 137 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: them down into bite sized chunks that relate to their team. 138 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: Then if someone in finance can insert humor into what 139 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 2: they're doing, then for us, that's just like a huge 140 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: win because it's a function that has a terrible reputation 141 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: for being stale and boring, and if we can change 142 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: that within our business and make it more fun, then 143 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: that's a real in for us in terms of how 144 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: we're building a culture that rewards the right things and 145 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: helps engage our team in what some people perceive as 146 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: being less exciting parts of the business. But personally, you know, 147 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: I'm a big finance fan, so I'd never say that 148 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: out loud. 149 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: I'd say, we like, when you're recruiting a finance person, 150 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: how would you find out if they can do these things, 151 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: if they can communicate complex concepts clearly and maybe with 152 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: a bit of humor as well. 153 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: So again, homework assignments here is so important, and so 154 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: I no brief for our homework assignments. We encourage people 155 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: to use jokes and gifts and emojis and allow them 156 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: to start bringing out their own personality through what they're 157 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: presenting back to the team. And so it becomes a 158 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: real moment of allowing someone to get access to our 159 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: brand guidelines, interpret them, and then use them to create 160 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: a presentation that for a finance person would typically be 161 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: quite boring and straight. And if they can turn that 162 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: into something that it's the right brand notes even a 163 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: little bit, then it gives us an indication or a 164 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: glimpse into what might be possible for that individual. 165 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying 166 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: how I work, you might want to follow me on 167 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: the social channels. I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me 168 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: at Amantha Imba. I think I'm the only one on 169 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: the called Amantha Imba, and you can also find me 170 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Amantha I and on Twitter at Amantha 171 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: I'd love to connect with you, so drop me a 172 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: nighte let me know you listen to the Show How 173 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 1: I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from 174 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios, and thank you to Martin Imba who 175 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: does the audio mix and makes everything sound so much 176 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise.