1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: The Wiggles acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: and their connections to land, see and community. We pay 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: our respects to elders, past, present and emerging. 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: Welcome to Wiggle Talk, a podcast for parents. I'm Simon Price, 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm the Red Wiggle and. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 3: I'm Lucky Gillespie and I am the Purple. Hello, Lucky, 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: Hello Simon, It's great to see you you too. Today, Simon, 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 3: we are talking about a topic that we are living 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 3: at the moment, but it's separation anxiety. We're talking with 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: Jess Vanderweer from Nurtured First. She is a registered psychotherapist 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 3: and child therapist who works with families through all of 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: those tricky goodbyes. 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, because even when you know it's normal, it can 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: still be a lot. The daycare handover, the schoolgate, the 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: babysitter at the door. Now Jess thankfully is going to 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: help us understand what's going on with children in those 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: moments and what to actually say do that might help. 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: But before get into speaking with Jess, we had an 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: incident on Saturday night. Ash's getting ready for bed as 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: we do every night, and we're in the lund room 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: he trips over the rug and goes headfirst into the 22 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: stone coffee table and splits his eye open, like really badly, 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: like a massive gash above his eye. And so it 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: was like, you know, you go into that panic, and 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: I went and grabbed ice and his blood everywhere and 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: a towel and the whole thing. And I'm amazed though, 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 2: that that's the first time it's happened that. As busy 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: as Asher is and as you know, full on as 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: he is is climbing, he's jumping like he's always been. 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: That that's actually the first time who had to deal 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: with that. So when we went to hospital, we kind 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: of stopped the bleeding at home. We just kind of 33 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: held him. He was obviously very upset around with Children's 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: Hospital emergency there, they are unbelievable. Then. They were so good. 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: Dr Alex and Maddie was the nurse there. What was 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 2: great because they actually treated him pretty much straight away. 37 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: They managed to glue it and didn't have to do stitches, thankfully, 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: because with stitches they would have had to give him gas. 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: But he just had dinner and he was also eating 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: snacks at the hospital and you need to fast, have 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: fasted to be able to have the gas. Now. I 42 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: don't quite understand how that works, because you never know 43 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: if you're going to fall over and hurt yourself and 44 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: need gas, so you can't just fast every day, even 45 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: though I am intermitted fasting at the moment, right. Yeah, 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: but that's another whole other thing. But they are incredible, 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: and because they went and saw him straight away, because 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: the longer you leave it, the more it swells, then 49 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: the harder it is to join and skin back together 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: to then. And this clue is unbelievable, like literally a 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: little tube and they just glue and it sticks like 52 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: super glue. Wow. And the only issue they were having 53 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: is because it was so close to the eye that 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: so you can't get any blue in the eye, which 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: you know, thankfully I went according to plan and didn't. 56 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 3: But far does it look all right today? 57 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 4: Yeah? 58 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's healing really well. It's still swollen and 59 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: the eye has been getting blacker over as the days 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: go on. But yeah, he's totally fine with it. And 61 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: apparently with the glue and everything, and I guess stitches too. 62 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: You can't get a wet. If you get a wet 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: too early, it can really affect the way it heals. Wow. 64 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: But what was funny On the way to the hospital, 65 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: we walked past his brand new playground's blood coming out 66 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: of his head and he goes, oh can I no, mate, 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: you go and play on the plate right now. We're 68 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: on the way to hospital. Anyway, that was there. 69 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: Was no little concussion or anything with that. 70 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: And they asked the question if he cried straight away, 71 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: which is I guess is obviously the sign that yes, 72 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: he didn't get knocked out at all. Wow. And because 73 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: he did, you know. 74 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: Anyway, thank you doctor Alex. Doctor Alex and Maddie excellent. Well, 75 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: a few weeks ago, we were chatting about attachment security 76 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: and we touched on separation anxiety, and then we realized 77 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: we kind of skimmed over it because separation anxiety isn't 78 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 3: just a baby thing. It can show up at daycare 79 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 3: drop offs, at school gates, at bedtime babysitters, even that 80 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: Sunday night feeling when children start worrying about the week ahead. 81 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 2: So today we wanted to do a proper deep dive 82 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: what separation anxiety actually is and what you can do 83 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: that's practical and realistic when you're standing there with a 84 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: child wrapped around your leg to help us unpack it. 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: We're joined by Jess vanderwer from Nurtured First. She supports 86 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: families through separation, anxiety, school refusal, and all those tricky goodbyes. 87 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: So let's get started. 88 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 3: Jess, Welcome to will Talk. 89 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. 90 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 5: My daughters are so jealous that I am chatting with 91 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 5: the two of you right now. But I told them 92 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 5: that I would say hi. 93 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll say high back because we met you in 94 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: Hamilton in Canada last year with our shows, so it's 95 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: really love to see you again. Lucky always gestures to 96 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: our neon wiggle Talk because he's very proud of it. 97 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: He's kind of whatever. He says, welcome to wiggled Talk. 98 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: We get the gesture and I like it. 99 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 3: Look yeah, thank you, I like it. 100 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 6: I like the sign. It's nice. Yeah yeah. 101 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 5: And it was so great to meet you. You made 102 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 5: my daughter's summer. They were so happy and it was 103 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 5: such a fun concert. So thank you again for inviting 104 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 5: us down. 105 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 6: That was great. 106 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: No, it's great anytime, anytime. 107 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us today. We're talking about a 108 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: big one. It's a big one for us. At the 109 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: moment with separation anxiety. But could you just start by 110 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: kind of explaining what actually is separation anxiety. 111 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 5: This is such a great topic because we often talk 112 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 5: about separation anxiety like it's this really terrible thing, and 113 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 5: I think it can be very frustrating, it can be 114 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 5: very difficult. But it's important for parents to know that 115 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 5: separation is one of the main problems or challenges that 116 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 5: children face. And that's because a child's entire world revolves 117 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 5: around their parent, and so it only makes sense that 118 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 5: when they are supposed to not be with their parent, 119 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 5: it brings up kind of a franticness in them where 120 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 5: they want to get closer to their parents where they 121 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 5: feel safe. Right, And I'd be curious to hear about 122 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 5: both of your experiences. I know you've both mentioned that 123 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 5: you're going through it right now. We could talk about that, 124 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 5: but I just want to start by normalizing for parents, 125 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 5: Like when they come to my practice and they tell 126 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 5: me that their kids are struggling with separation anxiety, and say, okay, well, 127 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 5: what makes sense. Their whole world revolves around you. They 128 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 5: feel safest with you. For a lot of kids, they've 129 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 5: spent most of their time with you. And separation signals 130 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 5: being apart, and that's hard for kids because they don't 131 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 5: know yet how to make. 132 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 6: Sense of their world. 133 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 5: And so there is kind of a range of separation 134 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 5: challenges that we can see from you know, crying a 135 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 5: little bit when they have to say goodbye to their parent, 136 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 5: but being able to adapt to just being frantic all 137 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 5: day or unable to let's say, be at daycare or 138 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 5: school or sleep in their own bed. So it can 139 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 5: be a bit of a spectrum. But I always like 140 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 5: to start there just to normalize the fact that it's 141 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 5: good that kids have a bit of a tricky time 142 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 5: to be away from us, and there's a lot of 143 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 5: things we can do to help you do. 144 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 2: Hear a bit and it has been said on the 145 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: podcast previously where other guests we've spoken to it that 146 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: separational anxiety kind of is for baby toddlers finishes around 147 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: sort of peaks around eighteen months. My personal experience, if 148 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 2: what we're experiencing with Asher is separation anxiety he's five now, 149 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: it feels like it continues on and doesn't actually peek 150 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 2: and stop at eighteen months. Is that right? 151 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 6: Yes? 152 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 5: I would say that's right. Maybe it's Samon I'm wondering, 153 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 5: can you tell me a little bit about what's going 154 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 5: on with Asher. 155 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: We're just doing the transition to school, so that's where 156 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: he started his we call it KINDI here, which is 157 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: basically his first year of primary school, but prior to that, 158 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: at daycare in the last year, for the last six 159 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: months of last year, he'd be fine to go, he'd 160 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: get to the gate, he'd be all happy at the door, 161 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: and then as soon it was the time to leave, 162 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: he'd just cling on and not wanting to leave. And 163 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: then of course you hear the two minutes later he's 164 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: completely fine and everything's okay. And now we've a bigger 165 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: transition with you know, big school, so that's kind of 166 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: we're going through that now. But it's the same thing 167 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: that's he's happy to go, gets the door, then doesn't 168 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: want to leave, holds on, and then a couple of 169 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: minutes later is totally fine. So would you class that 170 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: a separation? Anxieties that but he's going through in that 171 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: basically leaving us well ask leaving him. 172 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 5: I think what you're describing is so common and makes 173 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 5: a lot of sense and also sounds like it's actually 174 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 5: going quite well. And I know, it doesn't feel like 175 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 5: that when your child's like clinging to you and saying, Daddy, 176 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 5: don't let me go. But if we think about it 177 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 5: from a child's perspective, again, like I mentioned before, they 178 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 5: feel safest with their primary caregiver attachment source at least 179 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 5: that's the hope, right, So it's a really good sign 180 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 5: that he feels really safe with you and he wants 181 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 5: to be with you and your wife as well. Then 182 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 5: it also makes sense that he's excited. He wants to 183 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 5: go to school, so he can understand. He can kind 184 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 5: of see in his head like how the day's going 185 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 5: to go. But when that moment happens where it's like 186 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 5: I have to say goodbye, all of a sudden, a 187 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 5: frantic feeling often comes over a children's bodies their minds 188 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 5: that says, I just need one last attempt to kind 189 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 5: of keep you with me because I feel safest with you. 190 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 5: And for children age five, they can't really hold multiple 191 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 5: thoughts at the same time, so it's very difficult for 192 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 5: them to think yeah, and for a lot of that 193 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 5: that's a whole other topic, but it is. It's very 194 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 5: hard and we see this a lot of separation anxiety 195 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 5: at bedtime too, especially when kids only want one parent 196 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 5: to put them to bed. It's not that they don't 197 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 5: love the other parents, they don't like them, it's that 198 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 5: their brains just get really stuck. So in that moment, 199 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 5: your son's probably getting stuck on He can't think, Oh, 200 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 5: my day's going to go totally fine and be happy 201 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 5: in two minutes. All he can think of is I 202 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 5: want to keep you close right now. And the really 203 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 5: promising thing about what you're explaining is when you do 204 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 5: say that goodbye and you kind of reorient him to 205 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 5: who is he trusting when you're not there, right so 206 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 5: the teacher, And that transition always takes a bit longer 207 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 5: when it's brand new because he doesn't know about the 208 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 5: teacher yet, right, So he doesn't know, can I trust 209 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 5: this teacher? Do I really know them? Do they have 210 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 5: my best interests at heart? 211 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: You know? 212 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 5: Are they going to really take care of me when 213 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 5: my parents aren't there? So those are things that we 214 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 5: can help with as parents. But when he does turn 215 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 5: to that teacher and feels taken care of during the day, 216 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 5: he is doing well at school, and so that tells 217 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 5: me that he has what I would think is very 218 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 5: normal separation struggle there, but he's doing well at school. 219 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 5: And so where I have more of the concern is 220 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 5: when a child when I hear the same story, but 221 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 5: all day long, the child's crying for mom or dad 222 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 5: and they're struggling at school and they can't concentrate, And 223 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 5: then we have to kind of look, Okay, what else 224 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 5: is going on in this child's environment that they're struggling 225 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 5: so much at school? 226 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 6: Does that make sense? 227 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely so if what we're experiencing at home is 228 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: more of a normal, if you can say that if 229 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: what you just described, then with a child continues to 230 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: cry and is upset for a longer period of time, 231 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: what are some steps that parents can do or care 232 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: givers can do to help with that separation, that kind 233 00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: of anxiety. 234 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe I'll start with just stuffs that parents can 235 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 5: do no matter what. So you can do this with 236 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 5: Asher too. So the very first thing is something that 237 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 5: doctor Gordon Nufeld calls matchmaking, and basically it's this idea 238 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 5: of who's going to be caring for your child when 239 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 5: you're not there and the parent trying to kind of 240 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 5: match make like make this connection between the child and 241 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 5: that other person. So, for example, let's say asher's teacher 242 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 5: or your child's teacher. When my daughters were starting school, 243 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 5: I would tell them stories about their teachers. So I 244 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 5: would try and find some sort of information out about 245 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 5: the teacher and then be like, Oh, your teacher has 246 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 5: a cat and you have a cat, isn't that cool? 247 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 5: Like you both have cats. Or your teacher has a 248 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 5: sister just like you, and she's also an older sister. 249 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 5: There's probably so many things you guys can talk about 250 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 5: because you both have that in common. So finding some 251 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 5: ways to connect the child with who's going to be 252 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 5: taking care of them when you're not there helps them 253 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 5: feel taken care of. And that has to be done, 254 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 5: that connection making from their other attachment source, so ideally 255 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 5: from the parents, right and it's telling stories about the 256 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 5: teacher and and right away, then the child's heart is 257 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 5: a little more open to the person who's going to 258 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 5: be taking care of them when their parent isn't there. 259 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 5: So that's a first step that I teach all parents 260 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 5: to do with there, that's a. 261 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: Really good idea. We need to do some deep dust 262 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: and stalking. 263 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, if you're a teacher listening to this, like I, 264 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 5: I work with a lot of teachers too. And I'll say, 265 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 5: just send that out to all the parents that are 266 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 5: going to be in your class next year, Like, send 267 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 5: out just like a few, like here's some little facts 268 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 5: about me, so that they can start to talk to 269 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 5: their kids about it. It's going to make your transition 270 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 5: into school so much easier if the children already have 271 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 5: those facts about you. 272 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a good idea, a really nice idea, 273 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 3: because it is a brand new person, isn't it. 274 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: Do you remember that feeling when you were young and 275 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: they were miss like ashes teacher's names, miss Lee, and 276 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 2: you always wanted to find it their first name. You 277 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 2: remember that that intrigue about that they actually had a 278 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 2: first name. We won't dig that deep. It's got to stay. 279 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: We can't. We can't, it. 280 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 6: Can't get that deep. 281 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think it is cool for kids, and 282 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 5: this goes for like baebe sitters or whoever it is 283 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 5: to know that my parents like this person and they 284 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 5: trust them. I remember with my middle daughter, who is 285 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 5: my most sensitive child, who struggled the most of the 286 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 5: transition to school. This was such a groundbreaking thing for her. 287 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 5: Every day was a struggle. She was having you know 288 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 5: what would be more than just a normal separation struggle, 289 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 5: Like she was really having a hard time crying for 290 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 5: us during the day. And one day after school, I 291 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 5: just just we were sitting on the floor together and 292 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 5: she was just telling me how she didn't want to 293 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 5: go to school, and I said, you know that your 294 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 5: teacher has my phone number, right, and if anything were 295 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 5: to ever happen, it would be so easy. She could 296 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 5: just pick up her phone and call me and I 297 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 5: could come pick you up if you were ever really 298 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 5: struggling or something bad happened. And same for me, like 299 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 5: if I ever needed to get a hold of her, 300 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 5: I have her cell phone number, and I just showed her, 301 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 5: you know, you could do the same thing for email 302 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 5: or whatever it is. 303 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 6: And it was like, oh, weight was lifted off beaks. 304 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 5: First, I hadn't thought about the fact that she didn't 305 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 5: realize that I could communicate with her teacher and take 306 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 5: care of her that way, even when I wasn't right 307 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 5: there beside her. And after that moment, all of a sudden, 308 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 5: she was so much more willing to go to school. 309 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 5: So sometimes it is that simple. 310 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 3: That's the way of connecting to your child's mind. That 311 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 3: you're not just totally going off and have no way 312 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 3: of getting back or getting in touch with if there 313 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: is something wrong, because they can put those thoughts together, 314 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 3: can't they. 315 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I find it interesting because you have those conversations 316 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: saying we're dropping you off, we will be back, and 317 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 2: you feel like that's a logical conversation you've had your 318 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: child's understood. But like you were saying early in that moment, 319 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: when that separation is about to happen, all that just 320 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: goes out the window completely. With regards to leaving, is 321 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: it best if they're clinging on, you've managed to get 322 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: them to the teacher, you just get out there as 323 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: quickly as possible, or you know, is the lingering a 324 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: good thing about that? Or you've actually just got to 325 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: cut it And as bad terrible as your fear, which 326 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: happened to me the other day. You know, she was 327 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: running to the door, No, no, and I just said 328 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: to not. I didn't look back. I just kind of 329 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: kept walking and felt awful, But I felt like there 330 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: was the best situation that time. But is there a 331 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: right or wrong thing to do in those circumstances? 332 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 5: You know, it's hard to give a simple answer. That's 333 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 5: going to work for all kids, because it really depends 334 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 5: on the child, their temperament, and. 335 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 6: Also some other factors too. 336 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 5: But I'll say the one thing I wouldn't suggest for 337 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 5: parents is sneaking out. I think that that's often kind 338 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 5: of our inclination because we were like, okay, they're happy, 339 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 5: like let me quickly run out for a minute. And 340 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 5: I've totally even the parent to do that too, just 341 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 5: because it feels easier in the moment. But then eventually, 342 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 5: when your child's looking for you and you're not there, 343 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 5: you know, there can come a bit more of that 344 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 5: frantic energy again the next time you drop them off, 345 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 5: which is like, well, I don't know if you're just 346 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 5: going to sneak out and leave or if you're going 347 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 5: to actually. 348 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 6: Say goodbye to me. 349 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 5: So now I'm going to try it even harder to 350 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 5: make sure that you don't leave and I keep you close. 351 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 5: So that is the one thing I would I would 352 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 5: say that I just kind of across the board, So 353 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 5: don't suggest. But the real underlying message that a child 354 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 5: needs with her parents drops them off is are you 355 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 5: still taking care of me even when you're not here 356 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 5: right beside me? And are we still connected even when 357 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 5: we're apart. And so a real important thing that parents 358 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 5: can do is when they're saying goodbye, reminding their child 359 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 5: of the reunion, which Simon, I think you said right, like, 360 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 5: I'll see you again at the end of the day. 361 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 6: I'm looking forward to seeing you. 362 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 5: Then I'm going to be thinking about you today. It's 363 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 5: going to be fun. I'm going to give you the 364 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 5: biggest bear hug at the end of the day. So 365 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 5: focusing so much more on when you're going to see 366 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 5: them again and what that's going to be like. Then 367 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: like I'm leaving, I gotta go to work. 368 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 6: You know, I'm busy. 369 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 5: I have a full day, which I even found myself 370 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 5: saying that the other day to my child when she 371 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 5: was struggling, and I was like, what am I doing? 372 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 5: Like she doesn't care I have a client at nine am, 373 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 5: Like she wants to know that I'm going to be 374 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 5: there at three pm to pick her up, right, So 375 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 5: that's simple shift. And then some kids too need a 376 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 5: bit of what I call bridging, which basically something so 377 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 5: that they can feel close to you even when you're 378 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 5: not together. So I like to draw heart on my 379 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 5: daughter's hand, and a heart on my hand, and then 380 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 5: I say to her, you know, if you miss me 381 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 5: during the day, you can you can hold onto your 382 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 5: heart and think about mommy and I'll feel it on 383 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 5: my heart. 384 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: You know. 385 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 5: I like all those kind of things. Or we're connected 386 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 5: with an invisible string. You can pull it and I'll 387 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 5: feel it in my heart and I'll pull it back, 388 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 5: and we're still connected even when we're not together. So 389 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 5: sometimes things like that can also be helpful for kids too. 390 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: There was a quote that went around in the little 391 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 3: pack that came throughout our girls, but it was that 392 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 3: the next wave after the wave goodbye, is the wave 393 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 3: hello at pick up, which was really nice, but I 394 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 3: was a complete and other disaster day one. Absolutely Dad 395 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 3: had to comfort me actually, which I was embarrassed about it. 396 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 3: What about the Sunday kind of chat because it's already 397 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: come up, like, oh. 398 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 7: We've got a weekend and then what back? What is 399 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 7: there like a kind of a little smooth way we 400 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 7: can talk about Sundays and Mondays with that without having 401 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 7: to promise that Saturday's coming up. 402 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: Against that's there for you again. 403 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 5: Look, I mean I feel like just to talk about 404 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 5: your first point, like it is so hard for us 405 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 5: as parents too. 406 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 6: I was a mess. 407 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 5: I mean every time I have three kids, and every 408 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 5: time they've either start at school or start a daycare 409 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 5: or even a new class, and just like. 410 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 6: Why am I crying again? Like it's so hard for 411 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 6: us too. 412 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: Is it bad if your child sees you in that 413 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: state when you're separating? That not to make you feel bad. 414 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say kind of two things, Like, I 415 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 5: think it's good for kids to see our humanness and 416 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 5: to see that sometimes we do have a hard time 417 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 5: right and especially on the first week. It's just it's 418 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 5: normal to have a human response. But I think at 419 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 5: the very same time, they need to trust our leadership. 420 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 5: And if they can sense that we don't think that 421 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 5: this is a good idea, or we're hesitant about it, 422 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 5: or we don't really trust the teacher, we're unsure, they're 423 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 5: going to have a much harder time transitioning. So I 424 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 5: think it's both. It's okay to have that human response, 425 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 5: especially in the first couple of days. And I remember 426 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 5: saying to my daughter too, like, hey, this is tough 427 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 5: for me too. We've spent with my oldest we spent 428 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 5: so much time together. We spent almost four years together 429 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 5: before she went to school, and she didn't really go 430 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 5: to daycare or anything like that, and so the first 431 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 5: time she went, it was the first time both of 432 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 5: us were away from each other, and that was really 433 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: really hard. And it was okay to name that and 434 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 5: have those tiers together, but also she needed to know 435 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 5: that I trusted this plan and that I knew she 436 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 5: was going to be okay. So she had to kind 437 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 5: of rest in the fact that I believed that this 438 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 5: was going to be okay, if that makes sense. 439 00:19:50,080 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, We're talking a lot about, you know, when 440 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 4: children a bit older, but we've took there is that 441 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 4: separation anxiety which babies experience, and they can't vocalize it, 442 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 4: you know, they'll obviously be upset. 443 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: And I wondered thinking about our personal experience with Asher 444 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: was where he was born during COVID, and with COVID 445 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: came basically Lauren, Ashra and myself together twenty four hours 446 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 2: a day every day. We also didn't have a lot 447 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: of grandparent help anyway, so that wasn't happening anyway. But 448 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: then outside of COVID, we weren't getting babysities in it 449 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: was just always us. And so I've often wondered whether 450 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: COVID and then the way we were in the fact 451 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: that Asha didn't get used to at a young age 452 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: other people coming in and looking after him without us 453 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: being there, if that's kind of contributed to the situations 454 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: and the scenario we're kind of experiencing now or have 455 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: done with daycare and that was school. 456 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, quite passively. 457 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 5: I also had a COVID baby also, so I can 458 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 5: resonate with that experience a lot where you really had 459 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 5: that quality special time together, but maybe not as much 460 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 5: opportunity for them to go off and be with other caregivers. 461 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 5: And I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing, 462 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 5: and it's okay for that transition to maybe take some 463 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 5: time to feel more comfortable. I think with what you're 464 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 5: describing that ashers. You know, once he gets to school, 465 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 5: once he sees his teacher, he's okay. You know, that's 466 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 5: a good sign for him as well. But it also 467 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 5: makes sense that it takes a bit for him to 468 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 5: warm up because maybe he's not as used to being 469 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 5: around all sorts of other people in the same way 470 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 5: that a child who wasn't born during those early days 471 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 5: of the pandemic might have been right. I remember that 472 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 5: happened with me as well. My oldest was three and 473 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 5: a half when the pandemic started, so she was very 474 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 5: used to being around people and so when we transitioned 475 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 5: back to being around people just she was ready to go, 476 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 5: whereas my other one was a little more shy. And 477 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of wisdom to being shy 478 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 5: as a kid too. I like to think of like, 479 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 5: if I'm shy, I'm just reserved for the people I 480 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 5: feel safe with. And it's okay if it takes some 481 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 5: time to feel safe with people, and that really comes 482 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 5: with parents providing that support and opportunity and knowing that 483 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 5: they have that safe base at home where they can 484 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 5: be fully comfortable with you. 485 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 2: Does it help with separation anxiety? If you do have 486 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 2: babysitters or other caregivers or grandparents looking after your child 487 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 2: without you there from a younger age, does that help 488 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: long term or it's really depend on the child. 489 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 5: I think it really depends on the child. And I 490 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 5: think no matter how many people there are, it really 491 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,479 Speaker 5: does come down to having that relationship with those people. 492 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 5: So if you have a younger child and you have 493 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 5: the ability to, let's say, have a grandparent or an 494 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 5: aunt or an uncle, or a babysitter who you can 495 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 5: do that matchmaking process I was talking about earlier, and 496 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 5: help your child develop a bit of a relationship with them. 497 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 5: Then I think that's great. Then they can have someone 498 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 5: else kind of in their village of people that they're 499 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 5: they have that close relationship with that can watch them 500 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 5: and take care of them. But I don't think it's 501 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 5: necessarily about the quantity of people who can take care 502 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 5: of them. It's about like, who else can they have 503 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 5: that relationship with. And for many kids sometimes going to 504 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 5: preschool or daycare or kindergarten, that's the first time when 505 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 5: they make that other relationship. And so that's why it 506 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 5: takes a little bit of time. But as the parent 507 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 5: continues to match make and talk positively about the teacher 508 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 5: and show them that they like the teacher and all 509 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 5: of these things, it usually does come with time. 510 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Now, if Lucky is having a conversation with 511 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: his girls on Sunday, oh going back to school on Monday, 512 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 2: you're not going to cry. I mean, you're knowing what 513 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: can Lucky do to help himself? 514 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 6: So Lockie, tell me about the Sunday conversation. 515 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 5: Is it more like your daughters they just don't want 516 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 5: to go to school on Monday, or they're sad the 517 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 5: weekends over what's going on with that conversation. 518 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 3: I'll probably a bit of both, just because it's so new, 519 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 3: But no, it's it's probably just more that classic work 520 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: knowing that the week's starting again, and it's you know, 521 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: they're still exhausted. They've been so tired, which is a 522 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: great thing, but it's all just so new. But it's 523 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 3: more just they kind of say it in a half 524 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: funny way, but you can also see that it's like, 525 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we've got to back this up again. 526 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've had your lovely weekend together and now 527 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: separation starts to happen again for the week. 528 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 6: And there are they five as well. 529 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 5: Yes, it's amazing that they can even explain that to you, 530 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 5: that they're feeling like it's Sunday and I don't want 531 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 5: to go back on Monday. And when my kids say that, 532 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 5: I just like to validate that emotion for them and 533 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 5: just be like, hey, yeah, honestly, I'm kind of feeling 534 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 5: the same, like it's hard to want to go back 535 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 5: to work on a Monday and we've just had such 536 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 5: a nice weekend together. Yeah, it's not really about trying 537 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: to fix it or trying to you know, find a 538 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 5: positive spin on it. I think it's okay to just 539 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 5: let them feel that way and at the same time 540 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 5: be like, and you know, this is our plan for tomorrow, 541 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 5: and we can do it even though it feels hard, 542 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 5: And as soon as we wake up and we get 543 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 5: back into routine, it'll be Monday, and you know, and 544 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 5: it's going to feel okay, and we're going to do 545 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 5: it because we can do it together. But I think 546 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 5: you know, parents often and myself included, feel like we 547 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 5: want to solve all of our problems and like keep 548 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 5: our kids happy, and sometimes it just is tricky, and 549 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 5: so it's okay to say that, especially on a Sunday. 550 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: Sundays is separation anxiety. If your child is not able 551 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: to go to sleep without you in the room and 552 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: you're leaving in the room upsets your child. Is that 553 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 2: a form of separation anxiety or is that just your 554 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: child just wants you around and wants to cuddle the Yeah, 555 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: but both. 556 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that's another really common normal form 557 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 5: of separation that kids have and similar to what we were 558 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 5: talking about at school, where it makes sense right, their 559 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 5: whole world, their whole life is they're connected with you, 560 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 5: and they're used to being together with you, and then 561 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 5: all of a sudden, at bedtime, you're like, okay, you 562 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 5: have to go to sleep now, and in their heads 563 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 5: they're like, wait, I have to be in my bed 564 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 5: alone all night, like someone's taking care of me all 565 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 5: day long. I don't know how to exist by myself. 566 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 5: And then that similar feeling of kind of franticness comes 567 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 5: up and they try and keep you close, and at 568 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 5: bedtime it's really if we want kids to be able 569 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 5: to sleep in their beds without us there, it's actually 570 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 5: the same things where it's like they need to know 571 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 5: that we're taking care of them even when we're not 572 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 5: right beside them, and they might need little ways to 573 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 5: feel connected to us even when they're in their bed. 574 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 5: So I do things similar to daycare where I might 575 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 5: explain to my kids the idea of an invisible string, 576 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 5: which there's a great book on this, where there's an 577 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 5: invisible string that connects us. If you ever miss me, 578 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 5: you can pull it and I'll feel it and we're 579 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 5: still connected for some kids they hate that idea, but 580 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 5: for other kids, they really resonate family pictures beside the bed. 581 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 5: If you do want to transition your child to falling 582 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 5: asleep by themselves, doing some check ins at first, where 583 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 5: you can even just bring stuffies from other places in 584 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 5: your house and be like, You'll know I checked on 585 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 5: you because I'm going to bring you a stuffy and 586 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 5: tuck them in right beside you. Those are always to 587 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 5: help your child feel connected with you so that they 588 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 5: can sleep well. 589 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: If I mean, if we use this daycare or school 590 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: as an example, and the separation that that anxiety isn't 591 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: really improving over time. As parents, how long do you wait? 592 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: When do you know is a parent okay, we actually 593 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 2: need some extra support here, We need some help. And 594 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 2: I guess what sort of help can a parent find yourself? 595 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: You can find you, they can go to you. 596 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 5: Yes, that is something that I help parents with all 597 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 5: the time, both in my private practice and also through 598 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 5: Nurtured First as well. Is that kind of pervasive separation 599 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 5: anxiety that goes beyond the first few weeks of school, 600 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 5: Let's say, and you're trying the match making, You're trying 601 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 5: to bridge that separation you're focusing on the reunion instead 602 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 5: of the goodbye, like all of those things that I 603 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 5: talked about, and the child still. 604 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 6: Is struggling all day. 605 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 5: That's often when people will come to me and be like, Okay, 606 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 5: well you know what else is going on? And so 607 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 5: then we'll look at the bigger picture, like let's say 608 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 5: the relationship that they have with their parents. Is there 609 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 5: anything going on? There is there stress in the home 610 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 5: sometimes if the home is really stressful or a new 611 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 5: baby was just added to the home, like there's something 612 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 5: going on that's making the child cling harder to their parents. 613 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 5: We also look at the relationship the child has with 614 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 5: the teacher. Sometimes we get curious and it's just not 615 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 5: a great match between the teacher and the child, and 616 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 5: the child can kind of feel that and that's making 617 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 5: it really tough at school. I mean, there's so many 618 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 5: potential reasons. Sometimes kids are just so busy, you know, 619 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 5: overscheduled and they don't have any break, and being at 620 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 5: school all day, it's just it's too long for them 621 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 5: at too young of an age. So we really do 622 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 5: have to get curious about what exactly is going on 623 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 5: when it's pervasive and it just keeps going. So I 624 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 5: know that's not like a clear cut answer, but hopefully 625 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 5: that's helpful. 626 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, I guess it is that anything that 627 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: goes on for an extended period of time, and if, 628 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: as you said, if you've tried all these options and 629 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: these new tools they're not working, then it's time then 630 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: to go and seek some professional. 631 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 5: Help, even if the parent just feels like they want 632 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 5: some more support, like they don't have to wait a 633 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 5: long time, if they just feel like they're just really 634 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 5: struggling with it. Or sometimes when I'm working with parents, 635 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 5: I find kind of locky what you're saying, Like the 636 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 5: parent themselves is struggling so much with the separation, and 637 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 5: that's coming into why the child is struggling, because the 638 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 5: parent's not feeling confident in their decisions. So it really 639 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 5: depends on the parents. But if they want to get 640 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 5: support by all means, I think finding a therapist can 641 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 5: be a really helpful way to get some support around this, 642 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 5: and then we. 643 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: Can look for some support for Lockie too. 644 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 3: Been very very good, talk about it very positively. 645 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 6: I think Larkie. 646 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 5: Speaks from most parents. I mean, my husband and I 647 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 5: were both the mass whenever kids would start any tape 648 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 5: for school. 649 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 3: It's just it's a big moment, isn't it. We do 650 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: little drawings for the lunchboxes. And day one we've got 651 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: the drawings and the just the stress of the morning, 652 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 3: which I felt bad about. So they got them day too. 653 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, they get an extra drawing. 654 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: No, just the same one from She's. 655 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: Got two little Lego figurines in his lunch box which 656 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 2: he made at the Lego store. Of he made one 657 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: of myself, Lauren and him, and so he's taken the 658 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: two of us, not box. 659 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 3: No, No, he stays home. 660 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he put his his little Lego. He had 661 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: lunch and he put his little Lego figurines on the 662 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: table and the kid next to him said he can't 663 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 2: bring toys to school, and he said, they're not toys. 664 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: The Lego had an argument with this, and I said, 665 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: what's your friend's name? I don't know, I don't know. 666 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: I just told him you can't. I think that went 667 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: very well. 668 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: Oh. 669 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 6: I love it. I love the confidence. It's not a toys. 670 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: Legos leg that's my parents haunch. 671 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 5: That is such a great way to bridge separation. I've 672 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 5: never thought of Lego. I love that. That's so good. 673 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 5: And the notes in the lunch box that's so good too, 674 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 5: that's amazing. 675 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 6: Did you draw the picture? Lock you? Did someone else 676 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 6: draw it? Or what's what's the story of the lunch. 677 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: We draw them? I mean I trace them. I just 678 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 3: I just admitted that. But yeah, because I travel quite 679 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 3: a bit, that's become a thing. But now it's out 680 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 3: of control. Now it's you've started something on a Sunday night. 681 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: It's can I have this and don't color it in? 682 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 3: But do like an outline color. There's just too many. 683 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 3: So now we've had to go back and say, actually, no, 684 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 3: this is something that I love doing for you, So 685 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to surprise you with what I draw rather 686 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 3: than here's the list, Eddie, one of these. It's going 687 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 3: to be up all night drawing Tracy. Tracy. 688 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: Actually yeah, Tracy, but no, it is. 689 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 3: Really nice and they love it, and I like, yah, 690 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 3: I'm sure of them opening their lunch box and going 691 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 3: that's not what I wanted to. 692 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think a lunch box and Locke's tears 693 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: come sweat sand which. 694 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 5: I'm sure you both have some great ideas just of 695 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 5: bridging the separation just from traveling. Like I know when 696 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 5: my husband used to travel all the time for work. Like, 697 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 5: we just had to get super creative of these ways 698 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 5: that we can connect with the kids, and they were gone. 699 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 6: So it sounds like you're using that at school. I mean, 700 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 6: that's great. 701 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: I really love that teacher one too. Then to just 702 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 3: find out those little things about them. 703 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going on a deep dive. Well, actually I'm 704 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: not great at that. Lauren is excellent at the deep 705 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: dive the stalks, so that will be a good job. 706 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 6: Get laurenswer that. 707 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: She will love that. That's good. I don't know how 708 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: she finds people all the time. It's quite anyway, that's 709 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 2: a whole jest. It has been so wonderful to chat 710 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: with you, and you've given some really great insights into 711 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 2: separation anxiety, but also then some tools that we can 712 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: use as parents and at any age when our children 713 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: are going through this. So we're very very thankful for 714 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: you coming on. We will talk today. So thank you 715 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: for chatting with us. 716 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 6: Thank you, it's been my pleasure. It's always so nice to. 717 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 5: Chat with both of you, and this is a topic 718 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 5: I love to talk about, So thank you so much. 719 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: Great chat with Jess. Yeah, I really like that idea. 720 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: I know we spoke about it, but just to reiterate 721 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: the idea of understanding learning about your teacher. Yeah, and 722 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 2: I love it how the teachers that she talks to, 723 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: actually she makes them give that information to parents and 724 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: that's really helpful. So you don't need to go to 725 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: full stalker. No. 726 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: Oh, there's great. And I think I don't know if 727 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 3: that is becoming more common too, where teachers in the 728 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 3: school send out. We got a little pack of something, 729 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 3: but just something to say. 730 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, because your child needs to know that you trust 731 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 2: the teacher and so that you know something about them. 732 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: You just dropped him off to some stranger who you 733 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 2: don't know anything about. I think that's really interesting. You know, 734 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 2: it was really funny when she said matchmaker. You know, 735 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: it reminded me of when we first started as Wiggles 736 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 2: and you had to go You went on a singles No, no, no, 737 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: I was like your wing man. 738 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 3: You were a very good wid always have been. 739 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 2: Why I think was then? 740 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: Was it trying to do singles night? It was around 741 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 3: the bachelotte. I was trying to really have Anthony. I 742 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 3: just it was a disaster. 743 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: You had to stand up there. You and I had 744 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 2: to stand out there in the podium being paraded. I 745 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 2: don't know anyway that's with the matchmaking. Thank you reminded 746 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 2: me of that, very awkward to our lives. 747 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 3: I needed help, you don't know. Cried when you left. 748 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 3: Please don't leave me here. 749 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 2: It's funny, is that I'm a crier? Okay, I have 750 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 2: a good but I haven't cried with the ash, your 751 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 2: starting school or anything, all right. I actually I've felt emotional, 752 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: like ID feel it started to well up, but I 753 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: kind of have stopped myself. I'm just bottling it up 754 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 2: and suppressing all my emotions. I think that's the healthiest 755 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 2: way to go. 756 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: But you're not wanting to show him to You're being 757 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 3: very brave. 758 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, very brave, very brave. 759 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 3: Well, if you would like to hear more from Jess vanderwer, 760 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 3: you can find her work at natured first dot com. 761 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 2: Or nurtured first dot com, whichever you'd like to at 762 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: nurchuredfirst dot com or at nurtured First on Instagram, carry on. 763 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 3: Lucky, thank you, Simon. Nurtured Jess also has a course 764 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 3: called Separations and Goodbyes, and a range of other parenting 765 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: courses and resources. Through nurtured First, not natured First. We 766 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 3: will pop a link at the show notes if you 767 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 3: want to dig deeper. 768 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, dig deep everyone, and if you want to support 769 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: the show, digg even deeper because you can rate and 770 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: review us. So it goes a long way. Because what 771 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: it does, Lockie, is what I've learned. It helps other 772 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: parents find wiggle talk, Yes, and that can only be 773 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 2: a good thing. 774 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 3: It can thank you for listening to wiggle Talk by Podcast. 775 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: For Parents, Nature or Nurture. See you next time. Bye 776 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: bye bye