Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.
Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,
Speaker 2: the eleventh of July.
Speaker 1: I'm zara, I'm sam.
Speaker 2: Should NDIS funds be able to be used on sexual services?
Speaker 2: That's a question being debated this week after NDIS Minister
Speaker 2: Bill Shorten said access to those services would be removed
Speaker 2: if draft legislation is passed in the Senate. In today's
Speaker 2: deep dive, we're going to explain why the government is
Speaker 2: making changes to the NDIS, the arguments for removing access
Speaker 2: to those sexual services, and why some disability advocates are
Speaker 2: against the move. But first, here's what's making news today.
Speaker 1: The federal government has announced a new scorecard system to
Speaker 1: rate employment providers for people with disabilities. The measure services
Speaker 1: will be given a public rating out of three based
Speaker 1: on their quality, efficiency and effectiveness. Performance will be reviewed
Speaker 1: every three months. Social Services Minister Amanda Rishworth says she
Speaker 1: wants to see quote continual improvement from employers. The measure
Speaker 1: is aimed at boosting employment opportunities.
Speaker 2: Two men are face court over smuggling more than two
Speaker 2: hundred and forty kilos of drugs into Australia concealed inside
Speaker 2: furniture and appliances. Federal police sees two hundred and eleven
Speaker 2: kilos of cocaine and thirty kilos of ketamine across multiple searches.
Speaker 2: The drugs are believed to be linked to an international
Speaker 2: crime syndicate and have a combined estimated street value of
Speaker 2: over seventy five million dollars. The men, aged thirty nine
Speaker 2: and twenty three, appeared in court in Sydney yesterday. Police
Speaker 2: say they're facing a maximum sentence of life in prison.
Speaker 1: Tropical storm Beryl has killed at least eight people and
Speaker 1: caused major dammage in the US states of Texas and Louisiana.
Speaker 1: The hurricane battered parts of the Caribbean last week before
Speaker 1: moving north, bringing gal force winds, heavy rain, and severe
Speaker 1: flooding to America's southern states, where millions still remain without power.
Speaker 1: It's been downgraded to a post tropical cyclone as it
Speaker 1: moves northeast, with intense rainfall expected.
Speaker 2: And today's good news, a man in the US has
Speaker 2: received a new voice box in one of the first
Speaker 2: successful transplants of its kind after being diagnosed with larynx cancer.
Speaker 2: Treatment meant the man lost his voice and could only
Speaker 2: breathe through a hole in his neck. Four months after
Speaker 2: an experimental larynx transplant led by the Mayo Clinic, he's
Speaker 2: now able to speak, swallow, and breathe. The patient signed
Speaker 2: up for the trial and the hopes of being able
Speaker 2: to read bedtime stories to his granddaughter. People with disability
Speaker 2: will no longer be able to use National Disability Insurance Scheme.
Speaker 2: So that's NDAA funding to access what's called sexual services,
Speaker 2: and that is under a series of reforms to the system.
Speaker 2: It was confirmed this week by NDIS Minister Bill Shorten,
Speaker 2: who said on Sky News that sex work would be
Speaker 2: removed from the list of approved services if the proposed
Speaker 2: legislation to quote tidy up the scheme passes Parliament.
Speaker 1: This is a topic that when I've been reading online
Speaker 1: about it over the last couple of days, has really
Speaker 1: strong views on both sides. I want to go into
Speaker 1: what those views are. But before we do, I mean
Speaker 1: tidy up the NDIS. There's a couple of terms being
Speaker 1: thrown around. We need some clarity on give me some
Speaker 1: context on the actual NDIS itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. The NDIS, as I said, is the
Speaker 2: National Disability Insurance Scheme. It provides support and services for
Speaker 2: Australians with disability. The way it works is that individuals
Speaker 2: are allocated a personal budget and that's calculated on what
Speaker 2: is reasonable or necessary for each person. Funding includes access
Speaker 2: to things like community services, transport, vehicle modifications and help
Speaker 2: with kind of data day activities. It was launched in
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen and it was completely rolled out only in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. There are now over six hundred and ten
Speaker 2: thousand Australians to receive support from the NDIS.
Speaker 1: And I get an interesting perspective on this story because
Speaker 1: I'm married to somebody who writes NDIS reports and I
Speaker 1: kind of see how much paperwork goes into the back
Speaker 1: end of these. So I have sex work services been
Speaker 1: available then for people who get through the qualification process
Speaker 1: and do qualify for the NDIS.
Speaker 2: So not the whole time. Specialized sex services have been
Speaker 2: available through the NDIS since twenty twenty and that was
Speaker 2: the result actually of a court case that was brought
Speaker 2: by a forty year old woman with multiple sclerosis who
Speaker 2: was denied funding for a trained sex worker. She then
Speaker 2: launched a legal challenge to that rejection and she argued
Speaker 2: that the NDIS Act doesn't explicitly exclude sex services. Ultimately,
Speaker 2: the Federal court ruled in her favor, and it found
Speaker 2: that there was no implied exclusion of such activities, and
Speaker 2: in our opinion, the better view is that they are
Speaker 2: intended to be included. So that being a direct quote
Speaker 2: from that Federal court decision.
Speaker 1: Can you give me a sense of like how prevalent
Speaker 1: this is in the NDAs, Like, is this rolled out
Speaker 1: to everybody?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that's a really important thing to focus
Speaker 2: on because I think when we talk about stories like
Speaker 2: this on a national stage and people have very strong opinions,
Speaker 2: it kind of seems like it's widespread, it's everywhere. That's
Speaker 2: absolutely not the case. So I do want to give
Speaker 2: you a sense of the numbers. And that's just going
Speaker 2: off Bill Shorten, As I said, who's the NDIS miniesot
Speaker 2: what he has said this week? He told the ABC
Speaker 2: that there have been two hundred and twenty eight requests
Speaker 2: for sexual activity support in the twelve months to the
Speaker 2: end of April, but that he and I'm going to
Speaker 2: quote here, said none of them were granted.
Speaker 1: Right, So in a pool of six hundred and ten
Speaker 1: thousand people receiving NDIS funding. There were two hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty eight requests and we don't think, according to the minister,
Speaker 1: that any of them were granted. Correct, So why is
Speaker 1: it a topic for us to talk about today.
Speaker 2: So the reason that we're talking about it is because
Speaker 2: the government is trying to pass this legislation through the Senate,
Speaker 2: and that legislation is kind of a suite of reforms
Speaker 2: that's broadly aimed at cutting costs associated with the NDIS.
Speaker 2: The federal budget has predicted that NDIS costs will rise
Speaker 2: from forty four point three billion dollars this year to
Speaker 2: more than ninety billion dollars by the end of the decade.
Speaker 2: That is a huge, huge spend when it comes to
Speaker 2: the government's budget. And so right now the Albanese government
Speaker 2: is looking at those costs and trying to figure out
Speaker 2: ways to bring down those costs across the board, and
Speaker 2: that's why they've introduced this legislation that I said is
Speaker 2: currently in the Senate, and that's aiming to save fourteen
Speaker 2: point four billion dollars over the next four years. And
Speaker 2: the way that the government is looking at really bringing
Speaker 2: down those costs is by doing a number of things.
Speaker 2: That includes streamlining the goods and services that people can
Speaker 2: access with NDIS funding.
Speaker 1: And so if we zoom out a little bit and
Speaker 1: look at the broader context of where this discussion is
Speaker 1: taking place, I remember in the budget address by Jim
Speaker 1: Chalmers there was discussions about waste in the program and
Speaker 1: an aging population and there's clearly those projections you've just
Speaker 1: taken us through and they're kind of trying to tighten
Speaker 1: the belt.
Speaker 2: Here exactly, and that's the context that this conversation has emerged.
Speaker 2: So Bill Shorten, as I said, confirmed this week that
Speaker 2: sex services don't pass the test, is what he said directly,
Speaker 2: and that they will be cut from this NDIS funding
Speaker 2: as part of these cost saving measures. I'll quote him here.
Speaker 2: He said, what we do want to do is make
Speaker 2: sure people have the ability to get things that are
Speaker 2: reasonable and necessary. The rules have been a bit loose
Speaker 2: at the margins, I think for a number of reasons.
Speaker 2: That's been picked up across the board by the media,
Speaker 2: by other politicians and has become a bit of a
Speaker 2: focus in politics. This week we heard from Barnaby Joyce,
Speaker 2: who is the Coalition. He made his position pretty clear
Speaker 2: this week and We included this in a newsletter this week.
Speaker 2: He said, you don't want to pay for someone to
Speaker 2: have a wild all night between the sheets on the
Speaker 2: tax payers ticket, right.
Speaker 1: So there's very clear perspectives from within the halls of
Speaker 1: Parliament House in Canberra as to why sexual services should
Speaker 1: be excluded from the NDAs in this effort to cut
Speaker 1: down how much this program costs. But that's only one
Speaker 1: side of the argument. The other side of the argument
Speaker 1: is why people think it's a necessary part of the program.
Speaker 1: What are those arguments?
Speaker 2: There are a couple. I'll start with what Women with
Speaker 2: Disabilities Australia has said. So they believe that the NDIS
Speaker 2: should support the sexual expression and autonomy of people with disability.
Speaker 2: They said, I'm quoting here, people with disabilities should be
Speaker 2: able to access funded supports that enable us to realize
Speaker 2: our rights to sexual health, information, sexual pleasure, expression, association, freedom,
Speaker 2: autonomy and self determination. And I think the realizing our
Speaker 2: rights part is really interesting. There are a lot of
Speaker 2: comments when we uploaded this story to Instagram about people
Speaker 2: talking about access to sex and access to safe sex
Speaker 2: as a right. So that's something that's been reflected here
Speaker 2: by this advocacy group. I think if we take a
Speaker 2: step back more generally, some of the arguments that are
Speaker 2: emerging is advocates pointing to examples of people with psychosocial
Speaker 2: disabilities who learn about safe and respectful relationships in these settings.
Speaker 2: And if you're removing that ability, what is left Where
Speaker 2: can they be learning how to have safe sex, how
Speaker 2: to have respectful relationships, all of these things. So that's
Speaker 2: another argument. Another one, and I saw this again a
Speaker 2: lot in the comment section, is about what advocates believe
Speaker 2: is a double standard. Ok. So, viagra, which is an
Speaker 2: erectile dysfunction pill, is supported by the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme.
Speaker 1: So that basically means that indirectly taxpayers are subsidizing cost
Speaker 1: of viagra.
Speaker 2: Exactly, so the PBS subsidizes that drug, And the logic
Speaker 2: that follows for these advocates is that if taxpayers are
Speaker 2: subsidizing that cost to help men have better sex, then
Speaker 2: why are people with disability treated any differently?
Speaker 1: Interesting in the.
Speaker 2: Walls of Parliament, you said before that we have got
Speaker 2: this pretty clear image. The Greens depart from that view.
Speaker 2: So we heard from the Green spokesperson Jordan steel John
Speaker 2: this week. He said that the reforms are deeply unpopular
Speaker 2: and damaging, and that they fail to acknowledge the needs
Speaker 2: of people with disability, said Minister Shorten is supposed to
Speaker 2: be supporting disabled people and their families, not cutting their services.
Speaker 1: I think the other view that is worth mentioning is
Speaker 1: some of the content that I've read that represent the
Speaker 1: view of people who work in this space specifically trained
Speaker 1: to facilitate good experiences with people with a disability, and
Speaker 1: their view of the fact that it takes sensitivity and
Speaker 1: it takes particular skills to sure that those people have
Speaker 1: positive experiences. I think that's a perspective worth including as well.
Speaker 2: Definitely worth including, and definitely a really interesting topic. I
Speaker 2: guess where the response to that lies is should that
Speaker 2: be taxpayer funded or should that be privately funded by
Speaker 2: the individual themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really interesting topic playing out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just keep having that number in my mind of
Speaker 1: the under three hundred requests that you said had been
Speaker 1: filed in the last twelve months in this program of
Speaker 1: over six hundred thousand people.
Speaker 2: Me too, and I had this kind of inner dialogue
Speaker 2: about whether we should do a podcast episode on this,
Speaker 2: but I wanted.
Speaker 1: To ask you like, yeah, why are we covering it?
Speaker 2: The place I got to and I think some people
Speaker 2: might criticize this, and I think that that's fair. The
Speaker 2: place I got to is that a lot of people
Speaker 2: have seen headlines about this, and a lot of people
Speaker 2: are going to see headlines about this, and I think
Speaker 2: that taking the time to explain it is really important
Speaker 2: here so that people don't come to conclusions that aren't
Speaker 2: based on fact. But there is a lot to be
Speaker 2: said about the fact that, you know, the NDIS does
Speaker 2: so much good, It is so important. There are lots
Speaker 2: of people who aren't getting what they need right now,
Speaker 2: and perhaps you know, focusing the media cycle and focusing
Speaker 2: you know, political attention on this is taking away from
Speaker 2: the attention that is needed for so many people across
Speaker 2: the board, and also at times could be distracting from
Speaker 2: that great work.
Speaker 1: Okay, and just quickly, just so we all have clarity
Speaker 1: on it. This is still yet to pass.
Speaker 2: Correct, So the bill is in front of the Senate
Speaker 2: at the moment. The Greens and Coalition voted to refer
Speaker 2: it and its amendments to a committee for a review.
Speaker 2: But that's a fairly standard thing that just means interrogating
Speaker 2: it a bit more. We did hear from Barnaby Joyce
Speaker 2: that despite voting to have that bill reviewed, the Coalition
Speaker 2: is likely to support it. If that does happen, then
Speaker 2: the legislation will become law. Anything can happen, who knows,
Speaker 2: but it does look fairly likely that it will pass
Speaker 2: the Senate.
Speaker 1: Thanks for taking us through that, Zara. A very interesting
Speaker 1: topic about a kind of area of policy that has
Speaker 1: so many complexities and I'm glad we could explore some
Speaker 1: of those perspectives and thank you for joining us today
Speaker 1: on the Daily ODS. Really appreciate you supporting independent media
Speaker 1: in Australia, particularly youth media and what's been a difficult
Speaker 1: couple of weeks for youth media across Australia. If you
Speaker 1: enjoy this podcast, I'd love if you could just throw
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Speaker 1: to send them some good stuff. We'll be back again tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Until then, have a good day. My name is Lily
Speaker 1: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkuttin woman from
Speaker 1: Gadigol country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is
Speaker 1: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays
Speaker 1: respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations.
Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
Speaker 1: both past and present.