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Speaker 1: We do know that the COLP is planning to well

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Speaker 1: get the ball rolling when it comes to moving a

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Speaker 1: motion of no confidence against the government when Parliament sits today.

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Speaker 1: Now my understanding is that it's not going to be debated,

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Speaker 1: of course this week. They have to bring the motion forward.

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Speaker 1: It then wouldn't even happen until March. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio to give us a bit of background,

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Speaker 1: I think and explain how it works is former politician

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Speaker 1: many of you will know, Jerry would Good morning to you, Jerry.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now Jerry. In terms of this vote of no confidence?

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Speaker 1: Have we had many of them in the Northern Territory before?

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Speaker 3: I think only two people with a memory going further

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Speaker 3: back may may know of another one. But no, there

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Speaker 3: was the one in my time with Paul Henderson, and

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Speaker 3: there was one that Michael going to put through against

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Speaker 3: the Giles government, and I think two thousand and nineteen

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Speaker 3: or eighteen somewhere there, Yeah, nineteen, I think it might

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Speaker 3: have been.

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Speaker 2: It might have been earlier than that that day, I

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Speaker 2: might have but out there now.

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Speaker 1: The one that happened while Paul Henderson was in power

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Speaker 1: was a really interesting one because you were actually required

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Speaker 1: then to sort of, you know, to determine the balance

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Speaker 1: of power, weren't you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was probably one of the hardest times in

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Speaker 3: my life in politics. I were criticized from some quarters

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Speaker 3: and probably praised from a few other quarters. But it

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Speaker 3: was a very difficult time, and without going through all

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Speaker 3: the reasoning.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons, which.

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Speaker 3: Is a problem that the CLP might just say, for arguments,

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Speaker 3: say they won the vote of no confidence, is that

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Speaker 3: in my case, I would have had the form a

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Speaker 3: government not only with the CLP at that time, but

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Speaker 3: with also Alison Anderson, which would have mean that I

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Speaker 3: would have had to come to some sort of agreement

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Speaker 3: with her about various issues.

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Speaker 2: And I actually didn't think that we were going to meet.

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Speaker 3: And agree on many things at that time, and I

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Speaker 3: thought that would more that would be an unstable government

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Speaker 3: as well. But that's only part of the reason. That's

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Speaker 3: people don't say that's the main reason. There are plenty

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Speaker 3: of other reasons. But the COLP, if it say, for arguments,

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Speaker 3: they did win that vote, then you would have to

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Speaker 3: have a minority government because hasn't got a majority of

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Speaker 3: its own party in parliament, so we'd have to add

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Speaker 3: the three independence and get someone else to join, and

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Speaker 3: they would have to agree to form some form of coalition.

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Speaker 1: And this is sort of the very interesting thing that

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Speaker 1: you know, last week obviously, when the opposition leader said

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Speaker 1: that she was going to be doing this, you go, well,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that are incredibly frustrated

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Speaker 1: with the Northern Territory government's response to crime. But a

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Speaker 1: vote of no confidence then is, you know, is a

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Speaker 1: whole extra step. And I know that we've had plenty

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Speaker 1: of people saying, hey, I support this, so I think

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Speaker 1: it needs to happen. But talk me through what the

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Speaker 1: process actually has to be when it's you know, in parliament, Jarah.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think, as I think Leah said the other day,

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Speaker 3: you've got to wait so many days before you can

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Speaker 3: introduce it.

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Speaker 2: Then there's a debate on it, and then well a

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Speaker 2: vote on.

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Speaker 3: The problem is that the numbers aren't there, and so

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Speaker 3: it ends up like I suppose any other debate you

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Speaker 3: can have in parliament, because there are other ways of

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Speaker 3: doing things and looking vote of no confidence as a

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Speaker 3: serious vote. And obviously by saying you're going to have

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Speaker 3: a vote of no confidence, you're saying to the government,

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Speaker 3: we think you're in big trouble and you're not doing

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Speaker 3: your job.

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Speaker 2: But there are a couple other ways.

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Speaker 3: For instance, during question time, and what governments used to

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Speaker 3: what oppositions used to do, is you'd see them line

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Speaker 3: up a whole series of questions which would have a

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Speaker 3: particular flavor, and towards the end of question time, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes in the middle of the question time they stop

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Speaker 3: for everything and say we're going to censer the government.

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Speaker 3: I used to get annoyed that because I couldn't ask

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Speaker 3: any more questions of my own because they were running

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Speaker 3: their own agenda. But what normally happened was government would

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Speaker 3: accept that sense of motion and then you would have

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Speaker 3: a debate on the sensu motion. Now the government still

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Speaker 3: had some control because they could get up an amend

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Speaker 3: the sense of motion to turn it on upside down,

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Speaker 3: and you'd be arguing that things were terrific, when the

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Speaker 3: oppositions saying things weren't. But that's one area that the

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Speaker 3: opposition can get up and debate serious issues.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that the files government really haven't allowed

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Speaker 1: to happen on the place.

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Speaker 3: And that's what partly worries me that the whole process

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Speaker 3: in government nowadays is very tightly controlled by the government.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the saddest thing for me in the

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Speaker 3: way things are the government got rid of scrutiny committees,

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Speaker 3: and scrutiny committee were really important in a unicameral parliament.

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Speaker 3: We copied what happened in Queensland. In fact, Natasha Files

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Speaker 3: is a great supporter of the Scrutiny Committee. When you

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Speaker 3: read the speech when they came in and they scrapped them,

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Speaker 3: and they were way of including the community in the

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Speaker 3: decision making process and opening up Parliament to the people,

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Speaker 3: which is what Labour's policy was opening out Parliament's people.

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Speaker 3: That's gone exactly the other way. They're closing Parliament to

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Speaker 3: the people by reducing the opportunities to do things. Now

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Speaker 3: one of the other ones, and people might remember that

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Speaker 3: we did have a Council of Territory Cooperation. Now it

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Speaker 3: worked for a while and it had its problems, but

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Speaker 3: it was trying to join both sides of Parliament together

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Speaker 3: to look at issues and it was able to do it.

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Speaker 2: This is a different thing. It was able to do

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Speaker 2: it on its own motion.

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Speaker 3: It did not need approval from the government, or did

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Speaker 3: not approval from the legs of Assembly could get that

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Speaker 3: if they wanted to. But we now have a Public

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Speaker 3: Amounts Committee, which was a part of that was changed

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Speaker 3: to copy the Council of Territory Cooperation, except it couldn't

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Speaker 3: do it unless the government allowed it to do it.

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Speaker 3: So it could look at anything it wanted to. But

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Speaker 3: if the government said, well, we don't want that to happen,

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Speaker 3: then it didn't happen. So the Public Accounts Committee theoretically

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Speaker 3: could look at, say, an issue that's around at the

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Speaker 3: moment's a bit of issues about landing clearing, for instance,

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Speaker 3: and the governments and what the government could do say well,

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Speaker 3: we're going to put this issue out to the Public

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Speaker 3: Accounts Committee, because it doesn't look just at accounts if

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Speaker 3: you read what they're allowed to do. So we could

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Speaker 3: get in the part Ustill Board could get in, the

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Speaker 3: Environment Center could get in, some of the media who

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Speaker 3: could get in, a range of farmers, a whole group

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Speaker 3: of people could be asked to present themselves to their

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Speaker 3: Public Accounts Committee, had public forums to talk about the issue.

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Speaker 3: Now that's the actual that's to me is really what

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Speaker 3: Parliament's about. It's including the people. It's discussing an issue

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Speaker 3: that is a topic that's important, and it's allowing people

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Speaker 3: to hear both sides of the argument and actually try

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Speaker 3: and get to the truth. Is this the media beat

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Speaker 3: up or is actually a real issue, So.

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Speaker 2: We're not allowing that yet. It also, governments can make statements.

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Speaker 3: Now you look in the Standing Orders ament, minister used

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Speaker 3: to get up and make statements. They used to make

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Speaker 3: them off and sometimes they used to do it so

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Speaker 3: they could fill in time when they didn't have a

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Speaker 3: lot of work to do in Parliament. But a minister

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Speaker 3: for say, agriculture might get up and talk about the

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Speaker 3: cotton industry, might get up talk about mining, might talk

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Speaker 3: about something else, social crime, and they would make that statement.

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Speaker 3: They can talk for quite a while and then everybody

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Speaker 3: in Parliament actually can give their opinion on that statement. Now,

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Speaker 3: I don't know whether that's happened very often, but that

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Speaker 3: is a way that then you create debate. But the

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Speaker 3: government's got to be brave enough to say, well, we're

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Speaker 3: going to put this issue out and will allow the

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Speaker 3: parliament to debate it.

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Speaker 2: Because to meet parliament.

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Speaker 3: I remember myself looking at pictures of the Roman You

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Speaker 3: know the senators all in there, I call them their sheets,

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Speaker 3: but you know they used their parliament to debate issues,

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Speaker 3: and we really need to make sure that our parliament

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Speaker 3: is open to discuss in these difficult issues.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't think it does so much.

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Speaker 1: I think that is such an important point to make, Jerry,

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Speaker 1: because that's people feel like they're not being listened to

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Speaker 1: at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And that's why you had the scrutiny committees.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're involved in I'm just trying to think

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Speaker 3: the issues that.

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Speaker 2: We looked at SI hit program.

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Speaker 3: So we went out and looked at all the issues

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Speaker 3: about how many you know, the houses where they are built,

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Speaker 3: whether they are on Groode Island, whether what I were

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Speaker 3: at Man and greeted. We went out and investigated all

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Speaker 3: those things. We looked at the remember the cattle issue

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Speaker 3: at Mataranka. We had public meetings at Mataranka. People able

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Speaker 3: to come to that meeting and say what they thought. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there was a blackout with the gas power stations lost there. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that was and that was brought on by the

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Speaker 3: opposition who didn't like the Council of Territory cooperation, but

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Speaker 3: when they had an opportunity to use it, they loved it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And so they're the things that I thought that made

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Speaker 3: Parliament vibrant. It wasn't just you know, we sit there

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Speaker 3: and there's better legislation and we go home. You actually

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Speaker 3: included people this in the discussions. Whether you agree with

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Speaker 3: them or not was irrelevant, but you heard people's views.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so just you know, just in sort of

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Speaker 1: closing with the with this vote of no confidence or

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Speaker 1: this motion of no confidence that the COLP is trying

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Speaker 1: to push through with. There does sound like these other

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Speaker 1: options in terms of you know, the Council of Territory

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Speaker 1: cooperation is something that we used to have here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory as well as those select committees. Are

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Speaker 1: there other options inside of parliament? You know, like the

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Speaker 1: matter of public importance? I know you said the sense

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Speaker 1: of motion, but that it does sound like there's other

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Speaker 1: things that the opposition could be doing at this point

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Speaker 1: to make sure that this issue is heard now.

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Speaker 3: Well, matter of public importance is an option. It depends

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Speaker 3: if there are other matters of public importance on a paper,

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Speaker 3: because you only get one. So I know when I

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Speaker 3: had one, I think Lea came around to my door

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Speaker 3: and said, can we have ours before yours so you

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Speaker 3: can do negotiations. So it is an option, and I

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Speaker 3: think the government itself needs to be more able. Why

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Speaker 3: don't you make a statement on the alcohol issues in

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Speaker 3: our springs or alcohol in general, or you know, the

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Speaker 3: crime problems. You've got makea statement and then Leah can

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Speaker 3: get up and make a response, and each member if

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Speaker 3: they want to. And it doesn't always happen as long

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Speaker 3: as government doesn't shorten it, because sometimes they can shorten it.

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Speaker 3: They get an agreement used to happen between the opposition

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Speaker 3: and the government. Sometimes say well it only allowed speakers.

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Speaker 3: I just get annoy you, so we'll hang out. I'd

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Speaker 3: like to speak. Yeah, So I sometimes think they should

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Speaker 3: be open to everybody having an opportunity to speak on

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Speaker 3: those issues.

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Speaker 2: So, yes, there are other ways.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, when you look at it, except for the matter

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Speaker 3: of public importance, the government has some control able what happened.

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Speaker 3: But if the government, as I said, was open and transparent,

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Speaker 3: let the sensor motion run.

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Speaker 2: Let it run.

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Speaker 3: And if you've got the good story that you say

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Speaker 3: you have, explain it to people.

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Speaker 1: Jerry Wood a man of wisdom as always, and that

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Speaker 1: knowledge that we actually need. I really appreciate you coming

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Speaker 1: in this morning. As always, I want to try and

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Speaker 1: catch up with you a little bit more often when

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Speaker 1: Parliament is sitting. I'm keen to have Gary Higgins come

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Speaker 1: on as well if he's keen, and just provide people

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Speaker 1: with that bit of background. I think it's really important

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Speaker 1: for us to sort of get that understanding. You guys

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Speaker 1: have been in there. You've been in there and seen

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Speaker 1: the workings of Parliament for such a long time, and

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Speaker 1: it's good for Territorians to understand exactly what is going on.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, I'll go home and get my feet back

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Speaker 3: on the ground and we we need some more plans

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Speaker 3: out for all this rain.

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Speaker 1: Good on you. Thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: General, I appreciate it. You