1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: This is jem Nation with Jonesyland. Great to see you. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: So I need to talk to you guys about Kanye West. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: There's been a lot happening in the last few days, 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: and it's a very sad, complicated story, and I reckon 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: none of us quite know how we're meant to talk 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: about it. For some context, West, who's now legally known 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: by his nickname Yay, was diagnosed with bipolar after being 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: hospitalized for a psychiatric emergency in twenty sixteen. In the 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: years since, he's spoken a lot about his manic episodes 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: and referred to his bipolar as his superpower, but there 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: have been a number of times when his behavior has 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: been inappropriate and hurtful to the people in his life 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: and his broader audience. I think a turning point for 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 2: me watching him was in twenty twenty when he announced 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: his presidential bid and then he was at a rally 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: and said that he and his wife, Kim Kardashian, had 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: considered having an abortion when she was pregnant with their 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: first child. I just thought that was so uncomfortable and 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: clearly not something that Kim Kardashian had ever wanted to share, 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: and it wasn't long after that that Kim Kardashian filed 21 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: for divorce from him. Ever since, he's oscillated between saying 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: publicly that he wants her back, accusing her of preventing 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: him from seeing his children or her not parenting them properly, 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: and encouraging his fans to harass Pete Davidson, who was 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: the person she was dating for a time. Now things 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: have escalated. It was Paris Fashion Week last week and 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: at the launch event for his fashion brand Geezy, he 28 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: as well as a number of his models, wore shirts 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: that said white Lives Matter, and that's a phrase which 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: has roots in white supremacist movements. And it's just very, 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: very odd behavior. Nobody knows why he's doing it. 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: He's a black guy, but he's spoken a strangely slavery before. 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: That's upset a lot of the black community too. What 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: he's into slavery. 35 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: No, he basically said, it's if it happened for so long, 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: it sounds like a choice. He says these things that 37 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: are so bizarre, it's and it makes it stranger because 38 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: he himself is a black man who's had these experiences. 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: So on Friday, he doubled down on the White Lives 40 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: Matter stunt on Fox News, and he said he wore 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: the shirt because of his connection with God. He compared 42 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: himself to Tanya Harding when she attempted the triple axel 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: in ice skating. Yeah, exactly the same as that, basically, 44 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: And then he made comparisons to David and Goliath, and 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: it was all over the place, and the interviewer kind 46 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: of just let him go, and it was clear that 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: everybody was very confused about everything he was saying, my 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: polar it wasn't making a lot of sense. 49 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: And didn't he at some point have an image of 50 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: a hat with twenty twenty four as if he's going 51 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: to run again for the presidency. Sposed to think that. 52 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,399 Speaker 1: But this does raise the question, are we enighbling him 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: by not calling his behavior out because he has mental illness? 54 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: Exactly. There's a lot of people I find it fascinating 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: with Kanye because last time he was behaving badly. People said, 56 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: hold on, this is a man who's disenfranchised in his 57 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: own ways. He is mentally unwell. He has grown up 58 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 2: with all sorts of experiences because he's black. Like, people 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: were very very empathetic. This time it's changed and people 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: are really arguing that you can be somebody with terrible 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: values and have mental illness, and those are not the 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: same thing, and they're not informing each other. And I 63 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: think it's about stigma. People are trying to say, well, 64 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: don't stigmatize everybody who has bipolar, because we don't do this. 65 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: This is just Kanye and he has a giant mouthpiece. 66 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: He has a lot of exposure that he can access 67 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: any time. Is anyone stopping him? 68 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: I know That's what I think The people in his life, 69 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: I think probably the Kardashian family for a time trying 70 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: to say, like, don't go out there and spout these views, 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: like say them in the home where nobody can hear them, 72 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: but don't go on television. 73 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: But I had a friend who was by Pola, and 74 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: her husband used to just take a credit card away 75 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: because she go out to buy milk and then she 76 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: come home with a seven foot statue of Buddha. Yeah, 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: and it popped on the roof of the car. So 78 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: he took away her credit card and said, okay, let's 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: just when you get on your meds, you can The 80 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: whole team of enablers who make money from him, who 81 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: are part of his franchise who may also think he's 82 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: a genius, who aren't stopping him. 83 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: And I think Fox News giving him that platform made 84 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: it even worse. It was incredibly uncomfortable. But it does 85 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: sort of complicate our narrative at the moment. With social 86 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: justice politics on the internet, we're very keen to have 87 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: somebody as a victim and someone as an oppressor, and 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: somebody like Kanye blurs the lines. Nobody sure where to 89 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: place him because he's saying horrible things. He's got these 90 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 2: abhorrent fears use but he himself has a bit of 91 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: a complicated story. 92 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: Well, he also said to anti Semitic things, and he 93 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: said and said, it's all right. I can say this 94 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: because I'm Jewish. He's not Jewish. No, I don't know. 95 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: It's just it's not making a lot of sense. 96 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Oh he needs someone to say come and have a 97 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: lie down for a while. Yeah, but they've been around 98 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: from you know, since Roman Senators. What about Nero? Yeah, yeah, 99 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: but well he said that. You know, we were just 100 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: talking before about Todd Sampson and the way that social 101 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: media amplifies all this stuff. So someone who has a 102 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: point of view that people would normally say okay, go 103 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: and lie down. Now that view is amplified. So how 104 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: do we what do we do? I don't know, that's 105 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: for another sixty seconds. Yeah yeah, maybe that's what happens 106 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: with you and Jesse. 107 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll work it out on care Claire. 108 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: It's always a treat to check out more catch up 109 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: with Claire and Jesse on their Cancel podcast at mumamea 110 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Today you, Claire Stevens. Will catch you next Monday. 111 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: Thank you.