1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,560 Speaker 1: At True Venture is one of the things that we 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: do when we have meetings is we get a big 3 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: box and everyone's phone goes in a box. Really yeah, 4 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: and we just like we meditate before we do our 5 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: partner off site meeting and then all of our phones 6 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: gone by and we leave them there the entire day. 7 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: I think everyone was a little bit like, I mean, 8 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: there's anxiety around it because we're so addicted these devices. 9 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: But you know, once you do it, I think you 10 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: just really realize and you feel, Wow, it just actually 11 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: feels good to be present, to be here, to enjoy 12 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: the conversations like and not have that thing that is 13 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: always on me that may pull my attention elsewhere. 14 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 15 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 16 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 17 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 18 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. So 19 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: this is another interview that I recorded live at TED 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen in Vancouver a few weeks go. And this 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: interview was actually recorded in the foyer of a hotel lobby, 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: so to excuse the background noise, we've gotten rid of 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: most of it, surprisingly, And yeah, so this interview was 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: with Kevin Rose, who I was very very excited when 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: he got back to me from my reach out to 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: have him on the show. 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: So. 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: Kevin founded the social news site dig which you might 29 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: remember from several years ago. He was a general partner 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: at Google Ventures, where he invested in companies like Ripple, 31 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: Blue Bottle, Medium, and next Door. And prior to that, 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: Kevin began his investing career as an angel investor, investing 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: in some companies that you might have heard of like Twitter, Facebook, 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: and Square. Kevin also hosts the podcast The Kevin Rose Show, 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: where he sets just sex high performers like Tony Robbins, 36 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 2: Tim Ferriss, and Elon Musk and how they have achieved 37 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: such great performance. And I think if you like this show, 38 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: you really love Kevin's show. He's a fantastic interviewer. Now, 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: I think that you will love this chat with Kevin, 40 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: because I absolutely did. He really does think so much 41 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: about how he uses his time, and interestingly, for someone 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: that has forged really most of his success in the 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 2: world of technology, he is trying to cut down the 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: amount of which he uses technology, which I think is 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: really interesting to hear about. We also talk about a 46 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: few other things, like Kevin is self confessed socially awkward, 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: much like I myself feel at many times, and we 48 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: talk about how, for example, he approaches conferences like TED, 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: which is all about socializing. Really, So, without further ado, 50 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: I will hand over to Kevin and we can find 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: out about how he works. 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: To be chatting with Yeah, same, thanks for having me. Yeah. 53 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: Look, I've heard that you're trying to stay off tech 54 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: a bit more, and that's a bit of a focus 55 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: for you, which makes sense. And you've also got a 56 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: meditation app, which I guess kind of goes hand in hand. 57 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: I'm curious. I mean, tech's so addictive. So what strategies 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: you've been using to cut down on tech? 59 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, there's a few things you can do. 60 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: One is, thankfully that you've added a lot of this 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: stuff inherently built into the operating systems. Now so Android 62 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: and iOS both have reminders and warnings that you can 63 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: set up for app usage, things like turning your screen 64 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: a little bit gray scale as a reminder, like, hey, 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: I've been on my device enough, it's now it's time 66 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: to put it down. You can set up notifications when 67 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: you've been using an app too long, or set time 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: boundaries to certain apps. So you know, for me, it's uh, 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: I think my killer one is Instagram. That's where I 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: tend to like jump in and spend some time. And 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: it's crazy because I use it for messaging now between 72 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: friends and things like that, so it's like a double whammy. 73 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: It's like the ability to text people and then also 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: look at photos and things like that. So those are 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: like the built in stuff. I would also do things 76 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: like I would have my Apple Watch with me, and 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,839 Speaker 1: on my Apple Watch, you would normally think, well, that's 78 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: just another piece of technology to distract you, which is true. 79 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: But if you go in and you turn off all 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: the notifications, so my Apple Watch for me is just 81 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: really a fitness tracker. And then also if you have 82 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: the cell phone connectivity piece of it, you can just 83 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: leave your home phone at home, and so that's nice 84 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: because you know, with a couple of kids, you know, 85 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: I need to have if a phone call happened, then 86 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: need to be able to answer it. So but I 87 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: don't want to have the distraction of having a phone 88 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: with texting and all the other stuff. I mean, technically 89 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: you can text on the Apple Watch, but nobody's doing that, 90 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: you know. It's just like it's really hard to do. 91 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: So that's another way, especially if you're going to go 92 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: to the gym or things like that. So many people 93 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: I see like using their phone on treadmills now, which 94 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: is very ridiculous with funny and seeous. Yes, it's certainly 95 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: dangerous as well, but I would say that's another one. 96 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: Putting a rubber band around your phone. 97 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: Band around your phone. 98 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's a good one because if you think 99 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: about it, one of the things that this software built 100 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: then will tell you is how many pickups you do 101 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: per day, And so mine was like, you know, one 102 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: hundred plus pickups to day. You don't even realize it. 103 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: You're just like, oh, what's what's going on here? Let 104 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: me flip my phone over. Putting your phone face down 105 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: is another great little tip. But when you see that 106 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: rubber band, it just reminds you to pause for a 107 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: second and you can think to yourself, do I really 108 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: need to pick up my device right now? So it's 109 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: just a visualqueue to like, you know, start that train 110 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: of thought versus it having it be something that's just 111 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: like you know you're doing subconsciously that you don't even 112 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: realize you're doing. So little things like that. 113 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: So the rubber band is covering the screen, Like, how 114 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 2: does it work? Because you're right now you've got your 115 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: phone face down. So yeah, practicing what you preach. 116 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I don't have a rubber band on it. 117 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: But if I did, it would just be just another 118 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: thing on there. I'd have to move it out of 119 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: the way if I was actually going to use the device. 120 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: But that's the point. It's just like a little thing 121 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: to say, wait, like like do you really need to 122 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: get into your phone? And most times the answer is no, 123 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: you know, unless there's something really important to check or 124 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: things like that. But finding little strategies like that, I 125 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: think it's really important. At True Venture is one of 126 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: the things that we do when we have meetings is 127 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: we get a big box and everyone's phone goes in 128 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: a box. Really yeah, we just like we meditate before 129 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: we do our partner off site meeting and then all 130 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: of our phones going by and we leave them there 131 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: the entire day. And so we know that like there's 132 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: certain times where certain people have medical emergencies things like that, 133 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: they need to deal with it. Obviously that's that's fine, 134 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: you do when you need to, but you know, just 135 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: getting rid of that distraction putting at some other place. 136 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: Did you get any pushback on that idea to put 137 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: phones in a box for a day. 138 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: I think everyone was a little bit like, I mean, 139 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: there's anxiety around it because we're so addicted these devices. 140 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: But you know, once you do it, I think you 141 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 1: just really realize and you feel, wow, it just actually 142 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: feels good to be present, to be here, to enjoy 143 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: the conversations, like and not half that thing that is 144 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: always on me that may pull my attention elsewhere. Yeah. 145 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned Instagram, Like, how have you got 146 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: tricks for making sure that you don't go down an 147 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: Instagram black hole? 148 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean that's a tough one. I think that 149 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: identifying when these things happen, because for me, it's always 150 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: been time of day based and so I was horrible 151 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: at sitting in bed, laying in bed and just like 152 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: going through Instagram just before bed. You know, So having 153 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: a no device like policy in bed I think is key. 154 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: Do you charge your devices outside of the bedroom. 155 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: Yes, that also is really helpful putting the phone in 156 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: the bathroom next door, and also helps them get out 157 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: of bed in the morning. Although although now that we've 158 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: had a second kid, I'm like feeding our oldest daughter 159 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: her first bottle in the morning, So I have to 160 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: get up no matter what otherwise I'm gonna hear it 161 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: from my wife. So yeah, so that's a key piece 162 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: of just getting the technology out of the room. I 163 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: think is so essential. 164 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. It's gosh, it's hard. Like 165 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: with Instagram, I deleted it from my phone probably about 166 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: two years ago because I just I'd had that moment 167 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: where I'd lost two hours of my life, right, I'm like, well, 168 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: I can't let that happen again. 169 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: Well, it's hard when it's like also a tool for 170 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: close family, like we use it to post like pictures 171 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: of our kids to immediate family that's private accounts. And 172 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: then also it's a business tool. You know a lot 173 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: of people use it for promoting their brand. They're whatere, 174 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: they're podcasting about there where they're writing like it's a 175 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: So it's not like you can just say, well I 176 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: can just live without it. Like in a modern world, 177 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: like there's so many times where we need these types 178 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: of tools for our own you know, professional wellbeing, and 179 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: so it's it's it's it's really choosing your battles and 180 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: picking when to go in and make sure that you 181 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: actually have a hard stop and you get out. Yeah. 182 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to come back to this idea of 183 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: putting phones in a box when when you're at these 184 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 2: all day off side, Yeah, what's your approach to meetings 185 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: kind of like your ever half hour, one hour meeting. 186 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: What are you kind of doing in meetings to help 187 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 2: people get more focused and be less disturbed? 188 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: Well, it's funny, I would say that I was always 189 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: of the mindset I had always treated meetings as something 190 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: where someone put together just like you know, a request, 191 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it felt like my 192 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: week was just getting filled up with a bunch of 193 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: meetings that really didn't have any any really hard structure 194 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: to them, and it ended up being just largely waste 195 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: of time, especially people didn't show up on time. So 196 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: one of the things that I learned at Google that 197 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: I thought was really useful is that every meeting that 198 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: we had had an agenda to it along with kind 199 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: of like the decisions that were expected to come out 200 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: of the meeting, the kind of key stakeholders of who 201 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: was attending the meeting and what decisions were they were 202 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: expected to make. So things where it was one of 203 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: those things where if you went to a meeting and 204 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: people didn't show up or relate, the meeting was just 205 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: automatically canceled. So they were very much your time was 206 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: really treated as this like precious resource that we all 207 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: took very seriously, and so when you showed up for 208 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: a meeting, work actually got done. And the push was 209 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: really to have shorter periods of time. So it's very 210 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: easy to drag out a one hour meeting on someone's calendar, 211 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: but you really don't need an hour in most cases, 212 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: especially if the information is kind of circulated or prepared 213 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: ahead of time. So really trying to keep that to 214 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: twenty or thirty minutes max. And making sure that the 215 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: person that is setting that up has an agenda I 216 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: think has been really really key. 217 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: And would you set that exact time in the diary 218 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: because I think one of I mean, Google has spady meetings, 219 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: which I think is awesome, an awesome setting. Would you 220 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: sometimes set meetings for shorter periods of time, or just 221 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: kind of being conscious that once we're done. 222 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and they're just having a hard stop. I mean, 223 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: like really kind of a it's a good forcing function 224 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: to like get to the meat of what you want 225 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: to do versus just like you know, kind of it 226 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: forces the organizer to really have all of their shit together, 227 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: like you know, just like really come in here prepared, 228 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: because we know that everyone's time is precious and valuable, 229 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: and so why waste it by just you know, kind 230 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: of going down rabbit holes. 231 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. I wanted to ask because we're 232 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: obviously both here in Vancouver because we're attending TED, and 233 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: I think attending TED this is my second time, and 234 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: I remember the first time. Still the second time, it's 235 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: just it's intimidating, like being around two thousand people who 236 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: were just amazing and have been kind of can curated. 237 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: And I've heard you talk, I think on your podcast, 238 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: The Kevin Rose Show, which I love about you grew 239 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: up as sort of like you know, you're on your 240 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: computer for a lot of your childhood as opposed to 241 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 2: added parties. And I think I've heard you describe yourself 242 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: as socially awkward, and I feel like there's nothing like 243 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: an event like TED to bring out the inner social 244 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: awkwardness in anyone. And I wanted to know, like, what's 245 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: your approach for approaching the wake and not kind of 246 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: just freaking out with how many people and there are 247 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: and I actually making some real connections. 248 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really difficult, you know, I was thinking about 249 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this recently because I first 250 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: attended back in two thousand and eight, was my first TED, 251 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: and I basically just went to the talks and then 252 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: went back to my hotel room and kind of just 253 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: hung out, you know, because I didn't really want to 254 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: like meet new people. It's like really like intimidating and 255 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: just walking. I was never one of those people just 256 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: to walk up to someone be like, hey, like random person, 257 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, my name's Kevin, nice to meet, let's talk. 258 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: Like I can't do that. I'm not. I'm horrible icebreakers. 259 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: I don't like. I think they're so cheesy when you're like, 260 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: how's the weather. It's crazy it's rain and isn't it 261 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: like you know, it's like I just I didn't really 262 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: know what to do. So I still have a lot 263 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: of hard I have a pretty hard time with this 264 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: type of stuff. So for me, it's like if I 265 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: it's much easier when you're with friends and you have 266 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: like a buddy that is like someone that is you 267 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: can look to and say, Okay, well we're going to 268 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: do this together. And you're both geeks and a little awkward, 269 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: so you go into these parties and events together. So 270 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: I try and kind of like seek out those few 271 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: people that I do know that have been before and 272 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: be like, hey, what are you doing tonight? Maybe we 273 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: should meet up, and like that just like makes things 274 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: just so much easier. I would always go a little 275 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: bit late to parties because I find that once people 276 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: had like a drink in them, it makes them a 277 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: lot more like just like laid back and easier to 278 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: approach people, a lot more open to like meeting new people. 279 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: And that also makes me drink one less drink because 280 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: I will always like trying not to like drink too much, 281 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, because I obviously want to be up early 282 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: the next day and really enjoy the talks and not 283 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: be hungover or anything like that. So I was just 284 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: thinking about strategies of how I could delay having to 285 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: have a drink and going and getting a bitters and 286 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 1: soda at the bar is really key for that as well, 287 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: because it looks like a drink and you can hold 288 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: it in your hand, you can seem like you're social. 289 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: I still have a couple of drinks, but I like 290 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: to limit it too, you know, because I am just 291 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: like old now and like I get hung over. It's 292 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: rolling the dice. Anything past that, particularly with two young kids. Yeah, especially, yeah, exactly, 293 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: like that just makes it ten times worse. So yeah, 294 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: I don't have a perfect answer for that. It's it's 295 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: really been challenging because I have been such a geek 296 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: and it's weird because when I do podcasts, I feel 297 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: like I can turn it on and just be like 298 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: someone that is not myself. It's me, but it's like 299 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: an exaggerated, over the top version because I know that, like, 300 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, kind of have to perform and be loud 301 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: for a microphone and talk a little bit louder than 302 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: you normally would and all those things. But it's still 303 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: it's still a challenge to break out of that shell. 304 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: How do you do it? 305 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, it's funny. It's almost like the different hats 306 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: that I where I do a lot of keynote speaking, 307 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: and it's like, well, that's okay, Like I've kind of 308 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: been given permission to talk. 309 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: So that's all right. 310 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: And I found that, like I was so shy in school, 311 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: but drama class gave me an outlet because I had 312 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: that permission. And I think that's the thing. It's like, 313 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: I feel like socially awkward people don't feel like they've 314 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: got permission to talk. So I feel like if I've 315 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: got permission, like in the podcast, for example, we both 316 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: got permission because they both hosted a podcast. 317 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: So it's actually a great point. 318 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what it's been for me. Do 319 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: you do you have like go to questions because I've 320 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: heard that you're like you're not into small talk, nor 321 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: am I. It feels quite wasteful in terms of time, 322 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: Like do you have go to strategies or questions that 323 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: just to kind of cut to the chase when you're 324 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: meeting someone for the first time. 325 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I try to find something that is a that 326 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: is not small talk but is also a mutual kind 327 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: of interest, like something that's really kind of I don't know, 328 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of wacky things that I'm into, and 329 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: so you know, when people say like, what have you 330 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: been up too lately, because that's a common thing, or 331 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: what's new, and I'll just say, like if someone were 332 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: to say to me, what's new at this tet, I 333 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: would say, well, just before I left, I finished taking 334 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: these logs that I found or that I had cut 335 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: down from this tree, and I've been brushing them down 336 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: so that I can inoculate them with mushroom spores because 337 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: I want to grow some culinary mushrooms this spring, and 338 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: so I'm trying to I bought these inoculated wood pegs 339 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: that you drill into the logs and then you hammer 340 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: them in with a hammer and then cover them with wax, 341 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: and then I place them in the backyard underneath the trees, 342 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: and then over three or four months will eventually grow 343 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: lines made mushrooms. And so lines mainly are really good 344 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: for cognition, and it's just like something I'm really excited 345 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: to get into. So it is my first time kind 346 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: of inoculating these tree trunks with the spores. 347 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: They're the ones in force sigmatic, Is that right? 348 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: Zigmac definitely has a lines made. They have cortsaps for energy. 349 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: They have a bunch of different types of mushrooms, these 350 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: kind of medicinal mushrooms. So I don't know, that's something 351 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: I'm kind of excited about. And typically someone will be 352 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: like wha, like tell me more, Like I have this 353 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: interest that's really wacky, you know, and so I like 354 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: getting to that because that's like, I don't know, it's 355 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: just something that's different that it's fun to talk about, 356 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: versus just being like, oh, it sucks the weather, you know, 357 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: because it's supposed to ran the next few days. But 358 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: like that type of stuff is just really boring to me, 359 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: and I'd rather get into something a little bit more meany. 360 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so will you kind of consciously think about what 361 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: are the interesting things that I've been doing that I 362 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 2: can bring up? 363 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: So just likes yeah, exactly that, And like themes I 364 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: hear about the conference, Like, I know a lot of 365 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: people here are into this psychedelic research that people have 366 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: been talking about, and I know there's some get togethers 367 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: for that, and so I don't know, that's something I 368 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: would love to chat with people about, or you know, 369 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 1: just things that I are themes of the conference or 370 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: just something that that is more than the casual you know, 371 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: list of five questions that people typically say at parties, you. 372 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: Know, yes, yes, that's a great strategy. I like that 373 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 2: and kind of the pre planning I think makes you 374 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 2: feel more prepared when you're going into conversations where you 375 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: just might get stuck. 376 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: Or something like that. I think that for me, I 377 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: tend to be like really into people that want to 378 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: try weird things throughout their life and just like to explore. 379 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: And like, just before I came down here, I kid 380 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: you not, this is like a half hour ago. I 381 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: was talking to my wife and she was like, I'm like, 382 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: have you ever heard this this website called Blueprint. She's 383 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: like no, I don't think so wide. I'm like, oh, 384 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: I just bought it one. They're kits and she's like, well, 385 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: what's the kit. I'm like it's a knitting kit and 386 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: she goes, nigg what are you And I'm like, well, 387 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: I just want to learn how to knit, like I've 388 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: never I've never done knitting before, Like why not just 389 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: learn how to do it. It's going to take me 390 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: probably three or four days. I'll make a scarf for something. 391 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: And I know that sounds completely weird, but like, I 392 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: don't know, it's just something I've never learned how to do, 393 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: Like why not try something new like that. I tend 394 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: to do that at least four or five times a year, 395 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: just like pick something I've never done before. I took 396 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: a sewing class a few times, tried that. My dad 397 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 1: was like this too, though, like he was in a 398 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: cross ditch. He did that back in the day when 399 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: you heard that this NFL player that he liked was 400 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: into cross stitch and did it for relaxation techniques. So 401 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: my dad was like, I'm going to try that. And 402 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: I just remember him doing woodworking and like he was 403 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: into fishing and all these different things where he would 404 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: just try his hand at different things. And My'm almost 405 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: kind of like that too. So I don't know, I 406 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: feel like I want to like meet people that are 407 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: always exploring and are lifelong learners. To me, that's really 408 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: like fascinating, and so I try to throw those things 409 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: out there, like what are you into these days? Like 410 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: what are you trying that's new and exciting? And people 411 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: typically have like a book to recommend or you know, 412 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: that's another great one. I always like asking that question, 413 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: like what's like a book that you've read recently that 414 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm looking for a new book, you know, and like 415 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: oftentimes I am because I tend to plow through audible 416 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: books pretty fast. And I was say, like, what's something 417 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: you've read in the last six months that you're really 418 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: excited about or you could share with me, and people 419 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: typically have something they're pretty stoked on. 420 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your approach to reading a book? Like you 421 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: obviously mentioned audio books, do you read hard copy books 422 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 2: as well? 423 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: Or yeah, still I do. I have audible where I 424 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,959 Speaker 1: get like three credits a month type thing, and so 425 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: those tend to stack up because sometimes them not as 426 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: fast as buying them. But I'll have guests on my show. 427 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: I'll talk to people you know that I meet out 428 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: in the real world, and they'll recommend a book here there, 429 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: and so I'll always go in there quickly like buy 430 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: them and then typically listen to them on like one 431 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: point two fight speed. And we'll if I find a 432 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: book where I'm just like, wow, there was so many 433 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: great things in there, I always want to go back 434 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: and reread it, but I won't reread it, and I'll 435 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: actually buy a physical copy so I can make highlights 436 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: and add notes and things like. 437 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: That, so that will always be the second time around. 438 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: For you hear you with a hard copy. 439 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, just because like I feel like I can 440 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: jam through something pretty fast on audible and I'll know 441 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: pretty quickly like wow, this is like so there's so 442 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: many things I want to go back to here, let's 443 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: pick up a hard copy. 444 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: What's a great book that you've read this here? 445 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: Well, I was just driving up here because I have 446 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: some newborns, So we drove up to ted and I 447 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: had a bunch of time to like kill on audible, 448 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: and so I got this forest bathing book that actually 449 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: had been gifted to me as a physical copy, but 450 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: I thought, hey, I might as well go and listen 451 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: to it on audible because I can't obviously drive and listen. 452 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: So is this called forest bathing How trees can help 453 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: you find health and happiness? So essentially it was some 454 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: research that had been done in Japan where they had 455 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: taken people out into the forest and measured all their 456 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: different stress hormones or course all levels, like different things, 457 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: their killer t cell count like pre impost like forest 458 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: bathing where you just go out and really it's not 459 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: about just walking the forest, but it's about taking in 460 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: all the sensory of the forest. Like the smells, the sights, 461 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: like the touch and feel the ground some people call 462 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: like earthing where you walk on the ground with like 463 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: bare feet, things like that, put your feet in the stream, 464 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: just really taking it all in. And so there's been 465 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: some really deep research has gone into it. The trees 466 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: put off these different types of compounds and scents that 467 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: actually help them increase this killer T cell count in 468 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: our bodies that i actually boost our immune system and 469 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: reduce our coarsol levels. There's certain bacteria and the soil 470 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: that are good at reducing stress that we inhale like 471 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: a lot of really cool benefits of actually being in 472 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: spending time in the forest. And so they've done a 473 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: bunch of research out of Japan, and this book is 474 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: the head researcher that's put this all together and tells 475 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: you all the different types of trees and their smells 476 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: and where to go and how to take it all in, 477 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: how to get all the benefits of the forest. So 478 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: I thought it was like, so far, it's been a 479 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: great reading. About three quarters the way through it. 480 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's interesting. I mean there's so much research 481 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 2: around the benefits of nature. I remember one of my 482 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: favorite studies They tracked these people that went backpacking in 483 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: nature without technology for four days and they tested their 484 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: creativity pre and post and I think it had increased 485 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 2: like fifty percent or something like that four days inn. 486 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 1: They were talking about that in the book. They were 487 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: talking about how a lot of writers use the forest 488 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: because they get writer's block and it's just a way 489 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: to go in and increase their creativity. So there's a 490 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: lot of benefits there. I'm sure we'll be figuring those 491 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: out for years to come, but it's it's interesting they 492 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: started to crack the code on some of this stuff. 493 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 2: That's fascinating. And for you, where do your best ideas 494 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 2: come to you? 495 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: It's a good question. I think just before bed. Sometimes 496 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: I live there and I let myself like daydream a 497 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: little bit, and I feel like that has always been 498 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: a nice place. Unfortunately, if I get a little too 499 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: caught up in that, then I don't want to sleep, 500 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: So it's like hard. You've gotta have to like force 501 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: your mind not to go there sometimes if you're trying 502 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: to get some sleep. But I would say that's probably 503 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: a place meditation has been quite nice for that. Sometimes 504 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: kind of post meditation, like just letting my my brain 505 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: finds some downtime. That's that's been a great time. I 506 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: I it's it's random. I feel like when I'm stressed, 507 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: I'm overworked, is the worst possible time to come up 508 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: with the creative ideas. So so many times that like, 509 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, you'd be searching for this idea because you 510 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: need to figure a way out, And it's that active 511 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: process that doesn't produce results. But it's more like the 512 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: downtime where you get, I feel like time for your 513 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: subconscious to turn on things. Yeah, and then eventually something 514 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: comes to the service. 515 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 2: Definitely. And do you have a notepad next to your 516 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: bed if there's no phone to run down on? 517 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 1: No, I don't not at this moment. But I've just 518 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: been trying to like not have the bed be a 519 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: place for lately for like thoughts. I've been just trying 520 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: to like get better. Improve my sleep has been a 521 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: big big piece of it. Yeah. 522 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I know you've got an or ring. I'm 523 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: also an aura a fan. How do you use the 524 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: or ring to improve your sleep? And maybe it's worth 525 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: explaining what the urror ring shoots for those that don't know. 526 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, or rings just it looks like a standard ring, 527 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: so it doesn't The new version of it looks exactly 528 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: like a ring. You wouldn't even be able to glance 529 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: down at and think it's anything else. But it's really 530 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: a fitness tracker. So it's got really close proximity to 531 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: your arteries and your finger, so it's samples. It has 532 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: no display on it, so the only way you can 533 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: interface with it and figure out what's going on is 534 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: by through a mobile app. But the sample rate, like 535 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: it's fifty times a second or something crazy, that's like 536 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: three times out of a Apple Watch. It gives you 537 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: higher fidelity data and they track. I would say that 538 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: I don't really use it for the fitness stuff. I 539 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: use Apple Watch more for that, but I use it 540 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: for the sleep tracking. So the sleep tracking will give 541 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: you has about a five day battery charge. When you 542 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: wake up in the morning, you can open the app. 543 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: It sinks to it. It'll tell you your light sleep, your 544 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: rim sleep, your deep sleep, your heart rate variability, you're 545 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: resting heart rate, how late that occurred in the night. 546 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: Just a bunch of different factors that go into creating 547 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: a sleep score for you so you can understand, oh, 548 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm not getting enough deep sleep, or I'm not getting 549 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: enough rimsleep, or I have too many disturbances in the 550 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: middle of the night, And then there's steps you can 551 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: take to try and address that type of stuff. 552 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: So what like how would you act on that? And 553 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 2: like the aura also gives you a readiness score, which 554 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: is also based on like your body temperature and resting 555 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 2: hot right and things like that. And I like, I've 556 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: always wondered because I haven't really met any other AURA users. 557 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: It's not that big in Australia, Like how do you 558 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: use the readiness score? Does that impact how you will 559 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: approach the day? And also your sleep score? How do 560 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: you work on like getting more deep sleep? 561 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: Well, my deep sleep is horrible. That's something I'm trying 562 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: to work on. Essentially, It's been difficult the last couple 563 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: of years because of having babies come in to feed 564 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: throughout the night is a big disturbance. But I would 565 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: say that there are things you can do. There are 566 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: very obvious things. Unfortunately, there's like no like secret hidden 567 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: hack I have here, But I will say Matt Walker's book, 568 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: who's speaking here at this ted this year, Why We Sleep, 569 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: phenomenal book. He runs the Berkeley Sleep Lab, out there, 570 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: and he's the scientist responsible for really figuring out what 571 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: the brain is doing while we're sleeping. It's so much 572 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: more so than we knew in the past. And and 573 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: I would highly recommend picking up that book or getting 574 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: it on on you know one of your audio apps 575 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: that said, drinking caffeine really early in the day and 576 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: not drinking too much alcohol is a big no no 577 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: really impact sleep blocking out blue light. So I have 578 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: like blue light glasses I wear before bed, especially the 579 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: first couple of hours we are a couple hours prior 580 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: to going to bed. 581 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: So one yeah, really blue light glasses? Yeah, so do 582 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: you just get them on Amazon? 583 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: You can get Amazon. There's there's one that I have. 584 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: It's called Gunner makes them. They're kind of like for gamers, 585 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: but they block out blue light. So Gunner makes them. 586 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: There's another one my buddy sent me that even looked 587 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: cooler than Gunners. I can't remember the name of them though, 588 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: but they were pretty awesome. I could send it to 589 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: you for your show notes. But essentially wearing those so 590 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: you block out the blue lights. So blue light has 591 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: been known to alter your circadian rhythms, and it's a 592 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: light we get from the sunset sunlight, so we think that, oh, 593 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: it's daylight out, and everybody don't know it's time to 594 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: go to sleep, and so we don't create and produce 595 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: melitonin and all the other things we need to go 596 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: to sleep, and so you don't get the sleep pressure 597 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: they call it. And so just introducing those when the 598 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: sun goes down so that if you're you know, having 599 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: dinner at home or turn down the lights a little 600 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: bit and also having those on. Thankfully, don't look as 601 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: bad as I used to, so my wife doesn't give 602 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: me too much of a hard time about worrying them anymore. 603 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, using those is key. Not eating too much 604 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: for your last meal is key. Not drinking too much water, 605 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: like hydrating ahead of time, but not just before you 606 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: go to bed so you don't have to get up 607 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: multiple times during the middle of the night. It's a 608 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: thousand little things. One thing that I have yet to 609 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: try that is next on my list, that is specifically 610 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: for deep sleep is bringing down your core body temperature. 611 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: And so there is a thing called a chili pad 612 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: that you can get. 613 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: Yes, so I've got one of those. 614 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: Has it worked, It's great? Yeah, has it improved your 615 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: deep sleep. 616 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: You know what, I haven't. I haven't tested it against 617 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: my deep sleep because I don't use it all the 618 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: time it's on the bed. But we'd maybe use it 619 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: like one in ten or fifteen nights, probably more so 620 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: in winter. But yeah, I'm going to do it for 621 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: this moment. YO use it to warm up in winter. 622 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: So you're not using it for the cold as we've 623 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: used it. 624 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: A little bit in summer, but more so in winter, 625 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: and possibly even just as an electric blanket before we 626 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: get into bed and then switching it off. But yeah, 627 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: I assume you don't have. 628 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: One, yeah, or you do. I do not have one, okay, but. 629 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: You're going to get one and maybe run some experiments. 630 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that's interesting about sleep, and specifically deep sleep, 631 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: is that if you can bring your core body temperature down, 632 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: you actually get more deep sleep, and they've proven that 633 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: in the in the lab. The problem is everybody likes 634 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: to be really toasty warm. I love to be warm. 635 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 636 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: So I have a friend of mine, she's a scientist, 637 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: and her husband she's starting to like work on all 638 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: this stuff, and she said that her husband wears one 639 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: of those gravity heavy blankets on top. But then it 640 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: has the actual cold chili underneath and bring that helps 641 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: with his deep sleep. So I'm gonna try Matt Walker, 642 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: the scientist I mentioned at Berkeley, he recommends, I can't 643 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: remember the exact temperature, but you can find it in 644 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: his book and he recommends it's it's colder than you 645 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: would think. And so I know it's a bomber. It's 646 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: a bummer. But what's interesting is, like you're they actually 647 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: have shown that heating the feet initially helps you fall 648 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: asleep faster, and then dropping down the heat helps you 649 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: get into deep sleep. So it's kind of like they 650 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: had this Matt had talked about it at one point. 651 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: But essentially there is this idea, this theory that the 652 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: way that it works at so at sunset, if you 653 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: were sleeping outside the core like your boy, temperature would 654 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: sleep would dip down as the sun sets, get into 655 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: a nice deep sleep, and then it actually warms back up. 656 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: The earth warms back up slightly before sun rise or 657 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: as sun the sun is rising, which would kick off 658 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: that process of waking you up. So I think I'm 659 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: thinking that the future version of Chili Pad will have 660 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: like almost like a circadian rhythm based heating cooling system 661 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: built in that would be ideal, right, because otherwise you 662 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: want it to naturally kind of like heat up to 663 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: bring you down, cool down and put you in to 664 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: a deep sleep and then rise as you're about to 665 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: get up. It's very technical, but I think it could 666 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: be people think like, well, this sounds like you know, 667 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: rich people's problems, like oh, how can I sleep to 668 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: the perfect temperature? And to some extide, I totally agree 669 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: with that, But at the same time, they have shown 670 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: that these stages of sleep, specifically deep sleep, can are 671 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: the powerhouses that we need to clear out a lot 672 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: of the garbage that's going on in our brain and 673 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: really do a lot of the repair. And so that's 674 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: repair on the cellular level. So people that sleep better 675 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: have lower rates of cancer and demandsia and a bunch 676 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: of other things. So it really is a very important 677 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: thing sleep, But I think that we've neglected it for 678 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: so long. There's always almost been this badge of honor 679 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: saying the less we sleep, the more hardcore we are, 680 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: and the better you know, I only five hours, I'm 681 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: still going I'm pulling all nighters, and that's really detrimental 682 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: to our health and it's just too bad that that's 683 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: been kind of the case. And I'm hoping that in 684 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: the next ten to fifteen years we'll be able to 685 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: prove that sleep is so important and should be guarded 686 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: and protected. 687 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Now I want to ask one final 688 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: question in terms of like we've talked about a few 689 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 2: different gadgets, but I'm curious in terms of like being 690 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: as effective you as you can at work, Like what 691 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: are your go to things that make you more effective 692 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 2: at work? 693 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think clearly defining what you want to get 694 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: out of the day is so important and not trying 695 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: to create this laundry list of things that are just 696 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: lead to this analysis paralysis type thing where you see 697 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: this daunting list that you don't want to take on. 698 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: So for me, it's just like, here are the two 699 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: to three things that I want to do today, and 700 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: let's try and accomplish those. And I think that reduces 701 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the anxiety of I must get everything 702 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: done today and really lets you kind of enjoy day 703 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: to day life a little bit more. We're just like 704 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: rushing so fast to like on to the next thing 705 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: that I worry that it's just turned into this blur 706 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: of days where it's just like, I feel so unsatisfied 707 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: at the end of the day that I didn't get 708 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: more done, and what a horrible way to live. And 709 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: so if anything, I want to work smarter, not like longer, 710 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: and really just try and if I can do those 711 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: two or three things and get those done, consider the 712 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: day of success at that point and just really feel 713 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: good about that. And that makes me just like say, well, 714 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: I had a great day, like this is exactly what 715 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: I set out to do. Versus seeing it it's just like, 716 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: oh man, even more things came into my inbox today. 717 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like there's this expectation that 718 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: we must answer all of our emails as they come 719 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: in and everything must be done as fast as possible, 720 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: and I just really like the idea of pushing back 721 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: on that a little bit and saying, yes, it's important 722 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: to be productive and to get things done, but let's 723 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: slow down just a little bit. Let's and not beat 724 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: ourselves up so much for not doing everything or responding 725 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: as fast as possible, and just really hopefully being able 726 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: to get outside and to make a little bit of 727 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: extra time for self care. So just trying to find 728 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: those extra fifteen twenty minutes sit down and do a 729 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: proper meditation or thirty minutes, just those little things that 730 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: you know, maybe take on knitting, like something that you 731 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: can do that just like gives you a little bit 732 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: of personal time back, you know, versus always feeling like 733 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: I have to be fully like I have to be 734 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: work all the time, and I don't know, I worry 735 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: that that is just we're going to look back on 736 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: that thirty forty years now and just be like, where 737 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: did my life go and where did I really get 738 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: out of this, you know versus because I we always 739 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: say like, well, I'll make time for this. Had I 740 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: had this come back to bite me and that my 741 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: dad would always invite me out to go do fishing 742 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: trips and be like, oh, let's get out, like you're 743 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: working to our blah blah blah. And like Kevin in 744 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: his twenties and early thirties was like, no dat, I 745 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: got to work. I got a start up with employees, 746 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: got to make sure this gets done blah blah. It 747 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: was just like it was a lot of pushing that 748 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: down the road. And you know, my dad passed away 749 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: with a heart attack and I missed out on a 750 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff a lot of those times, and 751 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: you never get that stuff back, and you just never 752 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: know what's around the corner. I've had friends that had 753 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with cancer in their thirties and forties. I'd 754 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: won that passed away in his thirties, and it's just 755 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: like life is so unpredictable in that way. It's just 756 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: like it's a shame to push these things out. We 757 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: should be enjoying every single day to its fullest. And 758 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: it's really easy to think, well, I'm putting my career 759 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: first right now, but there has to be a better balance. 760 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 2: What a lovely way to end, Kevin, thank you so much. 761 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 2: It's just been such a pleasure. 762 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. 763 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: So that is it for today's show. I hope you 764 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 2: got some useful tips from Kevin and how he thinks 765 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 2: about his life and learning and networking and all those 766 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 2: sorts of things. If you enjoyed today's episode, why not 767 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 2: share it with someone else that you think could benefit 768 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 2: from hearing about how Kevin approaches his work and his life. 769 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: So you just have to click on the little share 770 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 2: icon where you listen to this podcast, and that will 771 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 2: make it easy to share it with someone else. So 772 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: that is it for today and I will see you 773 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 2: next time.