Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily Off. This
Speaker 1: is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good
Speaker 1: morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the
Speaker 1: twenty fourth of December. Happy Christmas Eve. I'm Billy and
Speaker 1: we are back for another episode of tda's summer series.
Speaker 1: We're here to keep your company over the summer break
Speaker 1: with the best of tda's deep dives from the year
Speaker 1: that was. Today, we're talking about Taylor Swift's rise and
Speaker 1: Rise and Rise. Earlier this month, as I'm sure you'll know,
Speaker 1: she finished her Ears tour, which lasted twenty one months.
Speaker 1: It was the highest grossing tour in history, with more
Speaker 1: than two billion dollars sold just in tickets alone, So
Speaker 1: that's not even including the merch that was sold, and
Speaker 1: it's double the gross ticket sales of any other concert
Speaker 1: tour in history. So we have just one question, how
Speaker 1: exactly did Taylor Swift become so popular? Earlier this year
Speaker 1: I spoke to Kate Patterson, who is a fan studies
Speaker 1: PhD candidate at r MIT in Melbourne, about just that.
Speaker 1: Here is that chat. Kate Patterson, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining the Daily OZ.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I want to start by acknowledging that there are people
Speaker 1: who would have seen today's pod title and rolled their
Speaker 1: eyes because they're tired of seeing Taylor Swift's name literally
Speaker 1: everywhere at the moment. So why should people who aren't
Speaker 1: fans care about Taylor Swift and the impact that she has.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think if.
Speaker 3: You're somebody who's interested in culture and the things that
Speaker 3: people are talking about, you really can't ignore Taylor Swift.
Speaker 3: I think we're at a point where, even if you
Speaker 3: might not like the music, you really can't deny that
Speaker 3: she's really just infiltrated all different parts of culture, whether
Speaker 3: it's the impact she's going to have on the economy
Speaker 3: with the Ears Tour, whether it's winning the fourth album
Speaker 3: of the Grammy, which obviously, as we know, was record
Speaker 3: breaking last week. I really just think it would be
Speaker 3: remiss of us to not talk about Taylor.
Speaker 2: Swift right now.
Speaker 1: Certainly in my lifetime, I can't remember hype anywhere near
Speaker 1: this surrounding an artist coming to Australia. Has this kind
Speaker 1: of obsession ever happened before?
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Speaker 3: I feel like this week a lot of people have
Speaker 3: been comparing her to Beatlemania back in you know, the
Speaker 3: sixties when the Beatles came here. But I think it's
Speaker 3: really hard to compare different artists from different sort of eras,
Speaker 3: just given that right now, with social media and the Internet,
Speaker 3: it's such a different time to back then. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think fan communities are definitely not a new phenomenon,
Speaker 3: but I think what's unique with Taylor right now is
Speaker 3: we do have so much choice at the moment with
Speaker 3: what we listen to, what we watch, what we want
Speaker 3: to sort of talk about. And I think for an
Speaker 3: artist to have had that kind of widespread appeal and
Speaker 3: hype that Taylor has right now is pretty significant. I mean, Beyonce,
Speaker 3: i'd say, has had a similar kind of a legacy
Speaker 3: that she's building in terms of what she's doing and
Speaker 3: the hype around what you know, she just announced her
Speaker 3: new music.
Speaker 2: This week as well. But yeah, I think that's what
Speaker 2: kind of makes Taylor unique.
Speaker 3: And I think also as somebody who's studying fan studies,
Speaker 3: I think her fandom is so engaged and they are
Speaker 3: so you know, loyal to her and involved in so
Speaker 3: many different ways. And I think that's another aspect of
Speaker 3: why we've seen this kind of hype that we perhaps
Speaker 3: haven't seen in a little while when it comes to
Speaker 3: an artist coming to Australia.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I feel like, growing up,
Speaker 1: I always heard about Beatlemania and it feels like Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift coming is our generation's equivalent of that, or is
Speaker 1: she even bigger than that? I don't know. It's so
Speaker 1: hard to understand what it was like back then compared
Speaker 1: to what it's like now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to compare one for the other,
Speaker 3: and there are definitely some similarities and definitely some differences.
Speaker 3: I think with Taylor to being a female artist coming
Speaker 3: here as well, that's been really interesting. She often sort
Speaker 3: of gets compared to these other sort of legacy acts
Speaker 3: and people aren't sure whether we should be talking about
Speaker 3: her in the same category as the Beatles, for example,
Speaker 3: and I think that's due to some kind of broader
Speaker 3: gendered things we have with the music industry.
Speaker 1: I really want to understand why Taylor Swift is so unique,
Speaker 1: because it feels like there are pop stars, then there
Speaker 1: are superstars, and then it feels like there's Taylor Swift
Speaker 1: who is just completely in her own field. And I
Speaker 1: want to understand what is it about Taylor Swift and
Speaker 1: what she has done that has meant that she has
Speaker 1: managed to break through in the way that she has.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's an interesting question. I think that's what
Speaker 3: everybody's trying to figure out right now. I think the
Speaker 3: start is she has released a lot of music. I mean,
Speaker 3: since the last time she was in Australia, we had Lover,
Speaker 3: We've had Folklore Evermore, Midnights, We've.
Speaker 2: Had all the re recordings.
Speaker 3: Like, there's just such a volume of work for people
Speaker 3: to engage with across different genres too. I know a
Speaker 3: lot of people who maybe aren't big country music fans
Speaker 3: or aren't big pop music fans, really came on board
Speaker 3: with Folklore and Evermore and sort of realize all of
Speaker 3: a sudden that perhaps they, you know, we're a Taylor
Speaker 3: Swift fan, or that they liked some of the music
Speaker 3: that she had And so I think from that point
Speaker 3: of view, she's managed to accumulate a sort of broader
Speaker 3: fan base than she had originally.
Speaker 2: And I think also she has been doing a.
Speaker 3: Lot of things outside of music that have had an impact.
Speaker 3: As I mentioned the re recording, a lot of people
Speaker 3: have been interested in that sort of story of her
Speaker 3: going back and re recording these albums, and while she's
Speaker 3: not the first artist to do it, I think the
Speaker 3: way that she's done it, and the way that the
Speaker 3: fans have gotten behind her as well, and the way
Speaker 3: that I guess she's advocating for other musicians in the
Speaker 3: industry and trying to make things better with the power
Speaker 3: that she has. I think in the documentary Miss Americana,
Speaker 3: somebody says, you know, Taylor Swift is the music industry,
Speaker 3: and it's really hard to talk about any kind of
Speaker 3: aspect of the music industry right now that hasn't had,
Speaker 3: you know, some conversation about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: I also really want to understand what the role of
Speaker 1: social media is in her success and how has she
Speaker 1: used that differently to other people, because all artists have
Speaker 1: social media, But what is it about how she has
Speaker 1: used it that has meant she has been able to
Speaker 1: cultivate this fan base.
Speaker 2: I think with.
Speaker 3: Taylor, right from the beginning, she's always made a point
Speaker 3: of engaging with the fans and keeping them in the
Speaker 3: loop and really making them a part of her success
Speaker 3: in a way that has meant that a they've come
Speaker 3: along for the journey with her. But now that she's
Speaker 3: at this point where she's so huge, she doesn't really
Speaker 3: need the media in the same way that a lot
Speaker 3: of other artists do, just given how famous and popular
Speaker 3: she is right now. And so she's got that kind
Speaker 3: of direct relationship with her fans where often she'll announce
Speaker 3: things to them for the first time, whether it's on Instagram,
Speaker 3: you know, TikTok, whatever it might be. And I think
Speaker 3: having that ability to sort of shape the messaging and
Speaker 3: engage directly with the people that are engaging with her music,
Speaker 3: I think has been really important, and for things like
Speaker 3: when she was having that is she with Scooter Born
Speaker 3: and the Masters, is being able to just literally directly
Speaker 3: say to the fans like, this is what's happening, this
Speaker 3: is where I kind of need your support. And I
Speaker 3: think she's always been very good at mobilizing her fans
Speaker 3: that way. And so while other artists definitely use social media,
Speaker 3: I think for some people it's used as more of
Speaker 3: kind of like a broadcast channel where they just sort
Speaker 3: of update people. Think about somebody like Harry Styles, who
Speaker 3: you know, has a great relationship with his fans, but
Speaker 3: he doesn't really engage online. He kind of just posts
Speaker 3: updates of what he's doing, and so I think it
Speaker 3: takes a long time to cultivate that, and I think
Speaker 3: for Taylor, she's done that right from the beginning, and
Speaker 3: that's why it's working so well for her.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, you're saying that makes me think about how
Speaker 1: I follow Taylor Swift on Instagram, and it feels like
Speaker 1: she's talking directly at me somehow, even though she's speaking
Speaker 1: to hundreds of billions, if not billions, But it genuinely
Speaker 1: feels like the communication style makes her feel like a
Speaker 1: close friend almost, whereas everyone else I follow on social media,
Speaker 1: I don't really feel that close or direct communication for me.
Speaker 3: I think that's what Taylor Swift's strength is, whether it's
Speaker 3: through her music and through her songwriting or through the
Speaker 3: way that she engages with fans online and offline. For me,
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift is just so good at connecting with people.
Speaker 3: She's able to relate to people. You know, you listen
Speaker 3: to a Tailor'swift song and there's always somebody who's like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I feel like this was written about me.
Speaker 3: Or as you said, I think in the way that
Speaker 3: she does talk to her fans. She talks to them
Speaker 3: like friends. She doesn't talk to them as I'm this
Speaker 3: big celebrity.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's what's so interesting is that she
Speaker 1: feels relatable even though she could not be less relatable.
Speaker 1: I want to move to fan culture more broadly. It
Speaker 1: feels like it is predominantly led by young women and girls.
Speaker 1: Why is that.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of Taylor Swift fans and other
Speaker 3: pop music fans are seen or perceived to be, you know,
Speaker 3: predominantly female, and while there.
Speaker 2: Is obviously diversity.
Speaker 3: There within any fan community, I think those overarching perceptions
Speaker 3: have over the years often sometimes had a negative impact
Speaker 3: because they're seen as hysterical or delusional, or their fandom
Speaker 3: is like really trivial, because that's just kind of the
Speaker 3: way that we treat women's interests unfortunately in society, is that,
Speaker 3: you know, we just kind of dismissed them compared to
Speaker 3: other things. And I think that's definitely shifted over the
Speaker 3: last couple of years with Barbie and with Taylor's Swift,
Speaker 3: and I guess with young women sort of coming into
Speaker 3: their own around really celebrating the things that they like
Speaker 3: and celebrating the things that they're interested in. But I
Speaker 3: always find it interesting, obviously when we compare to something
Speaker 3: like sports fandom, where we don't have those same kind
Speaker 3: of conversations over their fandom being too much or their
Speaker 3: expressions of passion being seen as you know, overly emotional,
Speaker 3: for example, in the same way.
Speaker 2: That we might do for pop fans.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, with my research, I'm really interested in
Speaker 3: looking at the ways that fans participate in these communities,
Speaker 3: and particularly for young women, how being part of a
Speaker 3: fan community can be quite beneficial in terms of that connection,
Speaker 3: in terms of building a sense of self and also
Speaker 3: even sort of learning particular skills that then they can
Speaker 3: go on to use in you know, the creative industries
Speaker 3: or other sort of male dominie industries down the track.
Speaker 1: That comparison between you know, young men or men who
Speaker 1: are obsessed with sport for example, and how we treat
Speaker 1: that compared to how we treat the fans artists like
Speaker 1: Tailor Swift is super interesting. I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: fully thought about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think definitely it's sort of changing, but
Speaker 3: I think it's important, you know, particularly as Taylor Swift
Speaker 3: gets to Australia, I have seen already. A lot of
Speaker 3: people say, oh, it's already too much. I'm sick of
Speaker 3: seeing all these fans. I'm sick of seeing you know,
Speaker 3: all of this behavior. And I think, you know, unless
Speaker 3: you're doing the same thing for people at the football
Speaker 3: or at the super Bowl or anything like that, I
Speaker 3: think it's just important to just think about the ways
Speaker 3: that perhaps we have a double standard when it comes
Speaker 3: to the ways that people are passionate about things.
Speaker 1: Just lastly, I've been hearing a lot about how it
Speaker 1: feels like Tailorswift is at the peak of her career
Speaker 1: and how long can this kind of success go on for?
Speaker 1: Do you think that this level of fame can be
Speaker 1: sustained for long periods of time?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think in terms of Australia, obviously, the
Speaker 3: fact that she's coming here this month means that there's
Speaker 3: a real heightened interest in her that I think will
Speaker 3: drop off once she's left from the broader society, obviously,
Speaker 3: not for the fans. It's interesting because I think when
Speaker 3: we think back to nineteen eighty nine, and you know
Speaker 3: that sort of twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen time, a lot
Speaker 3: of people thought that was the peak of Taylor Swift's fame.
Speaker 3: You know, she really was everywhere as well. She'd just
Speaker 3: won the Grammy again, and you know, she was just
Speaker 3: infiltrating the culture in so many ways, and she's really
Speaker 3: eclipsed that over the last year, which I think is
Speaker 3: really interesting. So I think we could never say is
Speaker 3: this the peak, But I think she just has reached
Speaker 3: a level that I think will definitely be hard to top,
Speaker 3: both for her and for other people over the next
Speaker 3: few years.
Speaker 2: But she's still producing so much music.
Speaker 3: She's still wanting to be a creative person and keeping
Speaker 3: producing things. So who knows where the next few years
Speaker 3: will take her and if this is something we'll see
Speaker 3: more of over the next few years.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much for joining us on the
Speaker 1: daily ons.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening
Speaker 1: to tda's summer series. If you're on break, we hope
Speaker 1: that you are having a relaxing time, and if you're
Speaker 1: still at work, we also hope that you are having
Speaker 1: a great day. We'll be back again tomorrow with another
Speaker 1: episode from our summer series. Until then, have a great day.
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest
Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.