1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily Off. This 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: twenty fourth of December. Happy Christmas Eve. I'm Billy and 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: we are back for another episode of tda's summer series. 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: We're here to keep your company over the summer break 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: with the best of tda's deep dives from the year 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: that was. Today, we're talking about Taylor Swift's rise and 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: Rise and Rise. Earlier this month, as I'm sure you'll know, 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: she finished her Ears tour, which lasted twenty one months. 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,959 Speaker 1: It was the highest grossing tour in history, with more 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: than two billion dollars sold just in tickets alone, So 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: that's not even including the merch that was sold, and 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: it's double the gross ticket sales of any other concert 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: tour in history. So we have just one question, how 16 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: exactly did Taylor Swift become so popular? Earlier this year 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: I spoke to Kate Patterson, who is a fan studies 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: PhD candidate at r MIT in Melbourne, about just that. 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: Here is that chat. Kate Patterson, thank you so much 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: for joining the Daily OZ. 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: I want to start by acknowledging that there are people 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: who would have seen today's pod title and rolled their 24 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: eyes because they're tired of seeing Taylor Swift's name literally 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: everywhere at the moment. So why should people who aren't 26 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: fans care about Taylor Swift and the impact that she has. 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I think if. 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 3: You're somebody who's interested in culture and the things that 29 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 3: people are talking about, you really can't ignore Taylor Swift. 30 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 3: I think we're at a point where, even if you 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: might not like the music, you really can't deny that 32 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: she's really just infiltrated all different parts of culture, whether 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: it's the impact she's going to have on the economy 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: with the Ears Tour, whether it's winning the fourth album 35 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: of the Grammy, which obviously, as we know, was record 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: breaking last week. I really just think it would be 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 3: remiss of us to not talk about Taylor. 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: Swift right now. 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: Certainly in my lifetime, I can't remember hype anywhere near 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: this surrounding an artist coming to Australia. Has this kind 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: of obsession ever happened before? 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: It's interesting. 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 3: I feel like this week a lot of people have 44 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: been comparing her to Beatlemania back in you know, the 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 3: sixties when the Beatles came here. But I think it's 46 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: really hard to compare different artists from different sort of eras, 47 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 3: just given that right now, with social media and the Internet, 48 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 3: it's such a different time to back then. I mean, 49 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: I think fan communities are definitely not a new phenomenon, 50 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 3: but I think what's unique with Taylor right now is 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: we do have so much choice at the moment with 52 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 3: what we listen to, what we watch, what we want 53 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: to sort of talk about. And I think for an 54 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: artist to have had that kind of widespread appeal and 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: hype that Taylor has right now is pretty significant. I mean, Beyonce, 56 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: i'd say, has had a similar kind of a legacy 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 3: that she's building in terms of what she's doing and 58 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: the hype around what you know, she just announced her 59 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 3: new music. 60 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: This week as well. But yeah, I think that's what 61 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: kind of makes Taylor unique. 62 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 3: And I think also as somebody who's studying fan studies, 63 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: I think her fandom is so engaged and they are 64 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: so you know, loyal to her and involved in so 65 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: many different ways. And I think that's another aspect of 66 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 3: why we've seen this kind of hype that we perhaps 67 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: haven't seen in a little while when it comes to 68 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: an artist coming to Australia. 69 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I feel like, growing up, 70 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: I always heard about Beatlemania and it feels like Taylor 71 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: Swift coming is our generation's equivalent of that, or is 72 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: she even bigger than that? I don't know. It's so 73 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: hard to understand what it was like back then compared 74 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: to what it's like now. 75 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the thing. 76 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: I think it's hard to compare one for the other, 77 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: and there are definitely some similarities and definitely some differences. 78 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: I think with Taylor to being a female artist coming 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: here as well, that's been really interesting. She often sort 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: of gets compared to these other sort of legacy acts 81 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: and people aren't sure whether we should be talking about 82 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: her in the same category as the Beatles, for example, 83 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: and I think that's due to some kind of broader 84 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: gendered things we have with the music industry. 85 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: I really want to understand why Taylor Swift is so unique, 86 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: because it feels like there are pop stars, then there 87 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: are superstars, and then it feels like there's Taylor Swift 88 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: who is just completely in her own field. And I 89 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: want to understand what is it about Taylor Swift and 90 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: what she has done that has meant that she has 91 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: managed to break through in the way that she has. 92 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 3: I mean, it's an interesting question. I think that's what 93 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 3: everybody's trying to figure out right now. I think the 94 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: start is she has released a lot of music. I mean, 95 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 3: since the last time she was in Australia, we had Lover, 96 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: We've had Folklore Evermore, Midnights, We've. 97 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: Had all the re recordings. 98 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: Like, there's just such a volume of work for people 99 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: to engage with across different genres too. I know a 100 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: lot of people who maybe aren't big country music fans 101 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: or aren't big pop music fans, really came on board 102 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: with Folklore and Evermore and sort of realize all of 103 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: a sudden that perhaps they, you know, we're a Taylor 104 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: Swift fan, or that they liked some of the music 105 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: that she had And so I think from that point 106 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: of view, she's managed to accumulate a sort of broader 107 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: fan base than she had originally. 108 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: And I think also she has been doing a. 109 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: Lot of things outside of music that have had an impact. 110 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: As I mentioned the re recording, a lot of people 111 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: have been interested in that sort of story of her 112 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: going back and re recording these albums, and while she's 113 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: not the first artist to do it, I think the 114 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 3: way that she's done it, and the way that the 115 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: fans have gotten behind her as well, and the way 116 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 3: that I guess she's advocating for other musicians in the 117 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 3: industry and trying to make things better with the power 118 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 3: that she has. I think in the documentary Miss Americana, 119 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: somebody says, you know, Taylor Swift is the music industry, 120 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: and it's really hard to talk about any kind of 121 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: aspect of the music industry right now that hasn't had, 122 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 3: you know, some conversation about Taylor Swift. 123 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: I also really want to understand what the role of 124 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: social media is in her success and how has she 125 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: used that differently to other people, because all artists have 126 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: social media, But what is it about how she has 127 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: used it that has meant she has been able to 128 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: cultivate this fan base. 129 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: I think with. 130 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: Taylor, right from the beginning, she's always made a point 131 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: of engaging with the fans and keeping them in the 132 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: loop and really making them a part of her success 133 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: in a way that has meant that a they've come 134 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: along for the journey with her. But now that she's 135 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 3: at this point where she's so huge, she doesn't really 136 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 3: need the media in the same way that a lot 137 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: of other artists do, just given how famous and popular 138 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: she is right now. And so she's got that kind 139 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 3: of direct relationship with her fans where often she'll announce 140 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: things to them for the first time, whether it's on Instagram, 141 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: you know, TikTok, whatever it might be. And I think 142 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 3: having that ability to sort of shape the messaging and 143 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 3: engage directly with the people that are engaging with her music, 144 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 3: I think has been really important, and for things like 145 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 3: when she was having that is she with Scooter Born 146 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 3: and the Masters, is being able to just literally directly 147 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 3: say to the fans like, this is what's happening, this 148 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 3: is where I kind of need your support. And I 149 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: think she's always been very good at mobilizing her fans 150 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 3: that way. And so while other artists definitely use social media, 151 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: I think for some people it's used as more of 152 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: kind of like a broadcast channel where they just sort 153 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: of update people. Think about somebody like Harry Styles, who 154 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 3: you know, has a great relationship with his fans, but 155 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: he doesn't really engage online. He kind of just posts 156 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: updates of what he's doing, and so I think it 157 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: takes a long time to cultivate that, and I think 158 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 3: for Taylor, she's done that right from the beginning, and 159 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: that's why it's working so well for her. 160 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, you're saying that makes me think about how 161 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: I follow Taylor Swift on Instagram, and it feels like 162 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: she's talking directly at me somehow, even though she's speaking 163 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: to hundreds of billions, if not billions, But it genuinely 164 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: feels like the communication style makes her feel like a 165 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: close friend almost, whereas everyone else I follow on social media, 166 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: I don't really feel that close or direct communication for me. 167 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: I think that's what Taylor Swift's strength is, whether it's 168 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: through her music and through her songwriting or through the 169 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: way that she engages with fans online and offline. For me, 170 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: Taylor Swift is just so good at connecting with people. 171 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: She's able to relate to people. You know, you listen 172 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 3: to a Tailor'swift song and there's always somebody who's like, 173 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 3: oh my god, I feel like this was written about me. 174 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: Or as you said, I think in the way that 175 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: she does talk to her fans. She talks to them 176 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: like friends. She doesn't talk to them as I'm this 177 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 3: big celebrity. 178 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's what's so interesting is that she 179 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: feels relatable even though she could not be less relatable. 180 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: I want to move to fan culture more broadly. It 181 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: feels like it is predominantly led by young women and girls. 182 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: Why is that. 183 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: I think a lot of Taylor Swift fans and other 184 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 3: pop music fans are seen or perceived to be, you know, 185 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: predominantly female, and while there. 186 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: Is obviously diversity. 187 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 3: There within any fan community, I think those overarching perceptions 188 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: have over the years often sometimes had a negative impact 189 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: because they're seen as hysterical or delusional, or their fandom 190 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: is like really trivial, because that's just kind of the 191 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: way that we treat women's interests unfortunately in society, is that, 192 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: you know, we just kind of dismissed them compared to 193 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 3: other things. And I think that's definitely shifted over the 194 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: last couple of years with Barbie and with Taylor's Swift, 195 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 3: and I guess with young women sort of coming into 196 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: their own around really celebrating the things that they like 197 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: and celebrating the things that they're interested in. But I 198 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: always find it interesting, obviously when we compare to something 199 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 3: like sports fandom, where we don't have those same kind 200 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 3: of conversations over their fandom being too much or their 201 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 3: expressions of passion being seen as you know, overly emotional, 202 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: for example, in the same way. 203 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: That we might do for pop fans. 204 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: And so yeah, with my research, I'm really interested in 205 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: looking at the ways that fans participate in these communities, 206 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 3: and particularly for young women, how being part of a 207 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 3: fan community can be quite beneficial in terms of that connection, 208 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 3: in terms of building a sense of self and also 209 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: even sort of learning particular skills that then they can 210 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 3: go on to use in you know, the creative industries 211 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 3: or other sort of male dominie industries down the track. 212 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: That comparison between you know, young men or men who 213 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: are obsessed with sport for example, and how we treat 214 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: that compared to how we treat the fans artists like 215 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: Tailor Swift is super interesting. I don't think I've ever 216 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: fully thought about that. 217 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think definitely it's sort of changing, but 218 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 3: I think it's important, you know, particularly as Taylor Swift 219 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: gets to Australia, I have seen already. A lot of 220 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: people say, oh, it's already too much. I'm sick of 221 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: seeing all these fans. I'm sick of seeing you know, 222 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 3: all of this behavior. And I think, you know, unless 223 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 3: you're doing the same thing for people at the football 224 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 3: or at the super Bowl or anything like that, I 225 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: think it's just important to just think about the ways 226 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: that perhaps we have a double standard when it comes 227 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: to the ways that people are passionate about things. 228 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: Just lastly, I've been hearing a lot about how it 229 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: feels like Tailorswift is at the peak of her career 230 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: and how long can this kind of success go on for? 231 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: Do you think that this level of fame can be 232 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: sustained for long periods of time? 233 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I think in terms of Australia, obviously, the 234 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: fact that she's coming here this month means that there's 235 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 3: a real heightened interest in her that I think will 236 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: drop off once she's left from the broader society, obviously, 237 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 3: not for the fans. It's interesting because I think when 238 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 3: we think back to nineteen eighty nine, and you know 239 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 3: that sort of twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen time, a lot 240 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: of people thought that was the peak of Taylor Swift's fame. 241 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: You know, she really was everywhere as well. She'd just 242 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: won the Grammy again, and you know, she was just 243 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: infiltrating the culture in so many ways, and she's really 244 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: eclipsed that over the last year, which I think is 245 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: really interesting. So I think we could never say is 246 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: this the peak, But I think she just has reached 247 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: a level that I think will definitely be hard to top, 248 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 3: both for her and for other people over the next 249 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 3: few years. 250 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: But she's still producing so much music. 251 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 3: She's still wanting to be a creative person and keeping 252 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: producing things. So who knows where the next few years 253 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 3: will take her and if this is something we'll see 254 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: more of over the next few years. 255 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much for joining us on the 256 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: daily ons. 257 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. 258 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening 259 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: to tda's summer series. If you're on break, we hope 260 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: that you are having a relaxing time, and if you're 261 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: still at work, we also hope that you are having 262 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: a great day. We'll be back again tomorrow with another 263 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: episode from our summer series. Until then, have a great day. 264 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 265 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 266 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 267 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 268 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 269 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.