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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley, the Independent Member for Ara Lewin, says the

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Speaker 1: latest integrity crisis plaguing the Northern Territory Labor government is

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Speaker 1: this one involving the Northern Territory's KAC Commissioner has taken

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Speaker 1: another twist now. She says that members of the NTI

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Speaker 1: Legislative Assembly received an email yesterday advising that Paul Kirby,

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Speaker 1: the Member for Port Darwin, was dumped from cabinet in

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Speaker 1: October twenty twenty three. As we know, he wasn't in

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Speaker 1: that role anymore, but he's now mysteriously been appointed to

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Speaker 1: the IKAQ Parliamentary Committee, effective as of yesterday. Robin Lamley

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Speaker 1: joins me on the line. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Robin, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Robin.

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Speaker 3: First off, what exactly is this committee?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was a committee that was formed when IKAQ

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Speaker 2: was formed about five years ago to provide sub scrutiny

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Speaker 2: I suppose of IKAK and to ensure that it's doing

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Speaker 2: what it should do and to take up any issues

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Speaker 2: that arise from the operation of ik.

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Speaker 1: And so since Brent Potter was appointed a minister, has

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Speaker 1: it not sort of been operating or what's been the

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Speaker 1: situation with this committee?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure what the activity of the committee

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Speaker 2: has been, but Brent Potter was on the Ikaq Parliamentary

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Speaker 2: Committee Standing Orders Committee up until he became a minister

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Speaker 2: in December of last year, and that position, which is

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Speaker 2: a government position, has remained vacant until yesterday. Now you

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Speaker 2: know that I don't believe there's any such thing as

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Speaker 2: coincidence as in politics, Katie, and this is no coincidence either.

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Speaker 2: So for some reason, the government yesterday, coinciding with the

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Speaker 2: latest controversy involving the Aikak Commissioner, has decided to appoint

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Speaker 2: Kirby into that position. So what that indicates to me

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Speaker 2: and anyone else has got sort of any understanding of

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Speaker 2: these is that they are intending or probably intending to

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Speaker 2: use that Kaq Parliamentary Committee to undertake some sort of

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Speaker 2: inquiry into what's gone on with the Ikat Commissioner, which

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Speaker 2: is absurd. I mean, we've only got effectively one half

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Speaker 2: day of parliament left after budget estimates here in past

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Speaker 2: the budget and then it's all over red rovers yeah election.

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Speaker 2: So my theory is that they're going to probably refer

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Speaker 2: this matter to the Ikaq Parliamentary Committee for an inquiry

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Speaker 2: which will never never really go anywhere or be effectively concluded. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's just a scapegoat.

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Speaker 3: Well essentially, well, and this is the thing.

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Speaker 1: We're so close to an election now that you know

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Speaker 1: that sort of you really just wonder why on earth

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Speaker 1: that go to the bother of actually doing it. I

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Speaker 1: know that the Chief Minister had sent a statement a

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Speaker 1: little earlier in the week, and I do want to

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Speaker 1: be I want to be careful what I say here

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Speaker 1: in relations, you know, to the NTIK Commissioner, because I

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Speaker 1: know that he has refuted any wrongdoing and and you

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Speaker 1: know has has quite strongly come out and refuted any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 1: But the allegation, as we know, is that the legal

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Speaker 1: documents had been seen by both the ABC and of

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Speaker 1: course the Australian newspaper showing that the NTIK had agreed

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Speaker 1: to pay twenty thousand dollars to his estranged wife at

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Speaker 1: the same time that she then withdrew a domestic violence

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Speaker 1: order against him. Now, as a result, the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: issued a statement.

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Speaker 3: A little earlier.

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Speaker 1: Oh sorry, we seem to have lost. Hopefully we're able

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Speaker 1: to get Robin Lamley back on there. Can you hear

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Speaker 1: us again?

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Speaker 3: Robin.

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Speaker 1: No, for some reason, we seem to have lost Robin Lamley.

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Speaker 1: I'm not too sure exactly what's gone on there. We'll

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Speaker 1: just try once more, Robin, can you hear me?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: We seem to have lost Robin Lamley for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I'm not too sure what's going on with our phone lines,

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Speaker 1: but we'll try to get her back. But what we

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Speaker 1: do know is that the the Chief Minister did issue

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Speaker 1: that statement a little bit earlier in the week and

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Speaker 1: it had said, well, the allegations raised in the media

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Speaker 1: relating to the IKAC Commissioner have been referred to the

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Speaker 1: IKAK Inspector and this process will inform the next steps

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Speaker 1: to ensure the stability.

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Speaker 3: Of the office of the IKAK.

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Speaker 1: I'm immediately requesting the administrator to a point the current

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Speaker 1: Deputy Ikak, Miss Naomi Laden, in the role as the

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Speaker 1: acting IKAQ Commissioner. The Chief Minister continued to say that

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Speaker 1: Miss Laden is currently overseas on planned leave which did

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Speaker 1: commence prior to those allegations being made, and she has

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Speaker 1: been briefed on the matter and will formally commence official

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Speaker 1: duties of the KAC Commissioner from the tenth of June

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Speaker 1: upon her return. Now hopefully I've got Robin back on

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Speaker 1: the line. Robin, are you able to hear me again?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: You yeah, I'm sorry, Robin.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what happened there, But now the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister obviously making this statement and saying that as a

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Speaker 1: result of those allegations raised in the media, that the

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Speaker 1: KA Commissioner has been referred to the inspector and the

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Speaker 1: Deputy is going to step in. Is that the right

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Speaker 1: move from your perspective.

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Speaker 2: Well, it probably is the right move. I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: never had to go down this track before. It's unprecedented,

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Speaker 2: and you're right, I don't think any of us need

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Speaker 2: to comment on what did or didn't happen within the

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Speaker 2: relationship between mister and missus Riches. But what we do

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Speaker 2: know is that he has he paid hush money to

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Speaker 2: his partner, his wife, to ensure that the apprehended violence

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Speaker 2: order application that she apparently intended to lodge be withdrawn,

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Speaker 2: and that happened we're led to believe from the various

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Speaker 2: media reports. Look, Katie, I've got concerns not about what

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Speaker 2: we don't know in terms of his relationship, but just

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Speaker 2: the fact that there's been an OVI is cover up

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Speaker 2: and someone at that level, you know, you don't get

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Speaker 2: more powerful and a more responsible position than the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory Independent Commissioner against corruption the fact that he thought

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Speaker 2: he could get away with trying to hide it, and

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Speaker 2: the government has come out so strongly in recent times

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Speaker 2: in similar situations, remember Josh Bergoy in a few months

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Speaker 2: ago was involved in a car accident and didn't go

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Speaker 2: to the media and didn't go public on it. The

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Speaker 2: nothern Territory Labor government absolutely crucified him when he really

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Speaker 2: did all the right things apart from to go public.

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Speaker 2: Now this is a kind of similar situation, but by

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory IKAC Commissioner involving what has all the

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Speaker 2: hallmarks of a bride to try and stop something going public.

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, I really do. I suppose,

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe this is where some of you know,

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Speaker 1: my own personal experience comes into play.

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Speaker 3: But also I also sort of wonder to myself.

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Speaker 1: Is this a situation where you know, where a relationship

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Speaker 1: is broken down very badly, and you know, without knowing

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Speaker 1: the details of what has gone on there, his job

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Speaker 1: is being weaponized.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, I think absolutely that is the case. But

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Speaker 2: that's the reality of the job that he's in and

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Speaker 2: the job that we are in as politicians. As soon

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Speaker 2: as your partner comes out and makes an allegation of

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Speaker 2: domestic violence against you, pretty much your career is over

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Speaker 2: unless you can absolutely prove otherwise. That is the reality

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Speaker 2: of it, Katie. And he knew that obviously. As soon

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Speaker 2: as his wife applied for this apprehended violence order, he

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Speaker 2: could see the writing on the wall either I stop

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Speaker 2: it or my career is over. But what he didn't

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Speaker 2: think through further was that trying to prove vented and

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Speaker 2: now it's all been uncovered, has probably made the situation

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Speaker 2: worse and his career is over.

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Speaker 3: Look, I've got it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just one of those terrible situations that

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Speaker 2: these allegations will sink you, whether it's domestic violence or

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Speaker 2: inappropriate behavior of a sexual nature or whatever these things

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Speaker 2: think politicians and people in very high positions in the

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Speaker 2: public in the public sphere, and he's going to be

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Speaker 2: he will almost definitely be a victim of this.

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Speaker 1: And look, I've got to say he once again, mister Richards,

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Speaker 1: does refuse any wrongdoing, and I know.

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Speaker 2: That he means to defend himself.

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Speaker 3: He's up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well look, Robin, So just going back to this committee,

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Speaker 1: what do you think that the Northern Territory government is

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Speaker 1: trying to do by appointing Paul Kirby to that parliamentary committee.

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Speaker 2: Now, well, I think they're trying to just sort of

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Speaker 2: refer it off into oblivion basically because this parliamentary committee

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Speaker 2: will become defunct on election day. There'll be a different parliament,

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Speaker 2: maybe a different government, different members of Parliament. It's the

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Speaker 2: work of that committee can be effectively shelved and forgotten about.

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Speaker 2: This is just a diversion and a distraction, that's if

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Speaker 2: they go down this path. And the reason why I

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Speaker 2: came out publicly about it yesterday, Katie, is to call

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Speaker 2: them out on it. This is not the appropriate course

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Speaker 2: of action to deal with the IK Commissioner's problem.

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Speaker 1: Robert, I want to ask you as well this morning

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Speaker 1: about the fact that the peak body representing Aboriginal organizations

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory they've demanded an apology from the

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Speaker 1: government and the top police brass for denying systemic racism

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Speaker 1: in the Northern.

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Speaker 3: Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 1: They're calling for an independent review to be urgently launched.

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Speaker 1: So the Aboriginal Peak organiizations NT have condemned Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: Michael Murphy for his recent admission in the Coronial in Quest.

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Speaker 1: The coalition of organizations including those four Land Councils, the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal Medical Service, Alliance, Aboriginal Housing, Anti Indigenous Business Network

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Speaker 1: and the North.

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Speaker 3: Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency.

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Speaker 1: They've also taken aim at the Police Minister Brent Potter

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Speaker 1: for saying there was presently no systemic racism in the force.

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Speaker 1: And they're also really calling on the Chief Minister to apologize.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the Police Minister, the Commissioner and

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister need to apologize.

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Speaker 2: Of course they do. And the fact that these organizations

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Speaker 2: are asking for it is just beyond the pale, Katie.

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Speaker 2: I mean, surely all three of these these are the

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Speaker 2: most powerful people in the Northern Territory and the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory KA Commissioner in the mix, and you've got the

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Speaker 2: full compliment. Really, I mean, these organizations they're only asking

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Speaker 2: for an apology and for things to be investigated, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's reasonable. I mean, even Laula was on

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Speaker 2: ABC Radio Alla Springs yesterday saying that there's no racism

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory Police Force. There's a problem in

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Speaker 2: the fact that they are ignoring this. They want it

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Speaker 2: to go away, and it's not going to go away.

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Speaker 2: And I think whilst ever you've got Brent Potter as

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Speaker 2: the Minister and now unfortunately Michael Murphy's commissioner, the culture

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Speaker 2: of that organization will never change.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that the Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 1: has an issue with systemic racism?

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Speaker 2: Only from what I read and what I understand and

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Speaker 2: what's in the public sphere. I mean, I'm only going

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Speaker 2: on what everyone else is going I don't have access

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Speaker 2: to any more information than anyone else, but from my perspective, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm not saying that it's it's in every

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Speaker 2: part of the police force, but there is absolutely evidence

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Speaker 2: to suggest that there has been and probably still is

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Speaker 2: racist problems and racist behavior going on within the police force.

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Speaker 2: I mean, someone came out yesterday publicly, I can't think

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Speaker 2: who it was, and said, well, it's not just the

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Speaker 2: police force either, and I'm sure certain Aboriginal leaders within

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory Public Service share that view. I mean,

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Speaker 2: fairly recently you had representatives from the Justice Service saying

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Speaker 2: it's that effect, and the government undertook to undertake audits

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Speaker 2: of racism throughout the Northern Territory Public Service and within

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Speaker 2: the government agencies. So they have acknowledged already. Leanne Little

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Speaker 2: came out remember, probably about a year or two ago

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Speaker 2: and said that systemic racism has right throughout the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory public service. So this isn't new, Katie, but you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it just takes it to a whole new

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Speaker 2: level when you've got a police minister as recently as

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen posting highly racist, offensive stuff on Facebook just

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Speaker 2: a few years ago. Recently you've got a police commissioner

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Speaker 2: who lied about racist issues within a coronial inquest and

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Speaker 2: said he forgot to follow up certain referrals or allegations

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Speaker 2: that were made last year. I mean, this is just

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Speaker 2: wrong and I think you unfortunately, we need to clean

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Speaker 2: out of those two people from those two positions. We

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Speaker 2: need to reset, we need to start again. And the

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Speaker 2: only person who can really trigger out is Eva Laula,

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Speaker 2: and she seems complicit in the whole thing too.

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Speaker 1: Well, Robin Lamley, we are going to have to leave

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Speaker 1: it there unfortunately, appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk to you again soon. When are you back

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Speaker 3: in Darwin.

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Speaker 2: I'm back on the weekend for the start of budget estimates.

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Speaker 2: Here in this course few weeks of grilling each minister

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Speaker 2: one by one and finding out what's really going on

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Speaker 2: inside government. I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we'll be catching up with you next week,

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of things, Robin, thank you, as always,

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Speaker 1: thank you.