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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Hello and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Daily OS. It is Monday, the twenty

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Speaker 1: fourth of June.

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Speaker 2: I'm Billy, I'm Sam.

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Speaker 1: Last week, the Coalition announced a new nuclear energy policy,

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Speaker 1: specifically if it wins the next election, which will be

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Speaker 1: held at some point before May next year. Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Peter Dunnan says the Coalition will plan to build seven

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Speaker 1: nuclear power plants. Now, nuclear power has been banned in

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Speaker 1: Australia since nineteen ninety eight, but the Coalition wants to

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Speaker 1: reverse that ban. This announcement has caused a big stir

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Speaker 1: in Canberra, particularly amongst the current government. We will break

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Speaker 1: it down for you in today's podcast. But for Sam,

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Speaker 1: what is making headlines today?

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Speaker 2: A major shopping center in Adelaide was sent into lockdown

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Speaker 2: yesterday following reports of a person in the center. Videos

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Speaker 2: and photos uploaded to social media show shoppers running out

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Speaker 2: of the Westfield Marion shopping center as signs in the

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Speaker 2: center displayed a message instructing them to quote, escape, hide

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Speaker 2: and tell due to quote an armed offender. SA Ambulance

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Speaker 2: said it was treating two patients who both sustained non

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Speaker 2: life threatening injuries.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen people have been arrested in connection to an alleged

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Speaker 1: illicit tobacco trafficking ring worth around ten million dollars. It

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Speaker 1: comes after a joint operation between the Australian Border Force

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Speaker 1: WA and Victorian Police and WA Health Authority sees nearly

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Speaker 1: six million illegal cigarettes, one point seven million dollars in cash,

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Speaker 1: one point four tons of loose tobacco and forty one

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Speaker 1: thousand vapes after searches of private residences, storage units and

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Speaker 1: retail stores in Perth and Regional WA.

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Speaker 2: Australia has suffered a shock loss to Afghanistan at the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty World Cup, meaning they will have to beat

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Speaker 2: India in order to progress in the tournament. It was

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Speaker 2: the first time Afghanistan have beaten Australia in international cricket

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Speaker 2: and could progress at Australia's expense should they beat Bangladesh

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Speaker 2: and Australia lose to India. Pat Cummens starred for Australia,

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Speaker 2: taking his second hat trick in as many matches. Afghanistan's

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Speaker 2: star bowler Guberdin Naib said after the match his team

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Speaker 2: quote had waited for this moment for a long time

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Speaker 2: and their journey as a top tier international cricket team

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Speaker 2: quote starts now.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news. One of the rarest cats in

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Speaker 1: the world, the Iberian lynx, is no longer classified as endangered.

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Speaker 1: That's according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature,

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Speaker 1: also known as the IUCN. The Iberian lynx lives mostly

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Speaker 1: in parts of Portugal and Spain. The wildcat was on

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Speaker 1: the iuc AND Red list of threatened species, but has

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Speaker 1: been reclassified from endangered to vulnerable. Its population has increased

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Speaker 1: from sixty two mature cats in two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: to six hundred and forty eight in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so, Billy, the coalition announced this new nuclear energy

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Speaker 2: policy last week. We're going to talk about it today.

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Speaker 2: But I think for a lot of people, especially young people,

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Speaker 2: the extent of our nuclear energy education starts and stops

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Speaker 2: with Homo Simpson. He worked at a nuclear power plant

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Speaker 2: alongside his trustees, sidekick a frosted doughnut. There's a problem

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Speaker 2: with the reactor. What are you doing? There's a problem

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Speaker 2: with the reactor. To die. But there has to be

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Speaker 2: more to this than Homer And now it seems to

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Speaker 2: have quite a prominent role in the climate change discussion.

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Speaker 2: So first, can you just explain what exactly nuclear energy is.

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Speaker 1: I'll try my best to explain it better than Homo Simpson,

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Speaker 1: but no promises. So nuclear energy is produced through this

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Speaker 1: process of fission where atoms, which are just tiny bits

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Speaker 1: of matter, are heated and split into many different parts.

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Speaker 1: And the process is normally fueled by uranium, which starts

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Speaker 1: this chain reaction where heat is created before a cooling

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Speaker 1: agent like water is used and that produces steam. Now

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Speaker 1: that's steam then spins machines called turbines, which generate electricity.

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Speaker 1: It all kind of sounds like a ETN science class,

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Speaker 1: but basically what you need to know is it's the

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Speaker 1: same kind of principle that goes into making the atomic bomb,

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Speaker 1: but it's obviously used for very different purposes. And the

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Speaker 1: main difference is the speed at which the energy is released.

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Speaker 1: In a nuclear reactor it is really slowly, and in

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Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb it is released really quickly, pretty much instantly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So there's a big process that produces these tiny

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Speaker 2: bits of matter that's heated up, split up, makes some steam,

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Speaker 2: makes the wind turbines go round. That's kind of the

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Speaker 2: that's the Homo Simpson explanation for it. So is it

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Speaker 2: considered renewable energy.

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Speaker 1: Then no, it is not considered renewable energy. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: this process is fueled by something called uranium, and Australia

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Speaker 1: actually has one of the world's biggest uranium reserves, so

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Speaker 1: we have lots of it. But it is a finite resource,

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Speaker 1: so there is limited supply of it around the world.

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Speaker 1: And the definition of renewable is energy that comes from

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Speaker 1: a source that won't run out. So for that reason,

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Speaker 1: nuclear energy is not considered renewable. Also, although nuclear power

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Speaker 1: doesn't produce greenhouse gases, it does produce radioactive waste.

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Speaker 2: Right. Okay, so you've got something that isn't strictly I renewable,

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Speaker 2: but it actually is banned in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Right Yeah, So, like I mentioned in the intro, it

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Speaker 1: has been banned in Australia since nineteen ninety eight. And

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Speaker 1: this came after multiple disasters, some were intentional and some

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Speaker 1: were accidental during the twentieth century, and that included Hiroshima

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Speaker 1: and Nagasaki nuclear bombs in World War Two, and then

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Speaker 1: also there was the Chernobyl meltdown in Ukraine, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people might recognize that from the very famous series

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Speaker 1: that was created a few years ago, and that was

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Speaker 1: the worst nuclear accident in history. About thirty people died

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Speaker 1: at the time. But then also the radiation poisoning from

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Speaker 1: that disaster is estimated to have caused thousands of deaths

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Speaker 1: in the years since. And this obviously sparked large concerns worldwide,

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Speaker 1: including in Australia, about nuclear power and radioactive waste.

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Speaker 2: I feel like another good reference point for everybody's Oppenheimer

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Speaker 2: the film that came out last year which kind of

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Speaker 2: covered that period of history. Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so in the late nineteen nineties, Australia's federal government

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Speaker 1: legislated a nationwide ban on building nuclear facilities. And this

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Speaker 1: ban is actually quite rare. Australia is one of only

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Speaker 1: just a few wealthy developed countries that don't have nuclear

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Speaker 1: power and that has a nationwide ban. Important to note, though,

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Speaker 1: we do have one operational nuclear site in South Sydney,

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Speaker 1: but that is used for research and not to generate energy.

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Speaker 1: As the Coalition is now wanting Australia to do. One

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Speaker 1: other thing to mention before we move on, is that

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Speaker 1: at the time of the national ban in nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty inconsequential because we didn't need it because

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Speaker 1: we were so aligned on coal and gas at the time.

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Speaker 1: But the reason why it's coming up now is because

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Speaker 1: the country is trying to shift to wards other ways

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Speaker 1: of generating energy because you know, at a very basic level,

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Speaker 1: colon gas is not good for the environment and it's

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Speaker 1: also a finite resource. So this is all part of

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Speaker 1: Australia's plan of how to shift away from colon gas.

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Speaker 2: And all of this came up in the political sphere

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Speaker 2: when the Coalition kind of sprouts the development of nuclear

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Speaker 2: power as an alternative way for Australia to reach its

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Speaker 2: obligations of net zero in twenty fifty. This isn't the

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Speaker 2: first time they've pitched nuclear though, right, not at all.

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Speaker 1: The Coalition has been spooking the development of nuclear power

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Speaker 1: as an alternative to gas and coal since it lost

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two federal elections, so it's been about

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Speaker 1: two years now. I've been hearing this from them, and

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Speaker 1: they believe that nuclear technology is needed to achieve net

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Speaker 1: zero emissions by twenty fifty. So, just to give you

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Speaker 1: some context, both the Coalition and the Labor Party, who

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Speaker 1: are the two major parties in Australia. They have the

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Speaker 1: same goal of achieving net zero emissions by twenty fifty,

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Speaker 1: but what they disagree on is how to get there.

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Speaker 2: Right and what technology to use exactly.

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Speaker 1: So they disagree on the whole range of things in

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Speaker 1: this area of how but one of the key areas

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Speaker 1: is nuclear. The Liberal Party believes that we need nuclear

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Speaker 1: power to get there and the Labor Party doesn't.

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Speaker 2: And so the coalition came out last week and gave

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Speaker 2: us a bit more detail on how they would actually

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Speaker 2: implement a nuclear policy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so last Wednesday, Opposition leader Peter Dudden announced plans

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Speaker 1: to build seven nuclear reactors and he plans to build

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Speaker 1: these at existing power plants that are scheduled to close.

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Speaker 1: So his plan is to convert existing infrastructure into nuclear

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Speaker 1: power plants, right, so think of like a closing coal

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Speaker 1: mine turning that into a nuclear energy plan. And he

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Speaker 1: says that these sites are already equipped with cooling water

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Speaker 1: and transmission lines needed for nuclear reactors. So basically he

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Speaker 1: says they're in prime position and have the prime infrastructure

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Speaker 1: to make this transition.

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Speaker 2: So he's basically pitched us an energy version of the

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Speaker 2: block taking something old and turning it into a nuclear plant.

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Speaker 1: That's a very sam comparison.

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Speaker 2: Y Cam's going to take us through the process. But

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Speaker 2: on the serious note, why does the Coalition say we

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Speaker 2: actually need this.

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Speaker 1: At a very basic level, it's because they say that

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Speaker 1: we are running out of energy.

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Speaker 2: Which is a pretty bipartisan approach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no disputing that we need a transition to occur,

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Speaker 1: but the Coalition claims that nuclear energy is the best

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Speaker 1: way for this transition to occur, and they claim that

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Speaker 1: nuclear energy would alleviate disruptions to energy supply as Australia

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Speaker 1: makes this transition. But like you said, there is no

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Speaker 1: disputing that there will be shortages. Even just last week,

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Speaker 1: with many cold records being broken in Australia, there was

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Speaker 1: discussion of a shortage happening. The Coalition also argues that

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Speaker 1: if we get started now, Australia could benefit from nuclear

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Speaker 1: energy for eighty years to come and that it would

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Speaker 1: provide more consistent electricity for the country. And that's the

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Speaker 1: key word that they're using, consistent, because, like we just said,

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Speaker 1: they having shortages.

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Speaker 2: So let's say the Coalition does win the next election.

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Speaker 2: You said sometime before May. What would the timeline be

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Speaker 2: then on nuclear program rolling out in Australia.

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Speaker 1: So Dudden says that the first sites would be operational

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Speaker 1: between twenty thirty five and twenty.

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Speaker 2: Thirty seven, so relatively soon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the next ten to fifteen years. But that's

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Speaker 1: depending on whether smaller modular reactors or larger scale plants

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Speaker 1: are deemed quote the best option. Now, this is really

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Speaker 1: interesting that they are considering larger plants because when The

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Speaker 1: Daily Oz actually spoke to Dudden last year, he said

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Speaker 1: that larger scale plants were completely out of the question.

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Speaker 1: I didn't support the establishment of big nuclear facilities here

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: I'm opposed to it.

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Speaker 1: But for the small modular reactors, we can have them

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Speaker 1: essentially replacing brown field sites. Now. So again the keyword

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Speaker 1: here is that larger scale plant conversation, because this new

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Speaker 1: announcement is a departure from what they were previously seeing.

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Speaker 2: Interesting and there's quite a reversal. There's kind of, you know,

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Speaker 2: quite absolute language used in that statement. So that's that's

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Speaker 2: an interesting clip. What would the costs of this be?

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Speaker 2: No idea, right, do not know.

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Speaker 1: The coalition hasn't explained that part of its policy yet

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Speaker 1: Dudden says that we will know the costings though very soon.

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Speaker 1: That's up for interpretation what very soon means. But what

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Speaker 1: we do know is two things. The first is that

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Speaker 1: nuclear is renowned for being extremely extremely expensive. Last month,

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Speaker 1: the National Science Agency, the CSIRO found that quote, nuclear

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Speaker 1: is currently the most expensive type of electricity to generate.

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Speaker 1: So they estimated that nuclear power would cost roughly twice

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Speaker 1: as much as renewable energy and take at least fifteen

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Speaker 1: years to come online. Although the Coalition, as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: thinks so that we could have nuclear power operational by

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty five, so there is some disputing, but nevertheless,

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Speaker 1: at least a decade we're talking. But the second thing

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Speaker 1: is that in all of the press releases and press

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Speaker 1: conferences from the coalition last week, they said that nuclear

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Speaker 1: will deliver quote cheaper electricity costs for Australia. How those

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Speaker 1: things to marry up don't yet know. My understanding is

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Speaker 1: that nuclear power plants are very expensive to build, but

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Speaker 1: are actually relatively cheap to run and operate. But like

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Speaker 1: I said, Dudden is saying that more information about the

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Speaker 1: costings will be available soon.

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Speaker 2: And so if we go across the Aisle. Then, what

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Speaker 2: has the response from the current government being so.

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Speaker 1: Labour, who is currently in government, has long been against

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Speaker 1: nuclear energy. Before Dudden's announcement, Treasurer Jim Chalmers described the

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Speaker 1: coalition stance as quote the dumbest policy ever put forward

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Speaker 1: by a major party, no mincing the words there, but

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Speaker 1: in terms of more substance from their actual criticisms, I

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Speaker 1: understand there have been basically two main criticisms of this policy.

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Speaker 1: The first is that it's way too expensive, as we

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Speaker 1: mentioned before, but also they say b it will take

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Speaker 1: too long and we don't have that time to wait

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Speaker 1: to build this supply. They say that we need the

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Speaker 1: supply now, so their strategy is more focused on renewable energy.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The federal government isn't the only government opposed to it.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the state governments have come out.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole another level of antacity there.

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Speaker 1: A number of them have also come out and said

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Speaker 1: that they are against it. So, just to give you

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Speaker 1: an example, New South Wales Premier Chris Minn said his

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Speaker 1: state won't lift its own ban on nuclear reactors. He

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Speaker 1: called them quote very expensive and Minn said it was

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Speaker 1: quote very unclear if the coalition's plan is feasible. Another

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Speaker 1: criticism came from the Queensland opposition leader, who leads the

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Speaker 1: Liberal National Party. Reminder that Peter Dudden is from the

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Speaker 1: Liberal Party, so a bit more in the same party

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Speaker 1: lines here, but he said that nuclear energy is quote

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Speaker 1: not part of our plan and that is noteworthy because

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Speaker 1: his party is tipped to win the state election, which

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Speaker 1: will happen in October.

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Speaker 2: So, Billy, you're a political thinker, you watch Australian politics

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Speaker 2: very carefully. We've just had a really interesting two weeks

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Speaker 2: where both parties have said very strong things to each

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Speaker 2: other about climate policy. Do you expect this to continue

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Speaker 2: to be a major election topic?

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Speaker 1: I think so, And I think it's one of those

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Speaker 1: rare topics that I don't actually fully know what young

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Speaker 1: people think, and so I want to put in the

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Speaker 1: show notes a pole to understand what does our audience

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Speaker 1: think about nuclear energy. I'm really interested. I think when

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Speaker 1: it comes to you know, climate change and cost of living,

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Speaker 1: we have a really strong understanding of what the population thinks.

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Speaker 2: And we have an understanding that people are concerned by it.

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Speaker 2: But this is now more a solutions based proposition exactly.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think we'll be really fascinating to know

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Speaker 1: what our audience thinks. I know that Peter Dunnan has

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Speaker 1: said that he's happy for this next election to be

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Speaker 1: a referendum on nuclear energy.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, so it's a big topic and it's one

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Speaker 2: that we're going to keep you on top of as

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Speaker 2: listeners of TDA. Thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 2: on today's pod. I will throw a link to that

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Speaker 2: question in today's show notes. Billy, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for taking us through that, and we'll speak to you

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Speaker 2: again tomorrow morning. My name is Lily Madden and I'm

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Speaker 2: a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalgutin woman from Gadigal Country.

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Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast ust is recorded

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Speaker 1: on the lands of the Gadigal people and pays respect

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Speaker 1: to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 1: past and present.