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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers Now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: this is doctor Justin Colson.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for choosing to listen to the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families Podcast today. Tarren Brumfort, you may be familiar

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Speaker 2: with the name after last week's announcement of the Australian

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Speaker 2: of the Year.

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Speaker 3: It's about the way that we feel about all of ourselves,

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Speaker 3: our skin color, our height, our age, our gender. When

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Speaker 3: you take your final breath on this earth, what thoughts

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Speaker 3: will be going through your mind? And no one has

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Speaker 3: ever said to me the size of their bum.

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Speaker 2: Tarren Brumfort, an Adelaide documentary maker and activist, has been

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Speaker 2: not just nominated, but actually proclaimed.

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Speaker 1: To the Australian of the Year because of her work.

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Speaker 2: Around the way we view our bodies. What you may

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Speaker 2: not know is that Taran joined me just over a

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Speaker 2: year ago to talk about this very topic in the

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Speaker 2: Misconnection Summit. You can find the sum online and you

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Speaker 2: can purchase it and listen to all of the amazing content,

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Speaker 2: the incredible talks to help you if you're raising a

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Speaker 2: teenage girl today with the weld, the everyday challenges that

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Speaker 2: we're facing. But in the Misconnection Summit, I was talking

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Speaker 2: with Tara and about all the stuff that she's now

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Speaker 2: the Australian of the Year four and we started off

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Speaker 2: our conversation by talking about how difficult body image challenges

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Speaker 2: are right now for young people and how they're different

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Speaker 2: for boys and girls.

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Speaker 1: This is what she had to say.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, well, it's not great when you look at the

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Speaker 3: situation that is, but it's also actually no surprise either

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Speaker 3: because we live in a world that really doesn't support

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Speaker 3: anyone to have a positive relationship with their body. But

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Speaker 3: I don't want to paint a disastrous picture here because

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Speaker 3: I want us to feel a little light and with

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Speaker 3: some hope when we leave this call. It's not like

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Speaker 3: we've got this big problem and we don't have any

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Speaker 3: solutions to it, like we actually do. I think for

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Speaker 3: us to change and for us to navigate this landscape,

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Speaker 3: we need to understand what is going on out there and.

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Speaker 4: What's at play.

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Speaker 3: We have these industries that are preying on our insecurities.

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Speaker 3: Is their trillion dollar industries beauty, cosmetic, diet, and what

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Speaker 3: they're doing is they're setting us up to have problems

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Speaker 3: and for our girls as well. And you know, these

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Speaker 3: problems that I refer to, they aren't actually problems in

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Speaker 3: the first place. But these industries are offering products to

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Speaker 3: problems that don't exist.

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Speaker 4: And it's all about the dollar. And I think if we.

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Speaker 3: Can understand what's at play, who's delivering the messages, the

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Speaker 3: why behind the messages, it makes it a whole lot

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Speaker 3: less powerful when.

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Speaker 4: They're coming at us, if we can see it for

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Speaker 4: what it is.

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Speaker 3: So I think if we lived in a world that

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Speaker 3: celebrated bodies and different shapes and sizes and abilities, we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have these issues. So I think the first thing

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Speaker 3: that we really need to do is go, yes, it's

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Speaker 3: a big problem.

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Speaker 4: You only need to walk down.

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Speaker 3: A shopping mall, which I do on occasion with my

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Speaker 3: own kids, and I remember when they were younger, I

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Speaker 3: almost just wanted to cover their eyes and like, don't

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Speaker 3: look at this, but we needed to go shopping.

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Speaker 4: But it's just we do get bombarded by these images.

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Speaker 3: I think the key is to understand where they're coming

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Speaker 3: from and the why that sits behind them.

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Speaker 4: And it's the dollar. It's money they're making money from

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Speaker 4: making us feel crap.

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Speaker 3: I guess what I really want people to walk away

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Speaker 3: after watching this knowing is that we weren't born into

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Speaker 3: the world hating our bodies. We have learned this as

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Speaker 3: a behavior. It wasn't meant to be our life purpose.

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Speaker 3: To hate on our body.

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Speaker 4: And be at war with our body is just not

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Speaker 4: the way it's meant to be.

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Speaker 3: So if we can just take a moment, take it

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Speaker 3: step back, think about is the relationship that I have

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Speaker 3: I'm having with my body is it serving me? Do

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Speaker 3: I feel good when I go out into the world.

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Speaker 3: And if the answer is no, then what are you

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Speaker 3: going to do differently? And I think taking taking stock

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Speaker 3: of what's going on will help. Now you gave me

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Speaker 3: a double barrel question, which I think is quite cruel.

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Speaker 3: For the first question, and just before we started, everyone

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Speaker 3: Justin's like, are you shuffling papers? I'm like, oh gosh,

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Speaker 3: yes I am, because I always have to take notes

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Speaker 3: because I've got so much I want to I want

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Speaker 3: to say, so occasionally you're going to hear a little

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Speaker 3: paper shuffle everyone, but just just go with me. The

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Speaker 3: second point of that question was about boys and girls.

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Speaker 3: There are different pressures. Boys have this pressure to be

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Speaker 3: to be manly, to be tall, to be strong and

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Speaker 3: girls to be pretty. I remember at the Adelaide Airport once.

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Speaker 3: I remember walking through and there was a surfwear label

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Speaker 3: and there was two advertisements, both promoting the same piece

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Speaker 3: of clothing.

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Speaker 4: And for the guys they were doing on the.

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Speaker 3: Surfboard, and for the girls they were like looking at

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Speaker 3: the surfboard but looking pretty. And I just I stopped

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Speaker 3: in my tracks and I looked at this, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, and there is the problem. We teach our

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Speaker 3: boys often to do and be adventurous, and we often

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Speaker 3: tell our girls to look a certain way. So it's

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Speaker 3: no surprise that we've sort of ended up where we've

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Speaker 3: ended up.

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Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that before,

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Speaker 2: and I've done a lot of thinking around this area.

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Speaker 2: But it's actually as a different message, isn't it. Guys

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Speaker 2: are always active, Guys are using their bodies. Girls don't

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Speaker 2: use their bodies except in an ornamental way. They have

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Speaker 2: to look particularly. I'm not trying to do this for

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Speaker 2: product place, but everyone knows that I've written the book,

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Speaker 2: so I'm not trying to sort of give myself a

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Speaker 2: plug here, but I'd love to share something.

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Speaker 1: As I was listening to what you said.

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Speaker 2: I really when I wrote this book, I talked to

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Speaker 2: more than four hundred Australian girls about what it is

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Speaker 2: to be a teenager. And given there it's been a

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Speaker 2: long time since I was a teenager and I've never

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Speaker 2: been a girl, this was really eye opening for me,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm raising six daughters of my own. And

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Speaker 2: when the body image questions came up, I developed three rules.

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Speaker 2: They're not one hundred percent iron clad, but they're pretty

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Speaker 2: close and I'd love to hear what you think about them.

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Speaker 2: Based on what you've just said in my data and

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Speaker 2: what I heard in my conversations where body image was

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Speaker 2: raised as an issue, these three themes consistently showed up.

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Speaker 2: Number One, a girl's body predicts which social groups she

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Speaker 2: can belong to. If you want to be popular, you

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Speaker 2: have to be hot. Number two, the combination of a

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Speaker 2: girl's body and her social group impacts her identity. In

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Speaker 2: other words, I'll feel good about myself and who I'm

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Speaker 2: becoming if my body is hot and I'm in the

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Speaker 2: cool group. And number three, social media and media the

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Speaker 2: superpermore generally, which would include surf shops that have got

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Speaker 2: these big billboards and what have you. They set the

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Speaker 2: standard for what's hot, and therefore who's popular, and therefore

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Speaker 2: what a girl should feel about herself. Does that resonate

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Speaker 2: for you?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely it does. I mean, here's the thing about if.

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Speaker 3: We unpack it, this was going to come later, I

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Speaker 3: think in the conversation, but I think it's good to

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Speaker 3: go there now, this whole beauty ideal. And again I'm

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Speaker 3: doing the same, I'm not plugging. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: would have seen Embrace the documentary, and it's free on

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Speaker 3: Netflix right now. We go through beauty through the ages,

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Speaker 3: what it was like to be a woman in her

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Speaker 3: twenties in nineteen twenties, sorry not in her twenties, when

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Speaker 3: the pressure was to be thinned straight up and down,

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Speaker 3: small breasts, and then in the nineteen fifties it was

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Speaker 3: about having a voluptuous body and larger breasts and a

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Speaker 3: cinched waist. And then in the eighties it was the

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Speaker 3: supermodel where it was very athletic bodies, and there was

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Speaker 3: the nineties the waife.

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Speaker 4: Look, if you stop.

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Speaker 3: To think about how preposterous it is that somebody, you know,

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Speaker 3: these industries are like, well, this is what we're going

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Speaker 3: to determine this decade to be beautiful, and to everybody

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Speaker 3: who doesn't fall into this construct, you're not going to

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Speaker 3: be very happy with your body because you know this

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Speaker 3: is where it's at. And I just I liken that too,

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Speaker 3: sort of when people get on TV and they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: this season you should wear, It's like, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 3: wear what I want this season. Like I'm not a sheep.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to follow someone else's trend. And I

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Speaker 3: think if we can encourage our girls and really challenge

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Speaker 3: ourselves as human beings as to why we perhaps like

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Speaker 3: something then and then challenge our girls to really pave

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Speaker 3: their own way and make up their own rules, it's

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Speaker 3: like see it and I'm sorry I digress here, but

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Speaker 3: I've been very much in creative mode. I think visually

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Speaker 3: is everybody but Sea would have been told to have

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Speaker 3: taken the wig off by a thousand different people it will.

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Speaker 4: Ruin your career, and she didn't. She did it her way.

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Speaker 3: And I think there is such power in defining what

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Speaker 3: beauty means to you. And when I was in New

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Speaker 3: York filming a few years ago, I met some of

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Speaker 3: the Victoria's Secrets models, and I have.

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Speaker 4: To say when I chatted with them, and only a couple.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sort of saying this broadly, but these were

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Speaker 3: women that people would look at on Instagram and be like,

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Speaker 3: oh my.

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Speaker 4: Gosh, you are so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: And I tell you what, I didn't have one beautiful

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Speaker 3: word come out of their mouth, or there was no

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Speaker 3: interaction with them that was nice in any way, shape

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Speaker 3: or form. It was just it was very cold and

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Speaker 3: just not beautiful, if you know what I'm saying. So

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Speaker 3: I think we really need to turn upside down this

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Speaker 3: notion of what beauty actually means. And it has nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with how someone looks. It's got to do

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Speaker 3: with the energy exchange and how someone makes you feel.

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Speaker 2: I really love. We need to actually rediscover that concept

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Speaker 2: of what beauty is. I might even get weepy when

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Speaker 2: I think about this, but my wife's smiling at me.

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Speaker 2: That's beauty. Looking at her eyes, I just go, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is magic to me, this is gorgeous. I've got

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Speaker 2: footage of my kids up until about the age of

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Speaker 2: eight or nine, So as I mentioned six daughters, I've

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Speaker 2: got footage of them and photos of them running around

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Speaker 2: the pool. They're playing their goofing off up until the

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Speaker 2: age of nine or ten. They don't even think about

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Speaker 2: how they look. They've got the sticky addy tummies. They're

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Speaker 2: wearing what it is comfortable, or they're not wearing anything

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Speaker 2: at all, because like when they're kids, who cares, right,

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Speaker 2: their hair's crazy, they're living life. Young kids, they don't

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Speaker 2: even think about what beauty is, and there's someone affected

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Speaker 2: by how they look and they just stoked about what

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Speaker 2: their bodies can do.

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Speaker 1: What have you seen about.

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Speaker 2: When kids start to lose this and start to think

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Speaker 2: about beauty and how do we stop them from losing it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done a lot of thinking on this, and

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Speaker 3: I think and this is anecdotally, this is from my

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Speaker 3: experience in my circles and knowing exactly what.

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Speaker 4: You're talking about, and there's a great sense of loss.

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Speaker 3: Especially when you've seen your own kids, where you're like,

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Speaker 3: something's changing.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: My kids are now fifteen, thirteen, eleven, and nine, so

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of right in the spot of seeing changes

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Speaker 3: in changes, praying for changes not to happen from the

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Speaker 3: younger ones.

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Speaker 4: But it does.

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Speaker 3: I wonder whether it's because as their parents, we are

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Speaker 3: their kings and queens and they are taking everything that

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Speaker 3: we say and do in there, they're like sponges and

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Speaker 3: they're absorbing.

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Speaker 4: I wonder whether they.

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Speaker 3: Adopt some of our philosophies as adults, because having spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time with adults, I find that there's

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Speaker 3: the missing part for a lot of people's lives. Is

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Speaker 3: the joy, is the play, is the sparkle, is the

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Speaker 3: having fun. And we seem too as adults, go, oh,

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Speaker 3: we can't do certain things because of some strange rules

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Speaker 3: that says that you're too old to wear that, or

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Speaker 3: you're too old to do that. And I wonder as

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Speaker 3: kids get wiser and older, they're starting to tap into it.

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Speaker 3: So when I think about this and that loss, I

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Speaker 3: mean justin you're you're the parenting expert here, but I

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Speaker 3: would suggest they've got a lot going on in their

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Speaker 3: brains that they're trying to navigate at that same time

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 4: And this might seem like a little bit of fluffy advice,

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Speaker 4: but I.

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Speaker 3: Really think it can walk alongside the guidance that you

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Speaker 3: would give.

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Speaker 4: But it's be the role model for fun. Fun is infectious.

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Speaker 3: You know, get the kids out there having adventures and

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Speaker 3: doing things with their bodies. I think when we're doing

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Speaker 3: have you ever heard of the big Wedgie. It's a slide,

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Speaker 3: like it's a massive water slide.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard of it, but it sounds awful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah it does.

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Speaker 3: And when they say big big Weggie, they really mean it.

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Speaker 4: It's really big weggie.

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Speaker 3: But I took my kids there recently and instead of

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Speaker 3: the three of them heading off and going down, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm coming as well. And as I

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Speaker 3: was sliding down, because I'm really heightened to how they're feeling.

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Speaker 4: And you know, as a parent, you are like, is

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Speaker 4: everyone okay? I'm probably that parent. Everyone every fun is

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Speaker 4: everything perfect to Harwood. But I was looking at my child.

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Speaker 3: As he was sliding down, and I was like, oh, right,

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Speaker 3: there is the joy.

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Speaker 4: There is the moment.

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Speaker 3: And he was not, and nor was my daughter thinking

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Speaker 3: about their tummy or their thighs, or the fact that

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Speaker 3: one was short.

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Speaker 4: He wanted to be talld nothing in that moment. So

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Speaker 4: I think if we can be very aware as.

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Speaker 3: Parents to make the time for adventure and what I

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Speaker 3: call sparkle activities, which is the things that you do

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Speaker 3: that give you a rush, I think it will have

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Speaker 3: an impact.

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Speaker 5: Diyaking, that is the Australian of the Year for twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty three, Taran Brumfort.

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Speaker 1: Taran joined me for the mis Connection Summit.

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Speaker 2: You can hear the entire conversation by going to Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot Au and downloading the Misconnection Summit.

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Speaker 1: Just google it and it will pop up in your feed.

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Speaker 2: Loads of great conversations with inspiring and pretty incredible people,

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Speaker 2: just like our Australian of the Year, Tarran Brumfort joining

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Speaker 2: us on the Happy Families podcast. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for listening today. I can't wait to be with you

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Speaker 2: again tomorrow as we talk about more things sort of

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Speaker 2: food and body related. I'm going to be catching up

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Speaker 2: with deb Blakely from Kids Dig Food talking about what

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Speaker 2: to do about kids fussiness over lunchboxes. The Happy Families

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Speaker 2: Podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: For more information about making your family happier, check us

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Speaker 2: out at Happy families dot com dot Au.