1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: This is jam Nation with Jonesy. 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 2: Just last week we spoke with real estate guru Railis 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: about difficulties renters are facing in New South Wales. Increases 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: in prices, a competitive market, the uncertainty that comes with renting. 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: One man who wants to deliver a fair of rental rules, 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: a series of rules for renters and owners, and he 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: wants to be also the next leader of our state. 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: It's leader of the New South Wales Labor Party. Chris Mins. Hello, Chris, 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: how are you goodman? J z Hey Chris, and today 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: apparently you want to make a big announcement that you 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: say could be a game changer for rentals renters. Tell 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:35,639 Speaker 2: us about that. 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're an anti apportable bond scheme. So basically what 14 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: that means is, rather than you having to dip into 15 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: your pocket if your lease is extinguished and you have 16 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: to go and find a new property, your bond will 17 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: be held by the New South Wales Rental Bond Board, 18 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: which means you don't have to dip in your pocket 19 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: to get that two thousand dollars that you might need 20 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: for the new title. And if you consider that, to 21 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: move properties in New South Wales costs around four thousand 22 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: dollars every time you move. We hope that this is 23 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: in effective way of saving some money in a really 24 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: tight at financial market when people are obviously finding it 25 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: very difficult to make ends meet. 26 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: Because this is one of the things we discussed last 27 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: week is we tend to forget that over a third 28 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: of Australian's rent. All our TV shows and our pop 29 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: culture or all of our ethos is about owning your 30 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: own home. But a third of Australians are in this 31 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: scenario without rental security, with as you say, an expensive 32 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: time every time they have to change locations, maybe change schools. 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: There's no security in renting in the same way they 34 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: might be in europeek and rent for years and years. 35 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: It's tough, isn't it. 36 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely And the other part of it is we're going 37 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: to look at ways to clarifying the rules by which 38 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: a owner of a property can end a lease agreement 39 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: like they've got in every single other state other than 40 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: New South Wales and Amanda. You're absolutely right. There's over 41 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty thousand renters in this state, a 42 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: growth of seventeen percent in just the last few years, 43 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: and we've got the weakest protections in the most expensive market, 44 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: so we've got to make changes. 45 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: And there's a lot of talk Chris about the pros 46 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 3: and cons of land tax versus stamp duty. So firstly 47 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: with land tax, for example, have you had a house 48 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 3: Mum and dad had a house and then it's worth 49 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: a lot of money, so that's worth for million bucks, 50 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 3: Does that mean that they'll have to pay tax on that? 51 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: You know? 52 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 3: Can it be retrospective or no? 53 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: Jonesie To be fair to the government, their plan is 54 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: for first home buyers only, but we've never had a 55 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: land tax on family home in New South Wales ever before, 56 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: and that's really what our reluctance about this measure is 57 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: all about. One of the reasons for that is a 58 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: lot of listeners would know that if you're not on 59 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: the property market, you know that housing has doubled in 60 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: the last ten years, but wages have remained flat, stagnant 61 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: or even declined in real terms. But you have to 62 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: pay your land tax liability out of your salary, even 63 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: though it's based on the value of your property. And 64 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: that's always been my concern about land taxes, particularly for 65 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: family homes, the ability to pay for it, particularly and 66 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: you consider everything else that's been going out, and yet. 67 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: Stamp duty, though, is such a big chunk to outlay 68 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: at the beginning. 69 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: It is. It is absolutely the case that that is 70 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: a big chunk, and I understand that that's certainly the 71 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: circumstance for many first home buyers. But if you hold 72 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: that property for several decades, if it's a forever house 73 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: that you buy first up, then you'll end up having 74 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: a stamp duty liability or a land tax liability over 75 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: thirty years of about one hundred and fifty thousand, whereas 76 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: just up duty stamp duty would be upfront stamp judy. 77 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: I should say it's fifty thousand, So upfront stamp duty 78 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: of fifty thousand, long term liability for lantacs of one 79 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand. So what might look good in 80 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: its first blush may end up being a liability that 81 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: you have to pay it off forever on your family home. 82 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: So at the moment when you're with your bond, every 83 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: time you move, you have to that transaction is with 84 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: the owner of the property or the real estate agent 85 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: who's dealing with it. It doesn't go to an independent 86 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: rental board, bond board which it will now in your scheme. 87 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. And the New South Wales's Rental Bond 88 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Board it's a similar scheme that's in operation in Queensland. 89 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: So if you've got a bad tenant who's ruined your property, 90 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: then you can apply to the New South Older Rental 91 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: Bond Board to get access to that bond for the 92 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: previous occupant and is the new occupant for their new home. 93 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: I have to top up their account if they're in arrears, 94 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: but you can imagine they're trying to stitch together two 95 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: thousand more than two thousand dollars for a bond after 96 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: you've just had your least extinguishes very difficult, particularly for 97 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: young people. And the thing I've been constantly hearing for 98 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: the last six months in New South Wales is that 99 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: we're losing teachers, nurses, police officers, firefighters to other states, 100 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: and the main reason is it's just too expensive to 101 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: live and work in Sydney. So we have to make 102 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: sure we're making every policy change possible to ensure that 103 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: people can live and work in this great city because 104 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: if we don't make changes soon, we're going to lose 105 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: all of these young people to other States. We're in 106 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: a big competition with them. Yeah. 107 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: I remember when I was living in Musselbrook. I got 108 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: my bond back. And this is back in the days 109 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: when they gave it to you in cash, and I 110 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: got it and it was like fifteen hundred bucks, which 111 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: was like a fortune back in nineteen ninety three. And 112 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: I was putting my baby son in the ca and 113 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 3: I left the little packet of money on the roof 114 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: of the Kings and then drove all the way home 115 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 3: and I was just saying, at least we got that cash, 116 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: and telling goes, yeah, at least we got that cash. 117 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: And then I got home and as I got out 118 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: of the car, I looked and there it was just 119 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 3: still sitting on the roof. 120 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: Of the car. 121 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: You'd left the baby behind. 122 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: Just sitting on the roof of the car. And I 123 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: just went, I my sphincter couldn't get tighter. 124 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: At that moment. Did you just close it, Jo? 125 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: I just closed my finger. 126 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: I just went I grabbed you, not your spin Did 127 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: you keep your other pie holds? 128 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: I just didn't say a thing. That's the first time 129 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: I've admitted that's the first time I've admitted that publicly. 130 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: Your face is very red. 131 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA. 132 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 3: Well, Chris is always great to talk to you. Thank 133 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 3: you for joining us. The Honorabill Chris Min's Leader of 134 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: Leader of the Opposition. Thank you for joining. Thank you.