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Speaker 1: Now, I'm sure that plenty of you may have seen,

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Speaker 1: or if not, you may have heard me mention in

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Speaker 1: the opener this morning that Darwin business owner John Koenig

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Speaker 1: has decided to shut shop after what he has described

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Speaker 1: well as six and a half wonderful years of serving

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Speaker 1: gelato to the beautiful city of Darwin. But the owner

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Speaker 1: of John John's Well he took to social media overnight

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Speaker 1: to notify his customers that he's going to be closing

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Speaker 1: at the end of the dry season, citing escalating crime

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Speaker 1: and anti social behavior over the years taking a massive toll.

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Speaker 1: John joins me in the studio right now. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, John.

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Speaker 2: Good mornings for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so good to have you back in the studio.

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Speaker 1: And look, I wish it was under better circumstances. The

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Speaker 1: last time you and I spoke, you know, you were

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Speaker 1: talking to me about an incident that you'd been subjected

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Speaker 1: to in our CBD where somebody had been in a

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Speaker 1: fight just next to his shop. They were then threatening you.

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Speaker 1: You'd had to close your shop for a number of days.

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Speaker 1: And it's obvious that this issue of crime and violence

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Speaker 1: and public drunkenness has just taken its toll.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very it's extremely tiring. Every day I'm getting abused,

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Speaker 2: I'm getting sworn at. You see customers getting sworn at,

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Speaker 2: tourists getting sworn at, abused, and it's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not even funny, but it's funny. I spoke to

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Speaker 2: another business owner yesterday and I said, what am I

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Speaker 2: supposed to say when tourists come in and they tell

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Speaker 2: me an elderly tourists come in and say is it

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Speaker 2: safe to walk the streets at night? How do I

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Speaker 2: answer that? And then I just feel so like it

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Speaker 2: breaks my heart. This is my home and I'm supposed

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Speaker 2: to say no, I don't feel safe walking the streets,

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Speaker 2: let alone. Why would you like? I just I just

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Speaker 2: hate it. I hate what this city, what our territory

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Speaker 2: has become.

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Speaker 1: Look, I agree with you. I was on the plane

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Speaker 1: back from NUSA on the weekend and I was sitting

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Speaker 1: next to a bloke and he'd sort of said to me, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, is it somewhere that's safe to go out

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Speaker 1: at nighttime? And I like, I had this internal battle

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Speaker 1: with myself where I kind of went, do I say

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Speaker 1: do we not really? Or do I say yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a lovely city, and I sort of said to him, look,

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Speaker 1: just have your wits about you. You know, sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: no issues, but other times you might go out and

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Speaker 1: you might think to yourself, oh goodness me, this doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel right. And that's you know, I guess that's the

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Speaker 1: other part of it, isn't it. I'm assuming that some

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Speaker 1: days you've probably had fantastic days at work, but they're

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Speaker 1: potentially becoming limited because of that public drunkenness.

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Speaker 2: Well, yesterday I was I just finished the gym, it

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Speaker 2: was about six o'clock, walking back to the shop, and

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Speaker 2: just as I was posting the social media posters how

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Speaker 2: that we're closing, there's a guy in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the road stopping traffic, swearing at everyone. And then in

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Speaker 2: the park they were just they were loose, yep. And

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Speaker 2: I just looked at it and I said, this is why.

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Speaker 2: It's just like it's the universe gives you signs, and

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Speaker 2: the universe has been giving me science for such a

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Speaker 2: long time. And I fought out, and I fought and

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Speaker 2: I fought, and I said, no, it will get better, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It hasn't gotten better. It's gotten worse. How many people

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Speaker 2: need to tell you it's getting worse. And I agree

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Speaker 2: that there's crime everywhere. People always say, John, there's crime everywhere.

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Speaker 2: If you go to broad Meadows in Melbourne, if you

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Speaker 2: walk down a dark alleyway, there's going to be crime.

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Speaker 2: Not on the capital city, the heart of the CBD.

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Speaker 2: You allow this is the government, the police, the council.

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Speaker 2: You allow this criminality to fester in the heart of

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Speaker 2: our city. It's disgusting. I'm over it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I think a lot of people are.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people that are absolutely over it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years you've seen things get worse?

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Speaker 2: To be honest, in one twenty two since we've been

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Speaker 2: in that shop, the anti social behavior in those years

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Speaker 2: where it was relentless, it was NonStop, yep, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't to the level of the criminality that it is

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Speaker 2: now and the like you will any moment, I can

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Speaker 2: look outside and someone's probably bashing someone else heading and

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Speaker 2: then all someone's smashing glass, someone's like threatened to stab someone.

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Speaker 2: It's just that now it's that level. Before it used

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Speaker 2: to be like humbuggings up? Can I have some money? Okay?

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Speaker 2: No ways, Now it's you get sworn at, you get

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Speaker 2: racially abused, and you're just like I just said no,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, can you please move on? Can

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Speaker 2: you not sit here? I just get racially abused. I

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Speaker 2: was just like, I don't mind a bit of banter

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Speaker 2: or whatever. We can have a laugh sometimes. I know

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Speaker 2: so many of the people around my area by their

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Speaker 2: first name. When they're not intoxicated, they're lovely, and then

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Speaker 2: when they're not, they just they forget who I am

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Speaker 2: and they'll say whatever they want and there's no repercussions.

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Speaker 2: And it's just like six and a half years of

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Speaker 2: being sworn at repeatedly, it gets tired.

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Speaker 1: It does, John, What do you make of you know,

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Speaker 1: we've spoken a lot on this show about this two

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Speaker 1: kilometer rule right where you're not supposed to drink within

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Speaker 1: two kilometers of a takeaway liquor out leash, whether it's

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Speaker 1: in the city and other parts of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's working?

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Speaker 2: Probably not. Actually, to be honest with you, Case Sodans,

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Speaker 2: I actually don't know what is working, because it's just

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Speaker 2: that like, I don't mind, and I've said this before

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Speaker 2: to the council, to whoever's I don't mind if they're

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Speaker 2: having a drink in the park, like it's sometimes it's nice,

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Speaker 2: you know, like if you're having a quiet drink, we

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Speaker 2: all have a quiet drink. Then it just goes from

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Speaker 2: zero to one hundred. And then I'm getting told by

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Speaker 2: the council, John, you need to call the police. Okay,

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Speaker 2: but is it? But what comes first? The chicken or

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Speaker 2: the egg. It's just like I shouldn't have to call

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Speaker 2: the police all the time. And then I'm getting told John,

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Speaker 2: you need to record all these things. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to run a business, yeah, exactly, So I

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Speaker 2: just stopped. I was like, every day I was calling

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Speaker 2: the police at least two or three times. They know

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Speaker 2: my voice, I know their voice, Like that's the So

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Speaker 2: I just stopped. Stop posting it to the guys. Anyway, John, what.

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Speaker 1: Luck for you? What was you know, what was the

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Speaker 1: final tipping point for you over the last couple of.

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Speaker 2: Weeks that there would be change and then that there

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Speaker 2: would be more police presence, which immediately there was a

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Speaker 2: bit of police presence, but it's always it felt like

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Speaker 2: whenever I needed the police presence, they weren't there, and

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Speaker 2: then but there was there has been a lot of ink,

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Speaker 2: So I will say that, And it's not the police spot.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to have a go at the police.

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Speaker 2: But it's just tourist numbers are down twenty percent. Everyone

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Speaker 2: I speak to in most businesses, you know, let's say

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Speaker 2: eighty twenty eighty percent of the business tell me they

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Speaker 2: are really doing it tough. Everyone's struggling, especially food and hospitality.

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Speaker 2: And if they're telling you that they're doing fine, they're

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Speaker 2: probably lying. And then I looked at it. If we're

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Speaker 2: ready this bad that peak dry season, what's going to

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Speaker 2: be for the rest of the dry season and the

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Speaker 2: wet season. So there's the anti social and the crime. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's one thing. I'm just so over my friends and

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Speaker 2: family telling me that they do not come into the

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Speaker 2: city and support my business because they refuse to. And

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Speaker 2: then people say, well, John, can you move somewhere else,

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Speaker 2: to wear Casuarina where it's probably worse, you to Parmisan

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Speaker 2: where it's just as bad.

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Speaker 1: And so, John, when your family and friends are saying

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Speaker 1: to you that they're not coming into the city to

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Speaker 1: come to your business, is that because of the crime.

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Speaker 1: Is that because they don't feel safe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't feel safe. And it's not just one

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Speaker 2: or two, it's just like ten twenty fifty people all

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Speaker 2: seeing the same thing. John, We used to come to

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Speaker 2: the city. We do not come to the city unless

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Speaker 2: we have to. Yeah, And you.

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Speaker 1: Know, after you and I spoke last time, like I

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Speaker 1: thought to myself, I'm gonna make a real effort to

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Speaker 1: get into the city.

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Speaker 2: And I did.

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Speaker 1: I went and I'd go for sushi quite regularly, and

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Speaker 1: then we came and had an ice cream. Came. You know,

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Speaker 1: I came into your store to have an ice cream.

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Speaker 1: And you want to do your best to support local businesses.

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Speaker 1: But you also, you know, you're in a situation where

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Speaker 1: you're walking through the city with your young children and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, goodness, me, I hope things don't kick off.

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Speaker 1: But also I don't want my children to think that

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Speaker 1: this behavior is okay. You know. I don't want them

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Speaker 1: to think that people being heavily intoxicated and yelling at

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Speaker 1: each other is okay. And I also don't want them

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Speaker 1: to think that that's culture, because it's absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I've got.

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Speaker 1: Very like all of my nieces and nephews are indigenous.

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Speaker 1: I've got like so much of my family is Indigenous,

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Speaker 1: and they don't believe that that behavior is okay. They

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Speaker 1: don't think it's all right. So I think we need

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Speaker 1: to get past this being a real, you know, indigenous

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Speaker 1: non indigenous issue as well, and we need to actually

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Speaker 1: start saying the behavior is not all right.

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Speaker 2: It's not all right, and it's like you said, I

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Speaker 2: look for it the children. The most sad thing here

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Speaker 2: is for the children. Like kids have grown up with

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Speaker 2: John John's, they've seen John John's. It's and you ask everyone.

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Speaker 2: You read the comments in the social media post when

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Speaker 2: people come to dal and they'll always say, go to Kakadu,

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Speaker 2: go to Litchfield, go to the jumping crops, go to

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Speaker 2: John John's. We are a destination and it's always been that.

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Speaker 2: And then when people come in and they tell me John,

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Speaker 2: We've come from Melbourne because people have told us to come,

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Speaker 2: that warms my heart. And then they bring their kids

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Speaker 2: in and then their kids are watching anti social behavior

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Speaker 2: going on outside, and I'm like, how am I supposed

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Speaker 2: to explain that to them? And then you look at

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Speaker 2: the kids. The kids are always watching something wild going

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Speaker 2: on in the streets, and people think I'm like making

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Speaker 2: it up, it's not and it's truly not. And then

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Speaker 2: what are you supposed to do if you see And

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Speaker 2: I know people get naked or whatever all around the

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Speaker 2: world and down south and the crime, but it just

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Speaker 2: happens so often, so frequently, and it's like always at

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Speaker 2: the ice cream shop.

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Speaker 1: It's like, it's not your fault not making people take

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Speaker 1: their clothes off. No, it's a drinking outside, that's for sure. Mate.

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Speaker 1: Like I really feel for you because, as I said

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Speaker 1: last time, when you're on the show, I know you're

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Speaker 1: a young bloke making a go of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I love that. I love that you self made,

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Speaker 1: that you have created something that territorians love. And it

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Speaker 1: breaks my heart that you're in a situation where you

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Speaker 1: have had to make the decision to shut shop. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I would imagine that there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of factors at play in terms of finally making that decision.

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Speaker 1: What's next for you, that's.

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Speaker 2: A good question. We're just working in the process now

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Speaker 2: to wind down the business. We've got to get a

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Speaker 2: closed date with the landlords, so we've got to work

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Speaker 2: through all those things. But I want to probably take

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Speaker 2: a break from Darwin and the other thing is well,

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Speaker 2: dar one will always be home. You know. Someone's like, well,

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Speaker 2: when it gets better, and when it gets better, John

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Speaker 2: John's may reopen. It's up to It's up to the

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Speaker 2: people in charge. And once it's I don't want to

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Speaker 2: close my shop, people said, ask me, John, do you

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Speaker 2: want to scale it back? But why scale it back

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Speaker 2: if I'm always going to be or have my staff

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Speaker 2: put up with what they're going to do. So until

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Speaker 2: things get better, there won't be a John John's and

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Speaker 2: there won't be a lot of businesses in Darwin. So

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Speaker 2: hopefully it gets fixed soon and I can come back

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Speaker 2: to the home that I've loved, that I can come

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Speaker 2: back to my family. But until then, I'll probably go

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Speaker 2: away somewhere and maybe go do some meditation up in

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Speaker 2: a mountain.

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Speaker 1: You might need it. John, What is your message for

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Speaker 1: the government? And I know that you know that you

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Speaker 1: have had enough, But what is your message for the government?

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like I bang my head against a

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Speaker 1: wall some days right like I'm literally trying to raise

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Speaker 1: this with our politicians of every level, each party, you know, independence,

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Speaker 1: no matter who they are, But what is your message

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Speaker 1: for them?

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Speaker 2: It's a good question because people have asked me as well,

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Speaker 2: and I've thought to myself, you know, Darwin's population as well,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty hundred and forty thousand. The NT

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Speaker 2: is two hundred and fifty thousand. Things can move and

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Speaker 2: change so quickly in the NT because it's so small.

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Speaker 2: You have such a tight knit community that if things

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Speaker 2: start to shift and change, it doesn't take much to

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Speaker 2: make good policy or good changes. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: they've got bad policies or whatever, but we should be

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Speaker 2: able to take control of two hundred thousand people. The

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Speaker 2: fact that Alice tennant, Catherine and Darwin is in absolute chaos.

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Speaker 2: It is such a disgrace for Territorians. And like with

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Speaker 2: the politicians, since two thousand and one, labor has been

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Speaker 2: in except for the four years of the Giles government.

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Speaker 2: Giles government was terrible as well since two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: and I especially the last eight years, I have witness

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Speaker 2: my city and my town and my territory that I

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Speaker 2: love go down the drain, and we are leaving in

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Speaker 2: droves the last standing territorians that we're here no more.

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Speaker 2: And the big business guys that I speak to, they've

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Speaker 2: got so much investment here that they can't leave otherwise

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Speaker 2: they would and it doesn't take much for them to

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Speaker 2: like something to happen to their family. They'll go, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then all the good people are just going.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the point you made there is that

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Speaker 1: we are a small We are a small territory right.

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Speaker 1: If we have got the will to turn things around,

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Speaker 1: it absolutely can be turned around. But the government needs

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Speaker 1: to have that will. And you know, I'll call it

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Speaker 1: out that we are in a situation where you and

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Speaker 1: I aren't making policies. You and I aren't able to

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Speaker 1: change the direction of the Northern Territory government and the

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Speaker 1: policies that they make.

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Speaker 2: But they are.

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Speaker 1: They are in a situation where they can make tough

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Speaker 1: decisions and they can do things that can genuinely change

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Speaker 1: the way that the Northern Territory is going at this

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Speaker 1: point in time, and they have to. They've got to

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Speaker 1: give people some hope again.

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Speaker 2: I agree, And when it changes and things are good again,

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Speaker 2: I'll come.

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Speaker 1: Back, John mate, lovely to speak to you this morning.

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Speaker 1: I'm really sorry that it is for such Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you're in a situation where you're

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Speaker 1: having to shut your shop. To me, it's pretty heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really disappointing that we're losing a fantastic

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Speaker 1: business in our CBD and to me, we should not

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Speaker 1: have a situation where you're unable to sell ice cream

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Speaker 1: and gelato safely in a capital city.

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Speaker 2: In a capital John, thank you. Thanks mate,