Speaker 1: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and
Speaker 1: on this podcast, I'll be going behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television. Thanks to all of those
Speaker 1: subscribers who sent me some amazing feedback on last week's
Speaker 1: episode with Big Brother winner Maali. He was a fantastic
Speaker 1: chat and it was an eye opener into the current
Speaker 1: landscape in reality television. If you missed it, you can
Speaker 1: flip back and catch up on that episode on all
Speaker 1: of your podcast platforms, including my Heart Radio. As you know,
Speaker 1: I love to recommend other people's podcasts, and this week
Speaker 1: I've been listening to So Bad It's Good because one
Speaker 1: of my favorite podcasters, Jacques Peterson, guested on their pod.
Speaker 1: It's a must for all pop culture enthusiasts, so check
Speaker 1: that one out. This week, my partner and I have
Speaker 1: been watching Love Island UK as a precursor to the
Speaker 1: Love Island Australian series which is about to go into production.
Speaker 1: It's really light entertainment and if you're into voyeurism and
Speaker 1: shameless flirting check it out. You won't want to miss
Speaker 1: those bikini lines and it's on Channel lines catch up
Speaker 1: Platform nine now if you want to have a look.
Speaker 1: Next week, I have Caitlin Shay on the podcast, who
Speaker 1: is an executive producer of Australian Story on the ABC.
Speaker 1: After twenty five years of working on the show, Caitlin
Speaker 1: is ready to unpack one of Australia's most love programs. FYI,
Speaker 1: there is actually a back catalog of past episodes on
Speaker 1: ABC dot net dot Au and if you love stories told,
Speaker 1: well dip back into those past episodes. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: will end up as addicted to them as I have been.
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have Venton Bailey and
Speaker 1: Randy Barbado, who are the founders of World Wonder. Both
Speaker 1: of these guys are as inspiring as you could ever imagine.
Speaker 1: I personally have followed their work for years. They are
Speaker 1: a award winning Emmy winners who most would know are
Speaker 1: behind the global phenomenon of RuPaul's Drag Race. But at
Speaker 1: their core they are storytellers who have been giving voices
Speaker 1: to those who need a bigger platform, who deserve a
Speaker 1: bigger platform. Their documentary film work includes Carrie Fisher's Wishful Drinking,
Speaker 1: The Eyes of Tammy Fay Monika and Black and White
Speaker 1: Gender Revolution with Katie Curic and The Last Beekeeper. They
Speaker 1: have a mission to tell the truth and to be honest,
Speaker 1: and their work is simply unbelievable. This week we will
Speaker 1: focus on their new series Catch and Kill the podcast tapes,
Speaker 1: which debuts on Binge here in Australia and HBO internationally
Speaker 1: on July thirteenth. The documentary follows the Harvey Weinstein investigation
Speaker 1: and explores the systems protecting powerful men accused of awful crimes.
Speaker 1: We've never before seen footage from this culture shaking story book.
Speaker 1: This one into your calendar because the series is groundbreaking
Speaker 1: and it'll blow your mind in ways that you won't expect.
Speaker 1: I do want to offer a content warning at this point.
Speaker 1: There are general discussions of violence against minorities, specific discussions
Speaker 1: of assault and rape that may upset some listeners. If
Speaker 1: you are triggered by some of this content, please contact
Speaker 1: Beyond Blue, who provides information and support to help everyday Australians.
Speaker 1: But let's get started with the boys who I chatted
Speaker 1: with in the US. Welcome to TV, Reload, Venton and Randy.
Speaker 2: You know, in all fair we only make films about
Speaker 2: things we're passionate about.
Speaker 3: We're living in a precarious moment when it comes to
Speaker 3: the free press.
Speaker 2: It felt like a really important piece of work.
Speaker 4: I said, Ronan Pharaoh has broken the code. He's got
Speaker 4: the good sound of wise there. And I think it's
Speaker 4: fair to say that everyone who has come forward, there
Speaker 4: are many many more who have not.
Speaker 1: And there were some disturbing moments where I was kind
Speaker 1: of shocked by how much he expected things to go
Speaker 1: his way.
Speaker 4: Trump was a bully who simply was never stopped. No
Speaker 4: one ever stood up to him putting new claims of
Speaker 4: sexual harassment, assault and rape. And if you don't stand
Speaker 4: up to a bully, they could well end up being
Speaker 4: the president.
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, how are you both good?
Speaker 4: Thanks today?
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny with this podcast. I quite often
Speaker 1: say gooday when I'm talking to people overseas, But the
Speaker 1: last time I did it, they didn't understand what I
Speaker 1: was saying. I think they thought I was talking in
Speaker 1: a completely different language. So I've stopped saying gooday.
Speaker 4: It Rue likes to say Ozzy OSSI I know.
Speaker 1: And I loved that he did that, and he did
Speaker 1: it for every episode of RuPaul's Down Under, which I
Speaker 1: just thought was so fantastic.
Speaker 4: Asiasiazzi.
Speaker 1: He really did seem to embrace a lot of the
Speaker 1: Australian culture. But that's not what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1: We're talking about something else. And I want to say
Speaker 1: congratulations on this documentary series, Catch and Kill the podcast tapes.
Speaker 1: It is so compelling and it offers so much detail
Speaker 1: in such a compelling manner. Randy, are you proud of
Speaker 1: the finished product?
Speaker 2: Oh, we're really proud of the finished product. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a very It was a major passion project
Speaker 2: for Fenton and myself and everyone who worked on the team.
Speaker 2: I think we were all really moved by the participants
Speaker 2: and by Ronan's work on the book and on the
Speaker 2: podcast and on the series. So it felt like a
Speaker 2: really important piece of work for us.
Speaker 3: This is the story of the efforts to uncover the
Speaker 3: truth about how powerful and predatory man for decades evated justice.
Speaker 3: It's the story of how media and law enforcement and
Speaker 3: the world of private espionage protected that man.
Speaker 1: Oh I knew there's going.
Speaker 3: To be retaliation.
Speaker 4: I didn't think there's going to be such.
Speaker 3: Collusion, and how in the end all of that wasn't
Speaker 3: enough in the face of a group of sources who
Speaker 3: risked everything to expose the truth.
Speaker 1: Why did you decide to hone in on this particular story.
Speaker 4: Well, HBO came to us and said that they had
Speaker 4: in the course of Ronan doing his podcast, he had
Speaker 4: taped the interviews and they were like, could we do
Speaker 4: something with them? And we took a look at them,
Speaker 4: and they were just so powerful.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I think you can you can read a transcript, or
Speaker 4: you can listen to an audio clip, but when you
Speaker 4: actually see someone talking about being raped by Harvey Weinstein
Speaker 4: and the trauma of that experience, and you see them
Speaker 4: literally reliving it in front of your eyes, it's overwhelming.
Speaker 3: When you say sexual assault, what do you mean except
Speaker 3: what did mister Weinstein do to you? He forced himself
Speaker 3: on me sexually when it was unwanted. Why are you
Speaker 3: speaking out about this today? Because I don't want anyone
Speaker 3: else to have to live with this.
Speaker 4: And we just felt it was really important to tell
Speaker 4: that story. Even though I think people at large know
Speaker 4: the basic headlines, you know, and have seen bits and
Speaker 4: pieces of the story, we just felt this was a
Speaker 4: real opportunity to bring it home for people in a
Speaker 4: very real way. Harvey Weinstein may be a movie mogul,
Speaker 4: but he's as Rose McGowan says in one of our interviews,
Speaker 4: you know, I want the lawyers to look at this
Speaker 4: because this is something that happens to their daughters, to
Speaker 4: their mothers, to their sisters.
Speaker 1: It's fact. Yeah, that's the end of the quote. Fact
Speaker 1: And there's nothing more compelling I think when you're telling
Speaker 1: a story than when you're talking about the truth. When
Speaker 1: did you guys know that the subject matter was worth
Speaker 1: a TV series and what did you guys personally want
Speaker 1: to add to the conversation.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that you know, we were
Speaker 2: huge fans of the book, of the original article, the
Speaker 2: book and the podcast, so for us, the opportunity to
Speaker 2: amplify the message was kind of a no brainer. I mean,
Speaker 2: the challenge was how to do it, But I think
Speaker 2: you know, we we were fans from the get go
Speaker 2: and we thought it was an extraordinary story. And the
Speaker 2: more you learn about it, the more you get beyond
Speaker 2: the headlines, the broader the story is, the more significant
Speaker 2: the story is because it's not just the Harvey Weinstein story.
Speaker 2: It's the story of how that story came to be.
Speaker 2: It's the story of the threat to investigative journalism that
Speaker 2: is going on all over the world. So I think
Speaker 2: it was always the story that we're very interested in,
Speaker 2: and then to be presented with the opportunity to make
Speaker 2: a TV adaptation of the podcast was like.
Speaker 1: Where, Yeah, Well, I think that that's what was so
Speaker 1: powerful about this was that, yes, we get the headline,
Speaker 1: we know that it's Ronan Parah, we know that it's
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein, but you know, I don't want to take
Speaker 1: anything away from the viewer, but there is very much
Speaker 1: that theme of protecting the journalist and in protecting the
Speaker 1: journalist's integrity, which I thought was so powerfully underwritten throughout
Speaker 1: the story. How would you describe the relationship that you
Speaker 1: have with Ronan Parah now? And I guess what was
Speaker 1: your take home experience for the both of you.
Speaker 4: I think the relationship with Ronan is really one of
Speaker 4: profound respect. I mean, I think it took an enormous
Speaker 4: amount of courage for him to do what he did,
Speaker 4: and also his producing partner at NBC, Rich McHugh, who
Speaker 4: actually lost his job over this. They put an awful
Speaker 4: lot on the line, as did the people who spoke
Speaker 4: to Ronan, the whistleblowers and it was by no means
Speaker 4: an easy, clear direct path from them coming to Ronan
Speaker 4: to the story being published. Even Ambergerts Tiers, who the
Speaker 4: New York Police asked her to wear a wire and
Speaker 4: she did, and she got this amazing confession from Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 4: You would have thought that would be the end of
Speaker 4: the story. They would arrest him, charges, trial, locked up,
Speaker 4: but it wasn't that at all, and in fact, she
Speaker 4: found herself on trial, sort of smeared in the press.
Speaker 4: And you realize that the sort of path of getting
Speaker 4: this story out in front of the public was a
Speaker 4: really hard path with lots of twists and turns, and
Speaker 4: the outcome was never certain. So along answer to your
Speaker 4: question is just we have tremendous respect for Ronan and
Speaker 4: all the people he talked to and the people he
Speaker 4: worked with in getting this story out there, because you know,
Speaker 4: it's quite possible that perhaps one it might never have
Speaker 4: come out. You know, just one tiny detail, you know,
Speaker 4: Amber Gutierrez wore that police wire. But the reason we
Speaker 4: heard that tape and Harvey Weinstein badgering her and harassing
Speaker 4: her is becau she on her own initiative, but her
Speaker 4: iPhone in her bag on record as well. Once you'd
Speaker 4: done the wine handed it over, she no longer had
Speaker 4: the tape, but she had had the presence of mind
Speaker 4: to make her own version. And it's only because of
Speaker 4: that that we have that It's extraordinary.
Speaker 3: Really, When we told them we had a copy of
Speaker 3: the recording, Weinstein was shocked. I need to know a person.
Speaker 1: I won't do a thing I want to think. Please,
Speaker 1: I swear, I won't just sit with me. Don't embarrass
Speaker 1: me in the hotel. I'm here all the time. Please,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do anything.
Speaker 2: I swear my children.
Speaker 1: It's like a run of events. And I think the
Speaker 1: saddest thing about some of these realities is it's a
Speaker 1: breeding ground for depression and for ongoing personal issue when
Speaker 1: we're told not to feel a certain way, and the
Speaker 1: problem for a lot of these victims was that they
Speaker 1: were continuously made to feel like they weren't allowed to
Speaker 1: feel that way. And then in this documentary we get
Speaker 1: to see the reaction, We get to say see it
Speaker 1: then play out over a period of time. Do you
Speaker 1: think that Harvey played an open game of chess with
Speaker 1: these players? I mean, you have Nicole Kidman and Kate
Speaker 1: Blanchette in the front as a diversion and as an attraction.
Speaker 1: But then he sort of repeatedly attacked or seemed to
Speaker 1: happen with people who didn't have a large voice or
Speaker 1: a global platform. Is that a deliberate and sociopathic game
Speaker 1: that he played on his behalf.
Speaker 2: Well, he definitely prayed on vulnerable and innocent women. I
Speaker 2: mean he definitely was a sort of power play. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it was. You know, I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 2: I couldn't sort of diagnose it as sociopathic, but it
Speaker 2: was sick and twisted and exploitative. It happened over and
Speaker 2: over again. And I think, you know, going back to
Speaker 2: the courageous women who spoke out, they not only experienced
Speaker 2: this horrific trauma of either being attacked or harassed or exploited,
Speaker 2: they had to live it over and over again. Coming
Speaker 2: out to speak about that is like reliving that trauma
Speaker 2: and inviting the media and people to sort of scrutinize.
Speaker 2: And you know, people aren't always kind.
Speaker 3: I thought I was for an hour at a meeting,
Speaker 3: and then on the way out it turned into anatomy.
Speaker 3: Was this a sexual assault? Yes, this was a rape.
Speaker 2: Yes, For me, I feel like our series is more
Speaker 2: about all these courageous people that took him down, and
Speaker 2: the series is a reminder that there can be hope
Speaker 2: and there are ways to combat these sorts of forces,
Speaker 2: and that there's there are ways for truth to trump power.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know, in two thousand and seven, I was
Speaker 1: living in Las Angela's and a friend of mine caught
Speaker 1: up with Harvey Weinstein and he told her a story
Speaker 1: about a very famous actress that was currently working at Miramax.
Speaker 1: He told this Australian friend of mine, who is an actress,
Speaker 1: that this Hollywood film star gained her career by performing
Speaker 1: a sexual act in front of him. It was one
Speaker 1: hundred percent an offer and an assumption that a quid
Speaker 1: pro quo was on the table. How many times that
Speaker 1: happened in real life prior to this expose a of
Speaker 1: Harvey we will never know. But my question to you
Speaker 1: both is do you think this type of documentary will
Speaker 1: make an impact on the culture of the cast and
Speaker 1: couch moving forward.
Speaker 4: I think it will make a difference. I mean I
Speaker 4: think that yes. A couple of things really. One is
Speaker 4: that the extent of Harvey's predation. You're right, we probably
Speaker 4: never will know, because I think something that is examined
Speaker 4: by the people in the series is very much the
Speaker 4: pros and cons of coming forward and how they deliberated
Speaker 4: about whether to come forward or not, and the tremendous
Speaker 4: anxiety about doing that. And I think it's fair to
Speaker 4: say that everyone who has come forward, there are many
Speaker 4: many more who have not, and that's no shade to them.
Speaker 4: I think it's it's an incredibly difficult thing to do,
Speaker 4: takes great courage, and it's extremely risky. I don't think
Speaker 4: it's not all upside by any means, but I do
Speaker 4: think there is a rising tide and a sense that
Speaker 4: enough is enough, and there is a sea change, and
Speaker 4: I think that that's why you have the me Too movement,
Speaker 4: which I think has been largely triggered by this Harvey
Speaker 4: Weinstein scandal. But it's absolutely a current story. It doesn't
Speaker 4: mean that all the work is done and all the
Speaker 4: bad guys have gone. I think the problem in America
Speaker 4: is that the bully type is tolerated, even lauded, and
Speaker 4: has been given a free pass for far too long,
Speaker 4: so to an extent that it's almost become institutionalized. And
Speaker 4: I think you can look for proof of that no
Speaker 4: further than the president we had for the last four years.
Speaker 4: I mean, Trump was a bully who simply was never stopped.
Speaker 4: No one ever stood up to him. And if you
Speaker 4: don't stand up to a bully, they could well end
Speaker 4: up being the president. And the cost of that is inestimable.
Speaker 4: The number of lies lost, wrecked, destroyed. And let's not
Speaker 4: forget Trump is someone who's been accused by twenty five
Speaker 4: or twenty six women of rape and assault and harassment.
Speaker 4: So it's not just the hundreds of thousands of lies
Speaker 4: lost because of complete incompetence in the face of a pandemic.
Speaker 4: It's also sex crimes as well. And he's still out
Speaker 4: there walking free. So I think there's a long way
Speaker 4: of saying I think there's a tremendous amount of work
Speaker 4: still to too here.
Speaker 1: We just hope that this kind of work does highlight it,
Speaker 1: you know, that does start to draw a line under it.
Speaker 1: I mean, we never will ever erode or eradicate the
Speaker 1: villains in the world. It's very hard to do that.
Speaker 1: But to be a good documentary filmmaker. How much are
Speaker 1: you guys allowed to have a bias? I mean, no
Speaker 1: matter how guilty, do you try and restrict your presentation
Speaker 1: in any way.
Speaker 2: You know, in this instance, for this series, we've made
Speaker 2: many documentaries. This series is based on some incredible reporting
Speaker 2: and some well sourced and well researched investigative journalism, so
Speaker 2: we have no hesitations about the truths within it. So
Speaker 2: you know, in all fairness, we only make films about
Speaker 2: things we're passionate about, about things that we feel stories
Speaker 2: that we feel are important to share about people who
Speaker 2: either inspire us or who we feel need to be heard,
Speaker 2: and this is absolutely an example of all of those things.
Speaker 1: Well, the success of true crime and unpacking criminal cases
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with making the audiences feel
Speaker 1: like that they are detectives, that they are the ones
Speaker 1: solving the crime. How did you plan and produce this
Speaker 1: story and what tactics did you try and use to
Speaker 1: keepe the view enthralled?
Speaker 4: Well, you're right, it is a true crime story. But
Speaker 4: I think sometimes true crime gives too much space to
Speaker 4: the criminal and sort of inevitably puts them on a platform.
Speaker 4: And I think, funnily enough, in this story, the least
Speaker 4: important person is Harvey Weinstein, and our approach was very
Speaker 4: much to focus on the victims, and so each episode
Speaker 4: is very much about a different person, whether it's Amber
Speaker 4: Gutierrez in the first episode who wore that wire, or
Speaker 4: Rowena Chu who was an assistant to Harvey Weinstein who
Speaker 4: he assaulted. These are all individual episodes in the series.
Speaker 4: Another episode is the reporters ken A Ladder and Kim Masters,
Speaker 4: who tried to break this story for many years. So
Speaker 4: I think that that was our approach is a sort
Speaker 4: of really, we're telling the story of the story, how
Speaker 4: the story came out, and yes there's a true crime perspective,
Speaker 4: but we're not really interested in giving space to the criminal.
Speaker 2: We're inspired by all of these whistleblowers and journalists and
Speaker 2: Rich Mchue, the producer who worked with rown In. They're
Speaker 2: the heroes of the story and they're you know, the
Speaker 2: hope is that they will inspire others. The hope is
Speaker 2: that their strength and their voices will inspire people to
Speaker 2: either support other whistleblowers or to speak truth that they
Speaker 2: may have been anxious about speaking in the pasts.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, you know, watching this documentary series after it finished,
Speaker 1: it bled into my life in so many different ways.
Speaker 1: I did watch it twice, and I had the same
Speaker 1: reaction both times as I finished it, and it made
Speaker 1: me want to be a better person. I don't know
Speaker 1: how that is possible when the subject matter is sometimes
Speaker 1: so bleak, but the ability for these courageous people to
Speaker 1: share their stories was just so palpable, Like it was
Speaker 1: just so courageous. I don't know. I just walked out
Speaker 1: of it afterwards, being like, I want to prepare my
Speaker 1: interviews better, I want to cook my dinner better. And
Speaker 1: I think that's such a strange response, don't you think
Speaker 1: to watching something like this, I.
Speaker 4: Think it's very kind of you to say that. I
Speaker 4: also think, in a sense, I do think the story
Speaker 4: connects to all of us. I don't think by any
Speaker 4: means all of us have been subjected necessarily to sexual harassment,
Speaker 4: but I do think we all know what a bully is,
Speaker 4: and I think that if anyone walks away strengthened and
Speaker 4: inspired to stand up to a bully, I think that's great,
Speaker 4: because I think there is no time like the present
Speaker 4: to stop a bully, and if you don't stop them,
Speaker 4: they're just going to go on and abuse more people
Speaker 4: and run for president.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Call them out, you know, call them out before it happens.
Speaker 1: I think that's the message. You know, how many times
Speaker 1: do you think that you or anyone can hear a
Speaker 1: story before it becomes true or in this case, becomes investigated.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's an interesting situation, like just you know,
Speaker 4: Ronan's just written a new piece in The New Yorker
Speaker 4: all about Britney.
Speaker 1: Spears and the the Conservativeship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, conservativeship, which is what it's been thirteen years. And
Speaker 4: I do feel with her recent court appearance there's a
Speaker 4: sense in which she's being heard. But then on the
Speaker 4: other hand, you know, the judge ruled not to dissolve
Speaker 4: the conservatorship, and then you've got Bill Cosby who's just
Speaker 4: been you know, whose case was just overturned. You know,
Speaker 4: it doesn't change the fact that he drugged and raped
Speaker 4: multiple women.
Speaker 1: And he admitted to it. You know, like that's the
Speaker 1: hard thing, you know, like there's a confession on the
Speaker 1: record at some point, and then you're trying to change
Speaker 1: the narrative. It's it's terrifying to think that these things
Speaker 1: can happen now, you know, people in positions of power
Speaker 1: have been protected by fear that they install into their victims.
Speaker 1: Do you think that people these days can't get away
Speaker 1: with as much because of the visibility allowed, you know,
Speaker 1: or available due to the Internet. You know, here we are,
Speaker 1: I'm in Melbourne, Australia talking to you guys, which is
Speaker 1: kind of amazing. But do you think that now because
Speaker 1: of the Internet, that that is allowing people to be
Speaker 1: I don't know, to take away some of that private
Speaker 1: fear that gets installed into them because there are means
Speaker 1: to be able to share your story potentially.
Speaker 4: Yes. At the same time, though, I think you've got
Speaker 4: to bear in mind that, you know, fear is still
Speaker 4: being used to control people and intimidate them into silence
Speaker 4: in all sorts of ways, you know, And and I
Speaker 4: think that's the thing again to fight back against and
Speaker 4: that you know, the Internet can be It's great that
Speaker 4: you and I can have this conversation, you know, But
Speaker 4: at the same time, the Internet can also spread lies
Speaker 4: and false and full stories and be used to intimidate people.
Speaker 4: And I think that Trump demonstrated how you can pervert
Speaker 4: truth and corrupt truth actually quite easily using the Internet.
Speaker 2: And you know, power and tyranny is like a virus,
Speaker 2: and there are variants, and it's incredibly adaptable and so
Speaker 2: that you know, while there may be different means to
Speaker 2: spread truths, there these same means are They are to
Speaker 2: spread untruths and to be used and corrupted by people
Speaker 2: who have, you know, whose goals are not in the
Speaker 2: best interest of anyone other than themselves.
Speaker 1: I want to offer you guys a scenario that I
Speaker 1: would love your interpretation on. You know, there are two
Speaker 1: people in a room and they sort of both walk out,
Speaker 1: they both witness the same thing. How many truths are there?
Speaker 1: And how many ways can we interpret the truth?
Speaker 2: Everyone? Everything is so subjective and two people can see
Speaker 2: the same thing and have a completely different perspective on it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's interesting because as documentary filmmakers,
Speaker 2: we've been making films for a very long time, and
Speaker 2: every single one of them is about an idea or
Speaker 2: a person or a group of people who we are
Speaker 2: passionate about, whether it was you know, the eyes of
Speaker 2: Tammy Fay or Monica Lewinsky in Black and White. And
Speaker 2: we never we never pretended that we were coming in
Speaker 2: as these completely objective filmmakers. We've always been direct and
Speaker 2: upfront that you know, there is a point of view
Speaker 2: here and we're always open to the possibility of that
Speaker 2: point of view changing and the process of making the film.
Speaker 2: But we're documentary filmmakers. We don't consider ourselves an investigative journalists.
Speaker 2: Ronan is an investigative journalist, and this series is based
Speaker 2: on his work. So our job was to represent his work,
Speaker 2: which we were very passionate about, and his work I
Speaker 2: believe is closer to representing objective truth than most documentaries are,
Speaker 2: because objectivity subjectivity. It's you know, you pick up the camera,
Speaker 2: whatever way you point it, you immediately have a point
Speaker 2: of view. This project is precious because of the work
Speaker 2: it's based on, and because of Ronan himself, the conversations
Speaker 2: he's had with these people, his ability to combine compassion
Speaker 2: and empathy with you know, such a kind of incredible intellect.
Speaker 2: He's put together something incredible. And Fenton and myself, along
Speaker 2: with these incredible artists, we've worked with, editors and composers.
Speaker 2: I hope that we've been able to take the work
Speaker 2: that he's done and amplify it. You know, we never
Speaker 2: had an agenda other than to kind of broaden the
Speaker 2: potential audience for it.
Speaker 1: Well, your work consistently offers a crystal clear vision of
Speaker 1: the truth. I mean in everything I've ever watched of yours.
Speaker 1: And as I said to you at the start of this,
Speaker 1: I've been in your audience for so long and I
Speaker 1: love your work because it's simplictic. It has a simplistic
Speaker 1: but almost perfect tone to it, you know, a vision
Speaker 1: which you know so much clarity is given to the
Speaker 1: audience that sometimes we can feel drunk on the truth
Speaker 1: because you don't miss a beat. You know, it's actually
Speaker 1: genius in so many ways. What kind of mission statement
Speaker 1: do you both work by? And you know how much
Speaker 1: scrutiny do you have over the over the fine edges
Speaker 1: of your storytelling?
Speaker 4: Well, I think Renn and I like we are very
Speaker 4: passionate about what we do, and I think that we
Speaker 4: only do things that we really care about. And and
Speaker 4: I think, you know, sometimes we wondered, gosh, what does
Speaker 4: connect you know, Timmy Fay with Monarcher in Black and White,
Speaker 4: with Catch and Kill podcast tapes? And I think it
Speaker 4: is that sense of outside of voices or voices that
Speaker 4: are marginalized or ignored. And I think that you know,
Speaker 4: as a couple of gay guys, is we feel that
Speaker 4: you know, have grown up feeling that marginalization, and I
Speaker 4: think that that feeling of being an outsider, and I
Speaker 4: think we just want to tell the stories that don't
Speaker 4: get told. And I think that.
Speaker 1: Giving the minority a voice, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that's something that I can see in so much of
Speaker 1: your work is I can feel that understanding. I can
Speaker 1: feel that under I can I can feel the knowing
Speaker 1: or your own journey in the fact that you are
Speaker 1: giving a voice to the minority and then letting the
Speaker 1: majority sort of digest it. I mean, you both have
Speaker 1: brought the LGBTI community space just so much joy with
Speaker 1: RuPaul's drag race And a question that I have personally,
Speaker 1: and I just would be remissive me not to ask
Speaker 1: you one question about RuPaul is how much has this
Speaker 1: phenomenon exceeded your expectations.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, the phenomenon of the show has exceeded expectations.
Speaker 2: Nomanon of Rue Paul has not, because at the heart
Speaker 2: of the show is Rue and his message, and everybody
Speaker 2: say love and that spirituality and that curiosity is real,
Speaker 2: and so are the looks and the hair and everything else.
Speaker 2: But it's the combination they say they want to do
Speaker 2: all this stuff in life, but they want to hold on.
Speaker 4: To all of the baggage. But to be able to
Speaker 4: move forward, you've got to be willing to let someone.
Speaker 2: You've got to be willing to let all of it go, really,
Speaker 2: you know, And so.
Speaker 1: Did Rand and Fenton help you do that?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't want to compare a Ronan with Rue,
Speaker 2: but there is a similarity in like, these people who
Speaker 2: are incredibly compassionate and empathetic on the one hand, but
Speaker 2: have this also have this intellect. So I do think
Speaker 2: that that the show, the phenomen of the show has
Speaker 2: been surprising, but the success of the show there's room
Speaker 2: at the heart and then it's all about these queens,
Speaker 2: these queens you fall in love with. That's why it's
Speaker 2: gone on and on and on and will probably for
Speaker 2: a while because there's planning more out there, and well.
Speaker 1: You've come to Australia, you know, like it's in you know.
Speaker 1: The interesting thing about the story is globally expanding it.
Speaker 1: But then also it's so interesting now that it came
Speaker 1: to Australia. And I understood because I'd met some of
Speaker 1: the queens on the show before that it's interesting that
Speaker 1: you're going down these roads and finding people from rough track,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's in people who have had it
Speaker 1: hard and then elevating them and putting them on a platform.
Speaker 1: That's powerful, you know, you know, that's actually going beyond
Speaker 1: just going to a country and retelling the story, you know,
Speaker 1: just keep going down those parts and allowing people that
Speaker 1: probably never thought they could be on television to be
Speaker 1: on television. That's powerful.
Speaker 2: People who've always deserved to be on televison. Exact, they
Speaker 2: are talented, if not more than any movie star or
Speaker 2: pop star or TV star. We've always felt that way.
Speaker 2: We've always you know, we'd rather be at the local
Speaker 2: drag club than on a red carpet in Hollywood.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that talent in our street is phenomenal, and it's
Speaker 4: you know, it's just been the factor that has been
Speaker 4: ignored for so long, is the opportunity that drag race
Speaker 4: has been able to take advantage of. But it's you know, look,
Speaker 4: it's the same thing in a way. It's like, you know,
Speaker 4: a drag queen. No one becomes a drag queen accidentally
Speaker 4: and finds themselves on a stage. It takes courage and
Speaker 4: guts and real determination, often to the extent of you know,
Speaker 4: you are rejected by your family, you know, you're kicked
Speaker 4: out it. So many of those queens have been through
Speaker 4: so much to be who they are, and I think
Speaker 4: that's what Renn and I respond to, is that that
Speaker 4: authenticity and that that determination to be themselves and not
Speaker 4: to be bullied by other people into one thing or another.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's a message of being true
Speaker 1: to yourself because I mean, even if you go through
Speaker 1: a lot of your work, you know, with wishful drinking
Speaker 1: with Carrie Fisher, you know, there's just actually just so
Speaker 1: many I could list, I could list to so many
Speaker 1: of them, but these people that are undeniable truth tellers
Speaker 1: and that are not going to apologize for it, which
Speaker 1: you know, I think is some of the strongest messages
Speaker 1: that we can give young people.
Speaker 4: They inspire us. I mean, those people is I think
Speaker 4: that's why Ranny and I do this, is because you know,
Speaker 4: we've learned so much Tammy fay ord Us so much,
Speaker 4: Carry Fisher sort of so much, Monica Lewinski. I mean,
Speaker 4: they are truth tellers and they're inspiring and we are
Speaker 4: so grateful to them because in telling their story to
Speaker 4: some extent, we've been able to learn from them.
Speaker 1: Well, one question I have which I ask all my
Speaker 1: guests before they go, and that is, what's an amazing
Speaker 1: story from behind the scenes that we as an audience
Speaker 1: would appreciate that we may not have seen.
Speaker 4: That's a really good question. It was an unusual project though,
Speaker 4: because it was all done so remotely. No, it's hard
Speaker 4: to think of a behind the scenes moment because as
Speaker 4: a group, we've never really been together. We've all been
Speaker 4: like in our different spaces.
Speaker 2: We did film, There was a lot of filming. Most
Speaker 2: of it was in the basement of World of Wonder,
Speaker 2: with everybody masked up, and a lot of experimentation ink
Speaker 2: drops into water and ice cubes into glasses and you
Speaker 2: know stuff that I mean, we love doing that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 4: I mean, it is so strange. We have not met
Speaker 4: a single person in the series other than Rona, right,
Speaker 4: I mean face to face Brandy. I met Harvey Weinstein
Speaker 4: once and in passing and it wasn't it's so weird,
Speaker 4: like nothing to do with this project. But even we
Speaker 4: were at Sundance and was barreling down Main Street and
Speaker 4: you just the ck factor was I don't know, I
Speaker 4: just just I personally always thought he was a repulsive person.
Speaker 1: I've been in your audience for so long, and I
Speaker 1: could all continue to be and thank you for telling
Speaker 1: such amazing stories, and I will all forever be in
Speaker 1: your audience.
Speaker 4: I hear you, thank you for watching it. That's so touching.
Speaker 1: Thank you,