WEBVTT - Catch and Kill: The Podcast Tapes 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.320 Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.120 on this podcast, I'll be going behind the scenes with 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.360 the biggest players in television. Thanks to all of those 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.480 subscribers who sent me some amazing feedback on last week's 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.680 episode with Big Brother winner Maali. He was a fantastic 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.960 chat and it was an eye opener into the current 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.200 landscape in reality television. If you missed it, you can 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.919 flip back and catch up on that episode on all 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.760 of your podcast platforms, including my Heart Radio. As you know, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.440 I love to recommend other people's podcasts, and this week 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.560 I've been listening to So Bad It's Good because one 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.040 of my favorite podcasters, Jacques Peterson, guested on their pod. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.360 It's a must for all pop culture enthusiasts, so check 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.640 that one out. This week, my partner and I have 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.199 been watching Love Island UK as a precursor to the 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.280 Love Island Australian series which is about to go into production. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.760 It's really light entertainment and if you're into voyeurism and 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.600 shameless flirting check it out. You won't want to miss 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.160 those bikini lines and it's on Channel lines catch up 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.400 Platform nine now if you want to have a look. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.200 Next week, I have Caitlin Shay on the podcast, who 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.200 is an executive producer of Australian Story on the ABC. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.800 After twenty five years of working on the show, Caitlin 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.400 is ready to unpack one of Australia's most love programs. FYI, 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.240 there is actually a back catalog of past episodes on 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.679 ABC dot net dot Au and if you love stories told, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.240 well dip back into those past episodes. I'm sure you 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.199 will end up as addicted to them as I have been. 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.240 This week on the podcast, I have Venton Bailey and 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.039 Randy Barbado, who are the founders of World Wonder. Both 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.320 of these guys are as inspiring as you could ever imagine. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.200 I personally have followed their work for years. They are 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.800 a award winning Emmy winners who most would know are 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.920 behind the global phenomenon of RuPaul's Drag Race. But at 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.560 their core they are storytellers who have been giving voices 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.520 to those who need a bigger platform, who deserve a 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.880 bigger platform. Their documentary film work includes Carrie Fisher's Wishful Drinking, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.880 The Eyes of Tammy Fay Monika and Black and White 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.240 Gender Revolution with Katie Curic and The Last Beekeeper. They 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.760 have a mission to tell the truth and to be honest, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.080 and their work is simply unbelievable. This week we will 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.360 focus on their new series Catch and Kill the podcast tapes, 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.800 which debuts on Binge here in Australia and HBO internationally 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.840 on July thirteenth. The documentary follows the Harvey Weinstein investigation 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.440 and explores the systems protecting powerful men accused of awful crimes. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.560 We've never before seen footage from this culture shaking story book. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.520 This one into your calendar because the series is groundbreaking 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.120 and it'll blow your mind in ways that you won't expect. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.040 I do want to offer a content warning at this point. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.080 There are general discussions of violence against minorities, specific discussions 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.359 of assault and rape that may upset some listeners. If 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.160 you are triggered by some of this content, please contact 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.120 Beyond Blue, who provides information and support to help everyday Australians. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.799 But let's get started with the boys who I chatted 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.400 with in the US. Welcome to TV, Reload, Venton and Randy. 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.200 You know, in all fair we only make films about 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:03.680 things we're passionate about. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.360 We're living in a precarious moment when it comes to 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.040 the free press. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.320 It felt like a really important piece of work. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.400 I said, Ronan Pharaoh has broken the code. He's got 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.160 the good sound of wise there. And I think it's 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.360 fair to say that everyone who has come forward, there 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.040 are many many more who have not. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.200 And there were some disturbing moments where I was kind 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.880 of shocked by how much he expected things to go 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:27.360 his way. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.840 Trump was a bully who simply was never stopped. No 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.720 one ever stood up to him putting new claims of 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.120 sexual harassment, assault and rape. And if you don't stand 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.480 up to a bully, they could well end up being 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:41.240 the president. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:43.800 Hi, guys, how are you both good? 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:45.080 Thanks today? 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.720 You know, it's funny with this podcast. I quite often 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.240 say gooday when I'm talking to people overseas, But the 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.480 last time I did it, they didn't understand what I 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:53.920 was saying. I think they thought I was talking in 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.400 a completely different language. So I've stopped saying gooday. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.000 It Rue likes to say Ozzy OSSI I know. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:02.760 And I loved that he did that, and he did 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.720 it for every episode of RuPaul's Down Under, which I 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.040 just thought was so fantastic. 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:08.960 Asiasiazzi. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.000 He really did seem to embrace a lot of the 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.840 Australian culture. But that's not what we're talking about today. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.120 We're talking about something else. And I want to say 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.560 congratulations on this documentary series, Catch and Kill the podcast tapes. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.000 It is so compelling and it offers so much detail 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.320 in such a compelling manner. Randy, are you proud of 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:30.599 the finished product? 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.279 Oh, we're really proud of the finished product. I mean, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.320 it was a very It was a major passion project 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.880 for Fenton and myself and everyone who worked on the team. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.560 I think we were all really moved by the participants 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.880 and by Ronan's work on the book and on the 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.279 podcast and on the series. So it felt like a 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.680 really important piece of work for us. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.880 This is the story of the efforts to uncover the 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:04.239 truth about how powerful and predatory man for decades evated justice. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.240 It's the story of how media and law enforcement and 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.159 the world of private espionage protected that man. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:11.480 Oh I knew there's going. 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:12.240 To be retaliation. 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:13.800 I didn't think there's going to be such. 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.360 Collusion, and how in the end all of that wasn't 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.840 enough in the face of a group of sources who 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.160 risked everything to expose the truth. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.920 Why did you decide to hone in on this particular story. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.359 Well, HBO came to us and said that they had 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.880 in the course of Ronan doing his podcast, he had 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.760 taped the interviews and they were like, could we do 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:36.800 something with them? And we took a look at them, 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:38.480 and they were just so powerful. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:38.960 You know. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.240 I think you can you can read a transcript, or 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.520 you can listen to an audio clip, but when you 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.400 actually see someone talking about being raped by Harvey Weinstein 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.159 and the trauma of that experience, and you see them 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.760 literally reliving it in front of your eyes, it's overwhelming. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.240 When you say sexual assault, what do you mean except 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.480 what did mister Weinstein do to you? He forced himself 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.760 on me sexually when it was unwanted. Why are you 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.679 speaking out about this today? Because I don't want anyone 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:13.000 else to have to live with this. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.800 And we just felt it was really important to tell 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.400 that story. Even though I think people at large know 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.720 the basic headlines, you know, and have seen bits and 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.320 pieces of the story, we just felt this was a 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.800 real opportunity to bring it home for people in a 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.640 very real way. Harvey Weinstein may be a movie mogul, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.120 but he's as Rose McGowan says in one of our interviews, 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.240 you know, I want the lawyers to look at this 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.359 because this is something that happens to their daughters, to 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.839 their mothers, to their sisters. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.200 It's fact. Yeah, that's the end of the quote. Fact 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.200 And there's nothing more compelling I think when you're telling 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.920 a story than when you're talking about the truth. When 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.559 did you guys know that the subject matter was worth 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.400 a TV series and what did you guys personally want 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:02.520 to add to the conversation. 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:04.720 I mean, I think that that you know, we were 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.800 huge fans of the book, of the original article, the 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:14.600 book and the podcast, so for us, the opportunity to 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:19.120 amplify the message was kind of a no brainer. I mean, 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.320 the challenge was how to do it, But I think 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.400 you know, we we were fans from the get go 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.840 and we thought it was an extraordinary story. And the 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.760 more you learn about it, the more you get beyond 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.800 the headlines, the broader the story is, the more significant 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:42.200 the story is because it's not just the Harvey Weinstein story. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.160 It's the story of how that story came to be. 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:50.240 It's the story of the threat to investigative journalism that 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.440 is going on all over the world. So I think 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.880 it was always the story that we're very interested in, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.960 and then to be presented with the opportunity to make 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.400 a TV adaptation of the podcast was like. 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.920 Where, Yeah, Well, I think that that's what was so 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.000 powerful about this was that, yes, we get the headline, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.480 we know that it's Ronan Parah, we know that it's 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.680 Harvey Weinstein, but you know, I don't want to take 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.560 anything away from the viewer, but there is very much 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.600 that theme of protecting the journalist and in protecting the 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.760 journalist's integrity, which I thought was so powerfully underwritten throughout 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.520 the story. How would you describe the relationship that you 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.040 have with Ronan Parah now? And I guess what was 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.320 your take home experience for the both of you. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.480 I think the relationship with Ronan is really one of 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.360 profound respect. I mean, I think it took an enormous 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.560 amount of courage for him to do what he did, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:44.080 and also his producing partner at NBC, Rich McHugh, who 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.520 actually lost his job over this. They put an awful 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.280 lot on the line, as did the people who spoke 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.679 to Ronan, the whistleblowers and it was by no means 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.199 an easy, clear direct path from them coming to Ronan 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.200 to the story being published. Even Ambergerts Tiers, who the 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.719 New York Police asked her to wear a wire and 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.840 she did, and she got this amazing confession from Harvey Weinstein. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.120 You would have thought that would be the end of 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:15.400 the story. They would arrest him, charges, trial, locked up, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.680 but it wasn't that at all, and in fact, she 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.959 found herself on trial, sort of smeared in the press. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.720 And you realize that the sort of path of getting 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.120 this story out in front of the public was a 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.600 really hard path with lots of twists and turns, and 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.040 the outcome was never certain. So along answer to your 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.080 question is just we have tremendous respect for Ronan and 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.199 all the people he talked to and the people he 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.240 worked with in getting this story out there, because you know, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.320 it's quite possible that perhaps one it might never have 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.080 come out. You know, just one tiny detail, you know, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.439 Amber Gutierrez wore that police wire. But the reason we 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:59.280 heard that tape and Harvey Weinstein badgering her and harassing 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:04.079 her is becau she on her own initiative, but her 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 iPhone in her bag on record as well. Once you'd 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.840 done the wine handed it over, she no longer had 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.240 the tape, but she had had the presence of mind 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.800 to make her own version. And it's only because of 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.280 that that we have that It's extraordinary. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.400 Really, When we told them we had a copy of 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:26.240 the recording, Weinstein was shocked. I need to know a person. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.280 I won't do a thing I want to think. Please, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.560 I swear, I won't just sit with me. Don't embarrass 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:33.480 me in the hotel. I'm here all the time. Please, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:34.720 I'm not going to do anything. 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:35.920 I swear my children. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.240 It's like a run of events. And I think the 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.160 saddest thing about some of these realities is it's a 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:47.360 breeding ground for depression and for ongoing personal issue when 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.080 we're told not to feel a certain way, and the 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.679 problem for a lot of these victims was that they 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.319 were continuously made to feel like they weren't allowed to 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.240 feel that way. And then in this documentary we get 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.400 to see the reaction, We get to say see it 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.720 then play out over a period of time. Do you 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.679 think that Harvey played an open game of chess with 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.559 these players? I mean, you have Nicole Kidman and Kate 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.720 Blanchette in the front as a diversion and as an attraction. 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.760 But then he sort of repeatedly attacked or seemed to 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.719 happen with people who didn't have a large voice or 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.280 a global platform. Is that a deliberate and sociopathic game 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:23.800 that he played on his behalf. 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:29.320 Well, he definitely prayed on vulnerable and innocent women. I 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:34.040 mean he definitely was a sort of power play. And yeah, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.320 I think it was. You know, I'm not a doctor. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.480 I couldn't sort of diagnose it as sociopathic, but it 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:46.760 was sick and twisted and exploitative. It happened over and 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.080 over again. And I think, you know, going back to 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:56.240 the courageous women who spoke out, they not only experienced 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:03.200 this horrific trauma of either being attacked or harassed or exploited, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.120 they had to live it over and over again. Coming 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.240 out to speak about that is like reliving that trauma 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:15.520 and inviting the media and people to sort of scrutinize. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.080 And you know, people aren't always kind. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.640 I thought I was for an hour at a meeting, 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.640 and then on the way out it turned into anatomy. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:33.800 Was this a sexual assault? Yes, this was a rape. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:39.480 Yes, For me, I feel like our series is more 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.880 about all these courageous people that took him down, and 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.000 the series is a reminder that there can be hope 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.200 and there are ways to combat these sorts of forces, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.720 and that there's there are ways for truth to trump power. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.320 Absolutely. You know, in two thousand and seven, I was 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.560 living in Las Angela's and a friend of mine caught 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.920 up with Harvey Weinstein and he told her a story 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.040 about a very famous actress that was currently working at Miramax. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.960 He told this Australian friend of mine, who is an actress, 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.240 that this Hollywood film star gained her career by performing 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.560 a sexual act in front of him. It was one 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.679 hundred percent an offer and an assumption that a quid 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.440 pro quo was on the table. How many times that 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.640 happened in real life prior to this expose a of 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.400 Harvey we will never know. But my question to you 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.480 both is do you think this type of documentary will 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.520 make an impact on the culture of the cast and 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:34.560 couch moving forward. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.960 I think it will make a difference. I mean I 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.800 think that yes. A couple of things really. One is 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.400 that the extent of Harvey's predation. You're right, we probably 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.360 never will know, because I think something that is examined 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.720 by the people in the series is very much the 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.800 pros and cons of coming forward and how they deliberated 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.320 about whether to come forward or not, and the tremendous 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.000 anxiety about doing that. And I think it's fair to 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.280 say that everyone who has come forward, there are many 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.480 many more who have not, and that's no shade to them. 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.160 I think it's it's an incredibly difficult thing to do, 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.679 takes great courage, and it's extremely risky. I don't think 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.600 it's not all upside by any means, but I do 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.120 think there is a rising tide and a sense that 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.240 enough is enough, and there is a sea change, and 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.800 I think that that's why you have the me Too movement, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.480 which I think has been largely triggered by this Harvey 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.760 Weinstein scandal. But it's absolutely a current story. It doesn't 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.200 mean that all the work is done and all the 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.160 bad guys have gone. I think the problem in America 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:41.120 is that the bully type is tolerated, even lauded, and 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.000 has been given a free pass for far too long, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.800 so to an extent that it's almost become institutionalized. And 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.800 I think you can look for proof of that no 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.800 further than the president we had for the last four years. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.640 I mean, Trump was a bully who simply was never stopped. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.400 No one ever stood up to him. And if you 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.560 don't stand up to a bully, they could well end 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.240 up being the president. And the cost of that is inestimable. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.360 The number of lies lost, wrecked, destroyed. And let's not 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.400 forget Trump is someone who's been accused by twenty five 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.080 or twenty six women of rape and assault and harassment. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.440 So it's not just the hundreds of thousands of lies 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.440 lost because of complete incompetence in the face of a pandemic. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.040 It's also sex crimes as well. And he's still out 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.280 there walking free. So I think there's a long way 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.160 of saying I think there's a tremendous amount of work 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:33.440 still to too here. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.880 We just hope that this kind of work does highlight it, 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.560 you know, that does start to draw a line under it. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.320 I mean, we never will ever erode or eradicate the 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.640 villains in the world. It's very hard to do that. 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.640 But to be a good documentary filmmaker. How much are 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.400 you guys allowed to have a bias? I mean, no 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.400 matter how guilty, do you try and restrict your presentation 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:54.840 in any way. 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.440 You know, in this instance, for this series, we've made 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:04.640 many documentaries. This series is based on some incredible reporting 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:11.560 and some well sourced and well researched investigative journalism, so 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:18.640 we have no hesitations about the truths within it. So 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.320 you know, in all fairness, we only make films about 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.680 things we're passionate about, about things that we feel stories 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.520 that we feel are important to share about people who 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.240 either inspire us or who we feel need to be heard, 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.440 and this is absolutely an example of all of those things. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.440 Well, the success of true crime and unpacking criminal cases 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.200 has a lot to do with making the audiences feel 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.920 like that they are detectives, that they are the ones 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.920 solving the crime. How did you plan and produce this 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.360 story and what tactics did you try and use to 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:54.880 keepe the view enthralled? 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.520 Well, you're right, it is a true crime story. But 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.480 I think sometimes true crime gives too much space to 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.080 the criminal and sort of inevitably puts them on a platform. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.320 And I think, funnily enough, in this story, the least 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.320 important person is Harvey Weinstein, and our approach was very 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.400 much to focus on the victims, and so each episode 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.800 is very much about a different person, whether it's Amber 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.879 Gutierrez in the first episode who wore that wire, or 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.280 Rowena Chu who was an assistant to Harvey Weinstein who 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.640 he assaulted. These are all individual episodes in the series. 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.840 Another episode is the reporters ken A Ladder and Kim Masters, 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.919 who tried to break this story for many years. So 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.080 I think that that was our approach is a sort 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.480 of really, we're telling the story of the story, how 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.919 the story came out, and yes there's a true crime perspective, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:51.240 but we're not really interested in giving space to the criminal. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.480 We're inspired by all of these whistleblowers and journalists and 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.480 Rich Mchue, the producer who worked with rown In. They're 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.280 the heroes of the story and they're you know, the 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.960 hope is that they will inspire others. The hope is 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:14.639 that their strength and their voices will inspire people to 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:20.080 either support other whistleblowers or to speak truth that they 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.959 may have been anxious about speaking in the pasts. 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.960 Interestingly enough, you know, watching this documentary series after it finished, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.560 it bled into my life in so many different ways. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.120 I did watch it twice, and I had the same 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.320 reaction both times as I finished it, and it made 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.360 me want to be a better person. I don't know 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.760 how that is possible when the subject matter is sometimes 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.159 so bleak, but the ability for these courageous people to 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.080 share their stories was just so palpable, Like it was 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.800 just so courageous. I don't know. I just walked out 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.119 of it afterwards, being like, I want to prepare my 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.320 interviews better, I want to cook my dinner better. And 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.119 I think that's such a strange response, don't you think 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.199 to watching something like this, I. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:01.560 Think it's very kind of you to say that. I 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.840 also think, in a sense, I do think the story 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:06.960 connects to all of us. I don't think by any 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.040 means all of us have been subjected necessarily to sexual harassment, 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.919 but I do think we all know what a bully is, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.880 and I think that if anyone walks away strengthened and 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.760 inspired to stand up to a bully, I think that's great, 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.120 because I think there is no time like the present 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.400 to stop a bully, and if you don't stop them, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.359 they're just going to go on and abuse more people 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.280 and run for president. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:33.080 Right. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.439 Call them out, you know, call them out before it happens. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.760 I think that's the message. You know, how many times 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.320 do you think that you or anyone can hear a 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.560 story before it becomes true or in this case, becomes investigated. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.240 Well, you know, it's an interesting situation, like just you know, 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.720 Ronan's just written a new piece in The New Yorker 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:50.600 all about Britney. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.119 Spears and the the Conservativeship. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.840 Yeah, conservativeship, which is what it's been thirteen years. And 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.720 I do feel with her recent court appearance there's a 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:04.600 sense in which she's being heard. But then on the 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.960 other hand, you know, the judge ruled not to dissolve 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:12.800 the conservatorship, and then you've got Bill Cosby who's just 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.359 been you know, whose case was just overturned. You know, 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.760 it doesn't change the fact that he drugged and raped 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:19.920 multiple women. 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:22.520 And he admitted to it. You know, like that's the 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.480 hard thing, you know, like there's a confession on the 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:27.639 record at some point, and then you're trying to change 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.880 the narrative. It's it's terrifying to think that these things 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.439 can happen now, you know, people in positions of power 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.080 have been protected by fear that they install into their victims. 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.800 Do you think that people these days can't get away 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.760 with as much because of the visibility allowed, you know, 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.000 or available due to the Internet. You know, here we are, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.399 I'm in Melbourne, Australia talking to you guys, which is 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.280 kind of amazing. But do you think that now because 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.800 of the Internet, that that is allowing people to be 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.560 I don't know, to take away some of that private 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.280 fear that gets installed into them because there are means 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.280 to be able to share your story potentially. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.919 Yes. At the same time, though, I think you've got 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.880 to bear in mind that, you know, fear is still 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.000 being used to control people and intimidate them into silence 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:16.280 in all sorts of ways, you know, And and I 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.040