1 00:00:02,350 --> 00:00:05,149 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Sit Down. 2 00:00:05,390 --> 00:00:07,330 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Trollope, a writer for ozopen.com. 3 00:00:07,780 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 2: And I'm Viv Christie, managing editor of Australian Tennis Magazine. 4 00:00:11,740 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: And Matt, why do we sit down this week with 5 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:14,700 Speaker 2: Simon Ray? 6 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: Well, Viv, we've always wanted to sit down with Simon Ray, 7 00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: I think. He's a long-term colleague of ours who's arrived 8 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: in Australia via New Zealand. And so we had a 9 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,900 Speaker 1: really wide-ranging chat about how he discovered the game in 10 00:00:25,940 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: New Zealand, the kinds of players he went on to 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,620 Speaker 1: work with, including Nick Kyrgios and Sam Stoza, And now 12 00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: that he's moved into the data analysis space. So it was, yeah, 13 00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: it was fascinating to pick his brain on all of 14 00:00:37,270 --> 00:00:37,670 Speaker 1: these things. 15 00:00:38,110 --> 00:00:40,930 Speaker 2: This is actually one of my favourite interviews that we've 16 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:43,770 Speaker 2: done so far for The Sit Down. Simon was so 17 00:00:44,390 --> 00:00:47,450 Speaker 2: candid and insightful and his passion for the sport really 18 00:00:47,470 --> 00:00:47,890 Speaker 2: shone through. 19 00:00:50,990 --> 00:00:53,090 Speaker 1: Simon Ray, thank you very much for joining us in 20 00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:54,110 Speaker 1: the studio today. 21 00:00:54,130 --> 00:00:56,090 Speaker 3: Hi, Matt. Hi, Viv. Thanks for having me. Good to 22 00:00:56,110 --> 00:00:56,390 Speaker 3: be here. 23 00:00:56,610 --> 00:00:59,490 Speaker 1: Why don't we start at the beginning? and how you 24 00:00:59,530 --> 00:01:01,870 Speaker 1: came to play tennis in a country like New Zealand, 25 00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:04,690 Speaker 1: which maybe compared to Australia doesn't have quite the same 26 00:01:04,730 --> 00:01:07,570 Speaker 1: tennis tradition or visibility. 27 00:01:07,030 --> 00:01:09,410 Speaker 3: At the top level. Yeah, no, I think that's really fair. Yeah, 28 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:11,810 Speaker 3: it's been a while since I explored that question or 29 00:01:11,850 --> 00:01:14,130 Speaker 3: thought about that question. I grew up on the North 30 00:01:14,150 --> 00:01:16,149 Speaker 3: Shore of Auckland back in New Zealand, as you describe, 31 00:01:16,209 --> 00:01:20,649 Speaker 3: and really stumbled across tennis almost quite literally. So dad 32 00:01:20,730 --> 00:01:23,420 Speaker 3: used to walk the dog near the lake. There's a 33 00:01:23,470 --> 00:01:26,140 Speaker 3: natural freshwater lake, a volcanic lake near where we live. 34 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,170 Speaker 3: And um, on the North shore of Auckland. And, um, 35 00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:32,150 Speaker 3: the dog would really enjoy being exercised near that lake 36 00:01:32,510 --> 00:01:34,510 Speaker 3: and the tennis courts board of the lake, Lake Pupuki 37 00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:36,530 Speaker 3: on the North shore of Auckland near Milford and Takapuna. 38 00:01:36,930 --> 00:01:39,370 Speaker 3: And the dog would be hunting for tennis balls and, um, 39 00:01:39,430 --> 00:01:41,490 Speaker 3: finding plenty that had gone over the fence. And one 40 00:01:41,530 --> 00:01:44,190 Speaker 3: day an elderly gentleman, um, beckoned me down to the 41 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:45,770 Speaker 3: court when I was there with my dog, I think, 42 00:01:46,010 --> 00:01:47,310 Speaker 3: and maybe I'd had a racket in my hand and 43 00:01:47,330 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 3: I was hitting on the wall, the volleyball, the volleyball wall, 44 00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:53,530 Speaker 3: you know, which never misses. And Joe O'Rourke, this great 45 00:01:53,610 --> 00:01:56,230 Speaker 3: Catholic man from the Milford Tennis Club on the North 46 00:01:56,250 --> 00:01:58,230 Speaker 3: Shore of Auckland, said to me, come on down, come 47 00:01:58,290 --> 00:02:00,270 Speaker 3: on down. And he went on, I must have been, 48 00:02:00,290 --> 00:02:01,690 Speaker 3: I don't know, seven or eight, and he went on 49 00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:05,110 Speaker 3: to hit with me before school, most mornings for the 50 00:02:05,170 --> 00:02:07,980 Speaker 3: next three or four years. And he wasn't a coach, 51 00:02:08,260 --> 00:02:09,860 Speaker 3: as we know a coach, but he was a volunteer 52 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: at the club. He was fixing up the fence. He 53 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 3: was fixing the lights when they were out of action. 54 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,540 Speaker 3: He was teaching me life lessons. He was a World 55 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,299 Speaker 3: War II veteran. I was a pallbearer at his funeral, 56 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,940 Speaker 3: and he was the most remarkable man And so that 57 00:02:20,980 --> 00:02:23,260 Speaker 3: was my introduction to tennis. He literally, out of the 58 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: goodness of his heart, introduced me to the sport, became 59 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:27,980 Speaker 3: a part of our family, or I became a part 60 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,299 Speaker 3: of his. And so it was really that fateful kind 61 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 3: of path that led me to the sport of tennis. 62 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,060 Speaker 1: What was it that made you stick with tennis or 63 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:36,790 Speaker 1: that you loved about it? 64 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 3: I guess there was a part of me that really enjoyed, 65 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,790 Speaker 3: and this is probably two parts or two sides of 66 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:46,770 Speaker 3: this coin. I think later on in life, and perhaps 67 00:02:46,810 --> 00:02:50,470 Speaker 3: this is me thinking about the grass being greener, there's 68 00:02:50,510 --> 00:02:52,130 Speaker 3: a part of me that wishes, I wonder if I'd 69 00:02:52,169 --> 00:02:54,790 Speaker 3: explored a team sport for a little longer and the 70 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:57,769 Speaker 3: appeal of the team sport. But I think being young 71 00:02:57,830 --> 00:03:00,450 Speaker 3: and ambitious and driven, I think what I really would 72 00:03:00,470 --> 00:03:03,190 Speaker 3: have enjoyed was that hard work, which is something that 73 00:03:03,250 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 3: I've tried to pride myself on over the journey as 74 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: a solid enough work ethic, the reward for effort there. 75 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,220 Speaker 3: So if you wake up in the morning and get 76 00:03:12,260 --> 00:03:14,380 Speaker 3: to work, whether it's on the volleyball or with Joe O'Rourke, 77 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 3: who was a self-taught man, or with my first formal 78 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,270 Speaker 3: coach at the Milford Tennis Club and The harder you work, 79 00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:23,030 Speaker 3: the luckier you tend to get and the more doors 80 00:03:23,130 --> 00:03:25,970 Speaker 3: open for you. And so I think that was probably 81 00:03:26,070 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: one of the things was the competitor in me was 82 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:33,420 Speaker 3: growing and evolving and I was seeing opportunity out of 83 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,340 Speaker 3: my hard work. And that's always a nice feeling, I think, 84 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:38,940 Speaker 3: anytime for all of us when we get reward for effort. 85 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,540 Speaker 3: So it was probably that right back at a, now 86 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,580 Speaker 3: I'm talking a little bit older, probably 11, 12, 13, 87 00:03:43,580 --> 00:03:47,300 Speaker 3: as I got into the competitive pathway that existed in 88 00:03:47,340 --> 00:03:48,060 Speaker 3: tennis in New Zealand. 89 00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:50,730 Speaker 1: And your competitive pathway took you to college, I think. 90 00:03:51,090 --> 00:03:51,810 Speaker 3: Yeah. 91 00:03:51,950 --> 00:03:52,790 Speaker 1: University of Tennessee. 92 00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:53,690 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes. 93 00:03:54,010 --> 00:03:55,710 Speaker 1: And then also the New Zealand Davis Cup team. 94 00:03:55,730 --> 00:03:57,590 Speaker 3: Yeah. So you mentioned, Matt, and I think it's a 95 00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: good segue in, you mentioned probably part of the limited 96 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: lineage that tennis in New Zealand has experienced compared to 97 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: the incredible lineage of tennis in this country, in Australia. 98 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,900 Speaker 3: And I think that's really fair. But one of the 99 00:04:10,860 --> 00:04:13,990 Speaker 3: childhood heroes of all of us down in New Zealand 100 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: was Chris Lewis, who made that Wimbledon final in 1983, 101 00:04:16,430 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: I think it was, against John McEnroe. And that was 102 00:04:19,540 --> 00:04:22,969 Speaker 3: a moment that all New Zealanders tended to remember. Chris 103 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:25,510 Speaker 3: ended up, and his brother Mark, who coached Michael Stick, 104 00:04:25,730 --> 00:04:28,710 Speaker 3: who was the German Wimbledon champion. So there was a 105 00:04:29,130 --> 00:04:31,830 Speaker 3: bit of a coaching royalty between Chris and Mark there 106 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 3: in New Zealand. And both of those two ended up 107 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,140 Speaker 3: coaching me at 17, 18. And I was a handy 108 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,180 Speaker 3: junior in New Zealand. You know, I was probably final 109 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: of 12s nationals and semi-final of 14s nationals. But I 110 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:44,549 Speaker 3: was never really the best junior in the country. Until 111 00:04:44,570 --> 00:04:46,070 Speaker 3: I had started to have a little bit more success, 112 00:04:46,270 --> 00:04:48,390 Speaker 3: really by virtue of the fact that I came under 113 00:04:48,430 --> 00:04:50,150 Speaker 3: Chris and Mark's umbrella for a couple of years there 114 00:04:50,170 --> 00:04:52,830 Speaker 3: at 17, 18. I was finishing my time at Auckland 115 00:04:52,850 --> 00:04:55,180 Speaker 3: Grammar School at the same time. And that was 17, 116 00:04:55,180 --> 00:04:57,930 Speaker 3: 18 was when I first broke through to become the 117 00:04:57,970 --> 00:04:59,850 Speaker 3: national champion, if you like, in the 18. So it 118 00:04:59,890 --> 00:05:01,940 Speaker 3: took me, I was around the mark, but it took 119 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:05,020 Speaker 3: me until 17 probably to win my first national title. 120 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,820 Speaker 3: And off the back of that. At 18, look, I 121 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,460 Speaker 3: thought I was ready and good enough to go and 122 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:11,700 Speaker 3: play professionally and I was driven and hungry and wanted 123 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,220 Speaker 3: to chase the dream like every 17 or 18-year-old did. But, 124 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: you know, mum and dad probably had the good counsel 125 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,500 Speaker 3: and the good awareness, A, to know they couldn't afford 126 00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 3: it and, B, perhaps to see some of the things 127 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: that I couldn't see and go, oh, I'm not sure, 128 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: in their own minds maybe. I'm not sure if they 129 00:05:25,779 --> 00:05:27,140 Speaker 3: thought that would be a question that I'd have to 130 00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:29,860 Speaker 3: ask them today. But really the only path for me 131 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: financially where we were at was the US college system 132 00:05:32,740 --> 00:05:35,420 Speaker 3: and the University of Tennessee system. And Chris Marnie, who 133 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,870 Speaker 3: was responsible for giving me my first coaching job here 134 00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:42,010 Speaker 3: at Tennis Australia, was my assistant coach there in Knoxville 135 00:05:42,029 --> 00:05:45,490 Speaker 3: at the University of Tennessee. So sometimes, what's that saying? 136 00:05:45,529 --> 00:05:46,810 Speaker 3: It's not what you know, it's who you know. And 137 00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: that's certainly been something that's been true for me in 138 00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:53,060 Speaker 3: my journey in tennis over the two or three decades 139 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,260 Speaker 3: I've been lucky enough to be in the sport. 140 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:56,820 Speaker 2: And then you, of course, went on to have a 141 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,660 Speaker 2: coaching career. How did that coaching career come about? 142 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:03,670 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mentioned Chris. Really, to this day, very 143 00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: indebted to Chris. So, yeah, I mentioned my playing ambitions, 144 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: and I probably had one shot at that and graduated 145 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:13,740 Speaker 3: from the University of Tennessee. I finished my playing eligibility 146 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:16,900 Speaker 3: in 2004, but I hadn't finished my, ironically enough, journalism 147 00:06:16,940 --> 00:06:18,500 Speaker 3: degree at that point in time. 148 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:20,020 Speaker 1: Yes, we saw that on your LinkedIn. 149 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,140 Speaker 3: I did go back and finish that in 2006 and 150 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: was really fortunate that the university, because it's in their interest, 151 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,810 Speaker 3: they want to graduate their student-athletes. they would pay for 152 00:06:28,830 --> 00:06:31,900 Speaker 3: you to come back and do that. So look, long 153 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,020 Speaker 3: story short, we had a really disappointing Davis Cup loss 154 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: there to Pakistan, I think in 2004. I had a 155 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: base in America at the time. I had an American 156 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,580 Speaker 3: girlfriend at the time. And I wasn't as resilient in hindsight. 157 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: I wasn't as resilient as I would hope that my 158 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,810 Speaker 3: kids would be in the same situation. I probably thought, oh, look, 159 00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:50,610 Speaker 3: this is getting a bit hard. I'm running low on funds. 160 00:06:50,670 --> 00:06:52,390 Speaker 3: I've got an American girlfriend back here. We've had this 161 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:56,029 Speaker 3: really disappointing, diabolical loss to Pakistan. We're down to group 162 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:58,620 Speaker 3: two in Asia-Oceania for the first time ever. It went 163 00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:01,620 Speaker 3: a bit pear-shaped in the team environment. We lost 3-2, 164 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,020 Speaker 3: and I was the loser of the three ties and 165 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,140 Speaker 3: the five-match rubber, if you like. It wasn't a great 166 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,890 Speaker 3: sequence of events, if you like. And at that point 167 00:07:11,910 --> 00:07:13,490 Speaker 3: in time, I thought, look, I'm never going to play again. 168 00:07:13,630 --> 00:07:17,650 Speaker 3: And it was only as a byproduct of finishing your studies. 169 00:07:17,690 --> 00:07:19,670 Speaker 3: You were required to come and hit some balls with 170 00:07:19,690 --> 00:07:22,230 Speaker 3: the next student athletes that were coming through. So a 171 00:07:22,270 --> 00:07:25,390 Speaker 3: year or two later, I started doing some informal coaching 172 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:28,740 Speaker 3: with some youngsters on the team. and found myself that 173 00:07:28,780 --> 00:07:31,780 Speaker 3: little bit older, perhaps that little bit wiser, that's arguable, 174 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: just a different perspective on life. And as I was 175 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,300 Speaker 3: coming towards the later stages of my actual degree, I 176 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: thought I'm probably hitting the ball better than I ever 177 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 3: had before and started to play again. And that's when 178 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,230 Speaker 3: I had just a little bit of really lower level 179 00:07:44,290 --> 00:07:47,010 Speaker 3: success on what we called the future circuit back then. 180 00:07:47,030 --> 00:07:50,570 Speaker 3: And look, in 2008, I had some arm problems. That 181 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:53,450 Speaker 3: wasn't the reason. I realized at 26 years of age, 182 00:07:53,470 --> 00:07:56,350 Speaker 3: I think at that point in time, 2008, yep, I'm 183 00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: not good enough. and I'm never going to be good enough. 184 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:04,180 Speaker 3: So that can be quite a confronting or certainly provide 185 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,460 Speaker 3: a bit of a jolt in your life, a bit 186 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:07,620 Speaker 3: of a where to next. And for me, it was 187 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 3: quite simple. I'd always loved coaching of all sports. I'd 188 00:08:10,990 --> 00:08:14,290 Speaker 3: always studied coaches. Coach K during my time in the 189 00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:18,370 Speaker 3: States at the Duke University men's basketball program or you 190 00:08:18,450 --> 00:08:21,410 Speaker 3: name a coaching book, Paul Ruse's book back here in Melbourne, 191 00:08:21,910 --> 00:08:24,690 Speaker 3: I'd read it as a teenager. I was passionate about coaching, 192 00:08:24,750 --> 00:08:27,790 Speaker 3: not just tennis, but kind of all things sport. And 193 00:08:27,830 --> 00:08:30,410 Speaker 3: so if it was a case of, I think there's 194 00:08:30,470 --> 00:08:31,910 Speaker 3: a saying for that as well, what you can't do, 195 00:08:31,930 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: you try to teach. So I thought, hey, I'm not 196 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:35,819 Speaker 3: going to be able to make it as an elite player. 197 00:08:35,860 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 3: I'm not good enough. I don't have the ability. I'm 198 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: not going to crack that glass ceiling. Let me try 199 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: and turn my hand to something that maybe I can 200 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 3: be truly great at. And I don't think I've, by 201 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: no means have I been truly great at coaching, but 202 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,540 Speaker 3: the opportunity that Chris, as my assistant coach at Tennessee, 203 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: had then pivoted to become the head coach at what 204 00:08:53,070 --> 00:08:55,270 Speaker 3: was the National Academy in Melbourne back at that time, 205 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,819 Speaker 3: He was short on staff and he said, hey, look, 206 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 3: there's no guarantees here, son, but if you'd like to 207 00:08:59,860 --> 00:09:02,300 Speaker 3: pursue this, you can go through the process and try 208 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,020 Speaker 3: to win the role. So I did and Melbourne became 209 00:09:05,059 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: home for me back in 2008. So that was really 210 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,350 Speaker 3: what opened my pathway to the last, or the best 211 00:09:12,390 --> 00:09:14,350 Speaker 3: part of the last couple of decades here at Tennis Australia. 212 00:09:15,130 --> 00:09:15,610 Speaker 1: That's awesome. 213 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:20,750 Speaker 2: And you have coached some high-profile players, including Nick Kyrgios 214 00:09:20,950 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: at Wimbledon in 2014. He made his run to the quarterfinals. 215 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:29,979 Speaker 2: What was that experience like working with him? 216 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,059 Speaker 3: Look, I reflect on my time with Nick. It's a 217 00:09:32,179 --> 00:09:34,300 Speaker 3: long time ago now. It's a decade ago. I reflect 218 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,660 Speaker 3: on my time with Nick really fondly by and large. 219 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:40,209 Speaker 3: That's not to say that weren't challenges along the way. 220 00:09:40,570 --> 00:09:44,970 Speaker 3: And Nick is someone that would certainly challenge you as 221 00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:48,689 Speaker 3: a coach. I learned an enormous amount from Nick. Just 222 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:50,750 Speaker 3: on your first point, I think Brent Larkham, who was 223 00:09:50,809 --> 00:09:52,670 Speaker 3: another person that's been a really big influence on my 224 00:09:52,690 --> 00:09:55,770 Speaker 3: coaching career and given me great opportunity along my time 225 00:09:55,790 --> 00:09:59,100 Speaker 3: here at Tennis Australia, said to me once, look, good 226 00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: players make good coaches, and I think that's true. So 227 00:10:01,660 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: I was really fortunate to have, throughout my coaching tenure 228 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:09,020 Speaker 3: here at Tennis Australia, access or opportunity or an involvement 229 00:10:09,059 --> 00:10:12,010 Speaker 3: with some of our better players in the sport. Nick 230 00:10:12,070 --> 00:10:15,230 Speaker 3: loved to challenge. He loved to push back. I learnt 231 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:17,370 Speaker 3: a lot. I think probably some of the things that 232 00:10:17,429 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: I thought... I believed at the start of my time 233 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: with Nick and then what I'd learned over that 18 months, 234 00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: and it was only 18 months, but I learned an 235 00:10:26,340 --> 00:10:28,980 Speaker 3: enormous amount. And I think I'd be better for that 236 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:34,460 Speaker 3: experience where I ever to reenter the coaching fray. And 237 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,020 Speaker 3: as I said, yeah, by and large, look back on 238 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,979 Speaker 3: that time really fondly. One thing about Nick that I 239 00:10:39,020 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 3: do recall, I think Nick's probably evolved over time and 240 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,700 Speaker 3: turned into that entertainer and that charismatic kind of showman 241 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,469 Speaker 3: and that alternative style and I think there was an 242 00:10:49,530 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: element of that that was always there in Nick. There 243 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: was always kind of a trickiness in coaching Nick or 244 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: applying some rigor or some discipline to Nick, or Nick 245 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,059 Speaker 3: would love to argue. I can remember talking about language 246 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,540 Speaker 3: with Nick and why it was important, and he would 247 00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:05,890 Speaker 3: take the alternative point of view and argue his case 248 00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:08,710 Speaker 3: really strongly. But one thing I do remember, Nick would 249 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:11,429 Speaker 3: be doing a simple training drill, warming up over at 250 00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:13,550 Speaker 3: the National Tennis Center here, just a few hundred meters 251 00:11:13,570 --> 00:11:15,780 Speaker 3: from where we are today. And he'd be warming up, 252 00:11:15,790 --> 00:11:17,730 Speaker 3: hitting balls up and down the middle with his peers, 253 00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:20,850 Speaker 3: some of the other best players in Australia. And if 254 00:11:20,910 --> 00:11:23,450 Speaker 3: I were down his end, just four or five meters 255 00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:25,850 Speaker 3: behind him at the baseline, and the players missed down 256 00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:27,290 Speaker 3: the other end, this is in the first five or 257 00:11:27,290 --> 00:11:29,260 Speaker 3: 10 minutes of the session, he would say things like, 258 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,060 Speaker 3: you can't afford to miss that. Just quietly under his breath. 259 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:36,059 Speaker 3: It wasn't a sledge at the, it was almost, I 260 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:38,819 Speaker 3: reflect on that as him being, this is the cerebral 261 00:11:38,860 --> 00:11:42,420 Speaker 3: part that I think has gotten lost maybe over the 262 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,650 Speaker 3: last decade or so. this is the cerebral part of 263 00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:46,810 Speaker 3: Nick that was going, Oh, I reckon I know the 264 00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 3: level and that's not the level. And that, that, that 265 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,540 Speaker 3: miss there is going to end up hurting you. So 266 00:11:53,580 --> 00:11:55,540 Speaker 3: things like that, I've always been able to kind of 267 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:59,820 Speaker 3: vividly remember. Um, and then the Wimbledon experience specifically in 2014, gee, 268 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,020 Speaker 3: that was interesting. And Aaron Kellett, who was the physical 269 00:12:03,070 --> 00:12:05,209 Speaker 3: performance coach did a great job with Nick because Nick, 270 00:12:05,530 --> 00:12:07,350 Speaker 3: when he came into the program at 15, Nick was 271 00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:09,830 Speaker 3: flat out doing one pushup. And again, you know, the 272 00:12:09,890 --> 00:12:12,310 Speaker 3: clever part of Nick, I think realized over the ensuing 273 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:15,210 Speaker 3: four or five years, Oh, My physicality is probably not 274 00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:16,770 Speaker 3: going to wash based on where it's at at the moment. 275 00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:19,020 Speaker 3: So Nick and Aaron formed a really great team. And 276 00:12:19,059 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: Nick actually got to work on his physicality. You know, 277 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,500 Speaker 3: it wasn't always perfect. And he pushed back and challenged 278 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:26,859 Speaker 3: Aaron as well. But he knew, I've got a hole 279 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,460 Speaker 3: here in my game. Aaron can help me. Let's get 280 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:32,070 Speaker 3: to work, you know. And there were plenty of ups 281 00:12:32,110 --> 00:12:35,970 Speaker 3: and downs along the way. But I always... respected or 282 00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:38,730 Speaker 3: admired or want to acknowledge that part of Nick. He 283 00:12:38,809 --> 00:12:41,170 Speaker 3: knew what needed to be done, whether he could bring 284 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:44,030 Speaker 3: himself to do it on a daily basis, but he knew. 285 00:12:44,050 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 3: He's not silly, Nick. He was pretty clued onto where 286 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:50,140 Speaker 3: he was strong, perhaps where he needed room for improvement 287 00:12:50,179 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: and who could help him along the way. 288 00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: So Kyrgios' Wimbledon campaign in 2014, he started with a 289 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,780 Speaker 1: win over Stéphane Robert and then saved heaps of match 290 00:12:57,820 --> 00:12:59,900 Speaker 1: points to beat Richard Gasquet, but you were a little 291 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: bit concerned that he might have a letdown after the 292 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:03,900 Speaker 1: Gasquet match when he played Vesely. 293 00:13:03,940 --> 00:13:05,730 Speaker 3: So And I remember saying to him, mate, hey, mate, 294 00:13:06,270 --> 00:13:08,790 Speaker 3: our time might be coming to an end, but I'm 295 00:13:08,850 --> 00:13:11,070 Speaker 3: not going to let this die. I'm not prepared to 296 00:13:11,130 --> 00:13:14,430 Speaker 3: allow you to let go of this golden opportunity. Because 297 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:17,470 Speaker 3: it was classic Nick. It was like Nick against Gasquet 298 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:21,170 Speaker 3: in round two, underdog against one of the great players, 299 00:13:21,230 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: one of the elite players. That's his environment. Like on 300 00:13:24,050 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 3: show court to it, look at what I can do. 301 00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 3: Look at what I can bring to this moment. Then 302 00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: it was Vesely, who was a really, really good player. 303 00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:32,530 Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, really accomplished player. But then it's 304 00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:34,670 Speaker 3: sort of like, oh, this is just a bit more ho-hum. 305 00:13:34,929 --> 00:13:37,569 Speaker 3: This is now round three at Wimbledon against someone 46 306 00:13:37,570 --> 00:13:39,870 Speaker 3: in the world. I'm just making this up. 46 in 307 00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:41,510 Speaker 3: the world. Oh, I've actually just got to go and 308 00:13:41,530 --> 00:13:43,950 Speaker 3: win this match to then get through to round four 309 00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:46,650 Speaker 3: and have the Rafa opportunity again. So round three was 310 00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:49,970 Speaker 3: the challenge. Rafa and Gasquet weren't the challenge. And I'm 311 00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:51,770 Speaker 3: sort of saying to Nick, like, hey, mate, I'm sorry, 312 00:13:51,809 --> 00:13:55,110 Speaker 3: but I'm just not prepared to allow you to waste 313 00:13:55,330 --> 00:13:58,429 Speaker 3: this incredible opportunity. I wouldn't be doing the right thing 314 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 3: by you. So And we had a bit of a 315 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,740 Speaker 3: robust conversation. And by no means am I the reason 316 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,179 Speaker 3: that he won that match. But there's a bit of 317 00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:07,530 Speaker 3: an insight into some of those conversations. And he came 318 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:10,150 Speaker 3: out actually after that rain delay and he was firing 319 00:14:10,190 --> 00:14:12,890 Speaker 3: on all cylinders. Yeah, he was. It was a different 320 00:14:12,950 --> 00:14:14,870 Speaker 3: Nick than we saw in the hour and a quarter 321 00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:17,729 Speaker 3: of tennis before the rain delay. And it ended up 322 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:20,710 Speaker 3: being an incredible note for Nick and I to finish on. Obviously, 323 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:24,500 Speaker 3: the match over Rafa, the win over Rafa was something 324 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: I'll never forget and speaks to. I don't have that 325 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: in me. I don't know how you can walk onto 326 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,540 Speaker 3: that court for the first time. You've never walked on 327 00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 3: there before. And I've said this before, and not think 328 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,740 Speaker 3: that you're going to be competitive. No, no, no, no. 329 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: You're thinking that you're going to dominate this guy, and 330 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: you've got no shadow of doubt in your mind. It's like, 331 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 3: watch me go. Are you coming with me? I remember 332 00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: I came in from a run that morning, and we 333 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: were kind of sharing an apartment or a townhouse, and 334 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: he said to me, Simon, I'll pop around the corner. 335 00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 3: I said, Sal, good morning, Nick. I'll pop around the corner. 336 00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:56,500 Speaker 3: He said, Simon, Simon, come back, come back. I said, oh, what? 337 00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:59,790 Speaker 3: What's going on, Nick? He said, I'm versing your boy today. 338 00:14:59,930 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: I'm versing your boy. Because he knew I loved Rafa. 339 00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: And I'd talk to Nick all the time about Rafa's stance. 340 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,660 Speaker 3: That's me. Rafa's my guy. I'm a Rafa guy. Standards, 341 00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:12,220 Speaker 3: day in, day out, discipline, carry your own bag, do 342 00:15:12,260 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 3: it the right way. I love everything that Rafa stands for. 343 00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:17,450 Speaker 3: And Nick kind of knew that. And I said, no, no, no, Nick. 344 00:15:17,610 --> 00:15:20,150 Speaker 3: You're my boy. Again, so that's just him just needling 345 00:15:20,170 --> 00:15:22,570 Speaker 3: a little bit. But it was almost like he was 346 00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:24,690 Speaker 3: sort of saying to me, I've got something in store 347 00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:27,730 Speaker 3: for you today. And sure enough, he did. It was 348 00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:30,130 Speaker 3: a remarkable performance. And I reckon he wasn't far away 349 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:32,730 Speaker 3: from beating Ray Onitch in the quarterfinals either, from memory. 350 00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: Sounds like he prepared you for that match against Rafa. 351 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,220 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Well, I came back. It's actually funny you 352 00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: should say that because there was a bunch of us 353 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,580 Speaker 3: over there. There were probably four or five of us 354 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,820 Speaker 3: the night before the match. I remember Todd Larkham, who'd 355 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 3: had such a big involvement with Nick throughout his developmental 356 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:51,650 Speaker 3: phase at Canberra, one of the best coaches I've ever 357 00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:53,730 Speaker 3: had anything to do with in our Tennis Australia Pathway. 358 00:15:54,270 --> 00:15:55,990 Speaker 3: Marker Reid, who's my boss today, who was the head 359 00:15:56,010 --> 00:15:58,870 Speaker 3: of innovation, who was leading up our SSSM team back then, 360 00:15:58,890 --> 00:16:00,740 Speaker 3: so our sports science and sports medicine team. He was 361 00:16:00,770 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: over at Wimbledon. And Shannon Nettle, who's again a good 362 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,740 Speaker 3: mate of mine today, Stinger, and one of the best 363 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: coaches I think we've ever produced in Australia. I rate 364 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:12,140 Speaker 3: Stinger so highly. And we're going through the footage. They 365 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: said to me, how much footage have you watched on Rafa? 366 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,990 Speaker 3: And I would have watched 15 sets by this point 367 00:16:16,110 --> 00:16:18,990 Speaker 3: over the preceding 36 days. Anyway, we're going through it 368 00:16:19,050 --> 00:16:20,690 Speaker 3: and the sort of four of us are agonizing over 369 00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:22,130 Speaker 3: it and I'm jotting down my notes in my book 370 00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: and It's funny you should say that, Viv. I came 371 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: up to Nick before the match. We had the routine, 372 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:28,490 Speaker 3: you know, warm up and then he'd go and have 373 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,450 Speaker 3: a shower or whatever, and then I'd go to my notebook, right? 374 00:16:30,490 --> 00:16:31,690 Speaker 3: And then we're about to have a bit of a chat. 375 00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:33,970 Speaker 3: And it was always very earnest for me, very serious, very, 376 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:35,650 Speaker 3: you don't want to get that wrong. That's your moment 377 00:16:35,690 --> 00:16:38,610 Speaker 3: as a coach. You've got a responsibility, right? So I 378 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:41,940 Speaker 3: went through the report and I wasn't quite sure just 379 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:43,990 Speaker 3: how well I was connecting or where his mind was at. 380 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: So I said, Nick, just checking in, mate. You got 381 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,150 Speaker 3: all that? Like, you know, serve, return. from the back 382 00:16:49,170 --> 00:16:50,770 Speaker 3: of the court, this is the plan A, this is 383 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:52,470 Speaker 3: plan B, keep this up your sleeve, this is what 384 00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:55,190 Speaker 3: I'm expecting. He's at his most dangerous when he's dealing, 385 00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:56,970 Speaker 3: when he's operating in this way, so we can't let 386 00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:59,910 Speaker 3: that happen under any circumstances. You're good? You're clear with that? 387 00:16:59,930 --> 00:17:02,490 Speaker 3: Try to keep it simple. Yeah, Simon, yeah, yeah, I'm good, mate. 388 00:17:02,510 --> 00:17:04,450 Speaker 3: I got it. Serve big, play big. I got it. 389 00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:08,190 Speaker 3: I was like, okay, beauty, I'm pleased I've watched that 390 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:10,540 Speaker 3: 15 hours of 15 sets of footage and consulted the 391 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,740 Speaker 3: other experts in the room. That was him saying, just 392 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,660 Speaker 3: watch me shine. Serve big, play big, back myself, biggest 393 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,139 Speaker 3: stage in world tennis. I'm going to put in something special. 394 00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:21,970 Speaker 3: So that's a really good prompt to reflect on that story. 395 00:17:22,190 --> 00:17:23,090 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 396 00:17:23,130 --> 00:17:23,250 Speaker 3: Yeah. 397 00:17:23,970 --> 00:17:26,129 Speaker 1: I also remember, I think my undying memory of that 398 00:17:26,190 --> 00:17:28,929 Speaker 1: match was that between the legs when he hit and 399 00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: when you watch, I don't know what point of the 400 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: match it was, but like he almost half follied something 401 00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: between his legs. And the commentator, whoever it was, has 402 00:17:36,340 --> 00:17:40,109 Speaker 1: just gone... Like they were just staggered by what they 403 00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:41,850 Speaker 1: saw and the way he celebrated. And you were like, yeah, 404 00:17:41,869 --> 00:17:43,490 Speaker 1: it was quite a– as you said, when he walks 405 00:17:43,550 --> 00:17:45,390 Speaker 1: onto the court, how do you come on and own 406 00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:47,850 Speaker 1: the place when you've– the biggest court in tennis and 407 00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:49,830 Speaker 1: you've ever been there. That was almost that moment. 408 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:52,110 Speaker 3: I'm just in awe of that. I don't have that 409 00:17:52,170 --> 00:17:54,260 Speaker 3: in me. Yeah. 410 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:54,630 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. 411 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: I don't know how you instill that in someone. I'm 412 00:17:58,619 --> 00:18:01,790 Speaker 3: just in awe of that moment. capability that nick has 413 00:18:01,850 --> 00:18:04,010 Speaker 3: to shine in that moment and to produce his best 414 00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:06,149 Speaker 3: tennis and to have not one shadow of doubt that 415 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:09,590 Speaker 3: he's going to dominate that environment um you guys are 416 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:12,070 Speaker 3: kind of really prompting me to reflect on these memories 417 00:18:12,109 --> 00:18:14,730 Speaker 3: that i wasn't sure that i still had because when 418 00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:17,470 Speaker 3: that shot happened that's an example of the type of 419 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:19,070 Speaker 3: stuff that aaron and i would have been trying to 420 00:18:19,109 --> 00:18:22,210 Speaker 3: say we don't want that stuff don't do it yeah 421 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,990 Speaker 3: so i remember i was kind of leaning over the 422 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: hoardings you know and holding on like this and aaron's 423 00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:29,100 Speaker 3: kind of i can't remember if he's half jumped out 424 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 3: of his seat And I'm trying not to kind of 425 00:18:31,420 --> 00:18:33,540 Speaker 3: go bananas myself. It's obviously a hell of a shot, 426 00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 3: but I'm trying to play the poker face, right? And 427 00:18:35,220 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: I'm just kind of hanging on to the hoardings going, mate, 428 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,409 Speaker 3: I'm not moving. I'm not applauding for that. So the 429 00:18:39,470 --> 00:18:41,970 Speaker 3: rest of the jokers in the stand. And you're trying 430 00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:45,610 Speaker 3: to send the coaching. Exactly. So I suspect that was, well, 431 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:48,070 Speaker 3: time would say that I've fought a losing battle there 432 00:18:48,109 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 3: because there's been more and more of that over time. But, hey, 433 00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 3: that's what I believed and that's what I wanted to 434 00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 3: stand for as a coach. And that's what he wanted 435 00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 3: to stand for as an athlete. And he's the one 436 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:58,169 Speaker 3: out there playing. So there you go. 437 00:18:59,070 --> 00:19:01,970 Speaker 1: Interestingly, the next player you worked with was Sam Stozer, 438 00:19:02,290 --> 00:19:05,209 Speaker 1: polar opposite, much more reserved and inward. 439 00:19:05,390 --> 00:19:06,970 Speaker 3: Yeah, different phase of her career. 440 00:19:07,109 --> 00:19:08,619 Speaker 1: Different phase in her career in that she was already 441 00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: a Grand Slam champion, obviously coaching a top woman versus 442 00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: a top man. What was that shift like to go 443 00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:16,300 Speaker 1: from working with Nick to Sam? 444 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:21,129 Speaker 3: A big shift, yeah. And I reckon I made some 445 00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:24,790 Speaker 3: mistakes along the way, but happy to share any of those. 446 00:19:24,869 --> 00:19:27,690 Speaker 3: Before I'd do that, I would just... kind of tip 447 00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 3: my cap and marvel at what a professional, what a 448 00:19:30,460 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: work ethic, what a love of the game, what a 449 00:19:33,740 --> 00:19:37,979 Speaker 3: mentally tough human being before you even get to tennis player. Because, 450 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,270 Speaker 3: you know, as Federer said recently at the kind of 451 00:19:42,290 --> 00:19:45,409 Speaker 3: commencement speech, you know, that 54% of his points are 452 00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:47,109 Speaker 3: the greatest of all time or one of the greatest 453 00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:50,820 Speaker 3: of all time. And Sam had plenty of heartbreaking moments, 454 00:19:50,859 --> 00:19:53,139 Speaker 3: particularly here in Australia, you know, where that was a 455 00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:56,379 Speaker 3: really challenging environment for her over a long period of 456 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,389 Speaker 3: time to handle being the hometown favourite and all of 457 00:19:59,430 --> 00:20:01,830 Speaker 3: that expectation and pressure kind of heaped on her shoulders. 458 00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 3: And she'd just keep fronting up. Like, you know, Sam is, um, 459 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,980 Speaker 3: I talk about mental toughness because it's one thing to 460 00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:13,550 Speaker 3: kind of shy away from that or try to avoid, 461 00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:16,850 Speaker 3: or it's another thing altogether to kind of know it's coming, 462 00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:19,629 Speaker 3: know what you've got to deal with, um, know how 463 00:20:19,690 --> 00:20:22,189 Speaker 3: uncomfortable maybe it might make you in certain circumstances and 464 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:24,709 Speaker 3: to keep showing up. I just kind of marvel at 465 00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:27,870 Speaker 3: Sam's mental toughness. And I learned a lot from her 466 00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: because where I was coming from, um, and where Sam 467 00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:36,230 Speaker 3: were coming, like Sam I think Sam's attention to detail, professionalism, 468 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:39,980 Speaker 3: attention to the one percenters, I found those quite remarkable. 469 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: But in Sam's mind, she didn't want any praise for that. 470 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,100 Speaker 3: That's just business as usual. She's just like, no, no, no. 471 00:20:46,619 --> 00:20:49,350 Speaker 3: I just want to know about the next opponent. Top 472 00:20:49,410 --> 00:20:52,609 Speaker 3: three ways to break through them. That's all. But I 473 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:57,070 Speaker 3: found Sam an icon of the sport. an incredible credit 474 00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:59,810 Speaker 3: to herself, to her family. I mean, what can I 475 00:20:59,830 --> 00:21:01,909 Speaker 3: say that hasn't already been said about Sam? And I 476 00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 3: learned a lot along that journey as well. 477 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: You returned to New Zealand and had a stint as 478 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: high performance director. 479 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 480 00:21:08,859 --> 00:21:11,220 Speaker 2: Tell us about tennis in New Zealand today. 481 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,270 Speaker 3: Well, that was kind of a really, I was really 482 00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:17,909 Speaker 3: grateful for the time in New Zealand. I had a, 483 00:21:19,030 --> 00:21:22,429 Speaker 3: and I was really grateful for for what led me 484 00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:24,310 Speaker 3: to this point. As it turns out, I might not 485 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:26,369 Speaker 3: have realized it at the time, I had a tough 486 00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:29,330 Speaker 3: marriage breakup here in Australia. We had a restructure at 487 00:21:29,369 --> 00:21:32,730 Speaker 3: Tennis Australia and I could have reapplied for a coaching position. 488 00:21:32,770 --> 00:21:34,270 Speaker 3: No guarantee I was going to win it, but I 489 00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:36,770 Speaker 3: chose not to. So there was a kind of a 490 00:21:36,830 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 3: redundancy involved there. And I moved back home. Now, if 491 00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: you talk to, I don't know, if you talk to 492 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,450 Speaker 3: a GP, they'll probably say to you, hey, Some of 493 00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:50,470 Speaker 3: the more stressful things that can happen in your life, 494 00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:56,150 Speaker 3: relationship breakup, tick. Moving house, tick. And lost a job, tick. 495 00:21:57,010 --> 00:21:59,189 Speaker 3: So that was a really challenging period for me. And 496 00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 3: it wasn't until probably a couple of years later that 497 00:22:01,220 --> 00:22:04,540 Speaker 3: I was able to maybe sit back, take stock and 498 00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:07,060 Speaker 3: see it for what it was. I perhaps wasn't processing 499 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:09,420 Speaker 3: that period at the time as well as I might 500 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,270 Speaker 3: have been. But gee, I was grateful for the time 501 00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:15,530 Speaker 3: back in New Zealand. It was a small team. It 502 00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:19,110 Speaker 3: was on a shoestring budget. We were really well led 503 00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:23,050 Speaker 3: by Julie Patterson, who was the CEO, who I think 504 00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:26,070 Speaker 3: you guys would have had experiences like this throughout your 505 00:22:26,109 --> 00:22:29,210 Speaker 3: professional journey. We all would have where you may not 506 00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:31,690 Speaker 3: gel with someone early days, but by the time I 507 00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 3: left and Anna, who's now the mother of our three kids, 508 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 3: was pregnant with our firstborn. She was over in New 509 00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:40,850 Speaker 3: Zealand for a period of time. But she'd always been 510 00:22:40,910 --> 00:22:43,830 Speaker 3: really clear, if and when we're lucky enough to have 511 00:22:43,890 --> 00:22:46,150 Speaker 3: a family together, I want to do that back in Geelong. 512 00:22:46,270 --> 00:22:48,669 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you talk about the success of New 513 00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:51,150 Speaker 2: Zealand players because there kind of has been this more 514 00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 2: successful period with Daniel and Venus at Tokyo, Aaron Routliff 515 00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 2: in doubles and Lulu Sun. 516 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,100 Speaker 3: Yeah. 517 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 2: How do you think that resonates back in New Zealand? 518 00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:02,460 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think it's been huge news. I reckon 519 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,689 Speaker 3: the biggest news since the Chris Lewis 1983, I think 520 00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:09,050 Speaker 3: it was 83, the reference that I made earlier, Was 521 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:13,150 Speaker 3: Lulu and this run to the fourth round of Wimbledon 522 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,700 Speaker 3: over the last couple of months. So it's been front 523 00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:20,220 Speaker 3: page news on the New Zealand Herald back there. It's 524 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,379 Speaker 3: been huge. So I think tennis hasn't been in the 525 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,540 Speaker 3: headlights in that way, I don't reckon, since 1983. So 526 00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:29,390 Speaker 3: even though Lulu's a really recent addition, you know, we've 527 00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:32,470 Speaker 3: seen that in Australia. We've seen the outpouring of love 528 00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:35,899 Speaker 3: and admiration and support for Isla and Dasher and some 529 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,770 Speaker 3: of these players that didn't always call Australia home, but 530 00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:41,070 Speaker 3: certainly do so now and will forever and a day. 531 00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:43,250 Speaker 3: And I think it's the same in New Zealand. And 532 00:23:43,369 --> 00:23:45,410 Speaker 3: just so exciting for Julie and the team at Tennis 533 00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:47,670 Speaker 3: New Zealand who still, Julie still heads up the team 534 00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:50,709 Speaker 3: there at Tennis New Zealand. I'm really hoping that that 535 00:23:50,730 --> 00:23:53,750 Speaker 3: can inspire a generation of youngsters like we've seen here 536 00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:56,730 Speaker 3: with Ash and with Leighton and with Sam and with 537 00:23:56,790 --> 00:23:59,980 Speaker 3: all of our, and now it's Alex and all of 538 00:24:00,020 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: our great champions in Australian tennis. I think, you know, 539 00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:04,580 Speaker 3: at a really, and I don't know the data and 540 00:24:04,619 --> 00:24:07,740 Speaker 3: behind this, At a really simple level, you know, I 541 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 3: think you want to hold the trophy up like those 542 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: great champions. So I'm really hoping that can be the 543 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,619 Speaker 3: catalyst that has tennis more on the map over the 544 00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:16,700 Speaker 3: next couple of decades in New Zealand than it has been. 545 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: I actually heard an interview. They syndicated an interview on SENZ, 546 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: so SEN New Zealand, and they got Belinda Caldwell. 547 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:24,369 Speaker 2: Yep. 548 00:24:24,740 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: On the Australian Open semifinals to talk about Lulu Sun 549 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:30,980 Speaker 1: and it was this growing story. It was really cool. 550 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,859 Speaker 1: And even to remember that she'd made the semifinals here. 551 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: So there has been actually a lineage of good results 552 00:24:37,380 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: for New Zealand. I guess it's just a little bit spaced. Yeah. 553 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,250 Speaker 3: And I think, I don't reckon there's any reason why 554 00:24:42,290 --> 00:24:44,609 Speaker 3: they can't overcome some of these challenges. Another one is 555 00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:46,890 Speaker 3: it's a wet country in winter. 556 00:24:46,910 --> 00:24:47,430 Speaker 1: New Zealand. 557 00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:50,250 Speaker 3: Like it's seriously wet. You know, people ask me how 558 00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:53,140 Speaker 3: Melbourne compares. I reckon Melbourne, I don't, know the science 559 00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 3: on this. I reckon Melbourne feels colder to me, especially 560 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:58,620 Speaker 3: over the last few weeks. It's been pretty bitterly cold. 561 00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:01,140 Speaker 3: It's turned this week, which is fantastic. But I think 562 00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 3: New Zealand gets so much more rain and you can 563 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,980 Speaker 3: overcome that, but you've got to have the indoor facilities 564 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 3: and you've got to have your youngsters that can kind 565 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 3: of access the courts at the right time and can 566 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 3: get the support from their schooling. And you need the 567 00:25:11,540 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 3: tennis ecosystem. And my view is on Kiwi Sport, and 568 00:25:15,340 --> 00:25:18,180 Speaker 3: they've always done it well. They had a terrific Olympic 569 00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:20,380 Speaker 3: Games just passed again in Paris. They punched well above 570 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,619 Speaker 3: their weight. they do it through coming together. And I 571 00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:26,260 Speaker 3: don't think we've done that tremendously well in tennis in 572 00:25:26,300 --> 00:25:28,659 Speaker 3: New Zealand over the last two, three, maybe four decades. 573 00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:31,110 Speaker 3: So that's an opportunity that lies in wait, I reckon. 574 00:25:31,910 --> 00:25:34,590 Speaker 1: Your focus now is data analysis. And, um, I know 575 00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:36,710 Speaker 1: you said before that's something you're very passionate about and 576 00:25:36,730 --> 00:25:39,690 Speaker 1: you strongly believe in that as part of your coaching philosophy. 577 00:25:39,730 --> 00:25:42,020 Speaker 1: So I just wonder where that, why that side of 578 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,300 Speaker 1: the game appeals to you and how that kind of 579 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: came to be in your coaching philosophy. 580 00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:48,189 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think probably, um, The best way I would 581 00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:50,330 Speaker 3: try to answer that was probably harking back to what 582 00:25:50,369 --> 00:25:51,990 Speaker 3: I touched on with my time with Nick in terms 583 00:25:52,030 --> 00:25:54,429 Speaker 3: of the notes. And he said, yeah, yeah, I've got it. 584 00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:56,050 Speaker 3: So I've done seven and a half hours of homework 585 00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:57,690 Speaker 3: for this moment. And Nick's gone, yeah, I've got it. 586 00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 3: So I'm a big play big. I've got it. Just 587 00:25:59,380 --> 00:26:01,820 Speaker 3: watch me go to work. But I think that responsibility 588 00:26:01,859 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 3: of a coach to be as informed as you can 589 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:11,020 Speaker 3: possibly be, as rigorous and as applied and as specific 590 00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 3: as you can in your analysis of the next opponent, 591 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,940 Speaker 3: I think that's a really heavy responsibility. And I've heard 592 00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:18,420 Speaker 3: Dave Taylor, who's a coach that I admire so much, 593 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:22,980 Speaker 3: talk about the responsibility and the weight of responsibility that 594 00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 3: a coach has in their hands. And I think that's 595 00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: always something that weighed really heavily on me. So a 596 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,610 Speaker 3: big part of that is the work that we do 597 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,730 Speaker 3: now in terms of what can we understand that can 598 00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:36,470 Speaker 3: help our Australian players and coaches? Is that trends of 599 00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:39,730 Speaker 3: the game itself over time? Is that how player A 600 00:26:40,109 --> 00:26:43,940 Speaker 3: has changed from 2022 to 2024 so that Our Aussies, 601 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,340 Speaker 3: when they come up against them, can be prepared for 602 00:26:46,380 --> 00:26:48,419 Speaker 3: those changes. No, no, no, they're not the same player 603 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 3: that they were in 2022. Let me show you how 604 00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:53,570 Speaker 3: they've changed over time. And I think some of the, 605 00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:57,629 Speaker 3: talk about work ethic, you know, some of the traveling 606 00:26:57,710 --> 00:27:00,690 Speaker 3: and the rigor that's involved in coaching is really demanding, 607 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,710 Speaker 3: particularly living down here in Australia, so far from the 608 00:27:03,770 --> 00:27:07,300 Speaker 3: tennis hubs around the world, right? As the tennis kind 609 00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:10,370 Speaker 3: of calendar follows the sun everywhere. But the work ethic 610 00:27:10,410 --> 00:27:12,270 Speaker 3: of this team I'm involved in now, to be honest, 611 00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:15,010 Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like it, Viv and Matt. And 612 00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:17,670 Speaker 3: I see you in here, Viv, first thing in the morning. 613 00:27:18,460 --> 00:27:20,619 Speaker 3: But I'm out of here at kind of early in 614 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 3: the afternoon or early in the evening. And this team 615 00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 3: I'm working in, Olivia and Shataya, Dr. Olivia Kahn and Dr. 616 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 3: Shataya Gonku and Levi Huddleston, these guys are working so 617 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,620 Speaker 3: hard in the back end to kind of power these insights. 618 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: And Levi and Shataya engineering the systems. And Liv's working 619 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,300 Speaker 3: her brilliance to help me tell the stories of how 620 00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 3: players are maybe evolving. So that's the part that I 621 00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: think ties in with kind of the world that I've 622 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,649 Speaker 3: known is, hey, guys, you guys can do some brilliant work. 623 00:27:48,550 --> 00:27:50,169 Speaker 3: In a way, I think part of the challenges, and 624 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:52,090 Speaker 3: I was still having this conversation just before I came 625 00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:54,350 Speaker 3: in here with Liv, hey, Liv, we could do a 626 00:27:54,369 --> 00:27:58,470 Speaker 3: 15-page kind of real deep dive on Taylor Preston, for example, 627 00:27:58,490 --> 00:28:00,420 Speaker 3: is one of the Aussies that we're really supporting heavily 628 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: at the moment. But we've still got to be able 629 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,859 Speaker 3: to make it simple enough for it to resonate with 630 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,450 Speaker 3: the coach, like, We've all only got, and Brad's a 631 00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:11,170 Speaker 3: really clever guy, Brad, but we've all only got so 632 00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:14,670 Speaker 3: much capacity to absorb information. So how can we take 633 00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:18,220 Speaker 3: the wonderful amount of insight that Liv's able to generate 634 00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 3: and craft and curate and distill it down so that 635 00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 3: Brad's got three, maybe four, really easily understood, clear takeaway. Okay, 636 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,340 Speaker 3: I need to get to work with Tay here, here, here, 637 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: and here. And maybe it's just two things for the 638 00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:34,100 Speaker 3: next three months and these other two can sit on 639 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: the backburner But in 12 months from now, we need 640 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,180 Speaker 3: to see improvement across these four areas. So that's still 641 00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:43,100 Speaker 3: part of the challenge is simplifying all of the amazing 642 00:28:43,140 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: insight that these guys are capable of crafting. 643 00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Well, Simon, thanks so much for being really generous with 644 00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:53,540 Speaker 1: your time. And I'm glad we were able to stir 645 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: some memories in your mind and get you to reflect 646 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 1: on that. That was really amazing talking to you. 647 00:28:57,020 --> 00:29:00,020 Speaker 3: It's been a lovely opportunity for me to reflect on 648 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,300 Speaker 3: all of these experiences. So thanks for the invitation, Viv 649 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,340 Speaker 3: and Matt. I really appreciate it. 650 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,820 Speaker 2: Well, wasn't that a fascinating chat with Simon and all 651 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,180 Speaker 2: of his experiences in tennis? 652 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,380 Speaker 1: Yeah, I often think when we have our sit-down guests 653 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,060 Speaker 1: that we could just talk to them for hours longer, 654 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:16,460 Speaker 1: but I guess there's so much time in the day 655 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: you've got, isn't there? 656 00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:19,790 Speaker 2: Yeah, we would love to keep talking all day long, 657 00:29:19,870 --> 00:29:21,950 Speaker 2: but we'll be back next week when we talk to 658 00:29:22,130 --> 00:29:25,290 Speaker 2: John Fitzgerald on Davis Cup and Australian tennis. 659 00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:26,950 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, you can join John and the 660 00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:29,070 Speaker 1: team this Thursday on the AO Show Weekly. 661 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,980 Speaker 2: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes. 662 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:35,330 Speaker 2: And as always, please remember to subscribe, rate and review. 663 00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:37,730 Speaker 1: Oh, and while we've got you here, feel free to 664 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:39,370 Speaker 1: reach out to us if you've got any ideas for 665 00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:40,690 Speaker 1: who you'd like to talk to. us to sit down 666 00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:42,490 Speaker 1: with and we'll see if we can make it happen. 667 00:29:42,670 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: We'll see you next week, Viv. 668 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:44,420 Speaker 2: Look forward to it, Matt.