1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: I'm Mattroloca, writer for oz open dot com and I'm. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: Viv Christie, Managing editor of Australian Tennis magazine. And Matt, 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: why do we sit down this week with Simon Ray? 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: Well, we've always wanted to sit down with Simon Ray. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: I think he's a long term colleague of ours who's 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: arrived in Australia via New Zealand, and so we had 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: a really wide ranging chat about how he discovered the 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: game in New Zealand, the kinds of players he went 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: on to work with, including Nick Kirios and Sam Stoza, 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: and now that he's moved into the data analysis space. 12 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: So it was Yeah, it was fascinating to pick his 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: brain on all of these things. 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: This is actually one of my favorite interviews that we've 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: done so far for the sit Down. Simon was so 16 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: candid and insightful and his passion for the sport really 17 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: shone through. 18 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: Simon Ray, thank you very much for joining us in 19 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: the studio today. 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 3: Hi Matt, Hi Viv, thanks for having me. Good to 21 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 3: be here. 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Why don't we start at the beginning and how you 23 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: came to play tennis in a country like New Zealand, 24 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: which may be compared to Australia, doesn't have quite the 25 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: same tennis tradition or visibility at the top. 26 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 3: No, I think that's really fair. 27 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been a while since I explored that question 28 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 4: or thought about that question. I grew up on the 29 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 4: north shore of Auckland back in New Zealand, as you describe, 30 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 4: and really stumbled across tennis, almost quite literally. So Dad 31 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 4: used to walk the dog near the lake. There's a 32 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 4: natural freshwater lake, a volcanic lake near where we live 33 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 4: on the north shore of Auckland, and the dog would 34 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 4: really enjoy being exercised near that lake and the tennis 35 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 4: courts border the lake Lake Poopuck on the north shore 36 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 4: of Auckland near Milford and Takapuna, and the dog would 37 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 4: be hunting for tennis balls and finding plenty that had 38 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 4: gone over the fence. And one day an elderly gentleman 39 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 4: beckoned me down to the court when I was there 40 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 4: with my dog. I think maybe I'd had a rack 41 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 4: in my hand and I was hitting on the wall, 42 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 4: the volleyboard, the volleyboard wall. 43 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: You know, which never misses. 44 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 4: And Joe o' rourke, this great Catholic man from the 45 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 4: Milford Tennis Club on the north shore of Auckland, said 46 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 4: to me, come on down, Come on down, and he 47 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 4: went on, I must have been I don't know, seven 48 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 4: or eight. And he went on to hit with me 49 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 4: before school most mornings for the next. 50 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 3: Three or four years. 51 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 4: And he wasn't a coach as we know a coach, 52 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 4: but he was a volunteer at the club. He was 53 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 4: fixing up the fence, he was fixing the lights when 54 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 4: they were out of action. He was teaching me life lessons. 55 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 4: He was a World War Two veteran. I was a 56 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 4: poor bear at his funeral and he was the most 57 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 4: remarkable man. And so that was my introduction to tennis. 58 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 4: He literally, out of the goodness of his heart, introduced 59 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 4: me to the sport. Became a part of our family, 60 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 4: or I became a part of his. And so it 61 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 4: was really that fateful kind of path that led me 62 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 4: to the sport of tennis. 63 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: What was it that made you stick with tennis or 64 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: that you loved about it? 65 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, there was a part of me that really 66 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: enjoyed and this is probably two parts or two sides 67 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 4: of this coin. I think later on in life, and 68 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 4: that's perhaps this is me thinking about the grass being greener. 69 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 4: There's a part of me that wishes I wonder if 70 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 4: I'd explored a team sport for a little longer, and 71 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 4: the appeal of the team sport, but I think being 72 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 4: young and ambitious and driven, I think what I I 73 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 4: really would have enjoyed was that hard work, which is 74 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 4: something that I've tried to pride myself on over the 75 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 4: journey as a solid enough work ethic, the reward for 76 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 4: effort there. So if you wake up in the morning 77 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: and get to work, whether it's on the volleyball or 78 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 4: with Joe O'Rourke, who was a self taught man, or 79 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 4: with my first formal coach at the Milford Tennis Club, 80 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 4: and the harder you work, the lucky you tend to 81 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: get and the more doors open for you. And so 82 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 4: I think that was probably one of the things, was 83 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 4: the competitor in me was growing and evolving and I 84 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 4: was seeing opportunity out of my hard work. And that's 85 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 4: always a nice feeling, I think anytime for all of 86 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 4: us when we get reward for effort. So it was 87 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: probably that. Right back at it now, I'm talking a 88 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 4: little bit older, probably eleven twelve thirteen, as I got 89 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 4: into the competitive pathway that existed in tennis in New Zealand. 90 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: And your competitive pathway took you to college, I think, yeah, 91 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: University of Tennessee, Yeah, and then also the New Zealand 92 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: Davis Cup team. 93 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 94 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 4: So you mentioned Matt and I think it's a good segue, 95 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 4: and you mentioned probably part of the limited lineage that 96 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 4: tennis in New Zealand has experience compared to the incredible 97 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 4: lineage of tennis in this country in Australia, and I 98 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 4: think that's really fair. But one of the childhood heroes 99 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: of all of us down in New Zealand was Chris Lewis, 100 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: who made that Wimbledon final in nineteen eighty three. I 101 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 4: think it was against John McEnroe, and that was a 102 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: moment that all New Zealand has tended to remember. Chris 103 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 4: ended up and his brother Mark, who coached Michael Stick 104 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 4: who was the German Wimbledon champion. So there was a 105 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 4: bit of a coaching royalty between Chris and Mark there 106 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 4: in New Zealand, and both of those two ended up 107 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,119 Speaker 4: coaching me at seventeen eighteen, and I was a handy 108 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 4: junior in New Zealand. You know, I was probably final 109 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 4: of twelves Nationals and semi final of fourteen's Nationals. But 110 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: I was never really the best junior in the country 111 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 4: until I had started to have a little bit more 112 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 4: success really by virtue of the fact that I came 113 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 4: under Chris and Mark's umbrella for a couple of years there. 114 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 4: At seventeen eighteen, I was finishing my time at Auckland 115 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 4: Grammar School at the same time, and that was seventeen 116 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 4: eighteen was when I first broke through to become the 117 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 4: national champion, if you like. 118 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: In the eighteen took me. 119 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 4: I was around the mark, but it took me until 120 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 4: seventeen probably to win my first national title. And off 121 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 4: the back of that at eighteen, look, I thought I 122 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 4: was ready and good enough to go and play professionally. 123 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 4: And I was driven and hungry and wanted to chase 124 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 4: the dream like every seventeen or eighteen year old did. 125 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 4: But you know, Mum and Dad probably had the good 126 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 4: counsel and the good awareness A to know they couldn't 127 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 4: afford it, and b perhaps to see some of the 128 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 4: things that I couldn't see and go, oh, I'm not 129 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 4: sure in their own minds. Maybe I'm not sure if 130 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 4: they thought that'd be a question for I'd have to 131 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 4: ask them today. But really, the only path for me 132 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 4: financially where we were at was the US college system 133 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 4: and the University of Tennessee. And Chris Marney, who was 134 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 4: responsible for giving giving me my first coaching job here 135 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 4: at Tennis Australia, was my assistant coach there in Knoxville 136 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 4: at the University of Tennessee. So sometimes what's that saying, 137 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 4: it's not what you know, it too, you know, And 138 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 4: that's certainly been something that's been true for me in 139 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 4: my journey in tennis over the two or three decades. 140 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: I've been lucky enough to be in the sport. 141 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: And then you, of course went on to have a 142 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: coaching career. How did that coaching career come about? 143 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I mentioned Chris really to this day very 144 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 4: indebted to Chris. So, you know, I mentioned my playing 145 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 4: ambitions and I probably had one shot at that and 146 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 4: graduated from the University of Tennessee. I finished my playing 147 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 4: eligibility in two thousand and four, but I hadn't finished 148 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 4: my ironically enough journalism degree at that point. 149 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: In time. 150 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 4: It did go back and finish that in two thousand 151 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 4: and six, and was really fortunate that the university, because 152 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: it's in their interest they want to graduate their student athletes, 153 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 4: they would pay for you to come back and do that. 154 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 4: So look, long story short, we had a really disappointing 155 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 4: Davis Cup lost there to Pakistan. I think in two 156 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 4: thousand and four, I had a base in America at 157 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 4: the time. I had an American girlfriend at the time, 158 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 4: and I wasn't as resilient. In hindsight, I wasn't as 159 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 4: resilient as I would hope that my kids would be 160 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 4: in the same situation. I probably thought, oh, look this 161 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 4: is getting a bit hard. I'm running low on funds. 162 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 4: I've got an American girlfriend back here who had this 163 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 4: really disappointing diabolical park that lost to Pakistan. We're down 164 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 4: to group two in Asia Oshi only for the first 165 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 4: time ever. It went a bit pear shaped and the 166 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 4: team environment. We lost three too, and I was the 167 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 4: loser of the three ties and the five match rubber 168 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 4: if you like. It wasn't a great sequence of events, 169 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 4: if you like. And at that point in time, I thought, look, 170 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 4: I'm never going to play again. And it was only 171 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 4: as a byproduct of finishing your studies you were required 172 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 4: to come and hit some balls with the next student 173 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 4: athletes that were coming through. So a year or two later, 174 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 4: I'd started doing some informal coaching with some youngsters on 175 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: the team and found myself a little bit older, perhaps 176 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 4: that little bit wiser. That's arguable, just a different perspective 177 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 4: on life. And as I was coming towards the finish 178 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 4: the later stages of my actual degree, I thought, I'm 179 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 4: probably hitting the ball better than I ever had before, 180 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 4: and started to play again. And that's when I had 181 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 4: just a little bit of really lower level success on 182 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 4: the future what we called the future circuit back then. 183 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 4: And look, in two thousand and eight, I had some 184 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: arm problems. That wasn't the reason I realized it at 185 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 4: twenty six years of age. I think at that point 186 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 4: in time two thousand and eight, Yep, I'm not good 187 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 4: enough and I'm never going to be good enough. So 188 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: that can be quite to confronting, or I certainly provide 189 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 4: a bit of a jolt in your life, a bit 190 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 4: of a where to next. And for me it was 191 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: quite simple. I'd always loved coaching of all sports, I'd 192 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 4: always studied coaches, coach k and during my time in 193 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: the States at the Duke University men's basketball program, or 194 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 4: you name a coaching book. At Paul Rouse's book back 195 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 4: here in Melbourne, you know, I'd read it. As a teenager. 196 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 4: I was passionate about coaching, not just tennis, but all 197 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: kind of all things sport. And so if it was 198 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 4: a case of I think there's a saying for that 199 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: as well. What you can't do, you try to teach. 200 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 4: So I thought, hey, I'm not going to be able 201 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 4: to make it as an elite player. I'm not good enough, 202 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 4: I don't have the ability. I'm not going to kind 203 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 4: of crack that glass ceiling. Let me try and turn 204 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 4: my hand to something that maybe I can be truly 205 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 4: great at. And I don't think i've, by no means 206 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 4: have I been truly great at coaching. But the opportunity 207 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 4: that Chris as my assistant coach at Tennessee, had then 208 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: pivoted to become the head coach at what was the 209 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 4: National Academy in Melbourne back at that time. He was 210 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 4: short on staff, and he said, hey, look, there's no 211 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 4: guarantees here some but if you'd like to sue this, 212 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 4: you can go through the process and try to win 213 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 4: the role. So I did and Melbourne came home for 214 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 4: me back in two thousand and eight. So that was 215 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 4: really what opened my pathway to the last of the 216 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 4: best part of the last couple of decades here at 217 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: Tennis Australia. 218 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: That's awesome, and you have coached some high profile players, 219 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: including Nick Curios at Wimwooden in twenty he was twenty fourteen, 220 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: he made his run to the quarterfinals. What was that 221 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: experience like working with him? 222 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 4: Look, I reflect on my time with Nick. It's a 223 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 4: long time ago. Now it's a decade ago. I reflect 224 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 4: on my time with Nick really fondly. By and large. 225 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 4: That's not to say that went challenges along the way, 226 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 4: and you know Nick is someone that would certainly challenge 227 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: you as a coach. I learned an enormous amount from Nick. 228 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 4: Just on your first point, I think Brent Larkham, who 229 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 4: was another person that's been a really big influence on 230 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 4: my coaching career and given me great opportunity along my 231 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 4: time here at Tennis astral said to me once, look, 232 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: good players make good coach and I think that's true. 233 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 4: So I was really fortunate to have throughout my coaching 234 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 4: tenure at tennis astraight access or opportunity or an involvement 235 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 4: with some of our better players in the sport. Nick 236 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 4: loved to challenge, He loved to push back. I learned 237 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 4: a lot. I think, probably some of the things that 238 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 4: I thought I believed at the start of my time 239 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 4: with Nick, and then what I'd learned over that eighteen months. 240 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 4: And it was only eighteen months, but I learned an 241 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 4: enormous amount. And I think I'd be better for that 242 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 4: experience where I ever to re enter the coaching fray 243 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 4: And as I said, yeah, by and large look back 244 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 4: on that time really fondly. One thing about Nick that 245 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: I do recall, you know, I think that's probably evolved 246 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 4: over time and turned into that entertainer and that charismatic 247 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 4: kind of showman and that alternative style. And I think 248 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 4: there was an element of that that was always there 249 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 4: in Nick. There was always kind of a trickiness in 250 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 4: coaching Nick or applying some rigor or some discipline to 251 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 4: Neck or Nick would love to argue. I can remember 252 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 4: talking about language with Neck and why it was important, 253 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 4: and he would take the alternative point of view and 254 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 4: argue his case really strongly. But one thing I do remember. 255 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 4: You know, Nick would be doing a simple training drom 256 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 4: warming up over at the National Tennis Center here, just 257 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 4: a few hundred meters from where we are today, and 258 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 4: he'd be warming up, hitting balls up and down the 259 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 4: middle with his peers, you know, some of the other 260 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 4: best players in Australia. And if I were down his end, 261 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 4: you know, just four or five meters behind him at 262 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 4: the baseline, and the players missed down the other end. 263 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 4: This is in the first five or ten minutes of 264 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 4: the session. He would say things like, you can't afford 265 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 4: to miss that, just quietly under his breath. 266 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: You know. 267 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 4: It wasn't a sledge at the it was almost I 268 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 4: reflect on that as him being this is the cerebral 269 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 4: part that I think we has gotten lost maybe over 270 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 4: the last decade or so. This is the cerebral part 271 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 4: of neck that was going, I reckon. I know the 272 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 4: level and that's not the level, and that miss there 273 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 4: is going to end up hurting you. So things like 274 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 4: that I've always been able to kind of vividly remember. 275 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 4: And then the Wimbledon experience specifically in twenty fourteen, Gee, 276 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 4: that was interesting. And Aaron Kellett, who was the physical 277 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 4: performance coach, did a great job with Nick because Nick 278 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 4: when he came into the program at fifteen, Nick was 279 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 4: flat out doing one push up. And again, you know, 280 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 4: the clever part of Nick, I think realized over the 281 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 4: ensuing four or five years, oh, my physicality is probably 282 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 4: not going to wash based on where it's out at 283 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 4: the moment. So Nick and Aaron formed a really great 284 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 4: team and Nick actually got to work on his physicality. 285 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 4: You know, it wasn't always perfect, and he pushed back 286 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 4: and challenged Aaron as well, but he knew, I've got 287 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 4: a hole here in my game. Aaron can help me. 288 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 4: Let's get to work, you know. And there were plenty 289 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: of ups and downs on the way, but I always 290 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 4: respected or admired or want to acknowledge that part of Nick. 291 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 4: You know, he knew what needed to be done, whether 292 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 4: he could bring himself to do it on a daily basis, 293 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 4: but he knew He's not silly Nick. He was pretty 294 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 4: clue onto where he was strong, perhaps where he needed 295 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 4: room for improvement, and who could help him along the way. 296 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: So Curiosi's Wimbledon campaign in twenty fourteen, he started with 297 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: a win over Stefan Robert and then said heaps of 298 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: match points to beat Richard Gasgay. But you were a 299 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: little bit concerned that he might have a letdown after 300 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: the gas Game match when he played Vessely so. 301 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 4: And I remember saying to him, mate, Hey mate, our 302 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 4: time might be come to an end, but I'm not 303 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 4: going to let this die. I'm not prepared to allow 304 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: you to let go of this golden opportunity. 305 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: Because it was classic Nick. 306 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 4: It was like Nick against gas Gay in round two, 307 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 4: underdog against one of the great players, one of the 308 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 4: elite play. That's his environment, like on show caught to it, 309 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 4: when we look at what I can do, look at 310 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 4: what I can bring to this moment. Then it was 311 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 4: Vessely who was a really really good player, I don't 312 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 4: get me wrong, really accomplish play. But then it's sort 313 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 4: of like, oh, this is just a bit more ho hum. 314 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 4: This is now round three at Wimbledon against someone forty 315 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 4: six in the world. I'm just making this up forty 316 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 4: six in the world. Oh, I've actually just got to 317 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 4: go and win this match to then get through to 318 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 4: round four and have the raffa opportunity again. So round 319 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 4: three was the challenge. Raffa and Gasque weren't the challenge, 320 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 4: and I'm sort of saying to Nick like, hey, mate, 321 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, but I'm just not prepared to allow you 322 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 4: to waste this incredible opportunity. I wouldn't be doing the 323 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 4: right thing by you. And we had a bit of 324 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 4: a robust conversation and by no means am I the 325 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 4: reason that he won that match. But there's a bit 326 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 4: of an insight into some of those conversations. And he 327 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 4: came out actually after that rain delay and he was 328 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 4: firing and all silly, Yeah he was, he was. It 329 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 4: was a different Nick than we saw in the hour 330 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 4: and a quarter of tennis before the rain delay, and 331 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 4: it ended up being an incredible note for Nick and 332 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 4: I to finish on. Obviously, the match over Raffa, the 333 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 4: win over Raffa was something I'll never forget and speaks 334 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: to I don't know how I don't have that in me. 335 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 4: I don't know how you can walk on to that 336 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 4: court for the first time you've never walked on there before, 337 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 4: and I've said this before, and not think that you're 338 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 4: going to be competitive. No, no, no, no, you're gonna 339 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 4: you're thinking that you're going to dominate this guy, and 340 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 4: you've got no shadow of doubt in your mind. 341 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: It's like, watch me go. Are you coming with me? 342 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 4: I remember I came in from a run that morning 343 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 4: and we were kind of sharing an apartment or town 344 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 4: and he said to me, so I pop around the corner, 345 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 4: so sow good morning, Nick. I pop around the corner. 346 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 4: He said, signs come back. I said, Oh, what's going on? 347 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 3: Nick? 348 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 4: He said, oh, I'm versing your boy today, versing your 349 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 4: boy because he knew I loved Rafa and I talked 350 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 4: to Nick all the time about Raffas. 351 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 3: Stand That's me, raff is my guy. 352 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 4: I'm a Rafa guy, like standards day in day out, discipline, 353 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 4: carry your own bag, do it the right way. I 354 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: love everything that Raffas stands for. And Nick kind of 355 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 4: knew that, and I said, no, no, no, Nick, you're 356 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 4: my boy again. So that's just him like just needling 357 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 4: a little bit or just but it was almost like 358 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: he was sort of saying to me, I got something 359 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 4: in store for you today, you know, And sure enough 360 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 4: he did. It was a remarkable performance, and I reckon 361 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 4: he wasn't far away from Bitten Rayonich in the quarter 362 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: Finals either from memory. 363 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: Sounds like he prepared you for that match against Rafa. 364 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Well I came back. 365 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 4: It's actually funny you should say that because there was 366 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 4: a bunch of us over there. You know, there were 367 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: probably four or five of us the night before the match. 368 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 4: I remember Todd Larkham, who'd had such a big involvement 369 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: with Nick throughout his developmental phase at Canberra. One of 370 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 4: the best coaches I've ever had anything to do with. 371 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 4: And now Tennis Australia Pathway, Mark A. Reid, who's my 372 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: boss today, who was the head of Innovation, who was 373 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 4: leading up our Triple sm team back then, so our 374 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 4: sports science and sports medicine team. 375 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: He was over at Wimbledon. 376 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 4: And Shannon Nettle, who was again a good mate of 377 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 4: mine today, Stinger and one of the best coaches I 378 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 4: think we've ever produced in Australia. 379 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: I just I rate Stingers so highly. And we're going 380 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: through the footage. They said to me, how much footage 381 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: if you watched on RAFA and. 382 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 4: I would have watched fifteen sets by this point over 383 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 4: the preceding thirty six days. Anyway, we're going through it 384 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 4: and the sort of four of us are agonizing over it, 385 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 4: and I'm jotting down my notes in my book. And 386 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 4: it's funny you should say that if I came up 387 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: to Nick before the match, we had the routine, you know, 388 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 4: you warm up, and then he'd go and have a 389 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 4: shower whatever you and then I'd go to my notebook, right, 390 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: and then. 391 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: We're about to have a bit of a chat. 392 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 4: And it was always very earnest for me, very serious, 393 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 4: very you don't want to get that wrong. 394 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 3: That's your moment as you've got a responsibility, right. 395 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 4: So I went through the report and I wasn't quite 396 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 4: sure just how well I was connecting or where his 397 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 4: mind was at. So I said, Nick, just checking him, mate, 398 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 4: you got all that, like you know, serve return from 399 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 4: the back of the court. This is the plan A, 400 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 4: this is Plan B. Keep this up your sleeve. This 401 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 4: is what I'm expecting. He's at his most dangerous when 402 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 4: he's dealing, when he's operating in this way. So we 403 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 4: can't let that happen under any circumstances. Good, you're clear 404 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: with that, to keep it simple. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, 405 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 4: I'm good mate. I got it, sir, big play big, 406 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 4: I got it. I was like okay, beauty, and please do. 407 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 4: I've watched that fifteen hours of fifteen sets of footage 408 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 4: and consulted the other experts in the room, and it 409 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 4: was like that was him saying, just watch me, shine, sir, 410 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 4: big play, big back myself, biggest stage in world tennis. 411 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 4: I'm going to put in something special. So that's a 412 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 4: really good prompt to reflect on that story. 413 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 414 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I also remember that. 415 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: I think my undying memory of that match was that 416 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: between the legs when he hit and when you watch 417 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what point of the match it was, 418 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: but like he almost half folly something between his legs. Yeah, 419 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: and the commentator whoever it was, was just gone, like 420 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: they were just never seen get by what they saw 421 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: in the way he celebrated, and you were like, yeah, 422 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: it was quite as you said, when he walks onto 423 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: the court, how do you come on and own the 424 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: place when you've caught in tennis and you have been 425 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: there was that was almost that moment. 426 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: I'm just in awe of that. I don't have that 427 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 4: in me, you know, I wouldn't. I don't know how 428 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 4: you instill that in someone. I'm just in awe of that. 429 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 4: Capability that Nick has to shine in that moment and 430 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 4: to produce his best tennis and to have not one 431 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 4: shadow of doubt that he's going to dominate that environment. 432 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 4: You guys are kind of really prompting me to reflect 433 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: on these memories that I wasn't sure that I still had, 434 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 4: because when that shot happened, that's an example of the 435 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 4: type of stuff that Aaron and I would have been 436 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 4: trying to say, we don't want that. 437 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 3: Stuff, and you do it. 438 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 4: So I remember I was kind of leaning over the hoardings, 439 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 4: you know, and holding on like this, and Aaron's kind 440 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 4: of I can't remember if he's half jumped out of 441 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 4: his seat, and I'm trying not to kind of go 442 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 4: banana's myself. It's obviously the hell of a shot, but 443 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 4: I'm trying to play the poker face, right, and I'm 444 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 4: just kind of hanging under the hoardings, going mate, I'm 445 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 4: not moving. 446 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 3: I'm not applauding for that. 447 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 4: So the rest of the jokers in the stand and 448 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 4: you're trying to send the coaching exactly. 449 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 3: So I suspect that was well. 450 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 4: Time would say that I've fought a losing battle there, 451 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 4: because there's been more and more of that over time. 452 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 4: But hey, that's what I believed, and that's what I 453 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 4: wanted to stand for as a coach, and that's what 454 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 4: he wanted to stand for as an athlete. 455 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 3: And he's the one out there playing. So there you go. 456 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: Interestingly, the next player you worked with with Sam stoves 457 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: a polar opposite, much more reserved and. 458 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: Inwood and plays of a Korea different vas. 459 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: In Korean that she was already a Grand Slam champion 460 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: obviously playing, you know, coaching a top woman versus the 461 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: top man. What was that shift like to go from 462 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: working with Nick to Sam? 463 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 3: A big shift? 464 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I reckon I made some mistakes 465 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 4: along the way, but happy to share any of those. 466 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 4: Before I do that, I would just kind of tip 467 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 4: my cap and marvel at what a professional, what a 468 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 4: work ethic, what a love of the game, what a 469 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 4: mentally tough human being before you even get to tennis player, 470 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 4: Because you know, as Federer said recently at the kind 471 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 4: of commencement speech, you know that fifty four percent of 472 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 4: his points at the greatest of all time or one 473 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 4: of the greatest of all time. And Sam had plenty 474 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 4: of heartbreaking moments, particularly here in Australia, you know where. 475 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 4: That was a really challenging environment for her over a 476 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 4: long period of time to handle being the hometown favorite 477 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 4: and all of that expect and pressure kind of heaped 478 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 4: on her shoulders, and she'd. 479 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: Just keep fronting up. 480 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 4: Like you know, Sam is talk about mental toughness, because 481 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,239 Speaker 4: it's one thing to kind of shy away from that 482 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 4: or try to avoid, or it's another thing altogether to 483 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 4: kind of know it's coming, know what you've got to 484 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 4: deal with, know how uncomfortable maybe it might make you 485 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 4: in certain circumstances, and to keep showing up. I just 486 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 4: kind of marvel at Sam's mental toughness, and it learned 487 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 4: a lot from her because where I was coming from 488 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 4: and where Sam we're coming from. 489 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: Like Sam. 490 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 4: I think Sam's attention to detail, professionalism, attention to the 491 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 4: one percenters, I found those quite remarkable. But in Sam's mind, 492 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 4: she didn't want any praise for that. That's just business 493 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 4: as usual. She's just like, no, no, no, I just 494 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 4: want to know about the next opponent, top three ways 495 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 4: to break through them, that's all. But I found Sam 496 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 4: an icon of the sport, an incredible credit to herself, 497 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 4: to a family I mean, what can I say hasn't 498 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 4: already been said about Sam? And I learned a lot 499 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 4: along that journey as well. 500 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: You returned to New Zealand and had a stint as 501 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: high performance director tell us about tennis in New Zealand. 502 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 4: Today, Well, that was kind of a really I was 503 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 4: really grateful for the time in New Zealand I had 504 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 4: a and I was really grateful for what led me 505 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 4: to this point. As it turns out, I might not 506 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 4: have realized it at the time. I had a tough 507 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: marriage break up here in Australia, We had a restructure 508 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 4: at Tennis Australia and I could have reapplied for a 509 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: coaching position, no guarantee I was going to win it, 510 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 4: but I chose not to. So there was a kind 511 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 4: of a redundancy involved there. So and I moved back home. Now, 512 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 4: if you talk to I don't know, if you talk 513 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 4: to a GP, they'll probably say to you, hey, some 514 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 4: of the more stressful things that can happen in your 515 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 4: life relationship breakup, tick, moving house, tick, and lost a 516 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 4: job tick. 517 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 3: So that was a really challenging period for me. 518 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 4: And it wasn't until probably a couple of years later 519 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 4: that I was able to maybe sit back, take stock 520 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 4: and see it for what it was. Perhaps wasn't processing 521 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: that period at the time as well as I might 522 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 4: have been, but I was grateful for the time back 523 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 4: in New Zealand. It was a small team, it was 524 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 4: on a shoestring budget. We were really well led by 525 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 4: Julie Patterson, who was the CEO, who I think you 526 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 4: guys would have had experiences like this throughout your professional journey. 527 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 4: We all would have where you may not gel with 528 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 4: someone early days, but by the time I left, and Anna, 529 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 4: who's now the mother of our three kids, was pregnant 530 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 4: with our firstborn. She was over in New Zealand for 531 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 4: a period of time, but she'd always been really clear, 532 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 4: if and when we're lucky enough to have a family together, 533 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 4: I want to do that back in Geelong. 534 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you talk about the success of New 535 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 2: Zealand players because it kind of has been this more 536 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: successful period with Daniel and Venus at Tokyo, Aaron Routliffing 537 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 2: Doubles and Lulu Sun. 538 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 539 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: How do you think that resonates back in New Zealand. 540 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's been huge news. I reckon the 541 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 4: biggest news since the Chris Lewis nineteen eighty three. 542 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 3: I think it was eighty three. The reference that. 543 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 4: I made earlier was Lulu and this run to the 544 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 4: fourth round of Wimbledon over the last couple of months, 545 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 4: so it's been front page news on the New Zealand 546 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 4: Herald back there. 547 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 3: It's been huge. 548 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 4: So I think tennis hasn't been in the headlights in 549 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 4: that way. I don't reckon since nineteen eighty three. So 550 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 4: even though Lulu's a really recent addition, you know, we've 551 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: seen that in Australia. We've seen the outpouring of love 552 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: and admiration and support for Eiler and Dasher and some 553 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 4: of these players that didn't always call Australia home but 554 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 4: certainly do so now and will forever in a day, 555 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 4: and I think it's the same in New Zealand, and 556 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 4: just so exciting for Julie and the team at Tennis 557 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 4: New Zellen who still Julie still heads up the team 558 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 4: there at Tennis New Zealen. I'm really hoping that that 559 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 4: can inspire a generation of youngsters like we've seen here 560 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: with Ash and with Leyton and with Sam and with 561 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 4: all of our our and now it's Alex and all 562 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 4: of great champions in Australia and tennis. I think at 563 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 4: a really and I don't know the data and behind 564 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 4: this at a really simple level, you know, I think 565 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 4: you want to hold the trophy up like those great champions. 566 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 4: So I'm really hoping that can be the catalyst that 567 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 4: has tennis more on the map over the next couple 568 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 4: of decades in New Zealand than it has been. 569 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: I actually heard an interview they syndicated an interview on 570 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: se n Z so C New Zealand and they got 571 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: Belinda Cardwell, Yeah, the strain up in semi finalists to 572 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: talk about lu Lusan and it was this growing story. 573 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: It was really cool and even to remember the chief 574 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: made of semi finalcy so that that's been actually a 575 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: lineage of good of good results of New Zealand. I's 576 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: just a little bit spaced. 577 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think I don't reckon there's any reason 578 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 4: why they can't overcome some of these challenges. Another one 579 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 4: is it's a wet country and winter New Zealand like 580 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: it's seriously wet. You know, people ask me how Melbourne compares. 581 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: I reckon Melbourne. I don't know the science on this 582 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 4: I reckon, Melbourne feels colder to me, especially over the 583 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 4: last few weeks. 584 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 3: It's been pretty. 585 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 4: Bitterly cult It's turned this week, which is fantas but 586 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 4: I think New Zealand gets so much more rain and 587 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 4: you can overcome that. But you've got to have the 588 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 4: indoor facilities, and you've got to have your youngsters that 589 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 4: can kind of access the courts at the right time 590 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 4: and can get the support from their schooling, and you 591 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 4: need the tennis ecosystem. And my view is on Kiwi 592 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 4: sport and they've always done it well. They had a 593 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: terrific Olympic Games just passed again in Paris. They punched 594 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 4: well above their weight. They do it through coming together. Yeah, 595 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 4: and I don't think we've done that tremendously well in 596 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 4: tennis in New Zealand over the last two, three, maybe 597 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 4: four decades. So that's an opportunity that lies in wait. 598 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: I reckon your focus now is data analysis, and I 599 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: know you said before that's something you're very passionate about 600 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: and you strongly believe in that as part of your 601 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: coaching philosophy. So I just wonder where that why that 602 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: side of the game appeals to you and how that 603 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: kind of came to be in your coaching philosophy. 604 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 605 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 4: I think probably the best way I would try to 606 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 4: answer that was probably HARKing back to what I touched 607 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 4: on with my time with Nick in terms of the 608 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 4: you know, the notes and he said, yeah, I've got 609 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 4: it some. I've done seven and a half hours of 610 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 4: homework for this moment, and next gone, yeah, I've got 611 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 4: it some. 612 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 3: So big, play big, I've got to just watch me 613 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: go to work. 614 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 4: But I think that responsibility of a coach to be 615 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 4: as informed as you can possibly be, as rigorous and 616 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 4: as applied and as specific as you can in your 617 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 4: analysis of the next opponent, I think that's a really 618 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 4: heavy responsibility. And I've heard Dave Taylor, who's a coach 619 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 4: that I admire so much, talk about the responsibility and 620 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 4: the weight of responsibility that a coach has in their hands, 621 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 4: and I think that's always something that weighed really heavily 622 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 4: on me. So a big part of that is the 623 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 4: work that we do now in terms of what can 624 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 4: we understand that can help our Australian players and coaches, 625 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 4: is that trends of the game itself over time, is 626 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 4: that how player A has changed from twenty twenty two 627 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 4: to twenty twenty four, so that our Aussies when they 628 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 4: come up against them, can be prepared for those changes. No, no, no, 629 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 4: they're not the same player that they were in twenty 630 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 4: twenty two. Let me show you how they've changed over time. 631 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 4: And I think some of the talk about work ethic, 632 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 4: you know, some of the traveling and the rigor that's 633 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 4: involved in coaching is really demanding, particularly living down here 634 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 4: in Australia so far from the tennis hubs around the 635 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 4: world right as the tennis kind of calendar follows the 636 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 4: sun everywhere. But the work ethic of this team I'm 637 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 4: involved in now, to be honest, I've never seen anything 638 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 4: like it. Vivan Matt, you know, and I see you 639 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 4: in here the first thing in the morning, but I'm 640 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 4: out of here at kind of early in the afternoon 641 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 4: or you know, early in the evening. And this team 642 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 4: I'm working in, you know, Olivia and Shatia, doctor Olivia 643 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 4: Kan and doctor Shatai Goonku and Levi Hardlesten. These guys 644 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 4: are working so hard in the back end to kind 645 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 4: of power these insights, and Levi and Shatia engineering the 646 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 4: systems and lives working her brilliance to help me tell 647 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 4: the stories of how players are maybe evolving. So that's 648 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 4: the part that I think ties in with kind of 649 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 4: the world that I've known is hey, guys, you guys 650 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 4: can do some brilliant work in a way, I think 651 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 4: part of the challenges And I was still having this 652 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 4: conversation just before I came in here with Live, Hey, Live, 653 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 4: we could do a fifteen page kind of real deep 654 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 4: dive on Taylor Preston, for example, is one of the 655 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 4: Aussies that we're really supporting heavily at the moment. But 656 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 4: we've still got to be able to make it simple 657 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 4: enough for it to resonate with the coach like we've 658 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 4: all only got and Brad's a really clever guy, Brad, 659 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 4: but we've all only got so much capacity to absorb information. 660 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 4: So how can we take the wonderful amount of insight 661 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 4: that lives able to generate and craft and curate and 662 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 4: distill it down so that Brad's got three, maybe four 663 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 4: really easily understood clear takeaway. Okay, I need to get 664 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 4: to work with Tay here, here, here, and here and 665 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 4: maybe it's just two things for the next three months, 666 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 4: and these other two can sid on the back burner, 667 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 4: but in twelve months from now, we need to see 668 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 4: improvement across these four areas, so that's still part of 669 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 4: the challenge, is simplifying all of the amazing insights that 670 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 4: these guys are capable of crafting. 671 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: Well, Simon, thanks so much for being really generous of 672 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: your time, and I'm glad we were able to stir 673 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: some memories in your mind and get you to reflect 674 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: on that. That was really amazing talking to you. 675 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 4: It's been a lovely opportunity for me to reflect on 676 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 4: all of these experiences. So thanks for the invitation, Vivan 677 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 4: Matt I really appreciate this. 678 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: Well. 679 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: Wasn't that a fascinating chat with Simon and all of 680 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: his experiences in tennis. 681 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 682 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: I often think when we have our sit down guests 683 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: that we could just talk to them for hours longer, 684 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: But I guess there's so much time in the day 685 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: I've got, isn't there. 686 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, we would love to keep talking all day long, 687 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: but we'll be back next week when we talk to 688 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: John Fitzgerald on Davis Cup and Australian Tennis. 689 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: And in the meantime you can join John on the team. 690 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: This Thursday on the Aoshow Weekly. 691 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes, 692 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: and as always, please remember to subscribe, rate, and review. 693 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: Oh and while we've got you here, feel free to 694 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: reach out to us if you've got any ideas for 695 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: who you'd like us to sit down with, and we'll 696 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: see if we can make it happen. We'll see you 697 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: next week, Viv look. 698 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: Forward to it. Matt,