1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Right now, it's Will and Woody. 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 2: A little bit of a content warning on this next 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 2: bit here on Will and Woody, as we are talking 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: about that story about the boys at Yarra Valley Grammar 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: who released a series of ratings for some girls in 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: their class. 7 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 3: An elite Melbourne school has suspended four year eleven boys 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 3: over a disgraceful online ranking of their female classmates. As 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: exclusively revealed by Today's Christina Hern, the spreadsheet ratings wife 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 3: is cuti's mid object, get out and most disturbingly unrapable. 11 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: Now, will do you let me know that two of 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: those boys have since been expelled. 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's today's today's news. Yeah. 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: So yesterday we spoke about the fact that as Dud's 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: we can sort of put our heads in the sand 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: about this and not talk about it. But we feel 17 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: as if there are a lot of young guys that 18 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: listen to us, who we know we have an influence over, 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: and we felt that it was important to talk about 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: really trying to find a way to cut this thing 21 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: off earlier, nip it in the butt, this idea of 22 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: objectifying women, which we put our hands up and said. 23 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: We both went to a private boys' school we were 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: surrounded by this. I'm sure that we were complicit in 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: it in some way while we were at school as well. 26 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: And I know what it's like to be in that environment. 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 2: I know how inescapable it is. Now that doesn't excuse it, 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: but I think it's important to get down to how 29 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: we start, how why we start objectifying women. And we 30 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: spoke to this brilliant woman called doctor Stephanie Westcott, who's 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: electure and Education culture at Monish University, and the point 32 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: I made to her was that I feel like, personally, 33 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: as a dude, I stopped this idea of objectification when 34 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: I started having female friends and I started. I stopped 35 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: seeing them as objects because I started seeing them as people. 36 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: And I was that help Because I had an older 37 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: sister and I was sort of surrounded by a lot 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: of girls early on. I was lucky in that sense. 39 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: Her point to that, though interesting thing, was that Yarra 40 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Valley Grammar is a co. 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 4: Ed school exactly, so this isn't just a single sex 42 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 4: school problem. 43 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: Clearly if exactly going on to co. 44 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: Ed school, and she said, they're obviously seeing them as 45 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: people because they're sitting next to them in class, they're 46 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: learning with them. They're and doing team projects together. And 47 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: then she said, which I thought was fascinating. She said, 48 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: changing the way that men think about women has to 49 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 2: happen earlier than that. And it's funny when you think 50 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: about it, like we talk about you and I and 51 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: new fathers woods, we both got little girls. We think about, 52 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: you know, educating kids with manners and patients. We teach 53 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: them education, We teach them as much wisdom as we 54 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: can implement in them. But if you have a little boy, 55 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: this isn't something that we learn. I don't think it's 56 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: something that's actively taught. And I think that's just a 57 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: fascinating conversation. And talking to doctor Stephanie yesterday, I think 58 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: it proved that that is where this kind of needs 59 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: to start. And we had we opened the phone lines, 60 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: we had a whole bunch of wonderful people calling up, 61 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: but as she pointed out, there was only one gender 62 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 2: who was joining the conversation. 63 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 5: You know, the host of this show, Will and what 64 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 5: are you doing an amazing job of leading this conversation. 65 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 5: That it's worth noting too that both the callers we've 66 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 5: had so far have been women asking questions, how do 67 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 5: we do a better job. How do we teach our sons, 68 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 5: How do we teach our boys? Men have to be 69 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 5: part of this conversation. They haven't been in your callers 70 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 5: so far. That doesn't mean that there's not some men 71 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 5: on the line. 72 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: I can tell you step that I'm looking at all 73 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: the calls coming through. They're all women. Well, I think 74 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: that's a fascinating point I've just made. 75 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, there were some men who commented though online. We 76 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 4: did put a video up yeah on the socials last night. 77 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's interesting in and of itself, 78 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: you know, willing to comment on something online with an 79 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: anonymous handle as a man, but then not willing to 80 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: call the show and talk about it. 81 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: And I'm going to throw over to our. 82 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: Digital producer kV, who studiously monitored the comments that came 83 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 2: in last night. 84 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was pretty intense. 85 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: So so what do you mean by intense? kV? 86 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 6: I felt like the people commenting just didn't understand and 87 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 6: the severity of the situation or the weight of the video, 88 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 6: like they just completely ignore the point. And these negative 89 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 6: comments were all from men as well. 90 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: It's funny, like I'm reading one of them now from 91 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: this guy called the Donster. He said, oh, jog on 92 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: clout chases boys, girls, we all did it just because 93 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: you all got wokers. F Now, why did Mary kiss 94 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: kill not get this attention back in the day. And 95 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: it's funny because I feel like that's the issue because 96 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: it didn't get the attention back in the day. It's 97 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: embedded and it is something that we consider as normal, 98 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: and this is a continuation of Mary kiss Killed. 99 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: It should have got more attention back in the day 100 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: and it didn't. 101 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: Like all these systemic problems, they didn't get the attention 102 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: at the time, they're now coming up as something which 103 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: is getting attention, and people who are conditioned to believe 104 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: in that it is okay are the ones that are saying, oh, well, 105 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: it didn't get any attention back in the day, so 106 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: why should you get attention now. And it's like, well, 107 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 2: because we've evolved and we're thinking about this constructively, and 108 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: there are people that are getting hurt. 109 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: There are awful statistics around. 110 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: Women getting killed, and there's a direct correlation between how 111 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: men think when they're young and how they act when 112 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: they're older. 113 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's kind of getting pretty frustrating now to 114 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 4: hear people continuing to say, oh, but I'm just. 115 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: That this is harmless. I'm just joking around. 116 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 4: They're just words, you know, and it's like, No, there 117 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 4: are a number of experts now that are saying that 118 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 4: it is that that is leading to. 119 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: Women being attacked. 120 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 4: Now, yeah, I know that that could be really hard 121 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 4: to see sometimes they know that it goes from that 122 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 4: to something as horrific as a woman being attacked, But 123 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 4: there are experts saying. 124 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: That's the start. Yeah. 125 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: The other comment, which I'm reading out here, just someone 126 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 2: called WTF. They said the girls at my high school 127 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: rated the boys no internet back then, but a paper 128 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: list read out loud. It has been going on for 129 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: many years. 130 00:05:58,800 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: I think the. 131 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: Difference here is is that it's not the it's the 132 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: girls that are getting killed, not the men that are 133 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: getting killed. So like that's where we're focusing our attention on. Yes, 134 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: of course this is going to happen in and amongst 135 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: closed circles. But if the issue was the other way 136 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: around that, I'm sure we'd be focusing on the other 137 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: way around. But the issue is that the men are 138 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: growing up in that position physically more powerful, physically capable 139 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: of causing harm when they're older so that's where our 140 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: attention needs to be. That's logical. 141 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: That annoys me that comment. 142 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: Anyway, there are lots of comments online on Will and 143 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: Woody that you guys can read contribute to if you 144 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: want to, because it is a good conversation in some ways, 145 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: and I'm glad that there is a conversation there. Thank 146 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: you kV for performing the role of sense. You need 147 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: to pay rise what I want to do right now 148 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: because doctor Stephanie brought this up yesterday and it didn't 149 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: happen yesterday, and I think we should give it the 150 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: opportunity to happen. Let's and I hate the fact that 151 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: we have to keep making this about men, but it 152 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: is also important. I think we should try and hear 153 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: from some men who do agree with or even if 154 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: you don't agree with it, fine, But we didn't hear 155 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: from any men yesterday. It was just women talking about 156 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: educating and re educating and how they can help and 157 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: how they can change their kids. I think it's important 158 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: that we do hear from some guys thirty one or 159 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: six ' five. What do men feel about this? See 160 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: what happens. I don't know how this is going to go, 161 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: but we'll do it right up next. What a hundred 162 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: respect is the number if you have been the victim 163 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: of abuse. Thirteen eleven fourteen is a lifeline number if 164 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: this has affected you. On that way, that's where the'mready kiss. 165 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: Hear more of the boys on the full podcast. 166 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: Just scroll up.