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Speaker 1: Well, coming your way in just a moment's time, we

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Speaker 1: are going to be speaking to Robin Lamley, the Independent

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Speaker 1: Member Farara lun Because this discussion about the Public Accounts

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Speaker 1: Committee and whether this petition is going to be allowed

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Speaker 1: or approved for debate in the Parliament, well it's going

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Speaker 1: to be decided today. That fate is going to be

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Speaker 1: decided today at midday. So essentially the way in which

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Speaker 1: this works, from my understanding, is that the MPTY Opposition

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Speaker 1: obviously tabled that petition in Parliament yesterday calling for Decklan's

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Speaker 1: Law in honor of the twenty year old who lost

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Speaker 1: his life tragically after being allegedly murdered with a weapon

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Speaker 1: whilst working, as we know, at a darw And bottle

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Speaker 1: shop in March this year. Now more than twenty three

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Speaker 1: thousand people have since called on the Northern Territory government

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Speaker 1: for some stronger changes and action when it comes to crime.

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Speaker 1: The petition's been referred to the Public Accounts Committee of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly, which is indeed responsible for

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Speaker 1: scrutinizing the government, for a decision as to whether or

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Speaker 1: not the matters raised in that petition should be referred

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Speaker 1: back to Parliament for debate.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley sits on that committee. She is indeed the

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Speaker 1: independent member for Ara Luhn and joins me on the

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Speaker 1: line right now.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Robin, Good morning Katie, the independent member and

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Speaker 3: the thorn in their side.

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Speaker 2: That's all right.

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Speaker 1: I think there's nothing wrong with being known as that,

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Speaker 1: particularly on something that people are so incredibly passionate about. Robin,

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Speaker 1: before I ask about the Public Accounts Committee from your

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Speaker 1: recollection in your time in Parliament, can you recall another

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Speaker 1: petition garnering such a high volume of people signing it.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't, Katie. This is to my mind unprecedented,

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Speaker 3: and that's why I've gone public on the process. The

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Speaker 3: fact that it is up to this Public Accounts Committee

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Speaker 3: of the Northern Territory Legislative Assembly, which is controlled and

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Speaker 3: operated by the government, to allow this petition to go

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Speaker 3: back to Parliament to be debated. It's so important, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So Robin, what is the process today?

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Speaker 3: Well, we meet today and one of the items on

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Speaker 3: the agenda that's always there is consideration of petitions. There

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Speaker 3: are no guidelines, there's no criteria for making for this

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Speaker 3: committee on how they make decisions around whether or not

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Speaker 3: petitions then forward back to the Parliament. I did make

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Speaker 3: a mistake earlier. I said that I told you that

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Speaker 3: twenty three all of the twenty three petitions that have

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Speaker 3: been referred to the Public Accounts Committee since the start

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Speaker 3: of this parliament back in August twenty twenty, none of

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Speaker 3: them have gone back to Parliament. There was one that

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Speaker 3: went back to Partment.

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Speaker 2: What was that? What was it Jeremmber.

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Speaker 3: It was one on education boundary and that took a

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Speaker 3: hell of a plot of debate over a long period

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Speaker 3: of time to eventually get it back into Parliament for

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Speaker 3: a debate. So the chances the odds of any petition

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Speaker 3: being referred to the PAC and the PAC the Public

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Speaker 3: Accounts Committee then allowing it to go back to Parliament

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Speaker 3: for debate is minimal, very very low.

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Speaker 1: So today at lunchtime, so midday today, this Public Accounts

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Speaker 1: Committee is going to meet and determine whether this will

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Speaker 1: go back to the Parliament for debate.

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Speaker 2: Now, talk our listeners through.

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Speaker 1: I've mentioned it earlier this morning, but talk us through

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Speaker 1: who makes up that committee.

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Speaker 3: So the chair of the committee is Joel Bowden and

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Speaker 3: the other two Labor members Manuel Brown, who's the new

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Speaker 3: member for Arafura, and the other member is Brent Potter,

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Speaker 3: and Brent Potter of course is the deputy chair. So

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Speaker 3: you've got three labor members and two non government members

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Speaker 3: myself and Bill. Yeah. So this is such an important committee,

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Speaker 3: parliamentary committee, Katie. It's meant to do really important work

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Speaker 3: on scrutinizing the government. But when you've got three out

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Speaker 3: of the five members being government members, that just doesn't happen.

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Speaker 3: So I've called on the committee now to make sure

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Speaker 3: that this particular petition does go back to the Parliament.

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Speaker 3: It shouldn't be a particularly long or arduous debate within

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Speaker 3: the committee, but who knows. Given that twenty two out

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Speaker 3: of the last twenty three petitions are being blocked haven't

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Speaker 3: gone back to the Parliament for debate, My expectations are

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Speaker 3: very low.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that everybody on that committee, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter where your political stripes are, they need to actually

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Speaker 1: listen to the community. At this point in time, the

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Speaker 1: community is screaming out for change, and the community is

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Speaker 1: screaming out for the government to listen to them. If

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Speaker 1: those three members block this from happening, they ought to

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Speaker 1: be ashamed of themselves.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely Katie. I think they should be ashamed of themselves

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Speaker 3: for blocking twenty two out of the last twenty three petitions.

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Speaker 3: But if they block this one, the biggest petition in

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Speaker 3: living memory that's ever gone through the Northern Territory Parliament

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Speaker 3: or Legislative Assembly, then what does that say about the

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Speaker 3: state of the internal state of the Labor government. If

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Speaker 3: they can't let a debate, a fulsome debate on this

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Speaker 3: particular important issue proceed within the Parliament, it really says

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Speaker 3: to me that this government is in really a very

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Speaker 3: bad state.

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Speaker 1: Robin, are you paid extra money to be on this committee?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we all are so, Joel Bowden. I get paid

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Speaker 3: an extra sixteen thousand dollars a year to sit on

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Speaker 3: the Public Accounts Committee, and Joel Bowden, being the chair,

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Speaker 3: gets paid double that. He gets paid an extra thirty

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Speaker 3: two thousand dollars per year. The output of this committee

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Speaker 3: has been appallingly low. I've been on lots of parliamentary

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Speaker 3: committees in my time and I have never sat on

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Speaker 3: a parliamentary committee that's paid like this. You're not paid

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Speaker 3: to sit on all of them, but because of the

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Speaker 3: importance of this particular committee you get paid. I've never

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Speaker 3: sat on one that has has had such a low output,

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Speaker 3: and I'm on the public record as saying that I've

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Speaker 3: said it before at every opportunity. Under the leadership of

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Speaker 3: Joel Bowden, it's been staggeringly slow and really we haven't

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Speaker 3: earned our money at all.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that more comes down to the inner

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Speaker 1: working of the Labor Party and of the government.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do. I think these three Labor members are

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Speaker 3: very clearly being instructed by Level five, by the minister ministers. Probably.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it in action. I've observed interactions between staff

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Speaker 3: from Level five during public hearings. I've seen them refer

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Speaker 3: to notes, the three of them, to notes that haven't

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Speaker 3: been available to myself and the other member, Billy and

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Speaker 3: the Coop member. This particular parliamentary committee is an instrument

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Speaker 3: of the Labor Government and when you have.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be those shouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I think government. No. No, it's fundamentally wrong and it's

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Speaker 3: inconsistent with the democratic processes that are supposed to exist

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Speaker 3: within the Westminster parliamentary system. This is not how parliamentary

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Speaker 3: committees operate throughout the world. Within the Westminster Parliamentary system.

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Speaker 3: Within the Commonwealth, how we operate our committees in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory is an anomaly. It is wrong. It is

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Speaker 3: not right that government has the first and final say

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Speaker 3: over the recommendations and the work that's undertaken by any

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Speaker 3: parliamentary committee. So my expectations of today are very low.

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Speaker 3: But I'm going into this meeting to fight for all

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Speaker 3: those twenty three thousand people that have signed the signet

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Speaker 3: this petition, and particularly for Decklan Lavity and his family

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Speaker 3: and friends. If this petition is not referred back to Parliament,

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Speaker 3: then I absolutely despair. There's big fundamental problems with how

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Speaker 3: our parliament is operating if this doesn't get back to

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Speaker 3: Parliament for proper debate.

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Speaker 1: Well with democracy, you know, there's fundamental problem because you

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Speaker 1: think you've got twenty three thousand people that have signed

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Speaker 1: a petition.

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Speaker 2: How can you ignore that.

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Speaker 3: Well, they've managed to ignore twenty two out of the

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Speaker 3: last twenty three petitions. You know, it's really not a

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Speaker 3: big deal to refer petitions back to Parliament for what

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Speaker 3: is a fairly minimal debate. It's not a debate like

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Speaker 3: other bills and motions put forward. It's truncated, it's cut short,

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Speaker 3: but it's significant. It's significant to be allowed to debate

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Speaker 3: petitions that people Territorians are putting together and members of

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Speaker 3: Parliament are tabling in Parliament. To just ignore them is

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Speaker 3: it's brutal. It's so un democratic and fundamentally wrong.

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Speaker 2: Robin.

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Speaker 1: Someone's just asked on the tech sign, Katie, is the

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Speaker 1: Public Accounts Committee meeting going to be made public?

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Speaker 2: They're not public, are they?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: And that's their lies the problem. And that's why I've

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Speaker 3: issued the press release on what's going to be happening

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Speaker 3: today because I will probably not be able to speak

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Speaker 3: about what goes on in this meeting today. They're very

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Speaker 3: their confidential meetings and if I was to speak out

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Speaker 3: of turn on anything that happens in any of the

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Speaker 3: meetings of the Public Account's Committee, I could find myself

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Speaker 3: in trouble. I'm not sure what that trouble is, and

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Speaker 3: to be honest, I don't particularly.

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Speaker 1: And do you say, I mean, could that happen to

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Speaker 1: you even now because you've spoken out.

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Speaker 3: No, because I'm not talking about any deliberations or decisions

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Speaker 3: that have been made. I'm talking about a decision that

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Speaker 3: will be made. So I'm on safe ground here. The

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Speaker 3: only person probably who can give you the answer of

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Speaker 3: the outcome of the meeting today will be the chair

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Speaker 3: of that committee, Joel Bowden, And I suggest the media

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Speaker 3: ring here, it's half past one this afternoon and find

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Speaker 3: out just what the three labor members of the Public

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Speaker 3: Accounts Committee decided.

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Speaker 2: So we will find out.

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Speaker 1: Will we will be able to find out, won't whether

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Speaker 1: they voted against this happening.

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Speaker 3: Not necessarily, No, they could. They could decide that this

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Speaker 3: remains confidential. They could instead of referring it back to

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Speaker 3: Parliament to be debated, they could ask the minister for

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Speaker 3: more details or information, which is what they commonly do.

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Speaker 3: It's a bit of a stalling tactic. It's about gathering

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Speaker 3: information and ultimately saying no you are Joe, No I'm not.

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Speaker 3: That's that's what happens.

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Speaker 1: Appalling, Katie, Yeah, it's appalling and unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: The relason why I stay on this committee is because

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Speaker 3: the committee needs eyes and ears like mine to see

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Speaker 3: what's going on and try and report it back to

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Speaker 3: the public, so the public then becomes aware of how dysfunctional.

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Speaker 3: Well that's how undemocratic I think.

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Speaker 2: The thing is.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty clear cut in the sense that you've come

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Speaker 1: out and said that you're going to vote in favor

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Speaker 1: for this petition being debated in parliament. The oppositions presented

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Speaker 1: it in parliament, so you know, common sense would tell

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Speaker 1: you that they're certainly going to be voting the same

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Speaker 1: way as you.

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Speaker 2: I would suspect given the faith that Fel presented.

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Speaker 3: He said that, yeah, and.

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Speaker 1: So then really, you know, the only way that this

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Speaker 1: is not going to happen is if the other three

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Speaker 1: don't vote for it to happen.

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Speaker 2: But Robin if sorry, Matie.

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping that with your pressure, with the media coverage

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Speaker 3: that you're giving this issue this morning, and I thank

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Speaker 3: you for doing it, that Labor will be forced to

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Speaker 3: making sure that this goes back to Parliament for a

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Speaker 3: proper debate. And I think autely favorable for that reason,

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Speaker 3: and I thank you Katie for doing what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And look, I really hope so.

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Speaker 1: And do you know the disappointing thing for me is

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Speaker 1: in the past, under other governments that would have been

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Speaker 1: the case. But we've seen time and time again from

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Speaker 1: this government that even when you've got voices like Samaralavity

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Speaker 1: and others coming out and saying this is not good enough.

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Speaker 1: We want there to be further discussion. We want there

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Speaker 1: to be further change. The government's still not listening, and

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Speaker 1: that is why people are becoming so incredibly frustrated.

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Speaker 3: That arrogance creeps into governments. We saw it in the

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Speaker 3: last government, the c LP government, and we're seeing it

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Speaker 3: in this government too, that disrespect for Territorians, the arrogance,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's a sure sign that we need

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Speaker 3: a change of government when they can't see the wood

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Speaker 3: from the trees and they forget what really counts well.

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley, I appreciate you chatting with us this morning.

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Speaker 1: I think you know you've put yourself out on a

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Speaker 1: limb obviously telling people exactly how this works with the

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Speaker 1: Public Accounts Committee, so that everyday Territorians have got a

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Speaker 1: better idea, because you know, otherwise, if if you didn't,

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Speaker 1: some of us would be you know, not one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent sal who's on that committee or how exactly it's

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Speaker 1: going to work today. So I really appreciate you having

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Speaker 1: a chat with us this morning, and we'll wait and

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Speaker 1: see what happens.

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Speaker 3: No worries.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks a lot, Coatie, Thanks Robert