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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, make sure that the tasks are developmentally appropriate. There's

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Speaker 2: no point asking the six year old lumpack the dishwasher

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Speaker 2: if she can't reach into the cupboard where the cups go,

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Speaker 2: because it's up too high and she's going to have

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Speaker 2: to climb on the bench and there's a chance that

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Speaker 2: she's going to fall and break everything.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Today. This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about how to raise happy families. I'm here with Kylie,

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Speaker 2: my wife and co host, podcast partner and mum to

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Speaker 2: our six daughters. I got given a bit of grief

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Speaker 2: after something that happened on the podcast last Friday. Without

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Speaker 2: our older better tomorrow. I thought I was being a

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Speaker 2: great dad, not expecting that.

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Speaker 3: Well, we did get some feedback the guns n' roses

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Speaker 3: might not have been the best choice for motivating the kids.

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Speaker 2: So if you missed it, here's what happened. I got

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Speaker 2: cranky and I said, faed ink him. You know your

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Speaker 2: kids are ungrateful, and I'm working my backside off and

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Speaker 2: we've got bills and I'm stressed out brain and you

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Speaker 2: can't even watch some dishes. And we worked so hard

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Speaker 2: for you, and I really sort of laid the guilt on,

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Speaker 2: and then I felt bad because they all came, you know,

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Speaker 2: sullen faced into the kitchen and picked up details and

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Speaker 2: started to clean up, and I said, oh, look, music

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Speaker 2: always makes our family happier. Tonight, we're going to do

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Speaker 2: some music appreciation, which which music appreciation really means I'm

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Speaker 2: going to play music that I like and you kids

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Speaker 2: going to appreciate it. And so I put on some

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Speaker 2: guns and Roses, yes you did, which you didn't appreciate.

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Speaker 2: So I cranked up Paradise City, you know, take me

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Speaker 2: down to the parents, and I was just thinking, this

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Speaker 2: is great. And then November Rain came on and I

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Speaker 2: was rocking out to November Rain and it really lifted

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Speaker 2: my mood.

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Speaker 3: Well it did, and it actually sped the kids dishwashing

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Speaker 3: up because they wanted to get out of there as

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Speaker 3: fast as they could.

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Speaker 2: It didn't lift anybody else's everyone else was cranky as anything.

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Speaker 2: See now I don't think that that's that big of

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Speaker 2: a deal, but you know, I mean when you listen

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Speaker 2: to this, doesn't it make you feel like doing the dishes?

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Speaker 2: I mean, really, you know where this is going, so

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Speaker 2: you're loving it, you're smiling, you're into it. Bit of Gunners,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, everyone's in the kitchen having funded.

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Speaker 2: But we got feedback that somebody didn't think it would

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Speaker 2: work with their daughters with the Gunners singing Paradise City.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're not into it. You've lost I've lost, I've

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Speaker 2: completely lost year.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I had to listen to it on

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Speaker 3: Friday night in the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: Did the kitchen get tidy? That's what I want to know.

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Speaker 2: Did the kitchen get tidy?

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Speaker 3: It did take a long time.

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Speaker 2: We were dancing, We're having fun. The energy was great.

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Speaker 2: I still stand by the fact that if you get

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Speaker 2: music involved in the chores and everything that happens there,

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Speaker 2: you're always going to have a better time.

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Speaker 3: Look in your defense, you have listened to Disney Music

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Speaker 3: Channel for about I don't know, twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Part of your world the Little Mermaid, I mean high school.

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Speaker 2: I've gone through so many Disney princess songs it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: And I think it is time that you, you know,

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Speaker 3: let your hair down a little bit, all right.

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Speaker 2: So we got the feedback from somebody who said, my

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Speaker 2: kids just would not tolerate guns and roses. They'd be

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Speaker 2: out of the room and I'd be doing the kitchen

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Speaker 2: on my own, which probably isn't going to be the

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Speaker 2: worst thing in the world. But we also received some

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Speaker 2: listener feedback. Somebody just had a challenging question for us,

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Speaker 2: and I thought we'd answer that today.

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Speaker 3: Christina is from the Hills District in Northwest Sydney and

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Speaker 3: she has a tricky question for us.

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Speaker 4: Okay, guys, I've got four kids ten, eight, six, and

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Speaker 4: four and I just can't get them to do their chores.

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Speaker 4: I'm really pulling my hair out.

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Speaker 2: What have you been doing to try to get them

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Speaker 2: to do their chores?

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Speaker 4: So we've done rewards charts and pocket money incentives and

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Speaker 4: makes peter out and lose interest.

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Speaker 3: Christina, we've actually found the same thing in our family.

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Speaker 3: We had a really awesome conversation with Alfie Cone on

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Speaker 3: the podcast recently about this very thing and how rewards

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Speaker 3: just undermine our kids' intrinsic motivation to do things.

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Speaker 2: So we'll actually link to those podcasts episodes because Alfie,

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Speaker 2: world famous author has written some incredib books, including Punished

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Speaker 2: by Rewards. He actually talks about why we shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: trying rewards charts to get kids to do their chores,

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Speaker 2: so we'll link to that. We've obviously found the same

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Speaker 2: thing in our family, which is why we don't do that.

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Speaker 2: But you know what we have found does work really

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Speaker 2: well is the chor chart.

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Speaker 3: And we've tried lots of different ways of doing that

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Speaker 3: short chart, haven't we, And some.

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Speaker 2: Of it has been absolutely painful. But when you've got

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Speaker 2: a chore chart that ticks a handful of boxes, it

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Speaker 2: seems that that's going to be a more effective way

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Speaker 2: to get chores done than offering bribes and rewards and

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Speaker 2: all of the drama that's involved in trying to make

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Speaker 2: that happen. I guess it's the same sort of thing

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Speaker 2: with pocket money. We've got My very first or maybe

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Speaker 2: my second podcast episode ever was about pocket money. We'll

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Speaker 2: link to that as well in the show notes. But

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Speaker 2: if you go all the way back through the archives

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Speaker 2: to the very beginning, I've talked a lot about why

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't be linking pocket money with chores.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Scott Paper wrote the boo Barefoot investor. He disagrees with me.

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Speaker 2: He thinks that it's supposed to be linked very clearly

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Speaker 2: that you get money for having done a good job.

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Speaker 2: But for us, in our family, we found that if

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Speaker 2: you're part of the family, you do chores because you've

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Speaker 2: made the mess and now you're going to clean it up.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've eaten the dinner, so now you're going

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Speaker 2: to help clean it up, and we're not going to

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Speaker 2: pay you for that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess it only seems fair if you're going

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Speaker 3: to pay the children to do the jobs. Can I

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Speaker 3: get some money too?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind that. That'd be creative. I could get

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Speaker 2: paid for mowing my own law and I wouldn't mind

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Speaker 2: that at all. So so chor charts worked really well.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing with chort charts, we had a

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Speaker 2: conversation with our children. We sat down and had what

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Speaker 2: we would call like a family meeting, and we said, guys,

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Speaker 2: we've got to have a talk about chores. Nothing.

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Speaker 3: We have those regularly.

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Speaker 1: We do.

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Speaker 2: We have around every week, not quite but almost every week,

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Speaker 2: and we talk about chores. And we had this conversation,

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Speaker 2: it's not working. What are we going to do? So

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Speaker 2: one of the kids suggested, why don't we divide the

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Speaker 2: house into sections and each person will just be responsible

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Speaker 2: for their own section, And that worked really well for

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Speaker 2: a while. We worked out what the tasks were in

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Speaker 2: each section and they took care of that. And then

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Speaker 2: one of the others came up with another idea as well.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to rotate the chores. So, you know, one

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Speaker 3: week they looked.

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Speaker 2: After you have my section is so boring. I hate

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Speaker 2: my section. I don't want to do this job. I

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Speaker 2: want to do your job. So, yeah, they complain to me, the.

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Speaker 3: Grass is always greener on the other side, even scrubbing

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Speaker 3: the tool. It seems better than having to do whatever

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Speaker 3: their job is.

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Speaker 2: So rotating the chores based on the chor chart each

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Speaker 2: section rather than each person had a chor chart and

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Speaker 2: they would just rotate from section to section. That worked

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Speaker 2: really well for a while as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think the one that works best for

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Speaker 3: us is actually the kids each have their own chor

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Speaker 3: chart and it actually individually just lists the chores that

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Speaker 3: they are required to do every day. And it's simple

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Speaker 3: things like, you know, make your own bed and put

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Speaker 3: your clothes away, and so it's got all of those

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Speaker 3: everyday tasks as well as the jobs that they would

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Speaker 3: need to do maybe once a week some of them,

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Speaker 3: some of them are three times a week, and they

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Speaker 3: can kind of visually see it in one space instead

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Speaker 3: of having to see, Okay, well I'm doing this, but

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Speaker 3: you know my sister's doing this, and yeah, it kind

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Speaker 3: of uncomplicates it for them, and I think that that's

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Speaker 3: the one that's really worked the best.

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Speaker 2: You know, what we might do will link to the

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Speaker 2: chorre chart that we've got for each of our kids

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Speaker 2: in the show notes as well, so people who want

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Speaker 2: to download it, you're going to need PowerPoint on your

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Speaker 2: computer because we've designed in PowerPoint and there's lots of

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Speaker 2: pretty boxes and lots of pretty colors. But the children

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Speaker 2: have responded really, really well to that. As a general rule,

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Speaker 2: it's not perfect, but it's been one of the best

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Speaker 2: things that we've done. There's a couple of other things

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Speaker 2: that we've done that I think will change the game

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Speaker 2: for every family when it comes to chores, and a

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Speaker 2: couple of principles that underlie getting the chores right. So

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Speaker 2: that we can help Christine and everyone else with this challenge.

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Speaker 3: Can we talk about that after the road.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: For a happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 3: a happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au. It's the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time poor parent

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Speaker 2: who just wants answers. Now we're talking chores and how

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Speaker 2: to get the kids to get stuff done. We've got

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Speaker 2: a couple of absolute winners, things that invariably lead to success.

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Speaker 3: My favorite is the ten minute tidy.

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Speaker 2: So describe the ten minute tidy for the uninitiated. I

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Speaker 2: love it as well. It's always a winner for our family.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry, not always, but ninety nine percent of the

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Speaker 2: time it just works well.

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Speaker 3: The great thing about the ten minute tidy is it

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Speaker 3: has a limit. It has a time limit to it,

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Speaker 3: and so the kids know they have ten minutes. And

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Speaker 3: the way we've actually timed that ten minutes and it's

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Speaker 3: you know, it's not true ten minutes.

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Speaker 2: It's rough.

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Speaker 3: It's a rough. It's three songs. So we line up

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Speaker 3: our top three energizer bunny songs that we can listen

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Speaker 3: to and we pump that music at full blast.

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Speaker 2: The neighbors hate it when we're doing our ten minute

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Speaker 2: tighty because it's loud, and you know, every now and again,

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Speaker 2: I get a bit sneaky. And because I used to

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Speaker 2: be a radio and azer, I know how long a

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Speaker 2: lot of the really good songs are, and so I'll

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Speaker 2: be like, Amanda is not going to get done in

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Speaker 2: ten minutes, so I'll put in like an eight minute song.

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Speaker 3: You have done that once.

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Speaker 2: It's just three songs, guys, but one of those songs

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Speaker 2: goes for eight minutes. That guarantees we're going to get

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Speaker 2: at least fifteen minutes of good quality tiding so and

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Speaker 2: I think that highlights something else, and that is that music.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we were talking about guns and Roses before.

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Speaker 2: Maybe guns and Roses isn't for everybody, and to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I'm not even that into them anymore. But what it

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Speaker 2: does do is it provides a level of energy and

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Speaker 2: it brings everyone together and it creates fun around the chores,

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Speaker 2: and the chores get done because we're number one together,

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Speaker 2: number two having fun, and number three we've got the music.

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Speaker 2: So that's one of the strategies that we use that

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Speaker 2: really works tremendously well.

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Speaker 3: And my number two favorite is all in and the

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Speaker 3: one thing I love about all in is that there's

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Speaker 3: actually no time limit to it, and it always includes

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Speaker 3: music because we put the music on and there's just

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Speaker 3: an energy that comes with music. But all in means

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Speaker 3: that everybody just chips in until the job's done. And

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Speaker 3: most of the time all in is our dinner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've did it, very very rarely invoked the all

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Speaker 2: in cry, except straight after dinner, and the kids just

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Speaker 2: know we'll be having dinner or we having our evening conversation,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll let everyone know, hey, guys, once dinner's done,

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Speaker 2: it's all in. And there's a couple of kids that

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Speaker 2: roll their eyes like boh, and then you know, as

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Speaker 2: soon as dinner's over, at least two of them always

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Speaker 2: have to go to the bathroom right then, at least

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Speaker 2: at least two, But they always sort of come back

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Speaker 2: because there's music and there's conversation and it's all in

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Speaker 2: and the tables cleared and the benches are clear, and

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Speaker 2: the dishes are put away and all in again getting

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Speaker 2: chores done. When you're doing it in a united way,

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Speaker 2: when people are all together, it just makes it happen.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't work for everybody all the time. You can't

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Speaker 2: always do it like that. But when you can, my goodness,

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Speaker 2: it makes a difference.

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Speaker 3: And what I love about it the most is that

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Speaker 3: even though every now and again, let's face it, lots

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Speaker 3: of times there's one or two cranky children in the process,

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Speaker 3: there are conversations that just happen as we work side

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Speaker 3: by side that wouldn't have And if you put the

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Speaker 3: kids to bed so that you could have some quiet

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Speaker 3: time at the sink or just.

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Speaker 2: Staring at the TV watching some Netflix or whatever, it

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Speaker 2: might be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've really loved it watching the kids kind

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Speaker 3: of connect in that space as they work side by side.

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Speaker 3: And I really love watching the kids connect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the challenges that we

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Speaker 2: have is that the house gets messy through the week

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Speaker 2: and even though we've got chores happening and we're trying

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Speaker 2: to stay on top of it, by the time we

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Speaker 2: get to the weekend, the reality is it's not at

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Speaker 2: the standard that we wish that it could be. The

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Speaker 2: weekend tidy is a really big deal, and we try

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Speaker 2: to do it not too often, but it has to

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Speaker 2: be done from time to time. But we've also sacrificed

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Speaker 2: so many Saturday mornings to the God of clean surfaces,

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Speaker 2: and I just don't really like worshiping it that altar,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like Saturday is meant to

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Speaker 2: be to the extent that it's possible. I know, not

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Speaker 2: everyone can. Some people have got to work on Saturdays,

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Speaker 2: and we've been there for years as well. But most

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Speaker 2: of the time now we get Saturdays off, and yet

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Speaker 2: we still find ourselves cleaning. So what have we done

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Speaker 2: that you can think of that's actually been really great

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Speaker 2: for getting the big clean done on the weekend.

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Speaker 3: I think the most important thing when it comes to

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Speaker 3: a weekend clean is having a time frame and telling

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Speaker 3: the kids, all right, we've got a couple of really

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Speaker 3: big jobs. If we all knuckle down and work together,

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Speaker 3: we'll have this done in an hour, two hours, whatever

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Speaker 3: it is that you deem is appropriate, and then you

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Speaker 3: actually honor that. I think that's the most important. This

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Speaker 3: is their kids. This is the kid's weekend as much

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Speaker 3: as it's yours. And if we just get so narrow minded,

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Speaker 3: and you know.

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Speaker 2: I've got to finish the game. I've done the garage,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do the shed. And while you know,

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Speaker 2: while I'm doing the shed, you're inside doing the bedrooms.

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Speaker 2: And the scrubbing the walls, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: it's become an entire spring clean. That's not fair.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we lose the positive vibe that can come

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Speaker 3: from working together. It becomes a real drain on everybody.

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Speaker 3: And the reality is after a big week for all

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Speaker 3: of us, we actually need some downtime. I think it's

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Speaker 3: really important for us as families to recognize that. And

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Speaker 3: so the things that have worked really well for us

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Speaker 3: as we've given a time limit, we've told the kids

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Speaker 3: in advance.

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Speaker 2: So they here are the chores we're doing in that time.

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Speaker 2: And if we don't get it all done, we don't.

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Speaker 2: But you've got to work honestly during that time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And we don't wake them up with the list,

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Speaker 3: so they know before they go to bed the night

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Speaker 3: before that tomorrow morning, Mum and Dad are going to

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Speaker 3: wake you up at this time. We're going to work

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Speaker 3: hard and fast.

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Speaker 2: We're all in the garden. We're going to pull the

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Speaker 2: weeds for an hour and then we're going to go

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Speaker 2: and have fun.

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Speaker 3: And that's it. It's the fun at the other end.

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Speaker 3: So whether it be you know, milkshakes for everybody or

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Speaker 3: head down to the beach. I think that it's really

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Speaker 3: important that we just give ourselves that time to rejuvenate.

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Speaker 2: In spite of all of the ideas that we've just shared,

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Speaker 2: all of the tips and tricks, it can still be

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Speaker 2: tricky and sometimes you can't get chores happening together. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's not convenient playing music. Sometimes the things that we've

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Speaker 2: shared won't work. Sometimes even the chor chart doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: And I think that there are three key principles that

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Speaker 2: we always need to remember when it comes to chores. First, one,

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Speaker 2: have a family meeting with the kids, like actually sit

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Speaker 2: down and talk about it, work it out together, and

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Speaker 2: explain what you expect, but then listen to them and

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Speaker 2: explore their world and then empower them to come up

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Speaker 2: with a solution.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's key involving them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the more involved the children are and putting together

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Speaker 2: the chore charts or the chores lists or the plans

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Speaker 2: for chores, the more likely it is that they'll stick.

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Speaker 2: The second critical thing consistency. So we've built chor charts

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Speaker 2: over the years, but if we don't stay on it

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Speaker 2: on a daily and a weekly basis, it kind of

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Speaker 2: falls in a heap, right, Yeah, And two weeks ago

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Speaker 2: and by and we're like, nobody's cleaned the toilet, what's

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Speaker 2: going on? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Can I guess what number three is?

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Speaker 4: Then?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Accountability?

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Speaker 2: Well, accountability and consistency are kind of the same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, be consistent in your expectation and be consistent

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Speaker 2: in keeping the kids accountable, because if you don't do that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're on the right line. The other thing I was

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Speaker 2: going to say for number three, though, is make sure

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Speaker 2: that the tasks are developmentally appropriate, because there's no point

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Speaker 2: asking the six year old one pack the dishwasher if

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Speaker 2: she can't reach into the cupboard where the cups go

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Speaker 2: because it's up too high and she's going to have

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Speaker 2: to climb on the bench and there's a chance that

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Speaker 2: she's going to fall and break everything, and you know

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Speaker 2: they'll be blood or anything. We want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that the tasks that we're giving the children are developmentally appropriate.

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Speaker 3: But the six year old actually loves scrubbing.

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Speaker 2: The toilet, who wouldn't have thought. And then of course

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Speaker 2: we've got our ten year old who has a really

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Speaker 2: big sook because she wants to mow the lawn, but

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Speaker 2: she's actually not quite big enough to manage the lawnmower

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Speaker 2: at this point, and so the thirteen year old and

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Speaker 2: he's like, that's my job.

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Speaker 3: So she's never actually pushed the lawnmower in ash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so chores are a bit of a challenge. But Christina,

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Speaker 2: we hope that that's been really helpful. We really hope

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Speaker 2: that you enjoy the podcast and they get loads out

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Speaker 2: of it. If you do, could you please jump onto

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review so that

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Speaker 2: everyone else can find out about the podcast and we

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Speaker 2: can spread the wood and help everyone to make their

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Speaker 2: families happier. We really appreciate the good work done by

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Speaker 2: Justin Rulan from Bridge Media who produces the podcast, and

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Speaker 2: our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like more

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Speaker 2: information about how to make your families happier flourishing, all

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00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 2: you need to do is jump onto the Happy Famili's

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Speaker 2: website look up everything that you can find about the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families memberships. We think you'll find them amazing. The

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Speaker 2: details or at happy families dot com dot au