WEBVTT - That time the White House texted a journalist its war plans

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 3>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 3>the twenty seventh of March. I'm Zara Seidler.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Sam Kozlowski.

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<v Speaker 3>Earlier this week, the White House confirmed that a journalist

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<v Speaker 3>was accidentally added to a group chat where a number

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<v Speaker 3>of the most senior defense officials were discussing a planned

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<v Speaker 3>strike against the Houthi rebel group in Yemen. The Atlantics

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<v Speaker 3>editor in chief revealed in an exclusive article that he

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<v Speaker 3>was accidentally added to the signal group earlier this month,

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<v Speaker 3>which included Vice President JD Vance and Trump's National Security advisor.

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<v Speaker 2>I am so pumped to get into this story.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a medi one.

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<v Speaker 2>This is one that the Netflix producers are queuing up

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<v Speaker 2>to try and figure out.

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<v Speaker 1>Certainly some commissioning of new pieces.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to be amazing. But I do want to

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<v Speaker 2>start by fully understanding how all of this happened, because

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of not only somebody being added to a

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<v Speaker 2>grip chat where they're discussing what we're going to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you about, but it being the editor of a huge

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<v Speaker 2>news outlet in America is wild. So This story begins

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<v Speaker 2>on Tuesday, March eleven. Yeah, why is that day important?

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<v Speaker 3>So that's the day that Jeffrey Goldberg says that he

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<v Speaker 3>was first sent a connection request on Signal from someone

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<v Speaker 3>called Michael Woltz.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's a few characters there.

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to say, that might sound like gibberish

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<v Speaker 3>to a lot of our listeners, So let's just unpack

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<v Speaker 3>it one by one. So let's start with Jeffrey Goldberg.

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<v Speaker 3>So Jeffrey Goldberg is the editor in chief of the Atlantic, which,

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<v Speaker 3>as you just mentioned, is an American media company known

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<v Speaker 3>mostly for magazines. He is the person who received a

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<v Speaker 3>request on Signal, which is a messaging app that has

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<v Speaker 3>a kind of higher level of security than, for example, texting.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of journalists are on because it's a secure

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<v Speaker 3>way for them to communicate with sources and to get scoops.

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<v Speaker 1>And on that day he got a fairly random request.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a Tuesday, a couple of weeks ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>the editor of The Atlantic gets a notification saying that

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<v Speaker 2>there was a request coming through that he'd be added

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<v Speaker 2>to a group. Ye who actually sent that request?

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<v Speaker 3>So that request came from a user called Michael Waltz. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>just for context, Michael Waltz is President Donald Trump's national

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<v Speaker 3>security advisor, and so naturally, when Goldberg, who is a journalist,

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<v Speaker 3>received the request.

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<v Speaker 2>He thought it was fake, as we would, to be

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<v Speaker 2>honest with you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, he said, and I'll quote directly from

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<v Speaker 3>the article. I would implore anyone listening to go read

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<v Speaker 3>that article. It is incredibly well written and a very

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<v Speaker 3>good read. But he says, and I quote here, Trump's

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<v Speaker 3>contentious relationship with journalists and Trump's periodic fixation on me

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<v Speaker 3>specifically was what built this doubt that the request was real.

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<v Speaker 3>But regardless of the hesitations, Goldberg said he accepted the

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<v Speaker 3>request and hoped that Waltz, who as I said, is

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<v Speaker 3>Trump security advisor, wanted to talk to him about Ukraine

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<v Speaker 3>or Iran or as he said, some other important matter.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really interesting. So his initial gut feel after he

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<v Speaker 2>entertained whether it was false, was maybe this guy's a source.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe this guy could be leaking something to me. So

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<v Speaker 2>he accepts the message, but then it definitely does not

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<v Speaker 2>go in the way that he expected.

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<v Speaker 3>No, So after that, Goldberg receives a notification that he's

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<v Speaker 3>been added to a signal group Chat.

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<v Speaker 1>That group chat is called the Huthy PC Small Group.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have talked about the Huthis number of times

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<v Speaker 2>on this pod, but for people coming in fresh, give

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<v Speaker 2>me a sense of who the Houthis are.

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<v Speaker 3>So, the Huthis are an Iran backed group based out

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<v Speaker 3>of Yemen. They've been fighting in a civil war in

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<v Speaker 3>Yemen since twenty fourteen. Hoothy forces control parts of the country,

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<v Speaker 3>and Yemen specifically borders the Red Sea, which is a

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<v Speaker 3>popular trade route for international commercial vessels, accounting for roughly

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<v Speaker 3>twelve percent of global trade. Importantly, since just after October

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty three, the Houthis have been launching these kind

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<v Speaker 3>of sporadic attacks on military and commercial ships in the

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<v Speaker 3>Red Sea, as well as directly at Israel and ships

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<v Speaker 3>linked to Israel. The UN has previously said that these

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<v Speaker 3>attacks are designed to support Hummas.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the US have had the Houthis in their

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<v Speaker 2>line of sight for a while now, particularly since October

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three. And so that group chat name the

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<v Speaker 2>houthy PC Small Group. Yeah, how is that actually connected

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<v Speaker 2>to the Hoothies.

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<v Speaker 3>So apparently the houthy PC Small Group was, as we

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<v Speaker 3>later found out a chat designed to pull together a

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<v Speaker 3>group of the most senior decision makers in the US

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<v Speaker 3>to coordinate an impending US attack on the Houthis in Yemen.

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<v Speaker 2>Which we reported on. So this is like this really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting thing reading this story knowing that we actually covered that.

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<v Speaker 1>We covered the attack. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And so in this article, Goldberg says that the group

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<v Speaker 3>was created by Waltz, the Advisor, and he says that

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<v Speaker 3>the group chat members as they were were VP jd Vance,

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<v Speaker 3>Secretary of State Marco Rubio, National Intelligence head Telsey Gabbard,

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<v Speaker 3>and a whole string.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I could list off.

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<v Speaker 3>All of them, but I just want you to understand

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<v Speaker 3>they were really really senior people here.

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<v Speaker 2>And so basically this group was assembled on signal to

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<v Speaker 2>plan how the US was going to attack the who

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<v Speaker 2>he's in Yemen. Yeah, I mean it's the main point

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<v Speaker 2>of communication almost. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So it wasn't even just how they were going to attack,

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<v Speaker 3>but whether or not they should attack. All of that

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<v Speaker 3>kind of as we understand it now played out in

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<v Speaker 3>this group message. So the article that Goldberg wrote included

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<v Speaker 3>some of the bits of the chat that he believed

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<v Speaker 3>were important to report on. He did leave out sensitive

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<v Speaker 3>kind of national security things like CIA officials names and

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<v Speaker 3>things like that. So we don't have a full picture,

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<v Speaker 3>but what we do understand is that there was this

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<v Speaker 3>kind of to and fro about whether or not to

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<v Speaker 3>attack the Hoothies and some emojis and some emojis, So

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<v Speaker 3>we understand that JD. Vance, as I said, the Vice

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<v Speaker 3>President was questioning in that chat, whether attacking the Hoothies

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<v Speaker 3>was a mistake. He was saying things like Europe would

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<v Speaker 3>benefit more than the US, and he said, I just

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<v Speaker 3>hate bailing Europe out again. But then, according to Goldberg,

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<v Speaker 3>the text debate, so people were debating whether or not

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<v Speaker 3>this should happen, but it ultimately ended when Trump's deputy

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<v Speaker 3>chief of Staff, Stephen Miller wrote, as I understand it,

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<v Speaker 3>the President was clear green light. And then the following day,

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<v Speaker 3>US Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth sent a message titled

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<v Speaker 3>Team Update, reportedly detailing strike targets, weapons, and operational plans.

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<v Speaker 2>And so Goldberg gets all of these messages. He's still

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<v Speaker 2>in the group. Yeah, it's evident from the chat that

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<v Speaker 2>nobody's actually noticed that he's in the group. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 2>things really, I did.

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<v Speaker 1>Ask you if you would notice if there was some

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<v Speaker 1>one in a group chat and you told.

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<v Speaker 2>Me that you would, I think I would. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like I would know, especially if there was some serious

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<v Speaker 2>sort of confidential information being passed around. You'd hope that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this wasn't a group of hundreds and hundreds, No,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a select group. Nonetheless, they didn't know Goldberg

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<v Speaker 2>was there by this point. But the contents of the

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<v Speaker 2>message is really escalated, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So Goldberg writes in his article that after he read

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<v Speaker 3>that message about those operational plans, things that included like

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<v Speaker 3>timings and what was going.

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<v Speaker 1>To happen, he really started to believe that the group

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<v Speaker 1>was real for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. So he was still thinking that this could have

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<v Speaker 2>been fake.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think every journalist has a healthy kind

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<v Speaker 3>of skepticism built into them, and that was very active here.

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<v Speaker 3>He wrote that the last message implied that the attacks

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<v Speaker 3>on the Huthies would start two hours after that last message,

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<v Speaker 3>and so he sat, he said, in a car park,

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<v Speaker 3>and he waited, and then at one fifty five pm

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<v Speaker 3>local time, ten minutes after the attack was planned according

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<v Speaker 3>to that last message, Goldberg said, he logged onto x

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<v Speaker 3>and he saw that lo and behold, explosions were being

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<v Speaker 3>heard across Yemen's capital city. He says at that point

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<v Speaker 3>he checked the signal channel and said he read messages

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<v Speaker 3>calling the attacks an amazing job, a good start. And

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<v Speaker 3>as you mentioned earlier, there were a few emojis that

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<v Speaker 3>went alongside those messages, and so.

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<v Speaker 2>To bring things from the group chat into the real world,

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<v Speaker 2>we know that these attacks on who he targets in

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<v Speaker 2>Yemen have continued this week. Yeah, and that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>brings us to today. And while we're talking about not

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<v Speaker 2>only the release of this group chat and Goldberg's piece,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the actual US activity in Yemen, Jeffrey Goldberg

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<v Speaker 2>published this amazing article on Monday. What's the response been

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<v Speaker 2>since then? Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>So at the end of Goldberg's article, he basically explains

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<v Speaker 3>the steps that he took then to verifying the story itself.

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<v Speaker 3>So he says that he left the chat, and then

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<v Speaker 3>shortly after leaving the chat, he says he can't believe

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<v Speaker 3>no one even noticed that he then left the chat

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<v Speaker 3>let alone.

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<v Speaker 1>Was in it to begin with.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny for me because you get then he was

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<v Speaker 2>saying that there's a line that emerges in the group

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<v Speaker 2>chat saying, yeah, his phone number has left the chat. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>But he says that after he left, he contacted some

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<v Speaker 3>of the officials in the group directly and he asked

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<v Speaker 3>them to confirm whether or.

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<v Speaker 1>Not the group was real.

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<v Speaker 3>He says that a spokesperson for the National Security Council

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<v Speaker 3>responded to him directly and ultimately confirmed the veracity of

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<v Speaker 3>the group. The spokesperson said, and I quote here, this

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<v Speaker 3>appears to be an authentic message chain, and we are

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<v Speaker 3>reviewing how an inadvertent number was added to the chain.

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<v Speaker 3>Then on Monday, after this expose was published, we did

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<v Speaker 3>have the White House come out and publicly confirm again

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<v Speaker 3>that the group was authentic.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that all happened on Monday. We're now sitting

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<v Speaker 2>here on Thursday morning. How has the president but also

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<v Speaker 2>his administration more broadly responded to what is one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most significant pieces of journalism I think in yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the last couple of years at least.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, So, so the administration has downplayed the incident. They

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<v Speaker 3>called the chat a sign of deep and thoughtful policy coordination.

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<v Speaker 3>So rather than I guess, focusing on the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>there was a journalist who was accidentally added to it,

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<v Speaker 3>they're more focusing on the to and fro that were

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<v Speaker 3>in these messages about how they were discussing approaching the

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<v Speaker 3>issue of the who thy's.

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<v Speaker 1>But then inside of that, it does seem like Mike Waltz,

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<v Speaker 1>who again.

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<v Speaker 3>Was the person who added Jeffrey Golberg to the group,

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<v Speaker 3>that he has taken most of the blame here. He

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<v Speaker 3>has taken full responsibility at the time of recording. He

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<v Speaker 3>has not stepped down, however, and we understand that he

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<v Speaker 3>still has the support of the president. In terms of

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<v Speaker 3>the president himself, Trump has denied knowledge of the chat,

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<v Speaker 3>and again there was nothing in that chat that implied

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<v Speaker 3>that he would have known about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But we do know it.

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<v Speaker 3>As I said a bit earlier, that Jade Vance was

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<v Speaker 3>in that conversation perhaps taking a different position to the

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<v Speaker 3>President when it came to how to respond to the

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<v Speaker 3>who thies. Since that time, Events spokesperson has insisted that

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<v Speaker 3>he fully supports the President's policies. Of course, if we

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<v Speaker 3>go to the other side of the aisle, the Democrats

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<v Speaker 3>have been very vocal in their condemnation of what happened here.

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<v Speaker 3>We had a member of the Armed Services Committee calling

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<v Speaker 3>it one of the most egregious failures of operational security

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<v Speaker 3>and common sense that I have ever seen.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not just those in Congress and the House

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<v Speaker 2>that are condemning this. I mean, you've got Hillary Clinton,

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<v Speaker 2>who was famously brought into a serious leak of her

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<v Speaker 2>own emails that had confidential information. Arguably some would say

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<v Speaker 2>that ended her prospects of becoming president because of the

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<v Speaker 2>way it was used so effectively by President Trump in

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<v Speaker 2>the debates. She tweeted, You've got to be kidding me,

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<v Speaker 2>and so there's a lot of anger around. Interestingly, the

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.280
<v Speaker 2>House and Senate Intelligence committees were scheduled to meet anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>and so those hearings over the last couple of days

0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.719
<v Speaker 2>have turned into an interrogation of these key figures. What

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<v Speaker 2>did you know and when? Zara A really amazing story,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when you think of how many things have had

0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to come together to make this story happen. Thank you

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.319
<v Speaker 2>for taking us through it. And we'll be tracking this

0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.199
<v Speaker 2>one because I don't think this is the last we're

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:15.959
<v Speaker 2>hearing of it. And that's all we've got time for

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.599
<v Speaker 2>on today's edition of The Daily OS. If you enjoyed it,

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the best thing you can do to help us as

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.760
<v Speaker 2>an independent media company is to shoot this to a friend.

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.840
<v Speaker 2>This is a really interesting story and we think you've

0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 2>got a friend who might like it. We'll be back

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.599
<v Speaker 2>again with your headlines in the afternoon. Until then, have

0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:37.079
<v Speaker 2>a great date. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:41.559
<v Speaker 2>a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadigol Country. The

0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.440
<v Speaker 2>lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.839
<v Speaker 2>respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and present.