1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: It's time for the week that was in Central Australia

2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: representing today. We have got Robin Lamley in the studio.

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,799
Speaker 1: Good morning, lovely to have you in the studio. We've

4
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: got Steve Edgington joining us from Tenant Creek this morning.

5
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: Good morning in the studio.

6
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,600
Speaker 2: In the studio, the Barkley is separate.

7
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,639
Speaker 3: And we've got Chancey Paike in the studio as well.

8
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,479
Speaker 4: Good morning, Good morning Katie. And it is great to

9
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 4: be here with members who are all from the South.

10
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

11
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: Do you know what, I actually love it when Parliament's

12
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 1: on because I get a whole different lineup for the

13
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,239
Speaker 1: week that was, So it is.

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 3: I've got to be diplomatic.

15
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 1: Chancey.

16
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm going to say everyone's my favorite on the panel.

17
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 3: I can't have favorites.

18
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:48,200
Speaker 4: Now.

19
00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: It has been an incredibly busy week for you guys

20
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: in Parliament. We know that overnight the Government passed the

21
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,840
Speaker 1: long awaited Anti Discrimination Amendment Bill, delivering on a key

22
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 1: election promise to re store balance.

23
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 3: To NT laws. Is what they've said now.

24
00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,680
Speaker 1: The Attorney General Mary Clare Boothby saying the changes strike

25
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: as sensible middle ground protecting territorians from genuine harm, while

26
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,759
Speaker 1: upholding free speech and religious freedom. She says the bill

27
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 1: restores the right of faith based schools to higher stuff

28
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 1: based on religious beliefs and introduces a new incitement model

29
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: for vilification, replacing Labour's previous laws seen as overly broad.

30
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 3: I mean, what do we make of it.

31
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,320
Speaker 1: I know that there has been a lot of discussion

32
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 1: about this over recent weeks, some with serious concerns that

33
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,920
Speaker 1: it's you know, that we are going to see you know,

34
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: more people discriminated against. I guess for me, I've always

35
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 1: been quite concerned from a real freedom of speech perspective,

36
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: and I like to think I'm pretty careful about what

37
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: I say and what I don't say, and I certainly

38
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,560
Speaker 1: do not want to be somebody who's inciting hate in

39
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. But you know, it has

40
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: always concerned me a little bit, the freedom of speech,

41
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 1: making sure that people do still have that freedom to

42
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,920
Speaker 1: speak freely, but to be respectful and you know, to

43
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: not be discriminating against anybody based on well, any attributes

44
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: that might make them different.

45
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 2: Oh exactly, And Katie, yesterday in Parliament we passed the

46
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 2: anti discrimination legislation and as we said, right from the

47
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 2: very outset our commitment was to restore freedoms of speech

48
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,440
Speaker 2: and religion, and that's exactly what we've done. There is

49
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 2: a balance between fairness and common sense for Territorians and

50
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,639
Speaker 2: when it comes to those religious schools, what we've done

51
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 2: is restored protections for religious schools which was removed by

52
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:39,799
Speaker 2: Labour back in twenty twenty two.

53
00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 1: Jasy, I remember you and I having some fairly you know,

54
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,959
Speaker 1: what would you say, robust, hardy discussions when those laws

55
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: did change. I mean, how are you now feeling about

56
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,320
Speaker 1: some of that being reversed.

57
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,959
Speaker 4: Look, Katie, I guess I want to just start by

58
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 4: acknowledging that there's always a difference of opinion of ideas.

59
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,240
Speaker 4: But yes, today I think Parliament was quite respectful in

60
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 4: that debate. I felt I felt that, yeah, there's a

61
00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 4: difference of opinion, there's a difference of ideas. I and

62
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 4: my party never felt that the freedom of his speech

63
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 4: had been curtailed. The COLP last night, you know, came

64
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,919
Speaker 4: into Parliament spoke about it. The law has been passed

65
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 4: or it's changed, it's a waiting to go to the administrator.

66
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 6: Now.

67
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 4: Look, I think, yeah, it's a difference of ideas. We

68
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 4: had a different model. The government now have moved to

69
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 4: a model where they're saying, in terms of the vilification provisions,

70
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 4: it needs to incite, which is different to what we had.

71
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 4: But look, the legislation has passed. One of the biggest

72
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 4: critiques though, I think from members in the community, was

73
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,760
Speaker 4: the proposed changes weren't actively consulted when a draft bill

74
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 4: came back to Parliament.

75
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 1: Can I ask, because I know people listening this morning

76
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: will probably be asking the same thing, is you know

77
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 1: in terms of that insight, like what does that mean

78
00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 1: for the everyday Joe blow listening this morning.

79
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know, from my perspective, inciting is going out

80
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,520
Speaker 2: there and deliberately inciting that hatred amongst people. And I

81
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 2: think that's about being that outspoken, intentional getting out there

82
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 2: and inciting that hatred. But that's what we've done. We've

83
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 2: changed it to ensure that anybody that incites hatred, serious

84
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 2: contempt or severe ridicule will be subject to this particular provision.

85
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 2: But I think you know, when it comes back to

86
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 2: all of the consultation, what we clearly were able to

87
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,719
Speaker 2: say is that we have been out The Attorney General

88
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,720
Speaker 2: made it very clear that there has been extensive consultation.

89
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the Member for Guajo, a chance

90
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,960
Speaker 2: he is here today, asked the very question last night,

91
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 2: and the Attorney General was very clear that there was

92
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 2: extensive consultation about these changes.

93
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 5: What Labor brought in, what your government, the former Labor

94
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,839
Speaker 5: government bought in, Chancey a few years ago, was just

95
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 5: taking it too far. It was too extreme and in

96
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 5: my view, it was too radical. So from my perspective,

97
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,479
Speaker 5: what the new Colp government have done last night is

98
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 5: bring it back to a more middle position. It's more moderate,

99
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 5: but it still is a robust piece of legislation and

100
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,159
Speaker 5: I am satisfied that it will protect minority groups. It

101
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 5: will protect all the groups that Chancey listed last night,

102
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 5: Aboriginal people, the rainbow sector, disabled people, from the multicultural community.

103
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 5: But I think, truly, Chancey, I think one of the

104
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 5: reasons why you guys lost government a year ago was

105
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 5: because of the legislation you bought in a few years

106
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,479
Speaker 5: ago on anti discrimination. I think it would have to

107
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 5: be in the top five of the reasons why Labor

108
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 5: got booted out because it was too extreme and too radical.

109
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,440
Speaker 4: I think, Katie, I think it's important for people who

110
00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 4: are listening today who might not believe a politician the

111
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 4: Anti Discrimination Commissions put out some really amazing fact sheets

112
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,600
Speaker 4: just to talk to people about what the law was currently,

113
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 4: what the changes mean following today, So you know, you

114
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 4: don't have to believe us the Anti Discrimination Commission has.

115
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,880
Speaker 4: That's his a peek in too, you know, and that's

116
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 4: based on the interpretation of the current law, the law

117
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 4: as it's changed, and based on the Australian jurisdictions around

118
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:24,560
Speaker 4: the place.

119
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 5: So see, when you talk about this stuff anti discrimination legislation,

120
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 5: you're talking about one of the clear topics that will

121
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,640
Speaker 5: always have a very left leaning and possibly you know,

122
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 5: and a right leaning and never the twains shall meet.

123
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,680
Speaker 5: And we saw that last night in Parliament or the

124
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 5: left leaning politicians stood up and had a very what

125
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 5: I would call a fairly extreme view on where we

126
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 5: should be sitting in terms of this legislation. The Government

127
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 5: is bringing it back from there. They could have gone further.

128
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,200
Speaker 5: The Attorney General talked about how the Christian lobby wanted

129
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 5: them to go further, but they didn't. I think this

130
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,919
Speaker 5: is just where exactly where it should be, and it

131
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 5: will meet the expectations of most people exactly.

132
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 2: And I think exactly what Robin's saying, I think we've

133
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 2: met the middle ground. And I think that came out

134
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 2: of the discussion yesterday is that we have met the

135
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 2: middle ground, and I think looking at it from all

136
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 2: different angles, I think there is a real good balance there,

137
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: and certainly from a religious schools perspective, it now gives

138
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: parents a choice and it also gives clarity to the

139
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 2: religious schools how they want to implement this, and it

140
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 2: gives the opportunity to put in place policy for each

141
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: particular religious faith on how they're going to make it.

142
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 4: The one thing that is important is again a number

143
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 4: of us in the Parliament might not represent the minority

144
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 4: groups that will be affected. So what is important is

145
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 4: the legislation that Labor had passed, had been in for

146
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 4: two years, we had not seen an increase in complaints

147
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 4: or had not been reportable people who had had their

148
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 4: liberty infringed on. But moving forward, what we have to

149
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 4: look at now as an opposition and as a parliament

150
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 4: is the legislation moving forward and the number of complaints

151
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 4: if there are or matters that are interested, which will

152
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 4: tell us whether it is working or not, and whether

153
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 4: people in our community from particular sectors or community groups

154
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 4: are feeling that the change has worked or hasn't worked,

155
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 4: because we're sometimes not best placed to make those evaluations

156
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,560
Speaker 4: on has it or hasn't it worked. But tonight you

157
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 4: know it did pass last night. That's what it is.

158
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 4: Will now as a community work forward and see how

159
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 4: that unfolds.

160
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,559
Speaker 1: Well, we'll move along to comments made by the Chief

161
00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 1: Minister on this show earlier in the week.

162
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 3: Now. Earlier in the week, I'd.

163
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 1: Interviewed the Chief Minister as I do on a Monday

164
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: morning and had asked her about a letter that was

165
00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 1: sent to the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezy also sent to

166
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 1: the other Premiers and Chief Ministers around the nation. Now.

167
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: It came from the Women's Forum of Australia and wrote to,

168
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: as I said, the Prime Minister and the other leaders, saying,

169
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 1: I write with profound concern for the safety and dignity

170
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 1: of women incarcerated in our nation's prisons.

171
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 3: Now. It followed a series.

172
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 1: Of what were described as deeply troubling cases that have

173
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 1: come to light across multiple jurisdictions, which involve male offenders

174
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 1: who identify as women being housed in female facilities. Now

175
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,560
Speaker 1: the letter went through a number of different incidents, including

176
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,200
Speaker 1: one that was published in the Australian newspaper on Friday

177
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 1: last week from South Australia where inside the Portagusta Prison,

178
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 1: which accommodates both male and female offenders, a female prisoner

179
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: was failed in every way imaginable. The letter states by

180
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 1: the state's correctional services. She was placed in a cell

181
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 1: with a notoriously violent trans identified male offender who was

182
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 1: subjected and was I should say subjected to a horrific

183
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 1: section assault by that person. Now we then, as I said,

184
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,360
Speaker 1: ask the Chief Minister about this. On Monday, she said

185
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: female prisoners should have female prisons should have women only,

186
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 1: and that the Country Liberal Party had taken a practical,

187
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,719
Speaker 1: common sense approach to the debate. She said, at the

188
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 1: end of the day, if you're born a bloke, you're

189
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,839
Speaker 1: going to a men's prison and we'll deal with you there. Now.

190
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: As I said, it comes following on from that letter

191
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 1: that was written to her and others by the Women's

192
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 1: Forum of Australia, the Chief Minister saying anti prisons prisoners

193
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 1: who were assigned male at birth and now identified as

194
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 1: female would be sent to men's prisons even if they

195
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 1: had transitioned. Now, I've got to say a lot of

196
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,760
Speaker 1: support for the Chief Minister in terms of the public saying, well,

197
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: that seems to make sense. You know, we want women

198
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: to be safe when they are incarcerated. We want them

199
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 1: safe in whatever situation they are in. Now, I am

200
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 1: not suggesting in any way, shape or form that a

201
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: transper just because somebody is a transperson that they're going

202
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 1: to be violent. That is certainly not the suggestion that's

203
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,520
Speaker 1: being made here. But she was specifically asked about some

204
00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 1: pretty dangerous scenarios and responded that it was not the

205
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,360
Speaker 1: government policy to have trans people or trans women in

206
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 1: female prisons. I mean, what did everybody make of the

207
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 1: comments from the Chief Arisita?

208
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 5: I agree with her one hundred percent. I mean, you

209
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,679
Speaker 5: can't have blokes in women's prisons and call me old fashioned,

210
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 5: but a bloke, a man is someone with a penis,

211
00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:32,600
Speaker 5: and that's.

212
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:33,319
Speaker 3: I don't think that's all.

213
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 5: And I haven't sort of gravitated away from that. It's

214
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 5: not trans issues, and transgender issues aren't something I'm overly

215
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 5: okay with. I sympathize with those group, that group, and

216
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 5: I think they have to be protected in the prison

217
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,439
Speaker 5: system too, absolutely, but I think it's unacceptable to have

218
00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 5: men blokes in women's prison And on the flip side

219
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,439
Speaker 5: of that is having women in men's prisons isn't acceptable either.

220
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, on, well that would be a dangerous scenario as well.

221
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 2: I think you know from our perspective, look, our Chief

222
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 2: Minister has made our position very clear, very very clear.

223
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 2: And I think you know when you look at those examples, Codie,

224
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 2: I think you quoted New South Wales and South Australia

225
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 2: and there was the letter from the Women's Forum of

226
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 2: Australia that was sent to the Prime Minister and copied

227
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 2: into all of the leaders across Australia. And I think

228
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 2: what we've seen is our Chief Minister get on the

229
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,839
Speaker 2: front foot, show leadership and make sure, as she said,

230
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 2: is that men going men's prisons, women going women's prisons. Now,

231
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 2: this is all about protecting women. You know, if we

232
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 2: can't have women in women's prisons at risk, we want

233
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 2: to ensure the safety of women in those women's prisons.

234
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 2: And I think, as Robin said, our Chief Minister has

235
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 2: been very clear this is a straightforward, common sense approach

236
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,320
Speaker 2: to dealing with prisoners in prisons, Chansey.

237
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,200
Speaker 1: I know there had been some comments or certainly some

238
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: discussion throughout this week in Parliament saying well, hang on,

239
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 1: the government actually haven't changed their legislation here the legislation,

240
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: I believe, I mean, has it changed. I know you

241
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 1: guys were asking some questions about it through the week.

242
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, Katie, it's not the legislation, it's the policy.

243
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:21,200
Speaker 4: So the last time the policy was amended was October

244
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 4: last year, but that was part of the machinery of

245
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 4: government changes. So as what has been available on the

246
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 4: website and publicly available, it hasn't changed since Labor was

247
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,079
Speaker 4: in government. I think when you talk and you look

248
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 4: around what is happening nationally, I think it needs to

249
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 4: be a case by case basis. I mean in the

250
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 4: Northern Territory here and I am very proud to call

251
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,680
Speaker 4: them my friends. We have brother boys and sister girls

252
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 4: predominantly from you know, the Tiwei Islands and a lot

253
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,719
Speaker 4: of our coastal communities and also down in Central Australia,

254
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,800
Speaker 4: and I stand with them in their journeys. But I

255
00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 4: think it is important when we look at what we do,

256
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 4: it needs to be done on a case by case basis,

257
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 4: and there are always measures. I absolutely have confidence in

258
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 4: the Northern Territory correctional facilities to manage those circumstances because

259
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 4: we are talking about fellow Territorians. They're not a separate

260
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 4: group of people, they are Territorians. We need to make

261
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 4: sure that everyone has the right to feel safe. And

262
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 4: when we have heard in Parliament this week that statistically

263
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 4: members of our trans communities are more often resulting in

264
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 4: domestic and family violence from you know, cisgender men, so

265
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 4: I think that we need to have a conversation here.

266
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 4: I don't think it's an either or I think that

267
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 4: we do need to do that. But I just draw

268
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 4: on the Chief Minister's comments this week saying, you know,

269
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 4: not on my watch, this is absolutely appalling. But also

270
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 4: I support trans well, that doesn't sound like you do.

271
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 1: It's a really tough one though, as a woman in

272
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 1: a lot of ways where you know, in some situations,

273
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: and I will note that there has not been any

274
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: scenario as far as I'm aware in Northern Territory prisons

275
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: where any woman has been put in an unsafe situation,

276
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, with a trans person, you know, in a

277
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 1: prison cell with a female.

278
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 3: It may have been a different scenario.

279
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure throughout the watchhouses at different times,

280
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: as they have been quite overcrowded. But you know, as

281
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: a woman, it can be a really tough situation at

282
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: times to actually sort of stand up and go all right.

283
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 3: I feel quite worried about this.

284
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 1: I do feel quite concerned, you know, that something could

285
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 1: happen here because physically and biologically, I'm actually not as

286
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 1: strong as, you know, as somebody who has grown a

287
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 1: male or who has you know, has certainly been born

288
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: a male.

289
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 3: And if I.

290
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,960
Speaker 1: Speak out, or if I say that I feel scared,

291
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 1: or if I say that I feel worried about it,

292
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really ridiculed and I'm going to be,

293
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, basically told that I'm you know that I'm not.

294
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 4: And Katie, what you're saying is absolutely allowed. What we're

295
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 4: doing right now on this show is having a respectful conversation.

296
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 4: It's not heated, there's no animation, and it's not directly

297
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 4: using hysterical language to demonize people in our trans community.

298
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 4: Right now is a healthy and a robust discussion. And look,

299
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 4: I have a completely different view to the member for

300
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 4: our LEU and the Member for Barkley. But you know,

301
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 4: I have always had absolute confidence in the correctional services

302
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 4: and I have never heard of a report in the

303
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 4: Northern Territory where women have been at risk due to

304
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 4: a transgender person in a prison system. And there are

305
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 4: mechanisms in place for women and for trans people in corrections.

306
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 4: It's not solitary confinement, but it is an element of

307
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 4: where they can be in a difference.

308
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 5: I wasn't aware of that, Chancey. That's very interesting. Can

309
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,240
Speaker 5: I just share this morning I received an email from

310
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 5: someone giving me some some facts around the incidence of

311
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 5: abuse against transgender women in the US prison system, and

312
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 5: it's horrific. They are subjected to horrific rates of sexual

313
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 5: abuse basically in male prisons. Transgender women put into male prisons,

314
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 5: so I acknowledge that that isn't the best place for

315
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 5: these people, but to put them in the women's prison

316
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 5: isn't either, So Chancey, if that's the case, and I

317
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,880
Speaker 5: wasn't aware of that, if they are separated, then that

318
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 5: is probably the solution.

319
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 4: So that corrections, Again, our commissioner has the ability to

320
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 4: make the determination. It's not it's not solitary confinement, but

321
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 4: they can I don't like using the word confined because

322
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 4: it's like putting it.

323
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 3: But if someone's going safe, they're keeping them.

324
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 4: Absolutely do that across the entire prison population, whether it's

325
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 4: a transman or a trans woman. The prison system has

326
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 4: the ability to be able to protect that.

327
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 2: And no doubt that it's happening. There's no doubt that

328
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 2: that's already happening. But the fact of the matter is

329
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 2: what we've seen, what the evidence is showing, certainly from

330
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: South Australia and New South Wales. We want women in

331
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 2: women's prisons, we want men in men's prisons. How that

332
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 2: is managed on a daily basis. In the prison, the

333
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: commissioner has the discretion to look after every prisoner. We

334
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 2: want to make sure that every prisoner is safe, but

335
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,719
Speaker 2: we want to make sure that women are safe not

336
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 2: only in prison but in the community.

337
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,160
Speaker 4: We are the Northern Territory, Katie, and we've already been

338
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 4: doing that.

339
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

340
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:34,400
Speaker 3: Looks though.

341
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: I mean when you read some of these situations that

342
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 1: have unfolded in other states, it's really horrifying stuff. It's

343
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 1: actually really horrifying stuff. There is you know, one of

344
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,360
Speaker 1: those incidents in Victoria I think was the one that

345
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 1: probably concerned me the most. That was a report in

346
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 1: the Australian. We're a TRANSI identified male offender who sexually

347
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 1: abused his own five year old daughter had been placed

348
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: into Victoria's largest women's prison. Now, Disturbingly, the court except

349
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: did arguments that the offender's gender issues and struggles with

350
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 1: transition had diminished his culpability, and that he committed the

351
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: abuse in part to be validated as a woman. I

352
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 1: just don't buy that, you know, I just think that

353
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, whether this is whether you're talking about a male,

354
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 1: a female, somebody who's transitioned, that kind of absolutely disturbing

355
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: behavior should not be accepted in any way, shape or form,

356
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 1: and we should not be excusing it in any way,

357
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 1: shape or form. Like I said, I don't care where

358
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,479
Speaker 1: you come from or you know what your background is,

359
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: but we with certainly with violence against a child.

360
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 3: There is to me, there's no exception.

361
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cody, the upshot is our Chief Minister has shown

362
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,439
Speaker 2: the leadership that's necessary, and I suspect that all states

363
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 2: will be following.

364
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 5: Chief Minister or premier. Premier got on board straight away,

365
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:55,400
Speaker 5: and so.

366
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 2: You know, I think all credits are our chief Minister.

367
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 2: She's shown leadership men and men's prisons, women and women's prisons. Yes,

368
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: there will be appropriate protections in each prison, but the

369
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 2: leadership shown by our Chief Minister and all states look

370
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 2: like they're going to be following.

371
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 4: I think we just need to remain My only thing,

372
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 4: Katie is we just all have to be respectful. We

373
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 4: are talking about territorians of.

374
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 3: Course, fair cool, very fair cool.

375
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: We are going to take a really quick break. You

376
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 1: are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty. Well,

377
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: you are listening to Mix one O four nine's week

378
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 1: that was if you've just joined us in the studio

379
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: this morning. We've got Robin Lamley, we have got Steve Edgington,

380
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 1: and we've got Chancey Paik. Now the crime stats, well,

381
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: the Chief Minister has been out this morning about an

382
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: hour ago, I think, releasing the latest crime statistics.

383
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 3: The stats cover the period of.

384
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: January to August this year with one two hundred and

385
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: seventy three less victims of crime than in the same

386
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 1: months the previous year. That is what the Chief Ministers

387
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: said that it's a reduction of seven point four percent.

388
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: Now the governments say the past eight months more than

389
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: one two hundred fewer offenses were recorded territory wide, including

390
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 1: major reductions in robberies, house break ins, and commercial burglaries.

391
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: So offenses against the person have dropped sixteen percent, assaults

392
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: it down nineteen percent, residential break ins of full and

393
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: twenty four percent. Commercial burglaries are plummeted thirty eight percent. However,

394
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: you know, I will say that I know whenever we

395
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 1: dabbling crime statistics, you've got to be real careful because

396
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: there is always someone listening who's been a victim of crime,

397
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: who've had something happen. And I know that for you

398
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: guys in your communities, I don't know whether things have

399
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: gotten a heck of a lot better in Alice Springs

400
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: or in Tenant Creek.

401
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 4: You tell me, well, look, Katie, and we're hearing this

402
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 4: morning that the crime stats are out. They don't get

403
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 4: released publicly till ten thirty, So after ten thirty, I'll,

404
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 4: you know, certainly have a deep dive and look at

405
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 4: those stats. But of course any trend down is a

406
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 4: welcome trend absolutely, but again, really keen to just get

407
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 4: the break down and see what are the actual statistics

408
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 4: for Alice Springs, for Tenant Creek for Catherine, for the

409
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: wider territory, not just the overall snapshot. I I am

410
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 4: interested in looking at what the assaults or harm to

411
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 4: another is. But of course any decrease is a welcomed thing,

412
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 4: whether that is and I think that this will be

413
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 4: the interesting work now is looking at and I'm interested

414
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 4: to hear from Steve. Is it a particular measure that

415
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 4: they think personally has worked, or is it a suite

416
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 4: of measures? Is it combined with the Commonwealth's financial investments

417
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 4: that have gone into Central Australia funding a number of programs,

418
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 4: And importantly, and absolutely most importantly, just really acknowledging again

419
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: today our hard working police and frontline officers doing an

420
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 4: amazing job. Our members of the judiciary who are following

421
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 4: the laws and making sure that they are considering though

422
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 4: so I think, yeah, look, I'm absolutely the first to

423
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 4: say any decrease is a welcome decore.

424
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 5: We certainly didn't see these decreases under your watch, Chancey.

425
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 5: I just have to throw that in. So it is

426
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 5: very encouraging to see these small incremental decreases in crime.

427
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 5: Can you see the difference on the streets of Alice Springs?

428
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 5: Probably not would you agree, Chancy.

429
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think we've got to remember as well. Okadie,

430
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 4: you summed it up beautifully, and Robin, you've hit the

431
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 4: nail on the head as well. Crime affects each of

432
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 4: us differently, and I think we are still seeing a

433
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 4: lot of you know, public drunkenness and you know, antisexual behavior.

434
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 4: So I think it's a motive issue and it's going

435
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 4: to take some time to do the work. And again

436
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 4: it's a personal thing. I have spoken to some people

437
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 4: you know that will say that they've seen changes, and

438
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 4: then I've spoken to other people in particular suburbs who

439
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 4: say there's been no change.

440
00:23:54,520 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 5: So it is, and the of damaged caused the deterioration

441
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 5: in law and order is very difficult to turn around.

442
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 5: It's difficult to turn around the deterioration in our streets

443
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 5: and the way, you know, those obvious signs of wear

444
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 5: and tear from crime and law and order. We had

445
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 5: friends stay with us over the weekend who had both

446
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 5: lived in Alice Springs a long time ago, and they

447
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 5: were shocked at the state of the town, the impact

448
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 5: of crime over many years on the town. So we've

449
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 5: got a long way to go. But look, these signs

450
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 5: are encouraging and we have to be optimistic.

451
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, Katie, as you said, you know, the statistics

452
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 2: are encouraging. Look our commitment to restoring law and order.

453
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: The statistics that you've just rattled off very encouraging. But

454
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: is there more to do? Of course there's more to do,

455
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: and we acknowledge that, and that's what we're constantly doing

456
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: every day of the week getting out there, focus on

457
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: reducing crime, but restoring law and order. And I think

458
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: when we talk about, you know, what has worked, I think,

459
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: you know, we came to government on a focus of

460
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: reducing crime right across the Northern territory. Think, as we said,

461
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: the statistics are encouraging, but I think when you look back,

462
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: we put in place some very strong bail laws and

463
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: I think if you look at some of these statistics,

464
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: between the sixth of January and thirtieth of September four

465
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: thousand and five hundred and eighty seven adults were refused bail,

466
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: that's a thirty eight percent increase for the same period

467
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: last year. So is there some correlation there, Well, we

468
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: need to examine that further, but certainly the refusal of

469
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,239
Speaker 2: bail are drop in crime rates. Things are working, but

470
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: we certainly acknowledge there's a lot lot more to do

471
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: right across the Northern territory, and I do want to

472
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: acknowledge the work that our front line officers are doing.

473
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: I think all credit must go to the police and

474
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: those agencies right through, whether it's whether it's housing safety offices,

475
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: whether it's transit officers, our children families departments, our education

476
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: just getting kids to school makes a difference. Everything makes

477
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 2: a difference when it comes to crime. Now, holistic approach

478
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 2: is certainly making a difference.

479
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: So will note.

480
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: I caught up with the newest the new police Commissioner,

481
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: Martin Dole, earlier in the week. I'd interviewed him on

482
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: the show. Now he had said that yes, there had

483
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: been a slight reduction, but he said there's still a

484
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: lot of work to be done and they're going to

485
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: be working very hard on that.

486
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: I had asked if there is.

487
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: Going to be a bit more of a move towards

488
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: proactive policing again, because I think over the years, you know,

489
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: sort of post COVID and then with you know, unfortunately

490
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: extremely high rates of crime. What we saw is that

491
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: our police, our frontline officers were simply not able to

492
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: get out to everything. So had asked if there's going

493
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: to be a move towards that real proactive policing. He

494
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: said that, yeah, that is something that they'd like to do.

495
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: I do also want to note I'd caught up with

496
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: the Deputy Corrections Commissioner about a week and a half ago,

497
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: and he had also noted that in our watch houses

498
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: that we no longer have the high volume of prisoners

499
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: that we did in our watch houses, So hopefully that

500
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: is also a good thing. But you know, there is

501
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: no doubt that we have suffered, you know, dramatically when

502
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: it comes to the impacts of crime. I do think that,

503
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder I think that a lot of

504
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: people would probably agree across the top end that things

505
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: are are a bit better, but we do still have

506
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: a long way to go. But there's also a long

507
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: way to go in terms of that restoring of you know,

508
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: like restoring that confidence with territorians that you know, when

509
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 1: something does happen, they call the police, they are going

510
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: to be able to get someone out there in a

511
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: timely fashion and that there will be that proactive policing again.

512
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: So there is that restoring of the confidence. And that's

513
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: not a criticism of the police in any way. In fact,

514
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: I think they work incredibly hard. There's no other way

515
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: to put it. But we you know, as a community,

516
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: whether you're in Tenant Creek, Alice Springs, you know, whatever,

517
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: wherever you may be, we all want to feel safe.

518
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: We want to be safe in our homes and we

519
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: want to know that should something go wrong, that the

520
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: good men and women in the police force are able

521
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: to get out there and help it.

522
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 2: Katie, That's what we're doing. We're focused on getting more

523
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: police on the street. We want to see police on

524
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: the front line and you know, just over the last

525
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: last financial years, one hundred and eighty two new sworn officers. Yes,

526
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: we can talk about attrition rates, but the facts are

527
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty two additional police. And when you've

528
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: got police on the front line, visible, the public has

529
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: confidence when they see police out and about and responding

530
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: to those issues. And I think when you look at

531
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: that overall, yes, the police want to be proactive. I

532
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: think we're slowly getting on top of some of those issues.

533
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: And when you talk about less prisoners in police watchhouses,

534
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: it just goes to show that the Corrections Minister has

535
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: been out there doing his part and we are getting

536
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: more bets back in prison so that there is a

537
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: better flow of prisoners outside of watchhouses.

538
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 4: I don't disagree, Katie, but you know, our police do

539
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: do a fantastic job, and I think the appointment of

540
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: Martin dole Is is great and has been welcomed by many.

541
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 4: But this is not an issue that we should be

542
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: leaving up to the police alone. I think we need

543
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 4: to look at other models, like alternative first respond to

544
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: models where we're working with night patrols, patrolling groups, community

545
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 4: groups to look at there are measures that we can

546
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 4: have other groups that we can use to de escalate

547
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 4: situations to save police being called out for something that

548
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 4: they otherwise shouldn't normally have to deal with. It's recognizing

549
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 4: the value of our police and letting them get on

550
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 4: with the job of policing. There are other ways that

551
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: we can look at those patrols and I think, you know, Katie,

552
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: we are seeing at the moment that, yeah, there are

553
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: a lot of people in the corrections facilities, so really

554
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: interested to continue to find out from the Corrections Minister

555
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 4: what are the programs that are being developed because at

556
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: some point people have to be released from prison and

557
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 4: go back into the community, be reintegrated, and then how

558
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 4: we respond and keep the reciptivism reduced is really important

559
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: and I'm actively, really willing to work with anyone around

560
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 4: what that looks like.

561
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: Just while we're on the discussion of our prisons, I

562
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: do just want to raise the point that Justine Davis

563
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: had raised, of course, throughout Parliament this week. I know

564
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: that she'd moved a motion and called on the Federal

565
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: government to urgently establish an Aboriginal Deay in Custody Watchdog

566
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: with the aim to stop police from investigating police and

567
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: to end She's called it our national shame.

568
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: Now.

569
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: She brought the motion on Wednesday urging the Federal government

570
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: to establish an independent body with the resources and power

571
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: to enforce minimum standards and to investigate, report, monitor and

572
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: enforced change in relation to all Indigenous debts in custody

573
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: in Australia. Now, the discussion turned quite heated from what

574
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: I could see when I was watching in Parliament.

575
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: Throughout the week.

576
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: Now she had within that speech that she had made,

577
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: there'd been some she had actually quoted the Human Rights

578
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: Commission President and said since colonization, Australian law has too

579
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: often delivered injustice to First Nations people. Police have often

580
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: been the agents of this injustice, helping to administer laws

581
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: and policies like those that enabled the Stolen generations. Mistrust

582
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: continues between First Nations communities and police. She said or

583
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: was she quoted? Police investigate themselves. It breeds mistrust and

584
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: increases the risk of poor investigations and a lack of accountability.

585
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: Now this is what then Jared Mayley had to say

586
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: in Parliament. He obviously was pretty fired up. Take a listen,

587
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: you manage speak?

588
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 6: Can I rise and make my contribution in relation to this?

589
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 6: But matters bigger? Before I start, I just want to

590
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 6: make it very clear that I am completely disgusted and

591
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 6: offended by the words meant for John just spoke about

592
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 6: about please not being trustworthy. My father was a police officer.

593
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 6: How dare you say he not trustworthy? Madam Speaker, memberpher

594
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 6: Barkley is the police officer. I know he's offended by

595
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 6: your words. Are you going to apologize to him? Are

596
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 6: you saying he's not trustworthy? How embarrassing?

597
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: Members disgusting?

598
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 5: Direct your comments from me, please, sorry.

599
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 6: Madam speaker.

600
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 5: I appreciate you.

601
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 6: I'm just getting very fired up that how dare she

602
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 6: call the police untrustworthy? The police are the first person

603
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 6: to run into danger. They're the first person territory call

604
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 6: when there's a problem. I bet you Member for Johnson's

605
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 6: called the police. I'd better be one of her friends

606
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 6: is called the police. And yet she stands here and

607
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 6: says they're not trustworthy. And if she used the word

608
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 6: police agents of injustice. Police are agents of injustice. That's

609
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 6: embarrassing that I'm speaker.

610
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: So that is part of what was said. Now. I

611
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: spoke to Justine on the show yesterday.

612
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: She said that, you know that what Minister Mailie was

613
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: saying had taken her out of context, that she was

614
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: obviously reading from comments that had been made by the

615
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: Human Rights Commission president. But nonetheless it's certainly, you know,

616
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: it fired people up. I mean, Steve, were you offended

617
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: by the comments?

618
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: I certainly was. And you know, any suggestion that there

619
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: is this mistrust amongst the police force, and I think

620
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: that that is quite hurtful to me. I spent sixteen

621
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: and a half years on the front line policing and

622
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: you're just going to go back to why we have police.

623
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: They're not the agents of injustice. They're there to serve

624
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: and protect the community. And I think this is the

625
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: important part that's real often missed. To serve and protect

626
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: the community. They do that when they put on their

627
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: uniform every day of the week. I trust them, the

628
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: community trusts them. So to come out in Parliament and

629
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: to read from a script suggesting that there is this

630
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: mistrusting police, it's just.

631
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: Wrong and I think a very good distraction tool though

632
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: by Jared Mayley, you know, to take the discussion that

633
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: way when she was talking about Aboriginal debts in custody.

634
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it was a distraction tool, but

635
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 2: I think he clearly made a point that that mistrust

636
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: that was read out doesn't exist. But when it goes

637
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: to death in custody. Look, I've spent time reading the

638
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: Royal Commission into Abriginal dess in custody, and you know

639
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: there's this constant to commentary now that there needs to

640
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: be this independent body, but there was no suggestion of

641
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: that when the Royal Commission was completed. In fact, the

642
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: process that's being followed at the moment by police is

643
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: the very process recommended under the Royal Commission into Aboriginal

644
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: Desathing CUS. So I'm not sure why the Member for

645
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Johnston is trying to rewrite history. I have full confidence

646
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 2: in the police police that aren't involved in any death

647
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: in custody. Police from a totally different area come in

648
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: to investigate that matter, which is overseen by the coroner.

649
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: And when you look at the separation of powers, the

650
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: judicial side of our system is overseeing the death of

651
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: every Aboriginal death in custody and you've only got to

652
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: look at the findings coming out of the death in

653
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: the under move But.

654
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 4: I think Katie, let's be clear, the Member for Barkley

655
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: and the Deputy Chief Minister, they can be offended, but

656
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 4: not at the Member for Johnson. She was reading a

657
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 4: piece of literature that was done by someone else. So

658
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 4: I think that there's some real and look, we're all

659
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: guilty of it. You can become highly emotional in Parliament

660
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: and we've seen this week a number of times people

661
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: have missed heard one or two words. I think the Speaker,

662
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 4: Robin could talk about that in a minute. But I

663
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: think you know, since that Royal Commission of Aboriginal Torture

664
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 4: under debts and custody. There have been six hundred and

665
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: two or First Nations people have died. But I think

666
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 4: that there certainly are mechanisms. Part of the closing the

667
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: gap is an independent mechanism. Maybe that's an area where

668
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: we can look at a level of investigative work or oversight.

669
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 4: I don't think that we need to get into a

670
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 4: situation of creating things. We need to make sure that

671
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 4: we're working with the Commonwealth because this is a Commonwealth matter. Certainly,

672
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: I have members of my family are in the force,

673
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 4: my community are or alos. They do do a great job.

674
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 4: I think this is an issue that Yes, this week

675
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 4: was driven and parts of it have been taken out

676
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 4: of context. I think that's happened a week in parliament.

677
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: But I think, look, there are mechanisms. I think Steve

678
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 4: is the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, there is an independ mechanism.

679
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: It's not in yet, but it's been discussed at a

680
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 4: national level, First ministers, First Nations ministers. So let's have

681
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 4: a conversation. Is there an opportunity for some level.

682
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 5: Of Yeah, Look, I think what Justine brought up was

683
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 5: legitimate and it's exactly what we should be doing in Parliament.

684
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 5: We should be talking about difficult topics that not necessarily

685
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 5: the other side of the chamber agrees with. Justine would have,

686
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 5: I assume predicted that what she was going to say

687
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 5: could be inflammatory, and it was. I mean, you know,

688
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: when you make comments like that, you're going to get

689
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 5: people's backs up. I don't think it was meant to

690
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 5: be personal, but it was certainly taken personally. There's always

691
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 5: two sides to every story. Justine was clearly shocked and

692
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 5: affronted by the reaction from Jared Mayley and subsequently the

693
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 5: Steve Edgington, who's staying here with us, But that's parliament.

694
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 5: You know, if you you have to bring up you're

695
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 5: paid to bring up difficult topics. You're paid to bring

696
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 5: up subjects that are unpalatable to some people in that chamber,

697
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 5: and you have to be prepared for the reaction you get.

698
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 5: Personal imputations and attacks are unacceptable. But I thought that

699
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 5: Jared how Jared responded, apart from looking at her and

700
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: going for her directly instead of me, I thought it

701
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 5: was not disorderly for the most part. I know that

702
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 5: Duran Young stood up later and he took exception to

703
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 5: the way in which the Deputy Chief Minister responded, but

704
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 5: he was also quite animated and aggressive about what he

705
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 5: was saying too. I like that, and a speaker I

706
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 5: embraced that if you're going to yell and carry on,

707
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 5: look at me and yell and carry on and make

708
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 5: a point, don't make it personal. But yeah, I think.

709
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: Justine absolutely the point. And the speaker does remind people

710
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 4: when you're in Parliament, you're talking to her, You're not

711
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 4: talking to anyone else. And I think actions speak louder

712
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 4: than words as we hear, and I think sometimes we

713
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 4: do get really heated and we lean forward and people

714
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 4: are interjecting and pointing fingers, and that can make some

715
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 4: of the other people.

716
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: If if you're not or yeah, yep, and Rob and

717
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: I know you did have your hands a little bit

718
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: full this week.

719
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 3: I know chance he got thrown out. Your friends now

720
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: your friends now, I.

721
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 5: Know we've always been friends. I've got a job to do,

722
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 5: and you know I've been thrown out so many times

723
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 5: I can't even remember.

724
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: So you know, a.

725
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: Good speak, there's always time.

726
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 5: Watching you very carefully.

727
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: We've better take a quick break.

728
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine three

729
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: sixty it is the week that was.

730
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 3: You've just joined us in the studio.

731
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: Today we've got Chancey Paig, We've got Steve Edgington and

732
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: Robin Lamley.

733
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 3: Now, the big.

734
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: Story out of Central Australia this week is indeed the

735
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: fact that the Northern Tiret treat Treasurer pulled the pin

736
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: on the art Gallery and Alice Springs days after giving

737
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 1: the Federal government the ultimatum. Now, Bill Yan had said

738
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: that the government made several attempts to get the Commonwealth

739
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: to endorse changes to the scope and site before the

740
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: contract deadline for that work to begin. I mean, what

741
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: do you guys make of this? Robin, I know you

742
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: had been you'd said, well, let's spend the money on

743
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: a hospital. I asked if he said we're going to

744
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: need more than that.

745
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 5: Well that's true. Look, this has just been a complete

746
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 5: abject failure from start to finish. This art gallery, Katie

747
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 5: nine years ending in absolute absolutely nothing for the town.

748
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 5: It's affected us all. I think it's put us all

749
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 5: back many years. It started off as a wonderful concept,

750
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 5: the iconic National Aboriginal Art Gallery. People have got behind

751
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 5: it and early in the piece it was put on

752
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 5: a trajectory of going nowhere being placed on Anazac Oval.

753
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 5: That was the problem.

754
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: Where did it go so wrong?

755
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: Because I spoke to Scott McConnell, a former MLA, earlier

756
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: in the week and he said, well it all went

757
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: wrong with Michael Gunner, that he was the architect of

758
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: falling Aparst.

759
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 5: Michael Gunner decided to put it on Anzac Oval.

760
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: Oh.

761
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: Look, I think where we are at the moment is.

762
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: Look.

763
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: I think, just to be clear, I think that look,

764
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 4: I inherited the project when I first came into cabinet.

765
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 4: The government had been in for four years. There had

766
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 4: been a report by two really amazing Central Australians and

767
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 4: predominant art figures nationally. I obviously inherited a site and

768
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 4: had to try and deliver something premiere on that site.

769
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 4: That was then changed when the CLP came to government

770
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 4: Reese Go and location still within the vicinity but not

771
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 4: on the oval. I acknowledge that there was some backlash

772
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 4: around it being directly across the road from a pub.

773
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 4: I think the Treasurer has pulled it. I think that

774
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 4: we are hearing rumblings about other projects. I think that

775
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 4: if this is to go ahead. It should be something

776
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 4: that is one hundred percent managed and delivered by the Commonwealth,

777
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 4: that it can sit with either the National Gallery of Asia,

778
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 4: the National Museum or aasis. The territory doesn't need to

779
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 4: be involved in this anymore. But what I will say

780
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 4: is the Treasurer just didn't wake up on Tuesday morning

781
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 4: and decide that he was going to pull the money,

782
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: so they've had time. I mean, I know, and I

783
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 4: think Robin knows as well, like that money should be

784
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: reinvested in Central Australia. Robin will be hurrahing for the

785
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 4: hospital which is apso I agree. But I also think

786
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 4: there are great projects like total refurbishment of Ara Luin,

787
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: keeping the Museum of Central Australia open, move it to

788
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 4: the Desert Park, do a new great exhibition space at

789
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 4: the Strello Research Center. That money was allocated for a

790
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 4: cultural investment, Let's keep it there well.

791
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 5: Melandery McCarthy was on ABC Radio Ela Springs this morning

792
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 5: and she very strongly implied that the art gallery is

793
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 5: not done yet. Mark two Mike to wait for this space.

794
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 4: Yes, again, differing of opinion, I think what I heard

795
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 4: from that is that the money is still available. For

796
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 4: an artistic or content project, and I think from reading

797
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 4: between the lines, it should be something that's completely one

798
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 4: hundred percent driven by the federal government and it should

799
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 4: be south of the gap.

800
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting to hear Melanderry coming out.

801
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: Robin last nine years.

802
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the first time, you know, labor member for.

803
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 4: Both Get on Facebook and hit their like page and

804
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 4: keep up to date with where they traveling.

805
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: She's ross probably traveling everywhere.

806
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: Has been the strongest voice for Central Australia.

807
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: We are hoping I'm hoping to have Marian on the

808
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: show on Monday morning, so we'll certainly we'll try and

809
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: follow this.

810
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 2: She certainly got a lot of explaining to do because

811
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 2: the federal government had their opportunity to support this project

812
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: and they just dragged on and on and on.

813
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 5: Change way to go out nine years again?

814
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: I think, Well, I think the Treasurer gave more next

815
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: minute of opportunity to make a decision, but unfortunately labor

816
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: fighting amongst themselves and couldn't make a decision in the

817
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: part of fighting in labor. They couldn't even reach a

818
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: conclusion between Maryon and the.

819
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: Well, let's see whether what happens next We're going to

820
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: have to take a really quick break before we get

821
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: ready to wrap up for the morning.

822
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 3: You are listening to mix on O four point ninety

823
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 3: is the week that was well it had.

824
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: It's been an hour of power with these three in

825
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: here this morning. Robin Lambley, thank you so much for

826
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: your time today, very much for having me, and another

827
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: busy week for you as the Speaker.

828
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 5: Back again next Tuesday Parliament kicks off again for another

829
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 5: three days.

830
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: Trying to keep everybody keep keeping a lid on things.

831
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: Thank you, kay doing your.

832
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: Best, doing a good job.

833
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: Steve Edgington, the Minister for Health, thank you so much

834
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: for your time this morning.

835
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: It's been great to be here, Catie. And perhaps one

836
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: thing we might want to talk about later is, as

837
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: I said in Parliament last night, the NTI is three

838
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty four million dollars short when it comes

839
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: to health funding. Good one to talk well.

840
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: We'll definitely be keen to have you on very soon

841
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: about that. I'll be keen to discuss that further.

842
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: Chancey pig Ho'm we to have you in the studio

843
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 3: for the Labor Party.

844
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 4: Great to be here. Just wanted to touch on next

845
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 4: weekend is the fortieth anniversary of the handbag of Ularu

846
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 4: to the all new people, so huge celebration. Everyone's going

847
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 4: to be down there. The COLP did originally pray test

848
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 4: the handback, so I hope to see the minister. That's great.

849
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: I think there was some of that was something they've

850
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 4: just been to London and they met the King yesterday.

851
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 4: So I've said to people, regardless of your view of

852
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 4: the moniker, keep that aside. Let's just celebrate that this

853
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 4: is a special moment for them to go and visit

854
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 4: the Kings and Katie. It's going to be a scorch

855
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 4: and run across the territory this weekend, so stay cool

856
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 4: and hydrate the people.

857
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Thank you also very much for your time

858
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 1: this morning.