1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Hi, this is the Happy Families Podcast. Welcome. When your 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: child has experienced multiple deaths of loved ones and now 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: lies awake at night, terrified of death, terrified of being alone, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: terrified of going to sleep, how do you comfort him? 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: What do you say to a young person who's learned 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: I think way too early that people that you love 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: can disappear. We're exploring the psychology behind childhood death, anxiety 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: and practical strategies that actually help in today's podcast. Stay 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: with us. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: Real parenting Solutions every day. This is Australia's number one 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson and every 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: Tuesday we tackle your tricky topics. If you'd like to 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: submit a question, go to the super simple system at 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: happy families dot com. Do you just press record and 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: leave us a note? Otherwise you can email your voice 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: notes to podcasts at Happy families dot com. Do you Kylie? 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: Today a tricky one. It's a follow on from last 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: week's discussion about pending mortality. Based on that discussion, we 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: received a voice note from Tess who visited Happy families 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: dot com dot Au and Tess asked us this question. 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Tess. I'm from the Abelian Victoria. 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: I just like some tips of how to help my 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: son to some big feelings his having when he's lying 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: in bed at night surrounding death. He's terrified of it. 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: There's a bit of history there. His friend passed from 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: brain cancer, my dad, his grandpa passed away. He is 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: great nana, and his nana has terminal cancer as well, 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: and he's absolutely terrified of everything surrounding death, whether it 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: be him or his loved ones. I'd just like to 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: help him throw up somehow. 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I mean, Kylie. We talked last week 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: about how life can sometimes be hard. This is what 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: psychologists call, with this particular child, cumulative grief. So if 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: kids are experiencing multiple significant losses in a relatively short 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: period of time, developing brains struggle to process not just 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: each individual death, but the pattern of loss itself. And 37 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: research shows that children who have experienced cumulative grief often 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: developed what looks like a kind of a generalized anxiety 39 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: around mortality, around death. But it's just their mind trying 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: to make sense of a world that suddenly feels really impermanent, 41 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: really unpredictable, completely unsafe. So he's lost a friend, a grandpa, 42 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: a great grandma, now facing his grandmother's terminal illness. That's 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot of loss for anyone, let alone a child 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: who's still really developing his understanding of what mortality is 45 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: and how it works. 46 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 3: And I think that while we don't know his age, 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: losing a friend, losing a peer, oh yeah, at any age, 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: I don't think it actually matters because I know that 49 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: you know, when we've lost adult friends. 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Yep, it's called an out of sequence death or an 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: out of order death. So the way that it's to 52 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: happen is that the older generations die before the younger 53 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: generations die. And when you lose somebody way too young, 54 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: certainly well before the older generations have passed along, it 55 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: just shakes you. It absolutely, It makes you question everything 56 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: about the permanence of your life. In some ways, that's 57 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: actually quite good. Like there's this one theory that's out 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: there called terror management theory. The idea is that at 59 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: a general level, while ever we're remembering that we are 60 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: in an impermanent state and that we are mortal and 61 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: will die one day, it helps us to live more 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: in the present. It helps us to be more grateful, 63 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: more focused, more intentional. But I don't think that's helpful 64 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: here when we're dealing with this generalized death anxiety. In fact, 65 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: I think that it's going to amplify that. We don't 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: want to keep on saying well, that's the point of 67 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: mortality like that. That's not going to help. So that's 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: not something that I think that we want to be 69 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: talking to our kids about. That's going to make them 70 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: even more worried. What it does emphasize, though, as you 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: made the point, when you're young, this stuff can really 72 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: throw you and you need the predictability, right, like you 73 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: need to believe that the people that you love are 74 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: going to be around you. 75 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: And well, when you see great grandma die as a 76 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: young child, while that's hard and you're going to miss them, 77 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 3: it's very easy for mom and dad to talk about 78 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: the fact that she's lived this really long life. 79 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: Yes, we can celebrate it. We're sad, but we're kind 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: of relieved as well. 81 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, but when your best friend dies or appear in 82 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 3: your classroom, even if you're not even close to them, 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: particularly the very fact that you know someone who's your 84 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 3: age has gone, that changes the dialogue, especially the internal dialogue, 85 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: as you try to grapple with does that mean I could? 86 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: And I think this is the key insight. His fear 87 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: isn't about death as this abstract concept. It's about the 88 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: very real pattern that he's witnessed as he has lost 89 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: people that he loves. So his anxiety is actually evidence 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: of how deeply is capable of loving someone and how 91 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: much these relationships mean to him. But that doesn't help 92 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 1: you as a parent when seeing your child suffer respect. 93 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about why it peaks at bedtime, 94 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: So on the podcast, I often talk about this thing 95 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: called the default mode network. It's the part of your 96 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: brain that switches on when you don't have to think 97 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: about anything, and it's usually a really important part of 98 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: your brain because it gets you thinking about your identity, 99 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: about what your value. It gets you thinking about who 100 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: you are and what matters to you. But with people 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: who have anxiety, the default mode network kind of goes 102 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: over active, and it starts thinking about a whole lot 103 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: of things that you don't want it to be thinking 104 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: about at times that you don't want to be thinking 105 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: about them. So these fears are surfacing most intensely at 106 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: bedtime because during the day his mind's occupied with school 107 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: and with activities and with everything that's happening in his life. 108 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: But when the lights go out and the house gets quiet, 109 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: that's when his brain has the space to process what 110 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: he's experienced. And there's some research from some sleep studies 111 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: that tell us that the transition to sleep can with 112 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: some kids make them make who are more vulnerable to 113 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: anxious thoughts. It can naturally increase that because they're losing 114 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: conscious control. So for a child who's learned that bad 115 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: things can happen to people that he loves, the darkness 116 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: and the quiet, instead of feeling peaceful like it does 117 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: for most of us, can feel really threatening. This is 118 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: an afflaw in his thinking. It's the default mode network 119 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,679 Speaker 1: doing what it's supposed to do. It's the nervous system 120 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: doing what it's designed to do, which is scanned for 121 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: threats when he's in a vulnerable state. The problem is 122 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: that in this case, the threats that he's scanning for 123 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: are real memories rather than the imaginary monster or the 124 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: intruder or something like that. After the break, we need 125 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: to talk about what we can do from a practical 126 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: point of view to help your kids if they are 127 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: dealing with this worry and fear about death. Okay, Kylie, 128 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: you can hear and tests that she's right there for 129 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: her son. You can tell that she's really switched on 130 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: and aware of what's going on for him. So I 131 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: want to share a couple of ideas. I think I 132 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: have three or four of them that will likely be 133 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: pretty aligned with what I'm sure Tess is already doing. 134 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: The research shows that the most effective strategies are going 135 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: to focus on connection and authentic relationship rather than trying 136 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: to manage the behavior or going for some quick fixes. 137 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: For ideas, Kylie, I'd like you to take the first 138 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: couple and then I'll wrap us up. 139 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: Well, I think the first one is really important. It's 140 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: honestly about focusing on making bed time a time of 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: real connection with your child, slowing things down and really 142 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: being able to sit with them in whatever emotion they're 143 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 3: feeling at the particular time. 144 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say don't go digging for no, 145 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: not at all, because that rumination that longly amplified and 146 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: make it worse. But just being there and helping to 147 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: feel safe and comfortable and making it that time of 148 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: genuine connection, and. 149 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: I think making a real ritual out of bed time, 150 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: you know, whether that's rubbing them back if they like that, 151 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: or putting some oils on and you know, just calming 152 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 3: everything down. 153 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: We've always found singing to our kids. They well, except 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: for our youngest, all of our other kids have loved 155 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: it when we just lay on the floor or lay 156 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: in the bed beside them and sing them songs and 157 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: rub their back. 158 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: Cuddles and story time, those kinds of things will really 159 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 3: help just calm their nervous system. Second, the second thing 160 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 3: is it's really important that we follow their lead. Like 161 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: you said, we're not we're not fishing for emotions. We're not. 162 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: We're not trying to kind of dig up and deep 163 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: and dark things. We really want to follow their lead. 164 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: If they're actually happy, don't bring it up, you need to. 165 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: The way that I say this is kids don't need therapists. 166 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: They need parents. So don't try to be the psychologist. 167 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: That will backfire, that will make things worse. 168 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if they haven't, if they're in a great mood, 169 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: let's celebrate that. You know, what are the things that 170 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: you're grateful for today? Tell me about that. What was 171 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: your highlight, what are you looking forward to tomorrow? Those 172 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 3: kinds of questions that enable them to kind of live 173 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: into that joyful space. But there are going to be 174 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: times where it's going to be very obvious that they're 175 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 3: actually not coping particularly well. And we might say it 176 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 3: feels like you're really anxious right now, or you're a 177 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: little bit sad tonight. Do you want to talk to 178 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 3: me about that? 179 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and those little scripts, it's so simple to say 180 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: it looks like having a tough time tonight. It seems 181 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: like a sad night. That's all you need. They will 182 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: open up, or they'll they'll sink into your shoulder and 183 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: hold you tight. That's really what you're looking for. I 184 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: got a couple that I'd love to throw in the 185 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: first one. Really, this kind of builds on what you've said. 186 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: Just folks, on connection in the present moment. Don't make 187 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: any promises about the future. Just be here right now. 188 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: You can't actually promise to your kids that no one 189 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: else is going to die. I think that's going to 190 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: be dishonest. And he's already learned that people do die, 191 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: so that will undermine your credibility and your relationship. 192 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: And I think you can validate his feelings by acknowledging 193 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: that you have those same thoughts. 194 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and we miss them. Let's celebrate them. I 195 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: even think, oh, actually I'm going to I'm jumping ahead. 196 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: I want to share one more idea. But let me 197 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: wrap this up just again, a simple script. I'm here 198 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: with you right now, you're safe in bed. We love 199 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: each other right now in this moment, You're okay, I'm okay, 200 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: We're good, right and just being in the moment is 201 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: a really big one. That really is me summarizing your 202 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: first two I think researchers have this phrase. They talk 203 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: about transitional comfort objects. So this is basically, it might 204 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: be a photo album of happy memories with the people 205 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: who's lost. It could be a special blanket that belonged 206 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: to grandpa, maybe a journal where he can write letters 207 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: to the people that he's lost, people who have died. 208 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: I've seen people who've taken you know, Grandpa's shirt and 209 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: made it into a Teddy. 210 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: Bear or yeah, or a pillow case or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. 211 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: So the key here is you want to give him 212 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: that sense of volition, that choice, that agency in creating 213 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: and using these transitional objects. You're not imposing them, but 214 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: you can develop them together. That's that whole autonomy support 215 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: that we talk about on the podcast all the time. 216 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: For me, when I think about this as we kind 217 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: of tie this all up, I actually think that rituals 218 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 3: are a really important part of this process, especially for 219 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 3: young kids. Having a way for them to find closure 220 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: to the experience is really important. So growing up, I 221 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 3: came from a Polynesian background, and as part of death, 222 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 3: we would have a three day ceremony process or everybody 223 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: would come together and we would actually be in the 224 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: room with the dead person. 225 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: And sorry, just got to pause. Anybody with a non 226 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: Polynesian cultural background right now is probably going you what, yeah, right, 227 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: because that's not what we typically do in Western culture. 228 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: When I met you and you told me about these things, 229 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: I was like, for real, like with the body. 230 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: So you're not allowed to leave the body alone, so 231 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: somebody has to be with the body the entire time, 232 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 3: and we all sleep in the same room with the body. 233 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 3: So yes, very strange for somebody who has an experience. 234 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 3: But as a young kid, I was surrounded by that 235 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: and death was a celebration, So yes, there was lots 236 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: of crying, There was lots of laughter, There was lots 237 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 3: of music, There was lots of opportunity to share beautiful 238 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: experiences and memories of the person that we were celebrating. 239 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: When we moved to Australia and we left behind all 240 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 3: of that cultural significance, I actually found it really hard 241 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 3: to find closure as I said goodbye to people because 242 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 3: the casket was closed, I never got to see them 243 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 3: and that was really really hard for me and I 244 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 3: just having had both experiences, really think that finding a 245 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 3: way to help our children have closure. I'm not suggesting 246 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: they need to see a dead body to have that, 247 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: but maybe it's writing a letter to them to let 248 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 3: them know how much they love them and share the 249 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 3: memories that they have that make them feel so much 250 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 3: joy for the fact that they were in their lives. 251 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe it's going out into the garden 252 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 3: and putting a beautiful rock or something into the garden 253 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 3: that's a memory of that, or planting a plant. But 254 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: I think that if we can find a way to 255 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: not only celebrate the life gone, but find an opportunity 256 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 3: to have closure to that whole experience, our children will 257 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 3: actually process it so much easier. 258 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that when it comes to the Polynesian 259 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: culture and the death traditions and rituals. I think Polynesian 260 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: culture has it way more right than we have it 261 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: as a Western society. I didn't understand it. I didn't 262 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: like it when you first told me about it, But 263 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: over the years I would like that to be more 264 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: of what we do in our family. I just think 265 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: it's beautiful anyway. Tests Hopefully this's been helpful. What your 266 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: son needs most isn't for his fear to disappear. It's 267 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: for someone to understand that his fear makes perfect sense 268 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: given what his experience, and when he feels truly seen 269 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: and understood in those difficult emotions, he's going to develop 270 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: the capacity to carry those emotions without being overwhelmed by them. 271 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: Next week, a tricky question that keeps us firmly alive 272 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: and planted in the here and now, dealing with your 273 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: own anxiety and safety concerns your children doing things that 274 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: are risky. I keep saying that you kids should do 275 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: at least one thing every week that could land them 276 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: in hospital. We're going to talk about handling that issue 277 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: as a parent who gets anxious with our tricky questions 278 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: next week on the Happy Families podcast. If you have 279 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: a question you'd like to submit, go to happy families 280 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: dot com dot A you record your message or send 281 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: a voice note to podcasts at happy families dot com 282 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: dot you. Big thank you as always to Just and 283 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: rule On from Bridge Media for producing the podcast. Mimhammonds 284 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: looks after research, admin and resources. If you'd like to 285 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: share the podcast and tell others about it because you 286 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: think it might help make their families happier, we'd love 287 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: for you to share the pod and visit happy families 288 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: dot com dot you for more resources that can make 289 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: your family happier.