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Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda gam Nation.

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Speaker 2: The Ururu Statement is big on the agenda at the moment.

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Speaker 2: The statement calls for the establishment of a First Nation's

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Speaker 2: Voice in the Australian Constitution and a Macarata Commission to

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Speaker 2: supervise the process of agreement making and truth telling between

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Speaker 2: governments and Aboriginal and Torres Straight is Lander People's government

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Speaker 2: is keen to get this over the line, but the

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Speaker 2: Coalition doesn't think the plan is solid enough. Channel ten

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Speaker 2: national affairs journalist Shirrimington is on to explain it all

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Speaker 2: to us.

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Speaker 3: Hollow Hugh, I'll do my best, Amanda.

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Speaker 2: Can you first explain to us the history of the document.

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Speaker 3: So if you start with the statement of the Heart

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Speaker 3: from the heart that emerged from a range of efforts

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Speaker 3: that were being made to see if there could be

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Speaker 3: recognition of First Nations people in the Constitution. And there

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Speaker 3: was a thing called the Recognized Campaign that God funding

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Speaker 3: that was really not getting anywhere. That they were going

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Speaker 3: round an Aboriginal community and people didn't love the idea

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Speaker 3: of merely going to all this effort just to get

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Speaker 3: a sentence in there that recognized the First Nations people.

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Speaker 3: So then a whole bunch of elders from across the

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Speaker 3: country met at Uluru and they put together, over a

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Speaker 3: period of days a thing that they then called the

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Speaker 3: Statement of the Heart from the heart meaning the heart

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Speaker 3: of the country really, but also from the personal heart,

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Speaker 3: which mapped out how they believed the country could move forward.

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Speaker 3: And central to that were three elements. One was that

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Speaker 3: there should be a voice to Parliament from Aboriginal and

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Speaker 3: Torres Strait island of people. And then leading from that

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Speaker 3: would become what they called agreement making, but I was

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Speaker 3: interpreted as meaning treaties and also truth meaning a proper

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Speaker 3: coming to terms with the reality of European contact pack

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Speaker 3: on the people who are here living already with all

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Speaker 3: the sorts of euphemism, stripped away about this possession and

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Speaker 3: really talking about what that meanted, real human terms to

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Speaker 3: the people already here. So that's where that went to.

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Speaker 3: And then, as in Albanezi took that towards the last election,

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Speaker 3: and then on the night of his victory speech announced

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Speaker 3: that in this term of parliament he would bring forward

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Speaker 3: a referendum, which is what's required to change the constitution,

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Speaker 3: to put a voice into our national document.

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Speaker 4: And the reference random this is my take on it.

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Speaker 4: First Nations people were here first, and we recognize that

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Speaker 4: is because I'm happy with that, Like that, Is that

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Speaker 4: what the referendum actually is, because when you look at

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Speaker 4: its giant word salad and I just get lost in

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Speaker 4: what actually it is.

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Speaker 1: If it's I'm happy to who wouldn't be happy?

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Speaker 2: But I think the referendum is giving them a voice

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Speaker 2: in our constitutions, not recognition. It's practically having a channel

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Speaker 2: through which their issues are scene.

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Speaker 1: Is that happening with that too?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, so it's it's really potentially both. It kind

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Speaker 3: of recognizes Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island of people by

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Speaker 3: inference because in the speech that the Prime Minister gave

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Speaker 3: to Gama, which is the big First Nations gathering in

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory, he mapped out what he thought with the

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Speaker 3: words and the words are simply this. One there shall

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Speaker 3: be a body to be called the Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 3: Straight Island of Voice. Two. It may make representations to

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Speaker 3: Parliament and the Government on matters relating to Aboriginal and

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Speaker 3: Torres Straight Island people, and of Parliament subject to the

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Speaker 3: constitutional change, will have power to make laws with respect

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Speaker 3: to you know, how the voice is formed up and

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Speaker 3: what its functions are. So really the referendum that people

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Speaker 3: are voting on is on the voice. It infers, you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't have a voice for Aboriginal and Torres Straight

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Speaker 3: Island of people unless you're recognizing Aboriginal and Torres Straight

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Speaker 3: Island the people. But there's no kind of flowery declarative

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Speaker 3: statement about you know, for tens of thousands of years

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Speaker 3: Aboriginal people were here custodians of the lake. That kind

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Speaker 3: of language is not being proposed. It is really a

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Speaker 3: limited statement that people will vote on as to whether

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Speaker 3: there's short or should not be a voice to the Parliament.

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Speaker 2: Some people are saying that that might create a third chamber,

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Speaker 2: that we have a House of Reps, we have our Senate,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll have another chamber there. I heard some

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Speaker 2: people saying this just anecdotally over my holidays, that this

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Speaker 2: will lead to one law for Indigenous Australians and one

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Speaker 2: for us. I don't that's people's fear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, and that was articulated by Malcolm Turnbull and

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Speaker 3: then by Scott Morris. If we don't want a third

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Speaker 3: chamber of the Parliament, that was why they knocked this

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Speaker 3: out when the statement from the Heart came on their watch,

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Speaker 3: as Linda Bernie is the Aboriginal Affairs Minister of Digitous

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Speaker 3: Australians Minister says it is a voice to Parliament. It's

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Speaker 3: not a voice in Parliament, so it doesn't have any

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Speaker 3: veto power ever over legislation, nor in fact does it

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Speaker 3: have any program duties at sick if people go back

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Speaker 3: long Ago was an Aboriginal organization that was set up,

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Speaker 3: but it had the task of delivering programs to people

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Speaker 3: to improve their lives in a variety of ways. That

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Speaker 3: is not part of what this is. It is literally

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Speaker 3: a group. We don't know the final form of it,

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Speaker 3: but the suggestions it will be about twenty four people

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Speaker 3: from around the country representing Aboriginal Torrestrate Island of people

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Speaker 3: from the States and territories and the Torrestrate itself, and

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Speaker 3: that they will where there are policy matters that affect

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Speaker 3: Indigenous Australians, they will have a voice to Parliament but

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Speaker 3: also to the executive Government and which also the advice.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely it does, absolutely it does. So why is Peter

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Speaker 2: Dutton Muney in the wards with this.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of things about it, whether it's that.

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Speaker 3: So he's saying, oh, look, we don't know all the

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Speaker 3: detail about this yet, and the Government needs to give

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Speaker 3: us lots of detail so that people know what they're

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Speaker 3: you know, what they're voting on, the Government's position, which

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Speaker 3: I've got to say they haven't been that effective at

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Speaker 3: making this case is that this is a two part

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Speaker 3: process Australians. Each citizen has the duty and the responsibility

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Speaker 3: to vote in the referendum that's coming, But what you're

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Speaker 3: voting on, what we are voting on is the principle

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Speaker 3: as to whether this voice should exist or should not exist.

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Speaker 3: The fine detail is a matter for Parliament and there's

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Speaker 3: a reason for that. It's kind of technical and law,

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Speaker 3: and that is that if it goes into the Constitution,

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Speaker 3: it's then pretty hard to get it out of the

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Speaker 3: Constitution unless you have another referendum. So you don't want

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Speaker 3: to put every little bit of the detail in that

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Speaker 3: because if you think some aspect of it doesn't work,

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Speaker 3: you've got to go back and have another referendum to

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Speaker 3: change it. Whereas if the voice itself is more or

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Speaker 3: less permanent in the Constitution, subject to a later referendum,

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Speaker 3: it means that you can tink of Parliament can say well,

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Speaker 3: this is working. Do we need twenty four? Should we

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Speaker 3: expand that to thirty six? Should we reduce it to

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Speaker 3: eight people on the voice? This sort of stuff. Parliament

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Speaker 3: can deal with that and represent the will of the

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Speaker 3: people at any time. But I don't think that's been

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Speaker 3: particularly well carried forward.

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Speaker 2: Now. I was like that republican debate we had where

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Speaker 2: we just said do you want to be a republic

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Speaker 2: would have been a much easier question than fighting over.

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Speaker 4: The Australians that we are the best at plane speaking.

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Speaker 4: And I don't know what happened where we just disappear

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Speaker 4: into word salad.

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Speaker 1: You know what you just said? They're Hugh. I support

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Speaker 1: that fully, you know, I support that fully.

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Speaker 4: But I've read this thing a million times and just

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Speaker 4: there's so many words in there's.

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Speaker 2: But it won't be in the referendum, not the World

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Speaker 2: war in the study.

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Speaker 1: So the referendum, if we just pincer that down the referendum.

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Speaker 2: Should they have a voice?

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's it, Hugh.

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Speaker 1: Where are you.

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Speaker 2: When we have our family arguing why would you run

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Speaker 2: in the country?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well look I just sit there reporting it.

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Speaker 4: It's easy, Hugh, thank you very much, Thank you all

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Speaker 4: Hurans and their ten years.

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Speaker 1: First as five pm on ten and ten play. That's

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Speaker 1: where you'll see you