1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Because we know the federal government is preparing to scrap 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: the cashless debit card. Now it is a compulsory income 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: management tool and the scheme quarantines eighty percent of people's 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: welfare pay onto the card, which can't be used then 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: for alcohol, gambling or cash withdrawals. So as I understand it, 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: there are more than seventeen thousand people in the territory 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: WA Queensland, South Australia as well that use the card. 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: But once it's gone, Labour says that income management is 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: going to be made voluntary everywhere except the Northern Territory 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: and parts of far North Queensland. Now, the colp's Senator 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: for the Northern Territory, Just Center Price, has spoken out 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: in favor of the cards during parliamentary debate yesterday and 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: she joins me on the line right now, good morning 14 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: to you, Just Center. 15 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, thanks so much. 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: For your time. Firstly, how do these cashless debit cards 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: work from your perspective. 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: So in the Northern Territory, the cashist of a card 19 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: about four thousand people have opted to go on to 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: the cash list debit card in the Northern Territory. A 21 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: transfer over from the Basics Card in the Northern Territory, 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: fifty percent of your welfare payments are quarantined, so it 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: is only available in on sorry, through the card and 24 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: cannot be spent on alcohol gambling and yeah, alcohol and 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: gambling as well as you know, obviously can't be utilized 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: to purchase drugs with because it's not available as cash. 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: The other fifty percent is available in cash and it 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: provides an opportunitytunity for vulnerable people, you know, particularly Indigenous 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: welfare recipients, to be able to say no to family 30 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: when when they're humbugged from family members who are dealing 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: with alcohol addictions, to be able to say no to 32 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: them that they only got money less on their Basic 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: their cuts debit card. So the problem, however, is this 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: government is choosing to maintain the Basics Card, which is 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: an inferior technology to the casual Serbit card. The Cash 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: and Server card came about because they needed to be 37 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: improvements on the Basics Card and because it was claimed 38 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: there was stigma attached to the Basic cards, which easily identifiable. 39 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: So we don't understand why it is the government is 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: doing this where they're maintaining the inferior technology that can't 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: be used outside of the Northern Territory, and removing the 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: casual Serbit card, which many vulner vulnerable people have said 43 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: has improved their lives. 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: So what do you see as the benefits to the card. 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: So the many benefits that we've heard from from recipients 46 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: is that they're able to manage their money a lot better. 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: They can pay their bills on time, They have money 48 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: left over at the end of you know, the their wealth, 49 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 2: their pay cycle to be able to purchase extra things. 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: There are schemes set up so that people can save 51 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: that money little by little and purchase larger goods like 52 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: white goods for their homes. So it's been able to 53 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: support them in ways that otherwise just having a flow 54 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: of cash goes straight out out of their accounts doesn't 55 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: leave them with money that that meets them, you know, 56 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: to the next payday. That offers them the opportunity to 57 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: put away and save, to quarantine and save to purchase 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: those those larger goods, those white goods for their homes. 59 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: And as I said, the benefit of being able to 60 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: say no to addicted family members who are as you know, 61 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: the cultural obligation when your family demands something of you. 62 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: They can demand the shirt of you're back and you 63 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: have to you are obliged to say yes and hand 64 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: that over. It is considered, you know, disrespectful to say 65 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: no to your family. So it alleviates some of that 66 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: cultural pressure from family members. 67 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: So what do you reckon is going to happen or 68 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: what do you expect will happen if and when this 69 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: cash list debit card becomes voluntary. 70 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: Well, there are a number of concerns that if it's 71 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: made voluntary, then vulnerable people will be pressured to not 72 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: volunteer to go on it by family members who will 73 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: no doubt be aware that it's become a voluntary measure, 74 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: and so that creates more pressure on them to hand 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: over their income to those family members. And not only this, 76 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: but it appears to be an admission by this government 77 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: the fact that if they're removing the casuist debit card, 78 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: they're investing million dollars into drug and alcohol services, that 79 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: by removing that measure, that card, that things are going 80 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 2: to get a hell of a lot worse as a result. 81 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: But it's very vague what they're proposing at the same time, 82 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: because while they're saying they're abolishing the cashist debit card. 83 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: There are now talks of a new card with better technology, 84 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: which to me sounds as if all they're doing is 85 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: perhaps improving the cash a debit card and actually bringing 86 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: it back. But it is so vague to understand what 87 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: this government is actually doing. They don't seem to have 88 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: a plan. They seem to be just making things up 89 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: as they go along. And initially they had called it 90 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: a racist measure, but they're only they're removing it from 91 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: the rest of the country but leaving it in the 92 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: northern territory. And they say now Cape York, where you 93 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: have a very high population of Indigenous Australians, which is 94 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: quite hypocritical to what they were originally saying. 95 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just seems so confusing to me. And I 96 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,119 Speaker 1: guess that, you know, even for people listening this morning, 97 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: they'll be thinking to themselves, you know, they can't even 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: like they're not even sure sort of what the difference 99 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: is between the Basics card and the cash list debit card. 100 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: But then also you know, wondering if, like what you've said, 101 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: if if you know, for cultural reasons, if we're going 102 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: to have a situation where people are you know, having 103 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: to give up their money rather than spend it on 104 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: on their food, their children and their necessities. 105 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: Exactly. And you know, a lot of the argument we're 106 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: hearing from the Greens and from the government is that, 107 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: you know, this is a stigmatizing card and it makes 108 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: people feel terrible, but none of them mention the impact 109 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: of children. But the most important element of this card 110 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: the very reason why, and it was a grass through 111 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: its initiative in the very first place, developed by communities 112 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: in the Kimberley because it was called on by those 113 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: community members for a measure to curb alcohol spending on 114 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs and gambling. And the very fact that, 115 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: of course in a lot of those communities there are 116 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: the highest rates from the nation's highest rates of child 117 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: sexual abuse, and we know that alcohol is a contributing, huge, 118 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: contributing factor to those rates of child sexual abuse. And 119 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: this government can completely ignores this. I mean, we heard 120 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: from Senator Mullenderry who was complaining about the fact that 121 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: the intervention took place while she was in government and 122 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: the territory at the time. But Sales also mentioned that 123 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: it was her government at the time who held onto 124 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: and sat on the little children are Sacred Report, which 125 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: is the report telling us about those astronomical rates of 126 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: child sexual abuse in our communities and which was the 127 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: trigger for that federal intervention. So, you know, likening this 128 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: who taking away people's rights to be able to spend 129 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: their money, is actually disregarding the human rights of children 130 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: to be fed, to live, live free from alcohol related 131 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: sexual abuse, alcohol related violence, and all those things that 132 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: too this is supposed to support. 133 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what. It does sound like there's 134 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: going to be a lot more discussion in this place 135 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: just sin. Have we any idea sort of you know 136 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: when this is going to all change or you know 137 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: when's this new measure going to be implemented. 138 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Well, the legislation comes to an end this Friday. Right 139 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: to be honest, I have no idea what this government 140 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: is proposing in terms of a transition off the card. 141 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: I know that there are a lot of people who 142 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: have those saving schemes in place, with income management measures 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: in place, and it just seems as though it's another 144 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: one of those policies where the rug is going to 145 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: be ripped out from underneath these people who who have 146 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: been on it, you know, on income management since two 147 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: thousand and seven. So you can't simply do that. We 148 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: can't make a change like this, such a rapid change 149 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: to people who are used to a system that has 150 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: been there for such a long period of time without 151 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: having the right frameworks in place before those changes come 152 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: into effects. I mean, we saw it with the listing 153 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: of the alcohol ban in the territory and now we're 154 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: experiencing the immediate impacts. 155 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: Of those Jasindra, I do want to move along, and 156 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: I want to actually ask you about something that we 157 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: spoke to Tourism Central Australia's Daniel Rochford about a little 158 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: bit earlier this morning. Now, I think you'd have to 159 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: say they've taken a pretty unprecedented step of basically moving 160 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: this motion urging the Northern Territory Government to take immediate 161 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: action to enforce law and daughter in Ourae Springs, saying 162 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: that crime is reaching crisis levels now. It follows a 163 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: shocking incident which saw a visitor browsing the local information 164 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: center allegedly hit with the coward's punch by an offender 165 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: without any pre med citation. I mean it's something you 166 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: and I've spoken about before. The crime in Central Australia 167 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: but just how bad are things at the moment. 168 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: Oh, it feels unprecedented the level of crime that's taking 169 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: place in Central Australia. In Central Australia, we feel largely 170 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: neglected by the territory government. We know that our police 171 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: force feel like their hands are tied behind their back, 172 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: that they're utterly under the pump and can't chant seem 173 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: to keep up with the number of incidents that are 174 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: taking place. I mean, I'm sort of surprised that the 175 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 2: industry it's take them this long for the industry to 176 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: stand up, and I would urge the many industries, the 177 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: retail industry, the tourism industry, everybody should come together to 178 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: stand up, be heard, tell this government that they need 179 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: to pull their finger out. And of course, as the 180 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: Senator of the Northern Territory, I'm happy to support in 181 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: whatever way i can. I'm happy to bring it to 182 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: the flaw of the Senate their voices. I'm in the 183 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 2: midst of drafting a bill that would put a handbrake 184 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: on the flow of alcohol back out into these communities 185 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: until such time as a responsible Territory government puts the 186 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 2: appropriate consultation and framework in place to deal effectively with alcohol. 187 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 2: But you're right, much more needs to be done. We've 188 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 2: got a proposal from Yiparinia School to build a student 189 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 2: and staff accommodation that would actually speak to the fact 190 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: that some of those kids in the street are Ypperingia students. 191 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: If they had a safe bed to go and sleep 192 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: in at night time, with responsible adults to support them 193 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: in an educational setting, then that is a measure toward 194 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: curbing some of the some of the issues that we're 195 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: currently faced with. And the principal, Gavin Morris, has stood 196 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: up this week to urge the federal government to commit 197 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: to the commitment that I made of eight point three 198 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: million to be able to build that facility. So there 199 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: are gradual measures that can be taken in different Well, look, we. 200 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: Might see if we're able to get your Brina on 201 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: to have a bit of a chat to us about it. 202 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, look, you know, I guess it's a tough 203 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: one as well where you sort of go. Even with 204 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: the Tourism Body and the Peak Tourism Body for Central 205 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: Australia coming out and saying that crimes at crisis levels, 206 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: you know there will be some people listening that think 207 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: to themselves. Oh, that is going to have a huge 208 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: impact on tourism. But the fact is crime's having a 209 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: huge impact on tourism and on locals right now. 210 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: It is an impact for some time now, and it 211 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: seems to be ramped up, and you know, we're looking at, 212 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: of course, as I mentioned, the immediate impacts of alcohol 213 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: availability again in a lot of those communities, and people 214 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: coming in and swarming the place to get their purchase 215 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: of alcohol, bring their kids in with them. We're seeing 216 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: the immediate impacts of that. We're seeing the transition into 217 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: the warmer weather as well, which usually there is a 218 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: spike around that time and around winter clime it usually 219 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: dies down. But we've not seen much of a die 220 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: down over the winter period, so that spike we're just 221 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: seeing the beginning of it now and if the government 222 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: doesn't step up, it's going to get worse. And you know, 223 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: I have to wonder at some point there's a community 224 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: call for you know, is it ADF that has to 225 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: step in, What is it the support that our police 226 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 2: need going forward? 227 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: So you reckon that it could be a point where 228 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: you literally could be at the point where the army 229 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: needs to be called in. 230 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly what it feels like, and you know, 231 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: and then you'll get the voices of people jump up 232 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: and down and say, oh, this is another intervention. However, 233 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: something drastic needs to happen because nothing is budging, nothing 234 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: is changing except for the fact that crime is increasing. 235 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: These are the things that we have to look at. 236 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: These are the things that we're being pushed into. We've 237 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: been pushed into a corner and now have to consider. 238 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: Well, just Enterprice, the COLP Senator for the Northern Territory. 239 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: We always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for 240 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: having a chat with us today. 241 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me Katie. 242 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: Thank you