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Speaker 1: Now, if you're listening to the week that was a

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Speaker 1: short time ago, you would have heard the interesting discussion

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Speaker 1: that we'd had with the Police Minister around new data

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Speaker 1: revealing an alarming decline in the number of constables in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Force compared to staffing levels ten

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Speaker 1: years ago. That's according to the Northern Territory Police Association.

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Speaker 1: Now there are currently eight hundred and sixty three full

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Speaker 1: time equivalent constables, twenty three less than in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: That's according to the stats, and those figures do cast

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Speaker 1: doubt on the government's claims that there are more police

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Speaker 1: on the beat than ever before. Now joining me in

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Speaker 1: the studio to break down these numbers, it is the

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Speaker 1: Police Association president Nathan Finn. Good morning, Nathan, Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Nathan, I'm sure that you probably heard the Police

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Speaker 1: Minister on the show earlier this morning. She reckons that

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Speaker 1: you know that these numbers that they're there from different

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Speaker 1: years and that if you go through some of the

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Speaker 1: other years you'll find that it's not as big a discrepancy.

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Speaker 1: But we've got more auxiliaries and we've got more sergeants.

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Speaker 1: From your perspective, how many constables do we have now

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Speaker 1: compared to twenty thirteen, Katie.

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Speaker 2: In fact, obviously, as we've discussed, yes that from the statistics,

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Speaker 2: we are actually down twenty three constables who do the

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Speaker 2: role each and every day and at the backbone of

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Speaker 2: the police force, they respond to the report of the

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Speaker 2: incidents from the public. We are down in those numbers.

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Speaker 2: We can talk about frontline offices, we can talk about

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Speaker 2: numbers in relation to how the government wants to play it.

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Speaker 2: They weren't in government. We were in government. It doesn't mean anything.

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Speaker 2: The reports that we're getting from our membership is we

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Speaker 2: have not got enough resources to do what we are doing.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a really interesting part here, and

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Speaker 1: we did try it, like we sort of had that

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Speaker 1: discussion a little earlier on the show as well, where

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Speaker 1: you know, we can sort of talk about how many

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Speaker 1: constables there were before, or how many police we've got

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Speaker 1: on the beat now. But the fact is we've got

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Speaker 1: a coronial inquest sets underway, and I know that that

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Speaker 1: is still running, so I'm very cognizant of that. But

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Speaker 1: we've got a coronial inquest where it was heard that

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Speaker 1: in some instances we're not able to get crews out

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Speaker 1: to some very serious incidents because there's not enough police.

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Speaker 1: We also have heard from people saying that, you know,

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Speaker 1: they've fronted up at a different police station and not

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Speaker 1: been able to see a police officer because the station's

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Speaker 1: not open. So, you know, while while the Minister is

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Speaker 1: defending those numbers, I think you've got a community and

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Speaker 1: you've got a police force saying well, hang on, we

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Speaker 1: need more of us to be able to do our jobs.

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Speaker 2: And the community has an expectations on the police that

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Speaker 2: when they ring, they're actually going to attend the jobs.

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Speaker 2: I can provide first hand comments in relations I was

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Speaker 2: watching them on prior to the start of this year

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Speaker 2: in relation to I've seen the jobs on the screen.

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Speaker 2: I've had to manage two hundred incidents on the screen

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Speaker 2: that we can't actually attend to yet because we haven't

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Speaker 2: got the resource to attend to. We had an incident

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Speaker 2: yesterday where a members contacted me where they put off

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Speaker 2: to another sector within Darwin who had no resources whatsoever,

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Speaker 2: and they had to cover that sector and they had

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Speaker 2: to attend up to forty domestic violence instance they still

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Speaker 2: hadn't been attended to and that's not Domestic violence is

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Speaker 2: our core business. There's a number of other matters that

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Speaker 2: get pushed back as well because of that and our

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Speaker 2: inability to attend domestic violence instance, Nathan, what is that

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Speaker 2: like for a police officer, because, as you've said, you know,

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Speaker 2: up until very recently, you're on the front line.

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Speaker 1: You know you're working as a watch commander, you're working

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Speaker 1: in different roles within the Northern Territory Police Force. What

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Speaker 1: is that like?

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Speaker 2: It's demoralizing. It's hard every day to prioritize and be

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Speaker 2: over two hundred incidents and make a split decision based

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Speaker 2: on the limited information you've got. For members to attend

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Speaker 2: that is more a priority than the next job. Domestics

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Speaker 2: a number one priority in the police force for us

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Speaker 2: to respond to. There's also unlawful entries that get pushed

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Speaker 2: down further in the list. There's also stolen motor vehicles

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Speaker 2: that we don't attend to for three or four days

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Speaker 2: in some instances. Is that the level of service we

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Speaker 2: need to provide to the community. Do they feel supported

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Speaker 2: in the community and our police are rocking out copying

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Speaker 2: the abuse from the members of the public in quite

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Speaker 2: rightfully so, but it still doesn't justify we should be

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Speaker 2: the brunt of that. We're trying to do the best

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Speaker 2: job with possibly you can. My members went across to

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Speaker 2: Casarini yesterday and they assisted in trying to reduce those

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Speaker 2: job numbers from Palmerston, and then about three quarters away

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Speaker 2: through the shift they get told can we have a

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Speaker 2: meal break? Oh no, you're not today. I'm sorry, But

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Speaker 2: members of the public and members of the government aren't

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Speaker 2: getting told that every day, and the health and well

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Speaker 2: being of our members is being sacrificed basically trying to

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Speaker 2: do the best job we possibly can. And it's frustrating

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Speaker 2: for our members, and it's frustrating for myself because I

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Speaker 2: know exactly what it's like. I've dealt with it. I've

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Speaker 2: been there on the front line. I still speak to

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Speaker 2: a lot of members in the front line.

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Speaker 1: I can hear the passion in your voice, like I

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Speaker 1: can actually hear it that it is something that is

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Speaker 1: really it's really hard for our police officers. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's the thing that you know, with the

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Speaker 1: minister and with decision makers that it seems to me

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Speaker 1: like that's what the police, those rank and file officers

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Speaker 1: want them to hear.

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Speaker 2: The challenge they have every day to prioritize and provide

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Speaker 2: the best level of service we possibly can to the community.

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Speaker 2: And we can't do that, and they're admitting that, but

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Speaker 2: they are trying to still do the best they can

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Speaker 2: with the limited resources we've got. And crime figures over

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Speaker 2: that last ten years, as you've heard, as it's been

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Speaker 2: widely known, have gone through the roof in that stage too,

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Speaker 2: and the number of reported instants have gone through the roof.

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Speaker 2: A number of triple zero calls have basically doubled in

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Speaker 2: four years. How do we respond to that. It's not

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Speaker 2: something that's new, it's something that's known, and it's been

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Speaker 2: happening for a long long time and the force is

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Speaker 2: at breaking point.

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Speaker 1: How vital are these constables?

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Speaker 2: They are the backbone of the police force. They're the

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Speaker 2: ones that when you bring up, they're the ones that

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Speaker 2: are going to be attending your job. And as much

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Speaker 2: as the front line is the government saying that the

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Speaker 2: frontline members and are auxiliary members and that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 2: they're not authorized to carry out investigations or respond to

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Speaker 2: first first incidents. They're here to support the police in

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Speaker 2: doing what they're role, and their role is very important

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Speaker 2: as well. But I can see that the number of

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Speaker 2: palis that stand at the front of the bottle shops

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Speaker 2: with very limited powers and haven't got no powers away

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Speaker 2: from that situation either really needs to be taken up

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Speaker 2: by other resources and that needs to be transitioned back

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Speaker 2: into constable positions, which we can't fill the positions anyway,

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Speaker 2: and there's a lack of numbers in relation to positions.

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Speaker 1: How do you reckon, oh, how do you sort of

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Speaker 1: think that we fill the shortfall in constables that we've

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Speaker 1: got and try to do that quickly.

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Speaker 2: It's recruitment. Recruitment is happening, but we need to do

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Speaker 2: more in the retention space. Retention is the biggest issue

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Speaker 2: we're currently having with experience in the police force. There's

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Speaker 2: a number of members choosing other employees above ours, not

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Speaker 2: simply because the stress that they're under. Most of them

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Speaker 2: are great police officers that do the best possible job

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Speaker 2: with what they've got and they're so resourceful in the

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Speaker 2: way they do their role, but the fact is they're

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Speaker 2: seeking alternative employment because the pressures that's been placed on

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Speaker 2: them over the last three or four years. As well,

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Speaker 2: the disimperary space needs to be worked on. The health

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Speaker 2: and wellbeing space needs to be worked on. But I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but you can't just keep going to work and expecting

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Speaker 2: more and more out of the staff that continually turn

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Speaker 2: up and then have a crack and when they make

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a mistake. And that's the sad

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Speaker 2: thing that's happening, and that has happened in the past.

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Speaker 2: And I'm working with the Acting Commissioner in relation to

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Speaker 2: that distimpery space and trying to prove that for our

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Speaker 2: members so there's more of a manage your approach, to

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Speaker 2: manage your conversations instead of punitive actions later on that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything to them now.

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Speaker 1: The Minister said on the show that this review is

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Speaker 1: about you know, it's going to get underway, and she

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Speaker 1: reckons that it's going to happen within the next six months.

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Speaker 1: Had you heard that before.

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Speaker 2: Katie, No. Unfortunately that conversation hasn't taken place. The reason

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Speaker 2: why I raise this again the resourcing issue is we

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Speaker 2: haven't heard from the game. They promised to sit down

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Speaker 2: with me, we still haven't reached out to a sim

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Speaker 2: relation to starting this review. We need to start it

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Speaker 2: as a matter of urgency. So our men feel supported

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Speaker 2: out there in the community doing their job that they

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Speaker 2: love every day, and we need to progress this now,

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Speaker 2: not waiting.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that really does seem to have

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Speaker 1: hit the mark is the comments that you'd made on

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Speaker 1: this show a few weeks ago where you said, you know, Katie,

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Speaker 1: we don't actually need the electronic rostering to be able

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Speaker 1: to get this review happening. They do seem to have

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Speaker 1: taken that on board, but from your perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Minister said this morning wants it to be done

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Speaker 1: and dusted within six months. Is is that fast enough? No?

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Speaker 2: Definitely not. The sooner the better in our eyes. But again,

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Speaker 2: if that's what they commit to, we're happy from that

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Speaker 2: make that commitment because we didn't have that on the

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Speaker 2: table previously. To make that commitment is an undertaking that

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Speaker 2: we're happy with. But we need to done asap and

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Speaker 2: we need to commence that body of work that's going

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Speaker 2: to take long.

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Speaker 1: Like how and why is that review so important? I mean,

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Speaker 1: based on what you've already said to me this morning,

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Speaker 1: I can understand it. But you know, if the Minister

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Speaker 1: or if the Chief minister's listening this morning, from your

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Speaker 1: perspective as somebody who's literally just stepped away from the

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Speaker 1: front line to step into this role as the Police

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Speaker 1: Association president. You know, why is that review so important

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Speaker 1: and why is it so important that it happens sooner

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Speaker 1: rather than later.

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Speaker 2: So it's not falling on deaf fears. Our members raise

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Speaker 2: this day in day out for years. The last few

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Speaker 2: years have been tremendously enormously hard for our membership for

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Speaker 2: them to get this and get this and then people

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Speaker 2: start believing what the statistics are showing them, what resource

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Speaker 2: allocation issues we do have, and for them to be

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Speaker 2: heard is the biggest thing. They're constantly saying this, They're

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Speaker 2: constantly reporting this to us. The managers and supervisor, even

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Speaker 2: the superintendents and the commanders within the organization are saying

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Speaker 2: the same thing, but nothing is happening to fix the

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Speaker 2: problem and provide that support back to the front line

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Speaker 2: where we need to be as the backbone of the

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Speaker 2: police force. We need to be responding to those incidents.

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Speaker 1: Nathan, just a quick one. I know that there's been

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Speaker 1: a couple of reports or a couple of people sort

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Speaker 1: of get in contact asking about the Nightcliffe Police Station

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Speaker 1: and whether it's open. Also, you know, speaking about whether Casuarina,

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Speaker 1: whether there are people manning that station when it is required.

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Speaker 1: Are like, are we in a situation where all are

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Speaker 1: police like this. I don't want to call them shopfronts.

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Speaker 1: They're not shops, but you know, like where they're actually

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Speaker 1: open and accessible if somebody does need to go in

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Speaker 1: and report something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely there's issues in relation to being available, being

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Speaker 2: open obviously to take calls from the public. Nightcliff Police

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Speaker 2: Station has seen a number of members moved into there,

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Speaker 2: but from other police stations and from other areas. It's

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Speaker 2: not a frontline opportunity. The acpos operate there from the

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Speaker 2: social order, the Youth Diversion Unit operate from there, and

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Speaker 2: the school based policing operate from there. However, not a

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Speaker 2: lot of our schools are in the Nightcliff area. Not

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Speaker 2: a lot of our social order problems are in the

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Speaker 2: Nightcliff area. They're predominantly in the Casarina, in the Palmerston,

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Speaker 2: in the Darwin CBD, so they're responding from there. So

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Speaker 2: the time taken to respond to there is that appropriate?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I believe if not, but again that's

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Speaker 2: a decision for the police. Management to how they direct

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Speaker 2: their resources and where they direct them from. But again,

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Speaker 2: I've seen it, I've dealt with it. I've managed those

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Speaker 2: situations previously where they're allocated to their local stations.

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Speaker 1: Hey, something did just think of as you're speaking then,

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Speaker 1: is the fact that we know it was revealed throughout

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Speaker 1: estimates as well, that we've got a situation at the

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Speaker 1: Dahn watch House where there a prisoner's being kept there

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Speaker 1: right now and Corrections had gone through those numbers. I

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Speaker 1: don't have them in front of me at this point,

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Speaker 1: but is like, does that have an impact or what

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Speaker 1: kind of impacts that having as well the fact that

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Speaker 1: that location is being used, or is it having an

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Speaker 1: impact operationally for the police.

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Speaker 2: It does have an impact, Katie. Our police obviously have

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Speaker 2: to travel from Darwin and Casarina out to Palmerston to

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Speaker 2: the watchhouse to use that facility. Again, I don't think

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Speaker 2: we've got enough resources to reopen that watchhouse, so technically

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Speaker 2: Corrections are taking advantage of our short fall currently and

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Speaker 2: utilizing the facility because of the overfilling of holts hat.

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Speaker 1: Another very quick one caught up with the Acting Assistant

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Speaker 1: Commissioner James O'Brien a bit earlier in the week, and

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Speaker 1: we're just talking about an assault on police officer situation

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Speaker 1: that had occurred a bit earlier in the week. And

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Speaker 1: then he'd mentioned that from his understanding, there'd been a

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Speaker 1: situation a couple of weeks ago where somebody had gone

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Speaker 1: through the court system after allegedly assaulting a female police officer.

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Speaker 1: Now his understanding was that person pled guilty and received

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Speaker 1: a two hundred dollar fine. Do you have much detail

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Speaker 1: on that.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie. I've dealt with the matter. I asked for

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Speaker 2: the matter to be appealed through the DPP and through police.

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Speaker 2: The officer contacted me. The disgusting sentence that was issued

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Speaker 2: at two hundred dollars was totally against everything we stand

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Speaker 2: for as police. We don't deserve to be assaulder. We

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Speaker 2: don't deserve to be doing our job every day and

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Speaker 2: to be assault in that matter and receive a two

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Speaker 2: hundred dollar fine, which a member of the police force

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Speaker 2: could have issued a bigger fine for a disorder behavior

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Speaker 2: right on the spot, and she would have got more

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Speaker 2: consequence than the assault that's taken place on her. It's

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Speaker 2: not just the that happens, it's the consequences of you

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Speaker 2: fearing that again and again when you're in the workplace

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Speaker 2: and knowing that nothing's going to be done about it,

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Speaker 2: which is disappointing to our members.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really struck me earlier in the week when

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Speaker 1: he'd said that, because I just thought to myself, you

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Speaker 1: know what, like that, it would have been incredibly disappointing

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Speaker 1: for police officers. I would have thought to have learned

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Speaker 1: that information.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and it's hard to deal with. On the

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Speaker 2: best of times. As police officers, we don't expect to

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Speaker 2: go to work and be assaulted, but the frank reality

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Speaker 2: is we are and the consequences of that, whether it's

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Speaker 2: serious or non serious, it carries on with you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and have a fear for you to do your job

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Speaker 2: every day thinking that when's the next time I'm going

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Speaker 2: to ge assaulted? And is this person going to be

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Speaker 2: held responsible for this? We hope so, but clearly it

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Speaker 2: doesn't all the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nathan Finn, the president of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for coming

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Speaker 1: in this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, and thank you to your listeners and

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Speaker 2: to all the members out there of the police force.

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Speaker 2: We've got your back. Keep doing the good job you're doing.

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Speaker 1: Thank'e. Nathan