WEBVTT - Kick Gurry - CAUGHT - Actor Writer Producer Creator 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:03.640 TV Reload the podcast past week. 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:04.000 Maline. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.320 Welcome back guys to TV Reload. As you may know, 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:08.880 my name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.200 to get all the inside goss on the popular TV 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.160 shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.800 our TV's that's a major part of our home entertainment, 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.560 and yet very little is known about how our favorite 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.759 shows get made. So each episode I've been finding guests 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:24.560 that want to dive just that little bit deeper into 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.000 the shows they're currently making, so that you can hear 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.600 all their exclusive stories and gain access to some of 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.960 the biggest names in Australian television. I want to thank 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.960 you for downloading all subscribing to this podcast however you've 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.319 found me. I love hearing your feedback, so make sure 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.280 you leave a review or a comment on your chosen 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.879 podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have Kick Gurry, an 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.600 Australian actor who has been on our screens for over 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.240 two decades. Is start alongside Tom Cruise, Christina Richie, Pa 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.000 Miranda and so many others in a career that he 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.320 has collected relationships and connections that has led him to 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.080 this series we're here to talk about today. Court is 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.520 a brainchild that came out of the Melbourne Locke Downs. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.080 Kick picked up the interest of Sean Penn, signed him 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.479 up as an executive producer, signed up friends Matthew Fox, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.440 Alexander London, Lincoln Unis, amongst many others. Not to mention 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.480 Susan Sarandon and Brian Brown, both cinematic legends right across 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.760 the globe. Court sees four Australian soldiers sent on a 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.560 mission to a war torn country who were captured by 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.000 freedom fighters who they convinced to produce a hostage video 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.440 that goes viral. It is a satirical comedy. Even though 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.520 you listen to that and think what is going on? 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.160 You kind of have to watch it to believe it. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.679 But it is a bold choice and they go for 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:39.280 last where most filmmakers would not dare. Kick is the writer, producer, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.840 director and star of Court, and I can't wait to 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.880 hear how this all came together. I will talk to 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.840 Kick about gaining the interest of Sean Penn and how 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.040 his involvement affected the production of the show. Kick will 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.440 talk about the essence of the series and how Court 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.920 reflects modern society in terms of who we are on 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.000 social media and the pathway to everyone now wanting to 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.160 be famous. Along the way, we will unpack the giant 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.320 penis scene which you might have seen in the trailer, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.360 and Kick will reveal how many people were allowed on 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.519 set for that naked shoot. Plus we will get plenty 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.120 of exclusives from behind the scenes of Caught, which comes 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.000 out on Stann Australia September twenty eighth. So make sure 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.280 you are subscribed to stand for this because it is 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.560 quite hilarious. Anyway, let's bring Kick into the podcast, and 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.960 I hope you enjoyed this chat, even though you can 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.679 hear that I have a cold and it makes me 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.079 sound like I'm seriously talking from underwater. Anyway, let's bring 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.480 Kick in. How are you very excited to talk to you? 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:34.320 Very excited to talk to you, Benjamin. Yeah, and I'm 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.200 doing good. Just feeling the heat in Sydney yesterday and 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.040 today actually, which is very strange in September. 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.320 But no, it's a very exciting time, you know, to have. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.880 There's a lot of people in my line and work 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.239 who dream of this moment, and I certainly for twenty 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.200 five years have dreamed of telling my own story and 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:56.240 having something that I created. So I'm really just trying 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.120 to soak it all in. It's a very special five 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.440 years of a career for me, which has been filled 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:07.040 with far more disappointment and failure than success, and you 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.079 sort of bake that into your soul and you kind 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.640 of have to get your head around the idea that 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.640 this moment will never happen, that you'll never get to 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.360 tell your own story. That's unfortunately the journey we're on 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.480 as artists. So I'm very grateful for having forgetting to 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:21.160 have this moment. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.160 Oh my god. I mean, I've been in your audience 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.120 for so long. It was funny. I was actually just 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.640 looking at your IMDb and I remember watching like wild Side, 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.840 Sea Change, all of these performances. I remember seeing a 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.200 previous screeting of Looking for Ola Brandy about four months 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.400 before it was released. It was like screening for it, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.760 and I was so familiar with that book, and I 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.560 thought that the casting in that movie was brilliant. So 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.080 you've been in my life the whole time. And I 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.400 guess when you are an actor, you're sort of measuring 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.360 yourself up against your successes. But for me, it seems 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.840 like you've always been amazing. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.640 You would be wildly inaccurate in that. Remember that's your 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.720 that's that's your that's your reality. That's bad. I wish 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:03.480 I could live in that. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.240 But no, I just in some ways, I wouldn't really 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.720 change much about the journey. I've been so lucky to 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.080 have worked on the things I have, and I've always 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.799 had a real instinct to drift towards things like wild 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.159 Side and Sea Change, and that wasn't by choice early 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.400 in my career, they were the first jobs I got. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.040 But working with Kerry Armstrong and John Howard on Sea Change, 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.560 and Tony Martin and Alex Demitriartis on wild Side, Rachel Blake, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.599 I mean, I was a young actor and just I 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:33.400 just couldn't believe I was getting to work with these 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.440 people and real heroes of mine. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.600 And yeah, just just lucky the whole the whole way through. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.880 Then getting to work with you know, there were Chowski's 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.200 on movies, and getting to do a little role in a. 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:44.159 Movie with Tom Cruise. 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.160 I mean, so many of the the you know, But 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.599 but I just don't want to sort of pretend like 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.080 that's been the whole journey that the year and a 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.359 half before you get those moments is a lot of 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.400 disappointment and failure and a lot of people asking you 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.599 if you're still acting. 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.120 Hey, are you still acting? And you sort of go, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.040 oh god. It takes a toll, but yeah, I wouldn't 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:02.960 change much of it. 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.800 Well, I love your courage to tell bold stories. I 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.720 mean this new story. You know, I found this quote 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.240 about someone saying how audacious it is, but I mean 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.040 it is a six part series, very satirical, It's a 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.880 great story for Stan Australia. It's like nothing I think 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.920 audiences have ever seen before. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.960 Yeah, and that was very much the plan, Benjamin. 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.920 I have an insatial appetite for sort of original things, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.479 and they're the things that I love when something's new 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.000 and you I think for me that the way we've 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.080 drifted as storytellers, if you look at the world as 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.640 a whole, is I think for some reason, the tail 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.160 started wagging the dog in that I think people started 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:41.960 to want to know what they were watching when they 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.240 were watching it. They want to know, they sort of 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.039 want to know the lens they're watching it through. And 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.640 I've always loved my favorite thing in life is when 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.920 you're at a dinner, you're hanging out on a tram 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.040 or a train, and you're hearing someone tell a story 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.440 and you have no idea where they're going with it. 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.400 That's what I love the most, and there's a danger 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.359 in that because it could be headed some where that 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.480 you don't lie, and I do think we've lost as 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:09.080 an entertainment community. We've lost slightly first for provocation, and 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.159 I don't necessarily think provocation is a bad thing in 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:17.000 I love art to provoke ideas and thoughts, and I 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.080 personally think art has played a huge role in where 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.479 we've evolved to as a society, which I think is 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.720 certainly a more equitable one, and one focused on that 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.880 people of different cultures, different ways of life, different genders, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.279 different sexual orientations should be embraced as magical and special 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.160 for their differences. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.720 Rather than weird and you're you know you're the other. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.240 I think we've certainly drifted towards that, and I think 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:47.680 hopefully we can keep doing that. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.680 But I think art has played a big role in 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:50.680 that drift, and I. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.800 Think we need provocative stories to keep that push going 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:55.880 because we need people to you need people to sit 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.000 around the table and debate and convince each other. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.479 Of good ideas. Aren't just say something is. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.640 A good idea and then everyone goes like, oh yeah, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.159 you need smart people having good conversations to get there. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.040 So yeah, this show hopefully was my contribution to that 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.960 of I mean, there's certainly some ludicrous elements which. 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.440 Child here for Billy. Yeah, me too. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.640 I was talking to your friend Claire Lovering and she 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.560 was saying that you were working on this during lockdown 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.320 and that you know, you kept saying, Oh, I'm gonna 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:27.800 have Sean pen involved and I'm going to do this, 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.800 and I'm going to do that, and it seemed so 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.520 outrageously ambitious that she was like, oh yeah. But then 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.960 she said, you know you've pulled it off. Is this 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.880 a project? Is this your love child from the COVID 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:38.920 lockdowns in Australia? 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.520 Very much? So yeah, we we. 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.440 I thought of the idea just before COVID And in 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.640 a way, you know, it's a bit uncouth to say 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.400 COVID was a blessing because it was a devastating thing 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.240 for everybody and including me, But within it that all 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.920 that time and doing nothing for you know, six months, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:58.880 I was in the Melbourne lockdown, I just sort of 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:00.840 put my head down and just kept writing the show, 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.320 and then we would do a table read every week, 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:04.400 which Claire was a part of. 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.600 On some of them, we were all in lockdown around Australia. 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.560 We'd all get on Zoom, which I'd never heard of, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.320 but we'd get on Zoom and we'd do a table 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.280 read of these scripts that I was writing, and some 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.559 were bad, some were good, some were fun, some weren't, 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:17.160 but it was all great for us because we had 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.800 nothing else to do. And then yeah, on the on 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.840 the back side of it, now here it is ready 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.160 to roll, and yeah, Claire's right, and the ambition of 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:25.680 it kind of just. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:26.480 Kept growing growing. 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.320 It was pretty crazy because Sean got in Champagne got 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.280 involved early on, and once he was involved, it sort 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.200 of felt like, well, if that's the outer marker, then 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.640 everything's in play, you know. So the ambition kind of 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.920 grew and grew and grew, and it did make me 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.080 really proud. Last night we watched it with the crew 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.200 and it just made me really proud that because it 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.920 was an almost impossible feat to pull off, not for me, 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:49.600 for me personally, it. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:50.520 Wasn't my difficulty. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.319 It was me saying to them, this is what I 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.360 want to do, and the crew just pulled it off. 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.920 The organizational structure, the sort of know how and the 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.680 sort of motivate to say, let's do it what you 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.640 know is just spellbinding. Was it was a miracle and 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:06.760 I'm so proud of them all. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.000 Did you have actors in mind for the roles? I mean, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.160 were you're writing stuff and thinking, well, Brian Brown, who 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.400 was an Australian legend, you know, he has to play 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.960 the prime minister. I mean, did you know that those people? 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:18.880 I mean, did you have those people in place? Did 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:19.760 you have them in mind? 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.320 No one, I'm definitely in mind, but no one was 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.040 in place. But every role was written for the actor 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.680 that played those roles. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.559 So certainly as I was right. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.240 I mean, Brian, I've known him for over twenty years 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.640 and you really when you're he's such an incredible thinker 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.600 and a problem solver, and I've always thought, you know, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:39.960 he'd be such a great prime minister. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.840 But there's not that much humor in Brian bringing a great. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.240 Prime minister, and so I wanted him to play a 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.320 bit of an idiot, which he was more interested in 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:49.440 playing because he's real life. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.720 His owner is a wild intellect. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:53.280 So for him it was a fun chance to come 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.040 and play against Taipe and played this real idiot he 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.720 doesn't know what's going on, which felt like it pope 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.440 fun of a political system that didn't feel like we 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.680 drifted too far into satire. To be honest, it felt 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.280 like it was almost realistic. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.400 Well, some of the things you could just believe happening, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.400 I mean, the ridiculousness of the Today Show with Karl 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.280 Stefanovic and Bindio and but Mindio and like, there's lots 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:21.360 of things in place that are ridiculous, but they're kind 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.240 of a piss take on the realities of what it's 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.680 like to actually be in some of those situations. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:26.079 Oh, no doubt. 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.120 And I do think, benjam we've drifted into an absurd 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.520 reality that we're all living in and we're sort of 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.920 not commenting on it in a way. And I felt 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.440 like those scenes for me was meant they were my 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.800 sort of reflections on the absurdity of what we're doing 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.160 in the world. And as you say, like you watch 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:46.840 them and you go, well, this isn't really it's not 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.760 really that exaggerated. I mean, Matthew Fox sort of inspired 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.080 the Sean on the Today Show scene because Matthew he 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.120 was on a show somewhere and he got told he 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.600 was going to promote last and suddenly they brought out 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.640 these puppets, and he didn't know what was going on, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.520 and he was suddenly interacting with these puppets, and he 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.880 didn't know I think it was in a foreign country 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:08.880 and he didn't speak the language, so he didn't know 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.320 whether what he was doing was meant to be funny 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.720 or whether they were doing a sort of a satire 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.720 or if it was real. And he's suddenly with these puppets. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.960 And we always laugh about that story, me and him, 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.640 So that scene is sort of based on that well. 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.720 And actually, you know, I was going to jump in 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.120 there and say, you know, I was on a reality 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.160 show which I won, and then the next day I 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.600 was on the Today Show with these people, and I 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.400 thought I was there for like an interview, but they 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.560 really threw me in at the last part while they 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.360 were cooking prawns, and they quickly asked me about this 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.800 whole experience. But with no TV experience with live television 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.040 like that, I felt like this whole thing was just 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.400 so ridiculous. I was like, here was me thinking I 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.880 was getting some sort of Andrew Denton sit down interview 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.320 about my experience, and then all of a sudden, it 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.120 was something completely different. It was like not just one thing, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.200 it was like three things added in, which made me 0:11:58.280 --> 0:11:59.920 laugh so hard at this whole thing. 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.520 I think that the line, you know, reality TV, I 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.120 think Big Brother was really the first one. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.320 I remember when that that that came out when I 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:08.120 started acting. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.240 So this birth of reality TV happened at the same 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.199 time that I was becoming an actor, and I think 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.120 reality TV was sort of that first ten years, and 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.120 then that morphed into social media because I think reality 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.880 TV gave birth to the idea that it's sort of 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.559 we lost the mythology of or the myth of that 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:32.400 famous people. But no, but no that. But I think 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.600 it's quite a simple thing because I think human beings 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.000 are just fascinated by human beings. It's it's what separates 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.320 us is that there's a line in it in court 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.240 about Iguanas don't tell stories. They don't tell each other 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:45.280 what just happened. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.200 We do. We share our experience, and in a way 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:49.000 it's a very. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.720 Exposing vulnerable place to go to to go on Big Brother, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.520 And I think people think it's about. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.120 Fame and you know, trying to get famous, But I don't. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.160 I don't think that's really when I watch really TV, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.400 I don't when I used to. I don't think that 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:05.040 was most people involved in that sort of motivation. I 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.720 don't think that you were going on there to become famous. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.560 I think you were going on there. I don't know 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.360 this for sure. I'm being very presumptuous, but my observation 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.280 was that people are going on to tell stories, to 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.120 share and connect, and filming it was sort of a 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.680 way to you know, immortalize it in a way it'll 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.880 be forever. We sort of care about legacy and what 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.320 will my story be if I don't tell it in 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.360 a way that gets recorded. And then that morphed into 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.439 social media, which became everyone. So suddenly it wasn't just 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.240 the people on reality TV, like you, it was everyone. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.440 It was everyone at school going like here's my holiday 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.280 in Europe. And group emails. When group emails started and 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.480 people started sending a group email to their whole email 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.080 list about like, oh I'm in Europe and I'm doing 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.280 this and I remember thinking, why they're telling everyone this 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:51.920 and they couldn't be bothered writing. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.000 But then and I think storytelling became, you know, morphed 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:56.960 into something else. And I don't think. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.360 We've necessarily there hasn't been a show that I've seen 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.040 that as that drift in society. So I felt like 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.400 this show, for me, was me trying to start a 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.080 conversation and hopefully provoke a conversation around because I do 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.000 think that in the story, like he wants to become 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.480 famous to save his daughter. I don't think that's an 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:16.480 unrealistic goal. 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:17.680 No, no, no, think that's. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.560 The thing that made me laugh so loud because the 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.200 whole absurdity of a blue tick. You know, you guys 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.600 mock it so well. I mean, Justine Clark is so 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.480 great because she's playing that role straight. And not to 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.280 give too much away because I want people to enjoy 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.720 that scene and unpack it when they see it, but 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.840 I just loved the ridiculousness of how accurate that was. 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.600 She was like, well you need help. Well I had 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.920 this person for maths come in who raised one hundred. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.000 You know, the whole thing was just so ridiculous but 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:45.680 extraordinarily accurate. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.880 Yeah, And I think that's a thing that we're wrestling 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.000 with as individuals in life, and that we're trying to 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.440 work out where the moral compass sits on all of that, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.640 because we surely we don't want to live in a 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.240 world where a child can be saved by some one 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.200 from maths but not saved by our own medical system. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.200 And we've sort of drifted. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.080 Into that place, and you say, well, how do we 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.080 get out of that place? 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.560 And the thing for me about the commentary on social 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:13.120 media is. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:18.360 Sort of that we've created a machine that could save 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.760 the world, but we haven't figured out how to use 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.480 it yet. So I see social media as an enormously 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.680 positive thing. When you saw the Arab spring, when you 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:27.680 see movements. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.280 Shamefully, I can't remember it was it about. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.400 It was about gay marriage, I think when everyone changed 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.520 their their profiles, the flag, those things are so powerful 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.040 as an information source, as a movement, and so we've 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.080 sort of created this engine that can be this powerful 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.240 agent of change, but as a society, we've sort of 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.600 lost control of it at the wheel and it's just 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.520 running wild now, and it feels to me like it's 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.960 probably more of a negative at the moment than it 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.880 is a positive overall, and I wish we could figure 0:15:58.880 --> 0:15:59.960 out how to drive it properly. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.600 Yeah. I think that the problem with it all is 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.600 the narcissism of social media. I think that if smarter 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.120 people wanted to use it, well maybe they don't want 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.680 to use it because it feels too self indulgent, do 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.200 you know what I mean? Like, you really do have 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.080 to put yourself on the line to put yourself out 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.360 there with a particular cause, And because there are so 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.120 many people with a glutton for fame and a glutton 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.080 for attention, it probably distracts a lot of the other 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.600 people from wanting to use that space in a way 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.200 that could benefit other people. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:30.960 Yeah, I think so. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.800 And I think it gave everyone a voice. I mean 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.200 when I was a kid, if someone wanted to say 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.160 something bad about you, they wrote it on the toilet 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.440 the bathroom stall on the wall. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.160 Yeah, you know, kick going. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.000 Dickhad and you'd sort of be upset when you'd go 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.280 into the toilet you'd see it, but only the people 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.120 that went to the toilet saw it. And it was 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.840 sort of it was it was sort of caged in 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.680 its own demise because it was written on a toilet wall. 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.360 So but then we created social media and now everyone 0:16:59.400 --> 0:16:59.880 can say. 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:05.600 Anything about anyone anywhere, and it doesn't have it has 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.760 an air of validity to it online for some reason. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.360 It's not like a toilet wall. People read things, they 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.640 think it's real, and I think, yeah, I think there's 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.439 a danger to it that yeah, we haven't quite figured 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.159 out yet, and I do think then I call it 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.480 the nacissistic cyclone. I've had many friends get lost in 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.520 it where they're just posting things about themselves. Everyone's commenting 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.679 on it, and they're just in this swirling idea of 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.000 meanness and they don't they can't look out and see 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:34.840 the beautiful, wide world out there. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.040 Well, it's hard. I think you're putting value on something 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.119 in a different way. I remember after doing something like 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.800 Big Brother, it was just as social media started, and 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.399 I remember I posted a photo every day for like 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.520 twelve months, like something for my life. But I realized 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.280 my life was about curating this photo after a while, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.600