WEBVTT - Are We Scared Of Misandry? 😬 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:03.400 Flex and Frooms, Flex and Frooms. 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:07.800 This is the Flex and Froomes catch up podcast. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.080 Flex and Frooms on Cada. I hate to be bringing 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.879 the conversation here, but I'm so happy we've arrived. We're 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.440 talking about misogyny versus massandry. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.200 I will say I never I'll never forget. When I 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.240 was in year eleven, I called my mom a Messandras 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.640 because she she showed some slight feminist qualities. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.800 WHOA like Mom? No Messandras. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.479 So Google defines misogyny as the dislike of, or contempt for, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.760 or ingrained prejudice against women, and then defines massandry as 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.960 a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against men. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.640 There's this TikTok creator who's made a name for herself 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.200 by making this kind of reactionary content on the app, 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.360 so she's basically like a comedic Messandress. Gives her audience 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.200 tips and tricks, some ingest, some completely serious on how 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.120 to essentially undermine men by punching down right. And so 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.839 I guess, like the reason why her content feels so 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:12.080 salacious is I can imagine when it comes to calling 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:13.760 out men, a lot of women have been told to 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.120 take the highroad, right, like, don't stoop, but she's like, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.200 when they go low, I go lower. Here are the 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.880 tips and tricks, and it's quite funny, right, And so 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.160 I was thinking about how like when I read the 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.600 comments of these posts, there are people there who are 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.679 of the belief that it's the same, like misogyny is 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.720 the same as massandry. And as a woman, if you 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.000 are making fun of men in any way or using 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.840 the same tools and references that they use against them, 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.560 that you are succumbing to them, or you're what's the 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.440 word I'm looking for, like you're perpetuating, perpetuating them, or 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.320 you'll make your normalizing it. And it's counterintuitive. And if 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.560 you want misogyny to go away, then you need to, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.360 you know, fight fire with kindness, et cetera, et cetera, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.640 et cetera. Now I have a lot of thoughts on that, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.360 but I think the main one is I don't know 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.960 if people will be able to understand the humor in 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.840 massandry if they don't understand the real life impacts of misogyny. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.960 I feel like a lot of people regard misogyny as 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.760 a thing that only the most extreme of terrible people 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.600 do like only that really outright in cell woman hater 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.040 would ever be misogynists. And I hate to be the 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.400 one to tell you, but if you were raised in 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.400 a patriarchy, you currently there's no doubt. I put money 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.520 on it. But we don't connoe gambling. We do not 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.040 that you are battling some kind of misogyny, internalized or otherwise. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.720 And I feel that's why sometimes we don't really know 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.160 how to position, if, how and where massandry fits. Like, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.720 is massandry a fair response for misogyny? Is it taking 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.000 it too far? Is exactly what we need to balance 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.760 the scales. I feel as though the reason why people 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:58.840 are so shocked when people are publicly massandrist is because 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.519 they've found a way to play misogyny so far so 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.160 that suddenly you're seeing it for what it is. Sometimes 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.360 it can be brutal, unfair, uninformed, or like hit you 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.320 like whiplash, But you don't feel that when it comes 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.720 to misogyny, because it's become this very neutral thing. It's 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:20.200 very neutral for people to see women as being uninformed 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.200 or inferior, or not as powerful or not as capable 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.720 of wielding violence in the same way I think we'll 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.639 have this conversation off air, you and I three me. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:30.840 I think people should be way more scared of women. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.080 I know a lot of women who make a conscious 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.240 effort to tamp down their violent nature, Like who suppress 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.840 it because it's not appropriate, right, or a lot of 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.960 women who have to talk themselves out of being as 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.040 crazy as they want to or as reactive as they 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.760 want to for the benefit of the greater vibe. And 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.160 if women worldwide weren't doing that, if every woman had 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.400 permission to be crazy like their male counterparts, what I 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.960 would be sad because you don't. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.360 Know and you don't see you were saying that. This morning, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.760 I watched a clip by Clementine Ford. She had stitched 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.320 with a guy, one of those like motivational self help 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.720 kind of like guys, and he's like, when she's angry, 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.840 let your woman be in her feminine anger, right thing, 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.680 And like Clementine, as she always does, fantastically kind of 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.760 like pulled the argument apart and was like, if men 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.920 like this think that women getting angry is part of 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:31.000 like their feminine need, then it like totally discredits their anger. 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.479 I do wonder though this TikTok credit that you're talking about. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.880 I know where. I like her. I think she's really funny. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.840 Do we think though, maybe pointing out like the things 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.000 that men do that are really shit and like doing 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.159 it in a joke way, like we've all heard the 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:48.560 certain same things that are. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.640 Like like, what's an example, put. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:55.880 Your hand on a smaller woman's back, call his interests stupid. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:57.960 Yeah yeah, yeah, stuff like that. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.799 Tell him he needs to smile more, or ask him 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.000 if the reason why he didn't get a promotion at 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.800 work was due to the way that like he dresses 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:06.400 or something. 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.880 See that's amazing, but thank you, that was off the dome. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.039 I will say, there's a different type that's like pointing 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.240 out the bad stuff that like. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.200 His receding hairline exactly. 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.960 And that makes me think, like, is pointing out this 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.599 finally I've used like scribbling on my notepad for something 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.279 I actually have a thought, Yeah, note to that is 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:30.600 pointing out bad stuff that men do, or like negligent 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.080 things that men do, just reinforcing the idea that that's 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.880 in their nature. Do you think, like I wonder, like 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.560 I wonder if some men would then watch that and 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:42.280 be like, oh, yeah, all men are like that's why 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:43.720 I can just continue to be like that, Yeah, it's 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:43.960 not good. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.680 But do you feel the same way, like when you 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.120 see rhetoric on the internet being like women are inherently 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.599 feminine and empathetic and like all women just want to 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.840 find someone to fix and like caretake and you know 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:57.840 every woman I know wants to be looked after by 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.240 a strong man or whatever. Do you find yourself of 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.800 being like yeah, like I guess that is me, or 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.520 do you say like, oh, I can see that, but like, nah, 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:06.320 that's not for me. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:08.960 I think I can do that. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.640 But the difference is they're mostly they're not like harmful 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:14.800 things that women do. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.600 M I see what you're saying, Like I think in 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.479 some instances, but I often think a lot of these 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.719 arguments become obsolete when we assume that the adult hearing 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.880 them is without agency for sure, And like I keep 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.680 going back, like men made patriarchy and capitalism and sexism 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.800 and racism, and these systems like work well like unfortunately, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.440 well do you know what I mean, to the point 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.400 where you don't even know that you're participating, and you're like. 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.640 Your front lines, you're recruiting. 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:42.800 So I just refuse to believe that we're like, well, 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.400 if we point out when so and so does so 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.279 and so, are we just normalizing. It's like no, I 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.080 think that the system like telling us so like to 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.159 point it out is just it's it's a futile But 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.960 what I will say is that I feel like, make 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.680 the content do whatever, because I feel as though what 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.000 stops people from changing or evolving is they're getting shielded 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.160 from the message they need to receive the most. So, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.120 you know, like when you're let's say, when you're in 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.080 high school whatever, and people like you don't talk about 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.240 periods in front of like people don't have periods, like 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.880 it's just inappropriate. It's like, well, now we're adults and 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.920 they don't have the information. You're kind of like, well, 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.320 when are they going to seek it out right? Or 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.160 let's not talk about sexism in front of the person 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.080 who's oppressing us, let's not talk about race with white people. 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:28.880 It's like, okay, so we can stop doing that. But 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.920 then we get to a point where these conversations to 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.560 reach boiling point and we have to start. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:37.200 From scratch scratch sh. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.240 And then what But while those conversations are happening, I 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.400 definitely think that like, not everyone can do this widespread work, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.920 Like whether or not you think misogyny content massndry content 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:49.320 has a. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:49.920 Place to live. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.920 The way that it's reaching a ton of people at 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.800 once and starting these like bubbling conversations all at once 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.360 need to happen only if we as individuals are finishing 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.600 the work. I know of a lot of people who 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:05.280 would be the first to make masondurie content and misogyny content, 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.559 but wouldn't say anything in their own circles. And I'm like, wow, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.360 what are we doing? What are we doing? 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.560 I both relate to and see this happen in the wild. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.480 In the wild, it is the feeline high value woman 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.640 tried to fertile. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:23.960 After all the trade wife jokes. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:25.680 I don't know if I spoke about this last week, 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:27.680 but I actually went and did some googling on what 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.880 a trade wife means, and it's simply no laughing matter. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.720 I'm just like the idea of like chilling at home, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.840 like I'm working from home guys thru me. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.880 Actually did some research and you wouldn't believe what I found. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.079 Okay, I'm being serious. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:45.720 But I'm with you. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.280 Yeah, I think it is so funny how it's literally 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:54.400 so hard to do these things in practice. A because 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.199 it's bothersome, b because it's uncomfortable. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.120 Do you know when it stops getting hard, though, like 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:01.800 when you're actually impacted by it in a way that 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.120 you're like, oh, I wish I didn't have to go 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.520 through that. When I was finishing high school, I met 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.199 a lot of women who were like, I'm not a feminist, 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:08.840 I could never be one. And it's like you just wait, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.280 like you wait, your time will calm, Your time will 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.800 calm because while we all formed touchrap of being like 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.360 it doesn't impact me, so I'm not gonna be bothered 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.319 by it, and that everybody's prerogative. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:20.319 Like I'm down with that. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.560 There's a lot of things to not care about in 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.120 life or to care a lot about. But and I've 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.320 been thinking about misogyny a lot because the older I get, 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.640 and I look at the lack of community, especially in womanhood, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.439 like I look at brotherhood a lot, I'm like, what 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.959 do you people have to be so loyal about? Like 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.360 when I look at the connections between men and men, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:39.520 I'm like, you didn't. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:39.840 Even work for that. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.439 You need to work for that, And the rest of 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.960 us are putting in hard yards with our little sisterhoods 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:46.840 and being like, what is where's the friction coming from? 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:48.560 Where's friction coming from? It's like, oh, because the friction 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:48.959 is on the. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.960 Path to like this like amazing utopia. But also there's 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.000 so much to learn about the way that we are 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.400 so neutral towards misogyny, or the way that it's laughable, 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.439 the way that people don't laugh at missandry. So like, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.480 let's talk, get out, giggles up, let's start giggling, gigle, giggle. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.440 So when I say he's got a receding hairline, don't 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.680 start defending this imaginary man who's got a receding hairline 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.360 because it's coming Like I don't like that I talk 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.360 about some imaginary man receding hairline. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.960 People are up in arms, like, I don't know, it's mean, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.480 it's mean. I'm in a mean camp. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.080 He doesn't exist, No, he does, though I don't know. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:24.960 That's where I draw one but you. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:30.000 But someone's like calls a woman like an empty head bimbo, 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.160 and everyone's like, what I mean? 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:32.440 Is she? 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.600 So? Now we're now we're inquisitive. Does he have a 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.000 receding hairline? Potentially? Like I want people to go for 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:41.520 bat for women like they do for men. 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.599 I do feel like the sisterhood comes easier than the brotherhood. 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.520 We have sisterhoods. I don't know if I can trust her, 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:49.319 trust her? 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.320 Can you trust him? 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.320 The becas going for inside that trust him and I 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:57.440 love him whoever he is. 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.520 You've been listening to the Flex and Rooms Daily podcast. 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.359 For more, tune Indicator on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.