WEBVTT - A Gun To The Head

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<v Speaker 1>Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdicts against all three defendants.

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<v Speaker 2>It was actually shambles, to tell you the truth, just

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<v Speaker 2>actually really.

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<v Speaker 3>Heaving blood on his clothing the day after the alleged

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<v Speaker 3>a top on.

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<v Speaker 4>A shallow mud bank and it fits through a river.

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<v Speaker 5>Basically, I think most of the people are used to

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<v Speaker 5>me are good people.

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<v Speaker 4>I think a really important question we need to ask

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<v Speaker 4>is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the

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<v Speaker 3>blinds to shine a light on.

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<v Speaker 1>The darkest parts of our justice system and ask who

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<v Speaker 1>are the victims.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm Amy Maguire and.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner

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<v Speaker 4>Support Service. And a warning. This series contains the names

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<v Speaker 4>of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset

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<v Speaker 4>some listeners.

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<v Speaker 5>This week, BuzzFeed News published a special report. Its title

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<v Speaker 5>was care Henry Forced to Confess. An Aboriginal man who

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<v Speaker 5>has been locked up for a quarter of a century

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<v Speaker 5>for a murder he says he did not commit. Says

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<v Speaker 5>police held a gun to his head and threatened to

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<v Speaker 5>dispose of him. Off the top of a mountain if

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<v Speaker 5>he did not confess to the crime. The reporter for

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<v Speaker 5>that piece was my co host Amy maguire. Amy, obviously,

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<v Speaker 5>today is the biggest revelation in Kevin Henry's case and

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<v Speaker 5>will come as a big revelation to all those who

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<v Speaker 5>have been listening to the Curtain podcast and what's happened

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<v Speaker 5>to Kevin Henry. Can you tell us a little bit

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<v Speaker 5>about how you first heard about this accusation that Kevin's made.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but even.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we began this potocast series and even before we

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<v Speaker 1>began investigating it, we've been aware of his allegation.

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<v Speaker 4>It came very early on.

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<v Speaker 1>And Kevin Henry continually started this allegation and ever since

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<v Speaker 1>he was first incarcerated.

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<v Speaker 7>So you would have heard on this podcast a lot

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<v Speaker 7>about the confession that Kevin allegedly gave to the police

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<v Speaker 7>three days after Lyondo was man a lot of them

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<v Speaker 7>of this droop, and he wouldn't have heard all of

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<v Speaker 7>the analysis we've done and all of the information we've

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<v Speaker 7>given you about why we're going to leave.

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<v Speaker 3>That confession was a co worst.

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<v Speaker 8>But the allegation that Kevin Harry has continually made was

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<v Speaker 8>while he was being interrogated by the two investigating detectors

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<v Speaker 8>in the watchhouse that day during one of the one

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<v Speaker 8>of the three instances when the tape was turned off

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<v Speaker 8>and afterwards Kevin Henry changed is his story. One of

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<v Speaker 8>the police officers, actually, Paul had gone to his head

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<v Speaker 8>and it turned it into the dispo disposed of him

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<v Speaker 8>of mountsha And we've known about that allegation for a

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<v Speaker 8>very long time, but.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been we were able to report it until now.

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<v Speaker 1>So mind you a little bit to our listeners about

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<v Speaker 1>why we didn't bring you that allegation earlier on in

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<v Speaker 1>our investigation.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah. Absolutely, As people can understand, this is a huge

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<v Speaker 5>revelation in Kevin's case and it has enormous implications for

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<v Speaker 5>trying to get Kevin freedom and to prove his innocence.

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<v Speaker 5>But we didn't want to just release this information on

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<v Speaker 5>an allegation. We wanted to investigate this thoroughly and make

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<v Speaker 5>sure when we finally did expose what happened, that we

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<v Speaker 5>had all the documents and paperwork, the full pay per

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<v Speaker 5>trayal dating back all the way to when Kevin Henry

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<v Speaker 5>was arrested, his trial, and all the complaints that have

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<v Speaker 5>been made by Kevin over the years about exactly what happened.

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<v Speaker 5>So it would have been easy to simply make this

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<v Speaker 5>claim early on, but then who would take us seriously?

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<v Speaker 5>Making such a serious allegation requires evidence, And now that

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<v Speaker 5>we have that, and we were satisfied we'd covered everything

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<v Speaker 5>we could, now we were ready to reveal this allegation,

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<v Speaker 5>and for long term listeners have curtain the podcast, I

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<v Speaker 5>think instantly everything we've discussed previously will now make much

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<v Speaker 5>more sense. Why did Kevin Henry confess to a crime

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<v Speaker 5>he clearly did not commit? And now you.

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<v Speaker 7>Know so I guess.

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<v Speaker 8>Particularly I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>This alliation that police to Kevin Henry's had and forced

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<v Speaker 1>him to confess will be quite shocking, but not so

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<v Speaker 1>for aberg of people who have dealt with in the

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<v Speaker 1>past and even currently talk a little bit about the

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<v Speaker 1>context around this time and how police actually acted towards

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<v Speaker 1>Aboriginal people.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I have to say, knowing when this took place,

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<v Speaker 5>of course, when I first heard this allegation, I knew

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<v Speaker 5>it was big for the crime and for trying to

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<v Speaker 5>assist Kevin, but I can't say I was at all shocked.

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<v Speaker 5>And as we've spoken to community members, Aboriginal people right

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<v Speaker 5>around Queensland and right around Australia. Both in our careers

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<v Speaker 5>and through investigating this case, we've heard of many Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 5>people who have experienced exactly the same thing. Now, it's

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<v Speaker 5>important to remember that the crime that took Linda's life

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<v Speaker 5>took place in nineteen ninety one. This was the year

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<v Speaker 5>when the Fitzgerald Inquiry into police corruption was wrapping up

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<v Speaker 5>in Queensland. And you have to remember that the highest

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<v Speaker 5>ranking officers in Queensland going to prison, not just for corruption,

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<v Speaker 5>but things like police brutality were rampant right across the state. Now,

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<v Speaker 5>of course, being the nineties, it might seem like it

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<v Speaker 5>was a modern time for most people, but police brutality

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<v Speaker 5>against Aboriginal people continues to this day. Since Kevin's been

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<v Speaker 5>in prison, nearly four hundred Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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<v Speaker 5>people have died in custody. So is it really any

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<v Speaker 5>shock that the police would pull a gun on someone?

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<v Speaker 5>And as I say, this has been going on for

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<v Speaker 5>a long time and there are many, many, many Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 5>people with a story to tell just like this. So

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<v Speaker 5>I think the thing we should say too is that

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<v Speaker 5>as we've discussed these allegations with Aboriginal people. Many had

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<v Speaker 5>their own stories to of precisely the same thing happening

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<v Speaker 5>to them. We heard directly from one man who had

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<v Speaker 5>the same thing happened to him at the same police

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<v Speaker 5>station in Rockhampton, and he confessed and served six years

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<v Speaker 5>for a crime he did not do. And he openly says,

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<v Speaker 5>how could he say no? It was simply too dangerous.

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<v Speaker 5>And anyone who questions whether it is too dangerous for

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<v Speaker 5>an Aboriginal person to fight back has to remember that

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<v Speaker 5>number four hundred people dead in custody in the last

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<v Speaker 5>twenty five years, so that is part of the context.

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<v Speaker 5>We know so many Aboriginal people have died and been

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<v Speaker 5>brutalized at the hands of police and members of the

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<v Speaker 5>corrective services. We know in this case with Kevin Henry,

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<v Speaker 5>not only was Kevin threatened, but many of the other

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<v Speaker 5>people involved spoke about on the witness stand the threats

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<v Speaker 5>that they face, the intimidation by the police, the constant harassment.

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<v Speaker 5>So this certainly didn't come out of left field. And

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<v Speaker 5>while I think it's normal for people to believe this

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<v Speaker 5>happens in America on a daily basis, it's time for

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<v Speaker 5>Australia to wake up and realize this doesn't just happen

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<v Speaker 5>in your own country. This happens in your own towns

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<v Speaker 5>and cities and to people you may well know. And

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<v Speaker 5>this is what's happened to Kevin Henry.

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<v Speaker 3>So, taking those statistics in minds that Martin just said,

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<v Speaker 3>you think that there'd be a lot more complaints made

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<v Speaker 3>about police by Aboriginal people.

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<v Speaker 1>And we did have aboriginal death cut in one the

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<v Speaker 1>same year that Lenda was found. But we have a

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<v Speaker 1>situation in a show where there's never been a conviction

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<v Speaker 1>for an Aboriginal death in custry. So when Aboriginal people

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<v Speaker 1>want to allege cases of police brutality, they're really facing

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<v Speaker 1>an uphill battle. And that's what faced Kevin Henry when

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<v Speaker 1>he was incarcerated. Not only had he been wrongfully convicted

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<v Speaker 1>in a court by a jury, but he also had

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of trouble making his voice heard, particularly these

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<v Speaker 1>allegations that particularly the allegations where police had acted quite

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<v Speaker 1>brutally towards him. So, Martin, when did Kevin begin to

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<v Speaker 1>make these complaints and who did he complain to, what

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<v Speaker 1>process did he go through?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, Kevin made the allegations very early on, and while

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<v Speaker 5>we haven't been able to confirm it, my belief is

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<v Speaker 5>that Kevin Henry was telling people, and we know this

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<v Speaker 5>from Kevin too, was telling people exactly what had happened

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<v Speaker 5>straight away. But the process of making a complaint about

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<v Speaker 5>such things is very different. And I'll just pose this

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<v Speaker 5>to our listeners. If, for example, the police had threatened you,

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<v Speaker 5>who would you complain to? We generally think that when

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<v Speaker 5>a crime has been committed against us, the people we

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<v Speaker 5>are going to complain to are the police. So when

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<v Speaker 5>it is the police who have done it, when you've

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<v Speaker 5>wrongfully been found guilty of a horrific crime that you

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<v Speaker 5>know you didn't commit, when you're sitting inside a small

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<v Speaker 5>cell having been found guilty of a murder that again

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<v Speaker 5>you didn't commit. Being an aboriginal man from a small

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<v Speaker 5>regional Queensland town, who do you complain to? Where do

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<v Speaker 5>you go? And remember again that Kevin Henry. Part of

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<v Speaker 5>the problem with this alleged confession all along was that

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<v Speaker 5>it was a long written statement and yet Kevin is illiterate,

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<v Speaker 5>so how was he going to complain? One thing I

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<v Speaker 5>found very remarkable is that in my experience, both in Australia,

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<v Speaker 5>in the United States and around the world, when people

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<v Speaker 5>make complaints against the police, it often takes years and

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<v Speaker 5>years for them to come out. Some people don't make

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<v Speaker 5>those complaints until they're actually freed because they're too scared.

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<v Speaker 5>But Kevin was so sure of what had happened, so

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<v Speaker 5>honest about his innocence, and so keen to protest what

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<v Speaker 5>had gone on that less than a year after being imprisoned,

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<v Speaker 5>he filed a complaint with what was then called the CJC,

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<v Speaker 5>the Criminal Justice Commission, and wrote first a six page

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<v Speaker 5>letter that was distributed through the Criminal Justice Commission and

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<v Speaker 5>then two months later a single page letter detailing the

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<v Speaker 5>acts he alleged had taken place.

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<v Speaker 6>Does the complaints process actually work?

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<v Speaker 5>So Kevin lodged a number of written complaints and this

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<v Speaker 5>was sent to various administrative bodies, one being the Criminal

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<v Speaker 5>Justice Commission, one being the Crime and Misconduct Commission. And

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<v Speaker 5>what will shock people is that the way these complaints

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<v Speaker 5>are handled against police is that the Crime and Misconduct

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<v Speaker 5>Commission forwards these on to the police for the police

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<v Speaker 5>to investigate. Now, a complaint was also written for Kevin

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<v Speaker 5>and on behalf of Kevin by then Queensland State Government MP,

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<v Speaker 5>and this complaint too was referred through the CMC, the

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<v Speaker 5>Crime and Misconduct Commission, to the Ethical Standards Command, who

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<v Speaker 5>then refer it to the Queensland Police. And worst of

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<v Speaker 5>remembering that what Kevin says happened to him, his trial

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<v Speaker 5>where the murder of Linda took place was in Rockhampton.

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<v Speaker 5>This referral of the complaint by Kevin Henry about the

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<v Speaker 5>treatment he suffered at the hands of police was handed

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<v Speaker 5>to the Rockhampton CIB branch to be investigated. And so

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<v Speaker 5>it won't come as any surprise that the Rockampton Police

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<v Speaker 5>who were being investigated were being investigated by their own

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<v Speaker 5>colleagues at the Rockhampton CIB cleared themselves of any wrongdoing.

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<v Speaker 5>Now what that leaves us with is the complaint Kevin

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<v Speaker 5>has made repeatedly over the years has never been properly investigated.

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<v Speaker 5>No one outside of the Rockhampton CIB has ever examined

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<v Speaker 5>what took place police investigating police, and we were not

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<v Speaker 5>the first people to have problems with what happened. Remember

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<v Speaker 5>what the judge said at the start of Kevin's trial

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<v Speaker 5>before any witnesses were called, before the prosecutor or the

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<v Speaker 5>defense started making their cases. The very first thing the

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<v Speaker 5>judge raised was this supposed confession, this statement Kevin made

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<v Speaker 5>and remembering now you know this is when Kevin says,

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<v Speaker 5>during this process, a gun was pulled on him. And

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<v Speaker 5>this is what the judge says. Clearly, the record of

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<v Speaker 5>interview from the middle of page nineteen onwards at the

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<v Speaker 5>CI branch is tainted and cannot be received as a

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<v Speaker 5>voluntary statement. That is one sentence, that's the same CI

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<v Speaker 5>branch that investigated the police who did this to Kevin.

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<v Speaker 5>The judge says that it is tainted and cannot be

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<v Speaker 5>received voluntarily. The judge did not know at that time,

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<v Speaker 5>and we don't believe was ever informed of Kevin's allegation

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<v Speaker 5>of a gun being pulled on him. But here you

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<v Speaker 5>have a judge clearly knowing by just reading the statement

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<v Speaker 5>that something was wrong. And the judge continues to go

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<v Speaker 5>on and explain that Kevin had repeatedly said he had

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<v Speaker 5>nothing further to say, and that these police officers continued

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<v Speaker 5>to press Kevin, and he details how they did that

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<v Speaker 5>on page twenty one and page twenty three and earlier

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<v Speaker 5>on page nineteen and for hours after on video and

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<v Speaker 5>on tape they pressed him and the judge makes mention

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<v Speaker 5>that this happened at the Rockhampton c I branch. And

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<v Speaker 5>years later, when Kevin's allegation was finally investigated, it was

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 5>this same CI branch at Rockhampton who investigated the allegations.

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 5>Is it any wonder the police cleared themselves of wrongdoing?

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 2>So Mardin.

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 6>After this occurred back in two thousand and two, when

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 6>the police basically cleared themselves, what could the CCC, which

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.040
<v Speaker 6>is then the CMC, the Chrome Misconduct Commission, what could

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 6>they have actually done? Considering that they've just passed us

0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 6>off to the police to investigate.

0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think given that they have their own ethical

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 5>standard command, they could have done an internal investigation as

0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 5>to firstly, how did the police carry out an investigation

0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 5>of their own? Did they do it properly and buy

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 5>the book? Was it thorough, was everyone interviewed? Was evidence collected?

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 5>And what did the report actually say? Because all the

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.399
<v Speaker 5>paperwork that we've obtained and we have all that is

0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:11.720
<v Speaker 5>believed to be available, simply states that the officers in

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 5>question are cleared and that the complaint was not substantiated.

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 5>But there's no detail of what was actually done to

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 5>ascertain that. The only thing we know is a single

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:32.199
<v Speaker 5>claim by the investigating officer looking into Kevin's allegation that

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:39.439
<v Speaker 5>they reviewed some CCTV footage. Now that CCTV footage is

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 5>no longer available and it wasn't looked at by this

0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:51.199
<v Speaker 5>investigating officer for years after Kevin made the complaint. You

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 5>have to remember that this is pre the digital age.

0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 5>These things were not stored on large files on computers,

0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 5>as the police them said say. These were recorded on

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 5>Achi video tapes, which, to explain to our listeners, are

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 5>either three hours in standard play or six hours in

0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.400
<v Speaker 5>long play. For the police to still have a copy

0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 5>of the video from when Kevin Henry alleges would mean

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:28.399
<v Speaker 5>just in the time between when the incident took place

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 5>and when the investigation into whether it took place happened.

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 5>The police at just the Rockampton Police station would have

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:41.520
<v Speaker 5>had to have maintained up to ten thousand video tapes.

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 5>So I would suggest that it stretches all kinds of

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 5>credibility to believe that that occurred. And so while we

0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.000
<v Speaker 5>don't know, I find it very hard to believe any

0:18:55.080 --> 0:19:01.800
<v Speaker 5>video tape was ever examined. So clearly the should have

0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:06.439
<v Speaker 5>looked at this matter themselves. What could be more serious

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:11.159
<v Speaker 5>than police misusing a firearm and using it to threaten

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 5>an individual to confess to a murder they say they

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 5>did not commit a murder, where all the other evidence

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.640
<v Speaker 5>suggests this person is innocent. There is no forensic evidence

0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 5>against this person, no DNA evidence against this person. There's

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 5>eyewitnesses who point the finger not at this person, Kevin Henry,

0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.440
<v Speaker 5>but at other people. The sole piece of evidence is

0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:40.439
<v Speaker 5>a confession, and here you have an allegation that it

0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:45.399
<v Speaker 5>was obtained under severe duress, and no one sought to

0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.240
<v Speaker 5>look at the fact that the police were investigating the

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 5>police and to this day, as you've mentioned, we don't

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:57.840
<v Speaker 5>see any follow up to that matter. So I would

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.800
<v Speaker 5>suggest this is when the politicians have a job to do,

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 5>that they demand that this is looked into. Further, that

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.959
<v Speaker 5>if we are to be sure that everybody in prison

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.359
<v Speaker 5>in the state of Queensland and for that matter, Australia,

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.119
<v Speaker 5>is there because they are guilty, that we need to

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 5>know how much of this behavior has been going on

0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 5>and if it's been stamped out. And I also want

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 5>to mention one other thing. Remember on an earlier episode

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 5>of this podcast, when we interviewed Patrick McGinnis, the public

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.879
<v Speaker 5>defender from Florida who was able to prove that a

0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 5>young African American man did not commit a murder the

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 5>police alleged he did. He too, supposedly confessed, he too

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 5>made complaints about police roughing him up and punching him.

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 5>But the police investigated themselves in that matter and they

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 5>too cleared themselves. But what we know about that case

0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 5>is that Patrick McGinnis, this public defender who was documented

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 5>in the Academy Award winning movie A Murder on a

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.439
<v Speaker 5>Sunday morning, he decided to investigate it himself, and not

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 5>only did he prove that the police had roughed up

0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 5>this young black man who did not commit the murder,

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:29.600
<v Speaker 5>he found the real murderer. This is the job that

0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 5>organizations like the Crime and Misconduct Commission and the Ethical

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:39.200
<v Speaker 5>Standards Command inside both the Queensland Government and Queensland Police

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:45.640
<v Speaker 5>should be doing, because if Kevin Henry is innocent, then

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.360
<v Speaker 5>we know not only has he been denied justice, but

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 5>Linda has been denied justice too, because the people really

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:59.320
<v Speaker 5>responsible have never faced accountability for what they did and

0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.919
<v Speaker 5>the sole read and that is true is because Kevin

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.480
<v Speaker 5>was forced to confess to a crime he did not

0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:11.000
<v Speaker 5>commit by police who were acting unethically, immorally, and I

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 5>would suggest criminally.

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:23.399
<v Speaker 2>Now includes a copy of Kevin Leonard alting that the

0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 2>gun who had on the day he alone can.

0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Pay for website.

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 7>Dot com that was

0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 6>Of a Curdi