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Speaker 1: But you will recall last month the Federal Coalition said

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Speaker 1: that they would strip funding from the Environmental Defender's Office

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Speaker 1: if they win the next federal election. Now, the EDO

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Speaker 1: has recently worn criticism for its conduct in court, and

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Speaker 1: the Federal Justice Natalie Charlesworth ruled that the group had

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Speaker 1: confected evidence and coached witnesses in its legal challenge of

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Speaker 1: a Santos gas project in the Team or c Now.

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Speaker 1: In the wake of that case, mister Dutton vowed to

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Speaker 1: defund the EDO. Chief Minister Evil Auler said that she

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Speaker 1: would review the one hundred thousand dollars annual funding it

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Speaker 1: provides to the EDO. But things took a further step

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Speaker 1: this week with those calls for the departmental review into

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Speaker 1: the Environmental Defender's Office to be expanded into a comprehensive

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Speaker 1: investigation and for the next multimillion dollar payment to be cut.

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Speaker 1: Those calls have been turbo charged by the Coalition senators

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Speaker 1: after more revelations over the mishandling of the eight point

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Speaker 1: three million dollar grant were exposed at Senate Estimates. Now

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Speaker 1: joining me on the line to talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about this situation is the Federal Shadow Environment Minister

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Speaker 1: John O. Dunham, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie. It's good to be with you. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great to have you on the show. Now, what

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Speaker 1: happened in the Senate this.

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Speaker 2: Week, Well, what we found was that despite the what

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Speaker 2: I think is one of the most scathing judgments a

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Speaker 2: federal court judge has provided in many a year. I

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Speaker 2: mean she didn't mince words, she was very direct saying

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Speaker 2: this organization coached witnesses, confected evidence, manipulated evidence, They misled

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Speaker 2: the court in terms of what they were proposing to

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Speaker 2: get a particular outcome. That is not what an organization

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Speaker 2: like this should do. And we, as you've already said,

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Speaker 2: have said that if we were elected after the next

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Speaker 2: federal elections, stripped the money out this government, the later

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Speaker 2: government is dragging its heels and not responding of what

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Speaker 2: is a very urgent matter. Tax players money, eight point

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Speaker 2: three million dollars of it being plowed into this organization

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Speaker 2: to frankly be an activist organization. This is not about

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Speaker 2: helping out the little guy and making sure the playing

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Speaker 2: good is level. This is about hulking development like the

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Speaker 2: Santos Fund that we know about off the coast of

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Speaker 2: Dalmen there, like the salmon industry in Tasmanei, you're in

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Speaker 2: countless others across the country. They are full time engaged

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Speaker 2: in green law fare. And to have a review, which

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Speaker 2: is all they're doing, which ignores most of the facts,

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Speaker 2: is simply not enough. And the fact is this review

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Speaker 2: may not be done by the time they due their

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Speaker 2: next in excessive two million dollar payment in April. That

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Speaker 2: needs to be stopped for a start, But at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, if the government continues to fund this,

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Speaker 2: it means they have not learned anything out of this.

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Speaker 1: Sorry episode, don what do you reckon needs to happen here?

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Speaker 2: Well, frankly, I mean they need to get back to basics. One,

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Speaker 2: the government, the labor government, if it is truly interested

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Speaker 2: in growing them and making sure people's jobs are secure

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Speaker 2: and we're truly interested in bringing down the cost of living,

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Speaker 2: won't give taxpayers money to an organization which is all

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Speaker 2: about stopping new energy projects like the Barossa projects that

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Speaker 2: Santos there jeopardizes one hundreds, if not thousands of jobs

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Speaker 2: through halting these projects or delaying expansion. All of this

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Speaker 2: is anti jobs, anti economic growth. So the government needs

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Speaker 2: to stop funding it. The EEDIO raises millions and millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars from donations from across the globe, not just

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Speaker 2: here in Australia. We don't even know who these donors are.

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Speaker 2: They could be foreign governments for all we know, interfering

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Speaker 2: in our domestic affairs.

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Speaker 1: So do you regular I think, do you think that really,

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Speaker 1: if the EDO is you know, is serious about continuing

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Speaker 1: to do their work, that they should just fund themselves.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely they should, and they are getting, as I said,

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars every year from donations to engage in

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Speaker 2: this green law there. So they shouldn't be reliant on

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Speaker 2: taxpayers money which could be better spent in the health system,

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Speaker 2: of education system or helping first nations Australians frankly, rather

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Speaker 2: than holding up projects like the ones we've talked about

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Speaker 2: in the courts for years and years. So no, they

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Speaker 2: should not be reliant on the taxpayer at state or

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Speaker 2: federal money. Taxpayers have better things to be doing with

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Speaker 2: their money than propping up an organization like this.

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Speaker 1: I guess, to play Devil's advocate for a moment, there

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Speaker 1: might be some people listening saying that you know that

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Speaker 1: the views of environmentalists. And also you know, for some

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Speaker 1: traditional owners, I guess in this instance or what we saw,

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Speaker 1: you know with the Brassa project, that they should still

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Speaker 1: that they should still be heard. What do you say

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Speaker 1: to those people that are maybe listening to us this

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Speaker 1: morning saying, hang on a sect, the EDO should still

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Speaker 1: be funded.

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Speaker 2: Sure the views of the little guy if you want.

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Speaker 2: No matter what background they come from, be they an environmentalist, farmer,

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Speaker 2: a regular member of the community, a traditional owner should

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Speaker 2: be heard and the EDIO could play a valuable role

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Speaker 2: in not being an activist and going out passing around

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Speaker 2: looking for potential individuals who want to partake in green lawfare.

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Speaker 2: I have had traditional owners sitting in my office here

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Speaker 2: in Candra telling me that the EDIO has tried to

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Speaker 2: split them off from the rest of their community to

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Speaker 2: mount a case that is in the edo's interests, not

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Speaker 2: the traditional owner's interests. Seriously, not self yes, seriously, They've

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Speaker 2: flown down here from the TV Islands and communities in

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Speaker 2: the North of Australia to tell me that, and that

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Speaker 2: is the kind of activity we need to stop. There

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Speaker 2: is always a role for community legal services, women's legal services,

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Speaker 2: tenants unions and the likes, but when they become activist

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Speaker 2: organizations like this, they don't deserve taxpayers money, and I

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Speaker 2: would argue it does draw into question their deductible gift

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Speaker 2: recipient status, that is the charity status they get, which

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Speaker 2: means when people don'tate money, they get a tax ride off.

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Speaker 2: I argue that this money is not being used to

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Speaker 2: advance our country and make things better, but make things

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Speaker 2: worse by gethardizing these projects and the jobs that go

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Speaker 2: with them.

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Speaker 1: Now, where to from here? What needs to happen next?

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Speaker 1: As I know you've obviously been asking these further questions,

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Speaker 1: but what needs to happen next?

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Speaker 2: Well, along we've just enter price from your great territory.

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Speaker 2: We've been pursuing this and we will continue to ask

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Speaker 2: those questions. We're going to keep digging and digging for

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Speaker 2: the detail around exactly what they're doing, where this money

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Speaker 2: is coming from. We expect the government will take this

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Speaker 2: issue seriously. If they're not going to withdraw the funding

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Speaker 2: to this organization, then at least go and do the

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Speaker 2: right thing by taxpayers of Australia and understand how they're

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Speaker 2: getting their money and what they're actually doing. I am

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Speaker 2: every day getting new evidence around activity of this organization,

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Speaker 2: where they are misleading people, they are engaging with, they

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Speaker 2: are fabricating evidence, and we need to interrogate that. We

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that they're helped to account. This

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Speaker 2: is taxpayers money they're using here, and we are going

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Speaker 2: to make sure that they are held to account for

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Speaker 2: what they do and this government that insists on funding

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Speaker 2: them is held to account for making this decision and

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Speaker 2: all of the bad flow on impacts that are coming

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Speaker 2: about as a result of that decision.

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Speaker 1: Well, Federal Shadow Environment Minister John o'dunheam, I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Thank you so much for having

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Speaker 1: a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: No worries, Katie, all the best to be everyone in

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Speaker 2: the top end. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon.