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Speaker 1: We know that. News emerged on Friday that the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory opposition leader had miss used the White chauffeur car

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Speaker 1: service for personal use, attending multiple social events and medical appointments.

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Speaker 1: Selena Ubo forced to out herself after the ABC FOI

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Speaker 1: documents and uncovered that she'd used the white car service

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Speaker 1: for personal use attending multiple social events and medical appointments.

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Speaker 1: Now FOI documents detailed well every VIP trip between February

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Speaker 1: and March this year. The travelogue show that Misubo used

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Speaker 1: the VIP service sixty five times. Seven of those times

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Speaker 1: she missus the service. Now, Selena Ubo, the opposition leader,

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Speaker 1: joins me in the studio. Good morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time now, Selena. According to

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Speaker 1: the ABC, these trips include personal trips to restaurants and

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Speaker 1: a medical center. Some destinations are redacted. Can you outline

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Speaker 1: what you use the chauffeur service for in terms of

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Speaker 1: miss use?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I had the opportunity on Friday, after returning from leave

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Speaker 3: to review some of the travel that was requested through

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Speaker 3: the FI process from the ABC. I had a look

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Speaker 3: at further than that, I had to look at the

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Speaker 3: twelve months I've been the leader of the Opposition, and

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Speaker 3: there were seven trips that were predominantly personal use, so

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Speaker 3: the leaving work and going to eat on the way

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Speaker 3: back from Parliament, a medical appointment, as you've mentioned. So

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be very upfront with Territorians that I

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Speaker 3: understand this is unacceptable. I do want to hold myself

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Speaker 3: to account. I want to show that I've had the

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Speaker 3: responsibility and I do apologize for blurring the lines between

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Speaker 3: the professional use of the car which you mentioned. You know,

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Speaker 3: sixty five times in two months, five times that were

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Speaker 3: personally in that period of time. So seven was over

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Speaker 3: the twelve month period, so there was one in December

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Speaker 3: and one in January as well, Katie.

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Speaker 2: So I did review those twelve.

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Speaker 1: Months, so doctor's appointments were flagged as the reason for

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Speaker 1: using that service for your personal issue. Then just touched

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Speaker 1: on as well going to restaurants after work, So you

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Speaker 1: were in a situation where what you were leaving Parliament house,

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Speaker 1: going home or going you know presumably usually get dropped home,

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Speaker 1: but instead of being dropped home, being dropped to a restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So for example, on the twenty fifth.

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Speaker 3: Of March, this year. That happened to be my fortieth birthday, Katie.

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Speaker 3: We finished parliament at nine pm. I went to a

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Speaker 3: restaurant here in Darwin. I would normally get dropped straight

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Speaker 3: back to my accommodation, which is twenty minutes out of town.

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Speaker 3: I had a meal there and then continued on half

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Speaker 3: an hour later.

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Speaker 1: So did you make the driver wait outside while you ate?

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Speaker 3: Drivers go back to the base, which is the parliament

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Speaker 3: So if there's any other jobs, they take those jobs.

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Speaker 3: And I was able to call the driver if they're available.

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Speaker 3: They said, yeah, we'll come and pick you up and

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Speaker 3: then they drop me back to my accommodation.

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Speaker 1: Insiders have told me that you did use the service

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Speaker 1: on at least one occasion to go to dinner at

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Speaker 1: a re staunt in the city and have the driver

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Speaker 1: wait outside. Know is that the case?

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Speaker 3: No, No, what's been reported in the anti independence incorrect

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Speaker 3: for that.

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Speaker 1: I've actually I've had somebody else say it to us,

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Speaker 1: So not the case.

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Speaker 2: Drivers have not waited out the front.

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Speaker 3: They if it's here in the city the time that

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Speaker 3: I've mentioned, they'll always go back to the parliamentary base.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's appropriate to use that service for

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Speaker 1: them to take you to private medical appointments or to

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Speaker 1: take you to a restaurant for dinner.

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Speaker 3: No, that's why I've looked at what my movements have

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Speaker 3: been and there's not always points of reflection unfortunately, Katie.

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Speaker 2: And politics, this is definitely you have one of those points.

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Speaker 1: Have been in politics for a long time though, Selena,

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Speaker 1: this is not a new game for you. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm getting to is can people be

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Speaker 1: confident that you haven't misused that service while you're a minister.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So the example about the medical appointment, Katie on the

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Speaker 3: seventeenth of March, It's Monday before the Parliament sittings. Fortnite,

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Speaker 3: usually a very heavy day. It was a ten hour day.

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Speaker 3: There were no gaps in my diary whatsoever. But I

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Speaker 3: did have a twenty minute special appointment which required travel

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately I did use the white car for that,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the trips I have paid back.

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Speaker 1: So again though I will ask.

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Speaker 3: You and I as well, Katie, that was from parliament

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Speaker 3: returning to Parliament, so in between the workday.

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Speaker 2: I just want to be clear about that, all right.

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Speaker 1: So you've looked at in the last twelve months since

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Speaker 1: you've been opposition later, have you gone back through when

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Speaker 1: you're a minister and seen whether you've misused the service

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Speaker 1: in any time as a minister.

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Speaker 3: I haven't gone back and looked at my ministerial movements Katie.

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Speaker 3: That was obviously, you know, six year period I was

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Speaker 3: a minister. But I can say that I would have

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Speaker 3: been some medical appointments. I did have four pregnancies when

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Speaker 3: I was a minister, and I would have been attending

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Speaker 3: some appointments during work hours as well.

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Speaker 1: So medical appointments. Look, I don't know that anybody would

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Speaker 1: begrudge you attending.

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Speaker 2: I do want to just be very open and honest

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Speaker 2: about So in.

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Speaker 1: That case when you were a minister, were there any

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Speaker 1: situations where you were then requiring that that driver to

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Speaker 1: drop you out to dinner or to drop you to

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Speaker 1: birthday celebrations or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: No, the birthday celebrations was was only that week of

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Speaker 3: my fortieth birthday, which was in March this year, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So you're confident that you never miss use the service

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Speaker 1: as a minister.

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Speaker 3: I think the benacal appointments were the main personal use,

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Speaker 3: and that, unfortunately, I think also was when I was

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Speaker 3: a minister.

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you, you don't sound real confident

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 3: Or I don't have anything in front of me. So again,

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Speaker 3: I want to be verytable. Well, I want to be

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Speaker 3: very upfront and accountable. If I'm talking about the six

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Speaker 3: years I was a minister, I want to be able

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Speaker 3: to provide that information to people.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm getting to, and it's the same

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Speaker 1: questions that I was getting to with Joe Hersey yesterday

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Speaker 1: is can people trust that you haven't been miss using

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Speaker 1: this service for years?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's why I'm being upfront about the review that

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Speaker 3: I've done.

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Speaker 1: Since cfl I requires came out.

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Speaker 3: You are, but there's also the opportunity to I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think you know Joe Hersey spoke about it. If

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Speaker 3: we're speaking about the efficiency of being in a role

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Speaker 3: like this, in a role as a minister, obviously the

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Speaker 3: speaker is also covered through this process, what's the efficient

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Speaker 3: use of time and unfortunately leaving work and then going

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Speaker 3: to something personal. Unfortunately, that's what I've done. I've have

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Speaker 3: blurred those lines. You know, I've heard that there may

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Speaker 3: be people who have dropped off their children in a

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Speaker 3: white car and then gone to work. Is that acceptable

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Speaker 3: by the public. I don't know, So that's the questions. Well,

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Speaker 3: but there is gen.

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Speaker 1: For you currently. Did you misuse the service when you're

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Speaker 1: a minister, Because you know, what I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: at is can people trust you? You're the leader of

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Speaker 1: the opposition. Can they trust you?

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Speaker 2: Katie?

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Speaker 3: I want to restore the trust for territories in the

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Speaker 3: work that I do. We met as a caucus to

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Speaker 3: discuss that the action that I've taken in front footing

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Speaker 3: what is unaccept in Territorian's eyes. I've had, you know,

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Speaker 3: that time, the very short time, an opportunity to be

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Speaker 3: able to look at that twelve months to be upfront

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Speaker 3: with Territorians about my movements. And I have repaid back

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Speaker 3: that six hundred and fifty five dollars, so it's paid

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Speaker 3: back now. It was paid back on Friday. I had

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Speaker 3: the invoice received and I paid it back within an hour.

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Speaker 3: And to show Territorians that I don't want any cloud

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Speaker 3: of doubt or judgments on my leadership and my job

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Speaker 3: is to hold the government to account.

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Speaker 2: That I can hold myself to account. So do you

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Speaker 2: think there.

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Speaker 1: Needs to be now review of the way in which

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Speaker 1: this service issues not just I mean, I know you

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Speaker 1: said you're not going to use it anymore, but in

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Speaker 1: terms of the opposition leader, the Speaker, the government, the

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Speaker 1: way in which it is able to be used in

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Speaker 1: some really clear guidelines about what's acceptable and what's not.

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Speaker 1: Because I know that under the former government there was

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Speaker 1: a cabinet handbook was my understanding, where it was pretty

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Speaker 1: clear what you were and weren't supposed to do, which

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Speaker 1: is why I guess I'm so surprised that you've misused.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that the government is currently under way

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Speaker 3: with a review and a policy around the use of that.

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Speaker 3: I believe there was a draft in July around clarity

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Speaker 3: around the use. So I'll wait for that and whatever

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Speaker 3: the policy that the government chooses to endorse, that'll obviously

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Speaker 3: be what gets put in place. But my caucus team

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Speaker 3: and I have said, because we don't want to have

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Speaker 3: any doubt on my work as the leader of the

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Speaker 3: opposition and holding the government to account, that I won't

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Speaker 3: use the white car for the next three years.

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Speaker 1: Do you really need to go that far? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that makes it sound like you don't trust yourself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a matter of trust again, it's about

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Speaker 3: perception if people see me in a white car and

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Speaker 3: think where is she gone to? Where is she going to?

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Speaker 3: Where she come from? I don't want that to be

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Speaker 3: in people's minds, Katie. I want them to know that

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Speaker 3: I am there for the job, that I'm being privileged

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Speaker 3: and honored to be able to represent territories in as

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Speaker 3: the leader of the opposition, and that's my focus.

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Speaker 1: Do you still have the confidence of your caucus colleagues

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Speaker 1: but also of members of the Labor Party.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I still have the confidence of my caucus team,

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Speaker 3: which is why we met last week. I was still

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Speaker 3: on leave at the time and spoke openly with my team.

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Speaker 3: They do support me, they want me to continue to

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Speaker 3: be the leader, but we wanted to show there's a

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Speaker 3: point of difference with our territory Labor team. I am

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Speaker 3: a new leader of the party. Want to show that

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Speaker 3: there is a consequence for my action, whether it's too

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Speaker 3: harsh or not. I mean that I'll leave that for

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Speaker 3: people to judge.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Make I mean, some people think you should step down

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Speaker 1: as the opposition leader. What do you say to that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have read comments people saying that, but again,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you make a mistake and you own

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Speaker 3: up to it. You make reprimands to excuse me, reparations

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Speaker 3: to repay that mistake. I feel like I've done that.

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Speaker 3: I want the people to know that I've done that

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Speaker 3: because I am apologetic for what I've done and I

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Speaker 3: don't expect that standard in myself, and I'm very disappointed

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Speaker 3: at my actions.

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Speaker 1: Are you confident that you can regain the trust of territories?

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Speaker 3: I am confident. I want to show that I working

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Speaker 3: hard every day for territorians. I represent a really amazing

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Speaker 3: election with the Animal electure, and I want to continue

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Speaker 3: to show my constituents I can represent them and the

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Speaker 3: honor and privilege I have as the leader of opposition

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Speaker 3: here in the NT and represent the labor values that

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Speaker 3: we have.

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Speaker 1: Well. One of the points that was made yesterday because

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Speaker 1: obviously we spoke to Joe Hersey about this yesterday as well,

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Speaker 1: and she'd revealed that she'd misuse that car service on

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Speaker 1: at least one occasion. Now the ABC's also IFO Wied

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Speaker 1: are also taking a look at some of her trips

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Speaker 1: as well. Some of them may be questionable, same as yours.

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Speaker 1: You know where we're now kind of everybody's going, all right, well,

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Speaker 1: what needs to be the guidelines here to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they're not being misused? Just putting that aside for

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Speaker 1: a moment. She'd also said that you know, you can

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Speaker 1: indeed get a higher car, and she argued that that's

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Speaker 1: more expensive than using the white cars to the taxpayer.

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Speaker 1: But I also did a bit of investigating myself. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you guys get four hundred dollars a day in travel

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Speaker 1: allowance when you're.

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Speaker 2: Here, don't you, Yes, we do.

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Speaker 1: That's a heck of a lot of money on top

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Speaker 1: of everyday salary. And I get it right. I worked

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Speaker 1: for a bush minister many years ago. I understand that

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Speaker 1: it is a really tough juggle when you're coming in

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Speaker 1: from the bush. But do you acknowledge that you know,

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Speaker 1: you guys have taken the piece a little bit here.

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Speaker 2: It's not taking the piece, Katie.

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Speaker 3: It is showing that there are different demands on this

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Speaker 3: role as a member of Parliament, let alone the extra

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Speaker 3: responsibility if you're a Minister of the Speaker, leader of

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Speaker 3: the Opposition, and that the time demands do require sometimes

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Speaker 3: that focus on efficiencies. So you know, the travel does

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Speaker 3: every single minute that you have with people really matters.

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Speaker 2: Really counts if you're late for something.

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Speaker 3: Obviously I was a couple of minutes late for this interview,

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Speaker 3: but if you're late for a meeting and an event,

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Speaker 3: that cuts down the time and the ability for people

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Speaker 3: to be able to speak with you directly, provide feedback,

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Speaker 3: provide complaints, whatever it is people want to bring up

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Speaker 3: with the MLAs, and that's really important.

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Speaker 2: That's what our job is, is to be face to

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Speaker 2: face with people.

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Speaker 1: Well, I agree, and this is where I think even

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Speaker 1: banning yourself from using the white cars, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: do need to get to places in a timely fashion.

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Speaker 1: No one would begrudge you using a white car to

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Speaker 1: get here to the radio station, being dropped off and

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Speaker 1: then going back to Parliament House. But this is where

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Speaker 1: I think it needs to be made really clear because

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Speaker 1: the last thing that Territorians want is to feel as

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Speaker 1: though you know they're being taken advantage of. So I

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Speaker 1: think it needs to.

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Speaker 3: Get understand and definitely respect that, which is why I

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Speaker 3: wanted to apologize the Territorians. It's not the standard I

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Speaker 3: hold for myself, Katie. I have made a mistake. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: I'm human, I'm not perfect. I want to show that

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Speaker 3: I have taken the steps to show that I am

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Speaker 3: apologetic for that and that I have made amends of

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Speaker 3: those actions. I can't undo those actions, but I do

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Speaker 3: want to move forward to show territorians I will continue

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Speaker 3: to work hard for them.

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Speaker 1: Oh positionally to really quick one. Some of our listeners

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Speaker 1: have ours to hear your views this morning on the

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Speaker 1: government's announcement yesterday that from today term four, parents who

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Speaker 1: consistently failed to send their children to school are going

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Speaker 1: to be referred for income management, making sure that taxpayer

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Speaker 1: funded support is used in the best interests of children.

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Speaker 1: Do you support this move?

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Speaker 2: I don't, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an unfortunate, recycled old policy from you know,

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Speaker 3: over ten years ago, where there's been punitive measures put

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Speaker 3: in place. Absolutely agree there has to be accountability. There

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Speaker 3: needs to be focus work on making sure all of

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Speaker 3: our kids, no matter where they are, do go to school,

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Speaker 3: do get that opportunity for equality education, and that our

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Speaker 3: staff and our schools are supported to do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean taking that into account. Is it time to

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Speaker 1: maybe look at having a bit more of a bipartisan

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Speaker 1: approach here. I know it may go against what you

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Speaker 1: have previously seen as sort of being the way to go,

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Speaker 1: but is it time for us to try something new?

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Speaker 3: Well, education has always been a core value of our

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Speaker 3: Labor team, and you know, the door's always open and

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Speaker 3: we're very keen to be able to support and be constructive,

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Speaker 3: as I've said from the start of my leadership role.

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Speaker 3: So if that is something that the government would like

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Speaker 3: to do, we're very keen to.

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Speaker 2: Be able to offer that support.

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Speaker 3: Last year, you know, we signed off on a billion

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Speaker 3: deal to make sure that every single Northern Territory public

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Speaker 3: school was fully resourced. So I mean that took seven

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Speaker 3: years for us to secure that deal as the former

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Speaker 3: Labor government. If there's anything to do in terms of

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Speaker 3: constructive way of working across the parliament, across the bipartisan

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Speaker 3: lines when it comes to education with kids, it's too

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Speaker 3: important to be political about. Absolutely have the door open

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Speaker 3: for that. Don't agree with the punitive measures. I think

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Speaker 3: there are better ways to be able to support families

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Speaker 3: and cares to get kids to school, and particularly when

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Speaker 3: we talk about income management, I think that's punishing families

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Speaker 3: who are already struggling.

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Speaker 1: Opposition lyder Selina, you bo, we will leave it there,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. For your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Katie,