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Speaker 1: If you're listening to the show on Friday, you certainly

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Speaker 1: would have heard us discussing throughout the week. That was

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Speaker 1: that the City of Darwin successfully overturned a provisional heritage

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Speaker 1: listing of the Darwin Estpernard, with the Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 1: the Heritage Council had denied the council procedural fairness. Now,

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Speaker 1: the former Heritage Minister Chancey Paike made the provisional declaration

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Speaker 1: last April, which was strongly opposed by the City of Darwin,

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Speaker 1: and they weren't the only ones I know. At the time,

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Speaker 1: the Property Council of the Northern Territory had raised concerns

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Speaker 1: around the future development, and the Lord Mayor, Conbat Scarlets,

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Speaker 1: had warned that the heritage listing could harm local business

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Speaker 1: like Aquasine and indeed disrupt some of the major events

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Speaker 1: we have downe there, like the Glenty. Now, the Property

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Speaker 1: Council's NTI Executive Officer, Ruth Palmer joins me in the studio.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Ruth, Good morning Katie and great to be

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Speaker 2: in the studio.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nice news studio. I'll keep forgetting that some people

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it yet. It's very different to our older

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Speaker 1: studio hones.

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Speaker 2: The natural light. You can look at the train.

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Speaker 1: Of bars exactly now, Ruth, tell me, I know that

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Speaker 1: you guys were quite vocal when this heritage listing first

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Speaker 1: sort of came about. What was your reaction when you

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Speaker 1: learned that the Supreme Court had made the decision to

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Speaker 1: overturn USh.

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Speaker 2: Yes, obviously we acknowledge and support the work that happened

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Speaker 2: with the Heritage listing and through the work that Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court have now done and overturning that. We opposed it

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Speaker 2: straight away and wrote to the Minister and obviously made

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Speaker 2: some comments around how it impacts the Esplanade. There's two

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Speaker 2: big things for us that raised our concerns initially, and

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Speaker 2: that was the lack of consultation and that this blanket

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Speaker 2: approach was then slapped on the Esplanade. And the other

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Speaker 2: big one as well is that it went completely against

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Speaker 2: the government's own Central Darwin Area Plan. So these plans

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Speaker 2: aimed to guide the future use of an area. They

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Speaker 2: were done all across the Northern Territory. You know, the

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Speaker 2: Planning Commission spent a lot of work working with us

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Speaker 2: and all other stakeholders around these plans, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it sort of went completely against everything that's in there,

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Speaker 2: so that really then throws in a lot of uncertainty

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Speaker 2: for people wanting to invest or people who already own

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Speaker 2: properties on the Esplanade, but also around that hard and

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Speaker 2: soft infrastructure as well, you know, really like those tourism

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Speaker 2: amenities which we need to see on the esplanade.

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Speaker 1: Ruth, what do you reckon, Like if this didn't get overturned,

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Speaker 1: how difficult do you think it would have been to

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Speaker 1: then continue to have those events or even you know,

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Speaker 1: have any kind of I don't know if development's the

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Speaker 1: right word, but like anything happening there on the Esplanade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Lard is an area of rich culture, rich heritage,

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Speaker 2: and we know we need to preserve that, but it

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Speaker 2: needs to be done without hindering the growth of the territory.

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Speaker 2: And you know Darwin having that outlook into the harbor

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Speaker 2: and sort of people wanting to be near water. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's an area that had had the work done

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Speaker 2: to say that it was going to be suitable for

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Speaker 2: future use for tourism, for retail, for hospitality, for events,

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Speaker 2: and with a bank blanket approach across the entire Esplanade

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Speaker 2: just means that none of those events can happen, none

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Speaker 2: of that tourism amenity can kick off, and it sort

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Speaker 2: of just sends a message that was sort of closed

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Speaker 2: off and why you know, you can't even come and

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Speaker 2: enjoy things on our beautiful Esplanay.

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Speaker 1: It just seems so odd to me because I know

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Speaker 1: that previously, you know, we'd sort of been having discussions

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Speaker 1: as well about whether the lamarou baths and areas like

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Speaker 1: that could be you know, it could be back in action,

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Speaker 1: or whether they could be redeveloped. And then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, we're going, oh, hang on, this is being

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Speaker 1: heritage listed without any kind of consultation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And that was our biggest issue, was

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Speaker 2: the lack of consultation. And you know, we put submissions in,

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Speaker 2: we wrote to the ministers, and when you don't hear

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Speaker 2: anything back, but then here that there's this application on,

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Speaker 2: then you sort of sort of go, well, how does

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Speaker 2: that decision get made in the first place when it

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Speaker 2: does go completely against the government's own area plans that

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Speaker 2: they had done that actually guide the planning the planning scheme.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we need to make sure that those

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Speaker 2: that those area plans are up to date that they

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Speaker 2: do align with culture, with heritage, but also you know,

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Speaker 2: is there other areas now that now need to have

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Speaker 2: a further look. So we did call last year and

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Speaker 2: we did speak to Leah when she was the leader

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Speaker 2: of the opposition about looking at maybe do we need

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Speaker 2: an overhaul of those area plans, just making sure we're

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Speaker 2: aligning with the goals of what the Northern Territory needs

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Speaker 2: to needs to be delivering really when it comes to

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Speaker 2: those usage uses of land.

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Speaker 1: And so when you look at somewhere like the Esplanade,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what could be happening on there when you

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Speaker 1: take into account those area plans and when you also

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Speaker 1: look at esplanads in other locations and how thriving some

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Speaker 1: of them are comparatively to ours. I mean, it is

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Speaker 1: a beautiful space, there is no doubt about that. But

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Speaker 1: you know, even we'd had somebody contact us long ago

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about what was going to happen

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Speaker 1: like for the commemoration of Cyclone Tracy, and they said, Katie,

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Speaker 1: what about a beautiful walk you know that went the

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Speaker 1: whole way along the Esplanad and then took you down

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Speaker 1: to Doctors Gully and around to Cullum Bay and then

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Speaker 1: kind of connected, you know, to Nightcliffe. I mean that

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Speaker 1: is like, that's something that would be a big ask

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Speaker 1: given the fact that we've got a lot of people

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Speaker 1: not wanting anything to develop. But you go, there's so

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Speaker 1: many different things that could be happening to try and

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Speaker 1: activate the area. And that's right.

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Speaker 2: And in the in the area plan, it's actually got

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Speaker 2: a table in there of what was emaked for that

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Speaker 2: future use. And you've got to look at the connectivity

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Speaker 2: as well. So when we look at the waterfront to

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Speaker 2: the CBD to Columbay, you know, there has to be

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Speaker 2: that connectivity that gets people moving, that gets people through.

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Speaker 2: But also you can create those cultural heritage walkways, you

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Speaker 2: can create a story and you can really have a

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Speaker 2: narrative about what the Esplanade's purpose is, what the history is,

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Speaker 2: while also activating it. So we want to see people

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Speaker 2: on the esplanade, we want to see people on foot

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Speaker 2: or even on the scooters or anything like that pushbikes.

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Speaker 2: So you know, these this was all in the area

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Speaker 2: Plan and it is laid out pretty clearly in the

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Speaker 2: table of what it was going to be defined as

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Speaker 2: for that future use. So when you when you toss

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Speaker 2: that out completely. Then how can people feel comfortable in

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Speaker 2: investing but also really just sort of that certainty around well,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you've got properties on the esplanade, or

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Speaker 2: of people want to do things on the esplanade, it's

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Speaker 2: sort of they get very restricted in that blanket approach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look at such a beautiful area. It's one

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Speaker 1: that we all want to be able to utilize. We're

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Speaker 1: not no one's saying let's develop it, let's build a

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Speaker 1: building on the esplanade or anything like that. That's not

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Speaker 1: what we're saying. But you do think to yourself, is

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Speaker 1: there ways that we can activate it a little bit better?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you look at Cans. It's an example I've

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Speaker 1: given on so many occasions where they've got a kid's playground,

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Speaker 1: and I know we've got the kids playground there on

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Speaker 1: the esplanade, but you know it can't even sort of

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Speaker 1: get a coffee nearby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's right. And you know, I was in

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Speaker 2: Townsville a few weeks ago and I was absolutely blown

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Speaker 2: away by sort of the work they've done on their

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Speaker 2: esplanade as well, like the walkways, they've got restaurant. You know,

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Speaker 2: just that it was it was accessible and it was pumping.

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Speaker 2: So Townsville was just absolutely booming. And I again, you

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Speaker 2: sort of look at these places that are not so

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Speaker 2: dissimilar to Darwin, especially when it comes to our climate,

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Speaker 2: but also the amount of people that are there. So

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Speaker 2: why aren't we looking at how we can attract people

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Speaker 2: to want to come here and making our areas beautiful

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Speaker 2: for everybody to enjoy. This is what draws people to areas,

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Speaker 2: Like people will always go to Cans for their esplanade development,

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Speaker 2: but it still is it's still a natural beauty place.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you still have the natural areas, but

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Speaker 2: you can see the water and you can swim, but

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Speaker 2: not in the ocean, but they've got the pools, so

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Speaker 2: you know, we've got the opportunities. And I think now,

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Speaker 2: you know, we really need to go back and have

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Speaker 2: a look at the plans and sort of make sure

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Speaker 2: we're aligning with all the goals to be able to

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Speaker 2: move the territory forward and not.

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Speaker 1: Necessary bloody point in doing the area plans. What's the

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Speaker 1: point in happening? Then you're not going to move ahead

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 2: And all those plans cost money and they take time,

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Speaker 2: and when you look at them all across the territory.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's what's the point of them to guide

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Speaker 2: that future use if you can just slap a blanket

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Speaker 2: approach on it at the drop of a hat. So

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Speaker 2: that's where our biggest concern was, was that lack of

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Speaker 2: consultation and the fact that it went completely against the

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Speaker 2: government's own area plan.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, it does sound as though some common sense

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Speaker 1: has prevailed. So we wait and see what happens with

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Speaker 1: those area plans and if the current government's sort of

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Speaker 1: got any further plans to do different things or further

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Speaker 1: consult or what exactly they want to see for the

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Speaker 1: Esplanade in the future. So we'll keep on to that. Ruth,

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Speaker 1: it is always great to catch up with you. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so very much for joining us in the studio

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Katie,