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Speaker 1: Good morning, Happy Wednesday, and welcome to the Daily Oz.

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara. I'm joined by Sam, who wanted to tell

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Speaker 1: you all that it is teacher's day in Turkey today.

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Speaker 1: I reminded him. He told us it was teacher's day

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Speaker 1: Costa Rica the other day. But here we are. Sam

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Speaker 1: take us through the news of the day.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, Zara, I also had a funny feeling that today

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Speaker 2: was the earliest day harvest day can fall in Turkmenistine

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Speaker 2: and I was right.

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Speaker 1: God did you share that information?

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Speaker 2: Onto some more serious news now. An affirmative content legislation

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Speaker 2: passed the New South Wales Parliament yesterday and will now

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Speaker 2: become law in the state. New South Wales Attorney General

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Speaker 2: Mark Speakman said in the statement no law can ever

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Speaker 2: raise the trauma of sexual assault, but we have listened

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Speaker 2: to calls for change and consulted victim survivors and legal

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Speaker 2: experts to improve our response to sexual violence.

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Speaker 1: And I'll be speaking to Saxon Mullins, who was really

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Speaker 1: pivotal in making this happen, So stay listening for that interview.

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Speaker 1: Over to the Northern Territory now, where there were three

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Speaker 1: new cases of COVID nineteen yesterday, all of whom were

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Speaker 1: close contacts. The new cases include an infant from Robertson

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Speaker 1: River who had been taken to hospital in a stable condition.

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Speaker 1: The NT's COVID outbreak now stands at forty cases.

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Speaker 2: It's raining rain, Hallelujah, It's raining rain. The Bureau of

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Speaker 2: Meteorology has confirmed a La Nina weather event is underway

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Speaker 2: in Australia, which will likely last until at least January. Ultimately,

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Speaker 2: this means that there will be cooler temperatures and wetter conditions,

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Speaker 2: so don't put away your umbrella too early this summer.

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Speaker 1: Today's good news is that Portugal has become the fourth

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Speaker 1: country in the European Union to end its use of

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Speaker 1: coal for electricity generation after it closed its last coal

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Speaker 1: fired power plant over the weekend. It comes nine years

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Speaker 1: before the country's twenty thirty gold to end the use

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Speaker 1: of fossil fuel. It quick cads up. Today's chat talks

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Speaker 1: about consent and also mentions sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: Today's guest on the podcast is Saxon Mullins. Saxon Mullins

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Speaker 2: is the director of Advocacy at the Rape and Sexual

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Speaker 2: Assault Research and Advocacy In twenty eighteen, Saxon appeared on

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Speaker 2: four Corners episode titled I Am That Girl, where she

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Speaker 2: gave up her anonymity to tell the story of her

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen sexual assault and the subsequent criminal trials and appeals.

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Speaker 2: This episode led to the New South Wales Attorney General

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Speaker 2: asking the New South Wales Law Reform Commission to review

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Speaker 2: the section of the Crimes Acts that deals with consent

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Speaker 2: in relation to sexual assault, amongst other things. Saxon has

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Speaker 2: received the Australian Human Rights Commissions twenty eighteen Young Person's

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Speaker 2: Human Rights Medal and this was the chat that her

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Speaker 2: and Zara had late yesterday after some very important laws

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Speaker 2: were passed in New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: Saxon, thank you so much for joining me today on

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Well done. You have been really pivotal

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Speaker 1: in this legislation and in the success of this legislation.

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Speaker 1: If our audience is an across it in great detail,

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Speaker 1: can you run us through what this affirmative consent legislation means?

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Speaker 3: Sure, the definition of affirmative consent is actually quite simple,

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Speaker 3: so in practice it just means that when you want

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Speaker 3: to sleep with somebody, you ask them if they also

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Speaker 3: want to sleep with you. If you want to engage

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Speaker 3: in a sexual act with somebody, you ask if they

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Speaker 3: want to engage in it with you. In terms of

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Speaker 3: the law, it means if someone wants to rely on

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Speaker 3: the defense that they had an honest and reasonable belief

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Speaker 3: in someone's consent, they have to show what steps they

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Speaker 3: took to ascertain that consent. So consent cannot just be

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Speaker 3: assumed based on nothing. You have to actually ask or

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Speaker 3: do something to ascertain that person's consent.

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Speaker 1: And so how does that change from what the legislation

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Speaker 1: might have looked like previous to this change.

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Speaker 3: Fundamentally, it just means that previously in New South Wales,

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Speaker 3: if somebody wanted to rely on the honest and reasonable

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Speaker 3: belief in consent defense, that's all pretty much they had

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Speaker 3: to say. You know, there was no sort of steps

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Speaker 3: aspect to it to find out what they did, what

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Speaker 3: steps they took to find out if the other person

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Speaker 3: was consenting. So, for example, in my own case, the

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Speaker 3: accused assumed that I was consenting based off certain things.

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Speaker 3: That's not really the case anymore. You do have to

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Speaker 3: go out of your way to not just assume based

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Speaker 3: on someone's actions. You have to ask if they are consenting.

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Speaker 1: It seems so logical, and yet it's taken so long

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Speaker 1: for us to get here. I'd love to know, as

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Speaker 1: a survivor, what role you played in getting this legislation

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Speaker 1: up and seeing it as successful as it was yesterday.

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Speaker 3: So I first told my own story back in twenty

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Speaker 3: eighteen to ABC's Four Corners and the next day the

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Speaker 3: New South Wales Attorney General Mark Speakman announced a review

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Speaker 3: into the sexual consent laws in New South Wales. That

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Speaker 3: review lasted a very long time and ultimately did not

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Speaker 3: recommend affirmative consent laws in New South Wales. Part of

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Speaker 3: their reason being that the worry that it would be

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Speaker 3: onerous on accues and things like that that is not

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Speaker 3: really how the affirmative consent law works. They may have

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Speaker 3: had some friends in the New South Wales Bar Association

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Speaker 3: who might have talked in their area a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but thankfully the New Southwales Change General Mark Speakman sort

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Speaker 3: of saw what the point of this law reform Commission

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Speaker 3: review was and went further and recommended affirmative consent model

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Speaker 3: in New South Wales. So, you know, it was my

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Speaker 3: story that was sort of the catalyst for all of this,

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Speaker 3: and it was good to see that from the New

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Speaker 3: South Wales Law Firm recommendations it would not have changed

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Speaker 3: my case at all. So we were really glad that

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Speaker 3: Mark Speakman sort of listened to survivor's voices and expert

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Speaker 3: voices to say that, you know, a firm of concern

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Speaker 3: is really what's needed here.

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Speaker 1: So you've just touched on it a bit. But I'm

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Speaker 1: curious in your mind why you think that this legislation

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Speaker 1: passed now. Do you think that there has been a

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Speaker 1: change in politics in Parliament or do you think that

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Speaker 1: it was just that time was up and that something

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Speaker 1: needed to give.

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Speaker 3: I think it is about the time that we're in.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's so many things at the moment, Australian

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Speaker 3: of the Year, you know, Survivors Grace in the cover

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Speaker 3: of our magazines, things like that, really showing that the

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Speaker 3: appetite that Australia currently has for talking about this. I

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Speaker 3: think sexual violence is one of those things that we

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Speaker 3: have been very scared to talk about, and I think

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Speaker 3: there are still certain circles in which, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: still terrifying to talk about and people just don't want

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Speaker 3: to do it. It is becoming more of an open

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Speaker 3: conversation and so I think that helps to, you know,

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Speaker 3: make it not this massive taboo thing that MPs are

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Speaker 3: not going to want to touch with the ten foot pole,

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Speaker 3: but actually get stuck into and do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: We've seen Victoria in recent weeks announce a similar move.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect that other states and territories across Australia

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Speaker 1: will follow this course of action.

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Speaker 3: I really hope they do. It's really amazing to hear

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Speaker 3: that Victoria is going to follow suit. I think seeing

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Speaker 3: big states like New South Wales and Victoria, it's sort

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Speaker 3: of easy for them to say since Tasmania has had

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Speaker 3: this law for many, many years, it's easy for them

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Speaker 3: to just say, well, you know, that's a very small

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Speaker 3: population size, it's a small everything. We can't say that

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Speaker 3: that's a good case study for it. Whereas when New

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Speaker 3: South Wales is willing to put it to the test

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Speaker 3: and Victoria is willing to put it to the test,

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Speaker 3: I think that really shows that this is a really

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Speaker 3: sound law that we should have all around Australia. Queensland

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Speaker 3: really had an opportunity recently, not too long ago, they

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Speaker 3: had a Law Reform Commission of their own and the

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Speaker 3: review there just fell very very far from what would

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Speaker 3: be needed and what advocates and experts were sort of

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Speaker 3: asking for. So I think there was a real missed

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Speaker 3: opportunity in Queensland and it would be good to see

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Speaker 3: them legislate for affirmative consent and sort of make up

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Speaker 3: for that.

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Speaker 1: As an advocate. Now that this has passed the New

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Speaker 1: South Wales Parliament, what is next for you? Is there

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Speaker 1: another area of the law that you want to tackle

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Speaker 1: or is this it? Are you now going to turn

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Speaker 1: your mind to other things?

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Speaker 3: Well, hopefully my days of fighting for laws are over,

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Speaker 3: but we're of course going to lobby for all Australian

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Speaker 3: states to have affirmative consent laws. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: good when you have a bargaining if, like, well New

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Speaker 3: South Wales did it, why don't you do it? So

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Speaker 3: that's always a bit easier. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: we've always said that it's important to couple changes of

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Speaker 3: the law with education, so comprehensive relationship and sexuality education

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Speaker 3: is what we're sort of really advocating for as well,

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Speaker 3: so we'll definitely get stuck into that.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations Saxon, you've changed the law. You're a legend. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: No thank you for having me