Speaker 1: Good a mate, How are you today?
Speaker 2: I'm good, thanks and Bennett's a terrific pleasure to be
Speaker 2: with you on this podcast. And I must admit I'm
Speaker 2: only a recent devatee to TV Reload. I've thoroughly enjoyed
Speaker 2: what I've heard and it's terrific to get all the
Speaker 2: insights from so many different people across the industry on
Speaker 2: both sides of the camera.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's so exciting to have you on
Speaker 1: TV Reload. Everyone in the Australian television world knows who
Speaker 1: you are and everyone in Australia has been watching your
Speaker 1: work in one way or another, so it's quite exciting
Speaker 1: to be able to have you here. But how did
Speaker 1: you get started in the industry?
Speaker 2: Look, I think I always had a great love of
Speaker 2: wanting to entertain people and that goes back to my
Speaker 2: school days really. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I love putting on a show and I think that
Speaker 2: that really started back in those days at school. And
Speaker 2: when I left school, I really wanted to get into
Speaker 2: television and at the time I was successful in getting
Speaker 2: an opportunity with the ABC as a specialist trainer and
Speaker 2: my dad, whilst he was very encouraging in my career.
Speaker 2: Wasn't sure that television was going to be a very
Speaker 2: secure industry for me, but he certainly encouraged me to
Speaker 2: take the position with the ABC, but also wanted me
Speaker 2: to pursue a tertiary education. And so for the first
Speaker 2: twelve months I was working at ABC Television in Sydney
Speaker 2: and I was studying part time a business degree. And
Speaker 2: after twelve months, I just thought, look, my passion was
Speaker 2: really was really wanting to be in entertainment full time.
Speaker 2: So I took the decision to my dad insisted on
Speaker 2: I get a degree. So I took the decision to
Speaker 2: leave the ABC and I went to university full time.
Speaker 2: And it was the first year of the communications degree
Speaker 2: at what is now known as the University of Technology
Speaker 2: in Sydney, and the first holiday job I had and
Speaker 2: my semester break was working at a factory in Sydney
Speaker 2: literally midnight to dawn for White Wings catching Himself Flower
Speaker 2: And after four weeks, I thought there's got to be
Speaker 2: a better way to make a dollar as I'm going
Speaker 2: through UNI, and so I reached out to the guys
Speaker 2: that I used to organize the movies when I was
Speaker 2: at school. I used to organize surf movies and show them.
Speaker 2: And I contacted the distributors of those surf movies and
Speaker 2: I said, look, I'm looking for some work during the
Speaker 2: holiday periods whilst I'm at UNI. If there's any opportunities,
Speaker 2: please keep me in mind. And sure enough, there was
Speaker 2: an opportunity that came up or showing surf movies down
Speaker 2: the New South Wales South coast, and so I took
Speaker 2: that opportunity and literally every semester break for three years,
Speaker 2: I would load up a comedy van with two sixteen
Speaker 2: millimeter projectors, a blue bucket poster is a staple gun,
Speaker 2: and I would travel from town to town showing surf
Speaker 2: movies from the southern suburbs of Sydney all the way
Speaker 2: down to the Victorian border, and then over the summer
Speaker 2: breaks I would extend that tour.
Speaker 3: To go across another board.
Speaker 2: I would show movies all through regional Victoria, South Australia
Speaker 2: and West Australia up to Geralden. Did that for three years,
Speaker 2: and at that stage surf movies were the rage and
Speaker 2: surfers would flock to the local town hall and pay
Speaker 2: their five dollars and watch the latest movie from some
Speaker 2: of the great surf filmmakers from the US, and that's
Speaker 2: where I really learned the trade. That's where I despite
Speaker 2: all the wonderful things that happened through a university degree,
Speaker 2: I really think the university of life for me was
Speaker 2: showing those surf movies and learning how to promote and
Speaker 2: how to market and standing in the back of those
Speaker 2: town halls and watching two hundred and three hundred people
Speaker 2: really get a thrill out of watching a movie that
Speaker 2: you were showing. And I think that's when I knew
Speaker 2: that entertainment was going to be my destiny. And so
Speaker 2: when I completed my degree, I was convinced that I
Speaker 2: wanted to be in the entertainment game full time. I
Speaker 2: wasn't quite sure where that would take me. So my
Speaker 2: first job out of UNI was working for David Elfick
Speaker 2: and Film Noise in a company called Palm Beach Pictures,
Speaker 2: and they were very successful Australian filmmakers. At the time,
Speaker 2: Phil was just launching his career, David Elphick was establishing
Speaker 2: himself as a major player and some of the features
Speaker 2: that Palm Beach Pictures produced included news Front, which I
Speaker 2: think to this day is still regarded as one of
Speaker 2: the great Australian motion pictures. I guess the theme that
Speaker 2: was constant for me was my involvement in professional surfing,
Speaker 2: either showing surf movies or now working at a company
Speaker 2: like Palm Beach Pitches, and so an opportunity came up
Speaker 2: then to get more involved in professional surfing, which I
Speaker 2: did as from a filmmaker's perspective, and that led me
Speaker 2: through a long story I owned board or listeners, but
Speaker 2: it led me to my first real, I guess, professional job,
Speaker 2: which was actually in radio, and I was promotions and
Speaker 2: publicity manager for a radio station in Sydney which was
Speaker 2: then the number one rock station to SM and I
Speaker 2: was there for five years, and you know that two
Speaker 2: SM was a citadel of rock and roll, and I
Speaker 2: learned so much and that's when I guess my first
Speaker 2: mentor came into my life amazing legendary radio kingmaker by
Speaker 2: the name of John Brennan, and he really had a
Speaker 2: profound influence on my career. And I learned a lot
Speaker 2: about radio from Breno and I had five fantastic years
Speaker 2: at two a SM. This is a very long answer
Speaker 2: to a real short question, Ben.
Speaker 1: Sorry, no, I'm fascinated. Just to let you know, I'm
Speaker 1: from a family of storytellers and nobody, nobody in our
Speaker 1: family ever told a short story. So and the funny
Speaker 1: thing was, I would always go and sit at the
Speaker 1: table with all of the adults as a kid and
Speaker 1: listen to my grandparents and my parents and basically anyone
Speaker 1: that was capable of telling a story, and just loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved hearing people's story. I love hearing anybody talk
Speaker 1: about something that they feel really passionate about. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can hear that in the way you're telling your
Speaker 1: story just now. It might seem like a long answer,
Speaker 1: but I think it's fascinating for me to understand and
Speaker 1: for listeners to understand that you've really been on the
Speaker 1: ground floor. You've watched audiences watch entertainment. You've watched how
Speaker 1: they've absorbed it, and all of these things that you've
Speaker 1: picked up along the way, and all the things you've
Speaker 1: heard from mentors have allowed you to be where you are.
Speaker 1: And for a lot of people out there, you know,
Speaker 1: people be like, oh, well, you know you've been at
Speaker 1: Foxtel for so long, and what's the backstory to that? Like,
Speaker 1: how did you get there, and I think people need
Speaker 1: to realize that you've got to do the hard yards,
Speaker 1: which from this, that's what you're telling me. You know,
Speaker 1: you're telling me that you've got to go out there
Speaker 1: and email these people, ask if the work is there,
Speaker 1: and then prove yourself.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, connecting with audiences, they're respected
Speaker 2: of the medium radio, television, film. Connecting with audience is
Speaker 2: paramount to anyone's success.
Speaker 3: But all me, it goes back to being in a
Speaker 3: town halls and.
Speaker 2: Showing movies to people and seeing the enjoyment of that brings.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, when you go back to the
Speaker 2: origins of the Traveling Picture show Man, it.
Speaker 3: Goes back to those days.
Speaker 2: And in radio, what I loved about IDEO was that
Speaker 2: I know was promotions manage the radio station. So I
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in prime ovns, going around
Speaker 2: the beaches, going through the suburbs.
Speaker 3: Really mixing with audiences.
Speaker 2: And it still continues to this day with the fms
Speaker 2: and promotional vehicles that go out and about, and I
Speaker 2: think that for me is so key. You've got to
Speaker 2: know your audience irrespective of what the radio format is.
Speaker 2: Unless you can connect with those audiences, You're never going
Speaker 2: to really be successful in that arena. And that's what
Speaker 2: I've taken through to television, and I wouldn't have enjoyed any.
Speaker 3: Of the success that I've had in television.
Speaker 2: I've had those foundation years in radio and before that
Speaker 2: showing those surf movies, and even in television. One of
Speaker 2: the early lessons I learned was the importance of connecting
Speaker 2: with audiences fundamentally on a level that you could really
Speaker 2: connect and talk to people. And that's not sitting behind
Speaker 2: a reversed glass mirror while a research group's going on,
Speaker 2: and you've got to talk to people and ask them.
Speaker 2: And when I was at Channel ten, and I was
Speaker 2: at Channel ten through the eighties through what was a
Speaker 2: successful decade for that network, and two of the programmers,
Speaker 2: Tom Warn and John Stevens used to literally doorknock. Tom Warn,
Speaker 2: who was one of the most successful television programmers in
Speaker 2: the history of Australian television, would literally doorknock up and
Speaker 2: down the street. John Stevens would sit on his favorite
Speaker 2: stool at the bar at Balmain League's Club in Sydney
Speaker 2: and talk to blue collar workers about what they watched
Speaker 2: on television. The night before and that helped inform those
Speaker 2: two programmers about the science of creating successful shows for Ten.
Speaker 2: And I think all of that's important when you consider
Speaker 2: the fragmentation of video today in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: I think that people these days, you know, people in
Speaker 1: positions like yourself, need to understand that a little bit more.
Speaker 1: You know, need to understand that going out there and
Speaker 1: talking to the community and understanding the community is.
Speaker 3: Vital, absolutely, and that holds true to this day.
Speaker 1: And so then I know that you went from Ten
Speaker 1: and then you got into Foxtel, So how did Foxtel
Speaker 1: happen for you?
Speaker 2: So I, as I mentioned, I was at Ten through
Speaker 2: the eighties and it was a fantastic time to be
Speaker 2: working in Australian television, particularly Ten. Ten gets such a
Speaker 2: rough run, I think unfairly if you look back at
Speaker 2: the history of that network. The Ten network has a
Speaker 2: proud tradition of great Australian television and particularly Australian television drama.
Speaker 2: I guess some of the younger people listening to this
Speaker 2: podcast might be aware, but certainly during the eighties the
Speaker 2: signature quality Australian stories were on the Ten network, largely
Speaker 2: through Kennedy Miller production company, responsible for series such as Vietnam, Bangkok, Hillton,
Speaker 2: Dirt Water Dynasty, the Cawra Breakout. It was an amazing
Speaker 2: time for the Ten Network. It was also the decade,
Speaker 2: of course, most famously where Channel ten acquired Neighbors, which
Speaker 2: was on the seven network at the time and was
Speaker 2: very successful on HSV in Melbourne but not a success
Speaker 2: in Sydney on ATM and so seven walked away from
Speaker 2: the show and at the time Channel ten was running
Speaker 2: Mash five nights a week at seven o'clock for the
Speaker 2: undeenth time. I remember the day that the boss of
Speaker 2: the ten network at the time came in, instead, we're
Speaker 2: going to pick up Neighbors, and we controversially took the
Speaker 2: show from the seven network to the Ten network. And
Speaker 2: I was head of publicity for ten at the time
Speaker 2: and we had a lot of fun we sticking it
Speaker 2: up the opposition when we pinched Neighbors. One of the
Speaker 2: stories that I look back ben with great fondness was
Speaker 2: I organized a couple of large semi trailers to be
Speaker 2: parked outside the Channel seven studios in Sydney at Epping
Speaker 2: and I had the construction team at ten and build
Speaker 2: what looked like some of the some of the insides
Speaker 2: of the homes from Ramsey Street, and I brought the
Speaker 2: past up and we put them on the back of
Speaker 2: these trucks and we did a live cross to Good
Speaker 2: Morning Australia and the trucks had these banners saying we're
Speaker 2: moving neighbors to a new home. And the Channel seven
Speaker 2: security guard was none the wiser. I think he probably
Speaker 2: lost his job over it. And so after that run
Speaker 2: of ten, I really wanted to go out on my
Speaker 2: own and do my own thing, and in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: I left ten to start up my own consultancy and
Speaker 2: my first client was the boss of what was the
Speaker 2: opposition for many years, Channel nine. So Stam Chisholm, legendary
Speaker 2: figure around the nine network, and said, I'm starting a
Speaker 2: new role with News Corporation in the UK starting up
Speaker 2: satellite television and I think.
Speaker 3: We could do with some help.
Speaker 2: So that really was an invitation for me to move
Speaker 2: to the UK and be part of the foundation to
Speaker 2: start Sky. So I went over there in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: and we launched it as incredibly exciting as you can imagine,
Speaker 2: and so we created satellite television and Sky was born
Speaker 2: twenty four multi channels. It was a breathtaking change for
Speaker 2: British television viewers and that was an incredible time. And
Speaker 2: you know, of course Rupert Murdoch was very hands on
Speaker 2: with Sky in those days. So my path to Foxtel
Speaker 2: really came about through that time at Sky. And after
Speaker 2: three years at Sky, I was then moved to Hong
Speaker 2: Kong when News Corporate quiet Star TV, and I was
Speaker 2: involved with Star and launched Channel V, the music channel
Speaker 2: as it was then, through Asia. So that was like
Speaker 2: launching a music channel in fifty three countries, which for
Speaker 2: a kid from suburban Sydney was extraordinary and pretty daunting impressive.
Speaker 2: So after Star, of course the next move was Australia
Speaker 2: and then and.
Speaker 1: Then here we are. I mean, the main reason I
Speaker 1: wanted to chat with you is that you know, you're
Speaker 1: the man in hard of increasing folks tells Australian produced entertainment,
Speaker 1: which is quite an impressive job. What's the importance in
Speaker 1: your mind of creating Australian made shows and having ourselves
Speaker 1: be seen on screen.
Speaker 2: I think people like me are in very very privileged positions.
Speaker 2: It's incumbent on us to ensure that we reflect our
Speaker 2: national identity and that we tap into the national conversation,
Speaker 2: or if we don't tap into the national conversation, then
Speaker 2: we should we should start on. And I think Australian
Speaker 2: storytelling is so important and I'm a big advocate.
Speaker 3: For telling our stories.
Speaker 2: I don't see how we can pass on our identity
Speaker 2: to the generations to come unless we're accurately reflecting the
Speaker 2: sort of Australia we're living in. I think that still
Speaker 2: holds two. I think that Australians still, by and large
Speaker 2: want to watch Australian stories. We want to see the
Speaker 2: best that the US and Britain and other parts of
Speaker 2: the world have to offer.
Speaker 3: But we have to tell our stories about our people.
Speaker 3: You know. The one point of difference that Foxtel has
Speaker 3: with all.
Speaker 2: Of the competition we have in the payworld is that
Speaker 2: we're an Australian company and that we commission Australian stories.
Speaker 2: And if those stories happen to get picked up by
Speaker 2: other parts of the world, that's great, but that shouldn't
Speaker 2: be the driving force. We shouldn't be driven by whether
Speaker 2: a show is seen in one hundred and fifty three
Speaker 2: countries like wentworth Is. Although that's a wonderful accolade to
Speaker 2: have to talk about. That shouldn't be the driver. The
Speaker 2: driver should be whether we're making television that connects with
Speaker 2: our Australian audiences.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it's important for us to be
Speaker 1: able to be seen on screen. I think young people
Speaker 1: as well need to be seen on screen. You know,
Speaker 1: younger people are finding entertainment on different streaming services, but
Speaker 1: Foxtel really is a portal that I think is still
Speaker 1: viable for people to see themselves on screen. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, I think that the interesting thing for me Ben
Speaker 2: in those formative years of Foxtel, we were the like
Speaker 2: you know, to use the expression, we were the last
Speaker 2: cab on the rank in that we would producers. It
Speaker 2: would come to us with show ideas and they were
Speaker 2: all the shows that had been rejected by seven nineteen
Speaker 2: in the public broadcasters, and we were just getting kind
Speaker 2: of getting what are we missing here? Why are we
Speaker 2: getting all the shows to the others to rejected? Why
Speaker 2: can't we make our own mark? And there was a
Speaker 2: significant turning point I think for us when we commissioned
Speaker 2: Love My Way, it's.
Speaker 1: My favorite show of all time. It was so amazing
Speaker 1: that you guys had picked that up, because I think
Speaker 1: in lots of ways, the other networks wouldn't have taken
Speaker 1: something that saw such flawed characters, you know, and showed
Speaker 1: people being real. I think it was an ability that
Speaker 1: Foxdelle could offer that show and that show's creators that
Speaker 1: no other network could have done.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yes, I mean all creditors, John Edwards and
Speaker 2: Claudia Carbon and Brendan Powell and Asher I'm an incredible
Speaker 2: team behind that show. I think that what surprised them
Speaker 2: when we commissioned the show was in all the creative
Speaker 2: sessions and all the writing rooms, just kept telling them
Speaker 2: to go further. And you know, they, like a lot
Speaker 2: of producers, they had worked in the commercial sector where
Speaker 2: there are so many guidelines about what you can and
Speaker 2: can't do on television. We just told them to throw
Speaker 2: the rule book out and go hard and be provocative.
Speaker 2: We were the Challenger brand, as you can imagine, at
Speaker 2: the time, and we wanted to make an impact and
Speaker 2: the only way we could do that meaningfully was to
Speaker 2: give them complete creative license. And we talked to producers
Speaker 2: as about why they love working for Netflix, and they'll
Speaker 2: tell you that it's because they're given creative autonomy. I'd
Speaker 2: like to think that's what we gave those producers with
Speaker 2: Love my Way. It's all about you've got to if
Speaker 2: you're going to engage with the creative community, you have
Speaker 2: to allow their creative vision to go to the screen.
Speaker 2: Network notes are important, but you know, if you're going
Speaker 2: to commission the show, you're commissioning someone's vision. It's like
Speaker 2: telling an author to write a book and then trying
Speaker 2: to edit what they write. You just don't do that,
Speaker 2: and you don't do it. You don't do it with
Speaker 2: television drama. And I think that's why I Love my
Speaker 2: Way work.
Speaker 1: Thanks to my were friends. Well, I think it's worth
Speaker 1: a try. If he killed himself and he's a.
Speaker 3: Coward, no, no, no, they've got a million dollars.
Speaker 1: He was a drunk and a gambler and he calls
Speaker 1: them nothing.
Speaker 3: But pay So is this chicken bult to the family cult?
Speaker 2: This is disgusting.
Speaker 1: What's bumped my family? That's the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I love to hear me. I'm not you fank out mother,
Speaker 1: aren't you? Oh? I's not supposed to me. But what
Speaker 1: about these kids growing up? Without a famcun.
Speaker 2: I knew you wouldn't understand, mate, because you never screw
Speaker 2: up to you, it's in human.
Speaker 3: I think that really changed the game.
Speaker 2: That show changed the game certainly for us, and I
Speaker 2: would like to think for Australian writers and producers and
Speaker 2: that passion that went into that show back then is
Speaker 2: still very much alive today with all of our commissioners
Speaker 2: here at the company that Love My Way is such
Speaker 2: a reference point.
Speaker 1: You know, I was talking to Samantha Strauss on this
Speaker 1: podcast only a few weeks ago, and you know she
Speaker 1: was inspired by Love my Way. You know, that kind
Speaker 1: of writing had allowed her to sort of think outside
Speaker 1: the box and then go hard. And I watched all
Speaker 1: of in the end in one sitting, the end, sorry,
Speaker 1: not in the end, the end. I watched it all
Speaker 1: in one sitting, and I just was blown away by
Speaker 1: how far we'd even come from Love my Way, because
Speaker 1: there was things that was happening in this new show
Speaker 1: that was groundbreaking all over again.
Speaker 2: And certainly if you were remaking Love my Way today,
Speaker 2: you would have a lot more diversely the characters, and
Speaker 2: you would and you should be showing the modern face
Speaker 2: of Australia and I think we've been somewhat not so
Speaker 2: much with the public broadcast, but I think in the
Speaker 2: commercial world, I don't think we've accurately reflected the modern
Speaker 2: face of Australia, and I think that's important that we do.
Speaker 2: And I think we also have to be telling stories
Speaker 2: that are resonating with younger Australians. And I mean, I
Speaker 2: think I think Australians have a lot of choice with
Speaker 2: what they watch. I think, you know, I think it's
Speaker 2: our responsibility to ensure that we're delivering stories that bring
Speaker 2: them back to Fox Sell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and not to move away from scripted reality
Speaker 1: and the importance of Foxtail's show The End. Do you
Speaker 1: think we'll get a second series of that series? Do
Speaker 1: you think Samantha Strauss will come back and do another
Speaker 1: series event?
Speaker 2: Look, I'd like to. It really depends on the story.
Speaker 2: It all comes back to story then, and there's no
Speaker 2: doubting that Samantha Strows is an exceptional writer. And if
Speaker 2: anyone can nail a great hip story, it's it's Sam.
Speaker 2: So if the story is there, we will absolutely would
Speaker 2: absolutely love to continue doing it.
Speaker 1: I'll be there for it. That's for sure, who would
Speaker 1: you say is Foxtel's biggest competitor now?
Speaker 2: I think any paying subscription platform is obvious. Is the
Speaker 2: obvious answer to that? To that question, I think things
Speaker 2: have changed a lot in the last few years. Free
Speaker 2: to wear television to me is very much focused around
Speaker 2: competition reality, and you know that their sweet spot is
Speaker 2: six pm to nine pm, and after that they've kind
Speaker 2: of conceded that people go to pay services. So I
Speaker 2: don't think we're really competing there in free toowear television.
Speaker 2: Competition reality is not something that we necessarily spend a
Speaker 2: lot of time on because seven, nine and ten do
Speaker 2: it so well in our lifestyle genre. We like to
Speaker 2: think that what separates us from free to wear television
Speaker 2: is that our lifestyle shows in particular are informative, inspirational
Speaker 2: as well as entertaining, So we tend to dial down
Speaker 2: the idea of competition and dial up inspiration and I
Speaker 2: think that comes through in shows like Selling Houses, Love It.
Speaker 3: A List, Yeah, definitely, bake off. It's the joy of
Speaker 3: that endeavor.
Speaker 2: So competition is the consumer and how they spend their
Speaker 2: disposable income, and they've got so many choices now as
Speaker 2: to how they spend that money. Every week there's another
Speaker 2: app being launched that represents competition for Foxtail, and I
Speaker 2: think that makes us sharper. And going back to what
Speaker 2: I spoke of before, I think the Australian flavor of
Speaker 2: our content and our commissioning is more important now than
Speaker 2: ever because I think that there's so many good shows
Speaker 2: on a number of services. You can pick any one
Speaker 2: of the streaming services and you can list off four
Speaker 2: or five must see TV shows and that includes Foxtail.
Speaker 3: So what's going to separate us? What's going to differentiate us?
Speaker 3: It has to be.
Speaker 2: Those shows that can see on Fox tell that you
Speaker 2: can't see anywhere else.
Speaker 1: What about free to wear television? Though, I mean you
Speaker 1: touched on something. Then about these competition based reality shows
Speaker 1: taking up that sweet spot and the audience numbers have decreased.
Speaker 1: What do you see happening with Free to Wear in
Speaker 1: that regard? Do you think that they're can have to
Speaker 1: get better in the ways in which they tell those
Speaker 1: competition based reality TV shows or do you think they
Speaker 1: need to move away from them.
Speaker 2: Free to wear television it's all about live eyeballs. That's
Speaker 2: where the revenue is for them. I mean the end
Speaker 2: of the day, their business model is based on how
Speaker 2: many people are watching a show at any given time
Speaker 2: so that they can deliver an against number two ad
Speaker 2: agencies who will buy that time for their clients. So
Speaker 2: it's all about live viewing for free TV. It's not
Speaker 2: about that necessarily for the subscription universe. So for free
Speaker 2: TV news, sport, competition reality requires live viewing, and for
Speaker 2: that reason then I don't see the model changing. I
Speaker 2: think the interesting observation is the sort of competition reality
Speaker 2: in that you still have to have narrative to take
Speaker 2: audiences from one night to the next, which is why
Speaker 2: I Married at First Side is such a roaring success
Speaker 2: because it's what I would call light scripted people. You know,
Speaker 2: people aren't really from scripts, but there's certainly a narrative
Speaker 2: that keeps people their night after night after night. You
Speaker 2: don't have that same requirement with Holy Mole. You don't
Speaker 2: have that same requirement with some of the other shows
Speaker 2: like Ultimate Tag et cetera. So I think the sort
Speaker 2: of competition reality is important. You know, certainly you know
Speaker 2: teen success off Bachelor and Bachelor at and a Celebrity.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's narrative that takes the audiences over that
Speaker 2: six week story arc that keeps people there. So competition
Speaker 2: reality is what works for free to wear television. It's
Speaker 2: the type of competition reality that I think differentiates the
Speaker 2: winners from the losers.
Speaker 1: You know, in hindsight, do you think that our television
Speaker 1: industry could have been faster adopting to digital?
Speaker 2: Well, you can't repeat history, and the Australian television industry
Speaker 2: is the most competitive in the world, I think, given
Speaker 2: our scale. I mean, we just don't have the population
Speaker 2: of other English speaking territories like the United States. You know,
Speaker 2: when you think of the population size of Australia and
Speaker 2: the amount of television we have, I think television's evolved
Speaker 2: as it has. A lot of the major players have
Speaker 2: sunk a lot of money into technology, so I think
Speaker 2: it's happened organically for all the right reasons, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that we have an industry that we should
Speaker 2: be very proud of.
Speaker 3: We have three.
Speaker 2: Successful commercial networks, we have two public broadcasters who I
Speaker 2: think both serve their audience as well with their charter
Speaker 2: and we've got a subscription television industry of which Foxtel
Speaker 2: is absolutely.
Speaker 3: The pioneer product.
Speaker 2: And now there are other competitors in market that stands
Speaker 2: up to being amongst the best in the world. And
Speaker 2: you know, I've been fortunate enough to travel around the
Speaker 2: world a lot and.
Speaker 3: Watch television in very many markets, and I'm very proud
Speaker 3: of the fox Tail product.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think that we have absolutely sought
Speaker 2: out the best television from around the world. And it's
Speaker 2: an interesting time that we're living in.
Speaker 1: Having Binge for drama and sort of Kao for sport
Speaker 1: help Foxtel's subscriptions.
Speaker 2: Well, there are two very different products with distinct personalities
Speaker 2: and catering for a completely different segment. Ko and Binge
Speaker 2: have not capitalized Foxtail in the way which you might
Speaker 2: find surprising. But people who have Binge have Binge because
Speaker 2: they are of a segment where Binge is are more
Speaker 2: affordable product. They are probably surfing between streaming services a
Speaker 2: lot more than a Foxtel customer would do. The Foxtel customer.
Speaker 2: This is anecdotal, but I can tell you that we
Speaker 2: have a very loyal customer base and they love the
Speaker 2: technology of Foxtail. They love the convenience of the IQ,
Speaker 2: they love the ability to press pause, rewind, watch, on demand,
Speaker 2: you know, to use a pizza analogy. Foxtel is all
Speaker 2: you can eat, So there's something there for everyone in
Speaker 2: the household. And it's a family product. Foxtail, whether it
Speaker 2: be sport or news, or lifestyle or entertainment, movies, boxtellers,
Speaker 2: the complete package. Those people for Binge, they're buying a
Speaker 2: pure entertainment product. Those who are buying Kore buying a
Speaker 2: pure sports product. The strategy, which is I think a
Speaker 2: very sound one, is to diversify our business to meet
Speaker 2: changing marketplace that are looking for alternatives. And both Ko
Speaker 2: and Binge have been incredible success stories.
Speaker 1: Well you know, at the moment, I am obsessed with Binge.
Speaker 1: I went to a screening of Mayor of Eastown in Melbourne,
Speaker 1: a screening of the first two episodes, and I knew
Speaker 1: nothing about the series. I went in with my best
Speaker 1: friend and we were absolutely blown away. I think it's
Speaker 1: probably Kate Winslet's best role today, which is a really
Speaker 1: hard thing to say because she has just a back
Speaker 1: catalog of endless work that's just a masterclass. But Mayor
Speaker 1: of Eastown for Binge. I'm anyone listening to this go
Speaker 1: and get Bin straight away, just for this show, like,
Speaker 1: it's just so addictive. What episode are you up to
Speaker 1: in Mayor of Eastown?
Speaker 2: My money up to episode three. But Mayor of Eastown
Speaker 2: has blowness away in terms of performance numbers. It's so
Speaker 2: close to doing the sort of numbers that The Undoing did,
Speaker 2: and The Undoing has been the most successful drama outside
Speaker 2: of Game of Thrones, the most successful drama launch ever
Speaker 2: in the history of Foxtown. And Mayor of Eastown is
Speaker 2: going to becoming a very very close sect quite extraordinary,
Speaker 2: And I agree with you, Ben, I think Kate Winslet's
Speaker 2: is going to win every award.
Speaker 1: I just from the very moment this character emerged on screen,
Speaker 1: it wasn't Kate Winslett, you know, it was somebody who
Speaker 1: you know. Just the mannerisms, with everything that Mayor does
Speaker 1: through this show is just so relatable in this kind
Speaker 1: of attractive but repulsive way. It's magnificent television. And I
Speaker 1: just keep thinking about how far we've come from having
Speaker 1: characters and stories that you used to only see in
Speaker 1: the cinema now being accessible and available on programs like
Speaker 1: bingch It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I think certainly the pandemic changed a lot of things forever,
Speaker 2: and we always knew that there was great storytelling on
Speaker 2: television through the supplies like HBO. But I think that
Speaker 2: the pandemic has certainly convinced a lot of people that
Speaker 2: you don't have to go to the cinema have a
Speaker 2: great story. I think cinema will always have its place,
Speaker 2: and it's a fantastic experience, big screen experience for that.
Speaker 2: But the way we're getting big screen TV's at home
Speaker 2: now and it's just changed dramatically in terms of our
Speaker 2: in terms of our viewing habits.
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a binge cinema because
Speaker 1: watching the first two episodes of Mayor of Eastown in
Speaker 1: the cinema was amazing, and I just think there should
Speaker 1: be a binge cinema. I wonder if something like that
Speaker 1: can happen. I mean, I know you're saying people are
Speaker 1: having home cinemas and having big screens, but that communal
Speaker 1: experience of being in a cinema and watching this sort
Speaker 1: of event television. I wonder if there's a place for that.
Speaker 2: Well, it might take you back to those days of
Speaker 2: showing movies in those.
Speaker 1: Town halls exactly right, you know, did HBO and Binge like,
Speaker 1: you know, did that come along at the right time
Speaker 1: for Foxtel. I mean, when did that deal start to evolve.
Speaker 2: It's no secret that there was a very competitive hitch
Speaker 2: happening with one of the other players in the market.
Speaker 2: And so you know, we've got an amazing head of
Speaker 2: content at Foxtel, Amandalaying our head of Content and commercial
Speaker 2: and is an amazing negotiator.
Speaker 3: That was a hard fought.
Speaker 2: Win to retain HBO and in the new deal we
Speaker 2: have with Wornermedia, we have all of the HBO and
Speaker 2: HBO Max products. So we knew it was an important
Speaker 2: deal to get because not only would it continue the
Speaker 2: great legacy that we had with HBO for Foxtel, but
Speaker 2: it would also provide us with exceptional content and HBO
Speaker 2: Max or Binge and HBO Max in the US and
Speaker 2: Binge here in Australia very much aimed at the same segment.
Speaker 2: So you know, females eighteen to four b that's kind
Speaker 2: of the target group HBO Max and the target group
Speaker 2: her Binge.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Now I need to talk Housewives. I'm loving
Speaker 1: the new cast. By the way, I was lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be there with you for the launch in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: It was just such a magnificent day. I was just
Speaker 1: so good to be able to see these women who
Speaker 1: were so impressive. But I want to ask, you know,
Speaker 1: how did it go with gene Leana when she gave
Speaker 1: you the news that she wouldn't be returning to Real Housewives.
Speaker 1: I remember on the day you might have said something
Speaker 1: like you'd gone out to a lunch. How did Gina's
Speaker 1: exit from that show go down with you?
Speaker 3: Look? It was it was tough news to receive that.
Speaker 2: She indicated to the producer's match box that she didn't
Speaker 2: want to continue. Very early on when the border, when
Speaker 2: the border restrictions were lifted, I took one of the
Speaker 2: first flights to Melbourne to meet with Gina and we
Speaker 2: had a really terrific afternoon talking about her life and
Speaker 2: how things have changed for her through the pandemic.
Speaker 3: And I came away from that meeting.
Speaker 2: You know, you come away from meetings like that with
Speaker 2: talent sometimes when you know that they've made the right
Speaker 2: decision for them and for their happiness. And I knew
Speaker 2: after that meeting that there was no way of convincing
Speaker 2: her to stay with the show. She rediscovered her love
Speaker 2: and passion for the law. The pandemic had provided an
Speaker 2: opportunity for her to continue her legal practice virtually, and
Speaker 2: she really got a lot of great personal reward from that.
Speaker 2: And you know, she just said to me that she
Speaker 2: just didn't want to be a celebrity anymore. And when
Speaker 2: you hear it from someone like Gina, who's an intelligent
Speaker 2: woman who really does have a great empathy for people
Speaker 2: and for the people she represents in legal matters, I
Speaker 2: related to that. And for me then it wasn't so
Speaker 2: much about can I talk her around? It was about
Speaker 2: how are we going to evolve the show without her?
Speaker 2: And that really became for me over the summer of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, the conundrum how.
Speaker 3: Do we move forward?
Speaker 2: And I went back to Gina and Lydia on a
Speaker 2: number of occasions and thought, you know, can we do
Speaker 2: it be special together? Can we get you back of
Speaker 2: a handover? But Gina had moved on, and she'd moved
Speaker 2: on emotionally and in every way. So look, I think
Speaker 2: you've just got to really you've got to trust the
Speaker 2: producers that you surround yourself with that the show will
Speaker 2: survive without the individual. And how many times have we
Speaker 2: seen that on Australian television over many, many years, we've
Speaker 2: got so many countless examples of where talent have left
Speaker 2: shows and the shows have continued to great success. And
Speaker 2: the most recent example, of course is Master Chef. So
Speaker 2: it was not so much about having remorse for Gina
Speaker 2: not doing the show. It was about how can we
Speaker 2: recast it so that we've got some really fantastic, compelling
Speaker 2: new characters for people to relate to.
Speaker 1: Did she say to you when she walked away, good
Speaker 1: luck with your deck of cards? When she walked away
Speaker 1: from that meeting, good.
Speaker 2: Luck with your deck of cards, because that's all you've
Speaker 2: got is a deck of cards.
Speaker 3: That are back to Topple And no. No.
Speaker 2: In fact, Gina gave me a lot of very valuable
Speaker 2: actually on the show, and she said to me, and
Speaker 2: we talked about why Melbourne was such a great success
Speaker 2: and why Sydney didn't work, and she had very I
Speaker 2: think informed views that I took from her about why
Speaker 2: one work why one didn't, And the overriding theme that
Speaker 2: came through from those discussions was importance of humor. And
Speaker 2: she said, you know, you've got to keep it real,
Speaker 2: but keep the humor there.
Speaker 3: Brian that's important.
Speaker 2: As for the show, all I can tell you is
Speaker 2: where three weeks in and the fireworks are already started.
Speaker 3: And I'm excited for the new cast.
Speaker 2: It's great to have Janet and Jackie and Gamble back.
Speaker 3: I think fans of.
Speaker 2: The show will love those three Janets of shitst by
Speaker 2: her own edition. But the new girls, I think, I
Speaker 2: think they're going to give a fantastic insight into what
Speaker 2: it means to be a real housewife of Melbourne in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. The world has changed, the world has
Speaker 2: moved on, and I think in the same way, the
Speaker 2: goggle Box is very reflective of the conversations that are
Speaker 2: happening around Australia about what we watch on television.
Speaker 3: I'm certain that Real Housewives.
Speaker 2: Will also, I think, be fairly accurate representation how people
Speaker 2: are living their lives post COVID.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. You know, what do you think went wrong
Speaker 1: with that Sydney version? In your mind? And Sydney didn't
Speaker 1: get played in America? You know it was at the
Speaker 1: end of the relationship between Australian housewives being played in America?
Speaker 1: Or does Melbourne still get to be played overseas on Bravo.
Speaker 2: Melbourne's Housewives and Melbourne still plays very successfully on Bravo.
Speaker 2: Sydney Housewives did not get picked up by Bravo, and
Speaker 2: I think, you.
Speaker 3: Know, look, you've got to be honest.
Speaker 2: We got the casting wrong and chemistry is so important
Speaker 2: when it comes to these kind of shows. I think
Speaker 2: the mistake was that the Sydney women felt like they
Speaker 2: had to perform to a certain way and that it
Speaker 2: wasn't authentic, lacked authenticity, and I think they were just
Speaker 2: being aggressive with each other for the of being aggressive,
Speaker 2: and it came across as too nasty. And you know,
Speaker 2: audiences are Australian audiences. They're very honest with their assessment
Speaker 2: and they're appraisal of what they watch on television.
Speaker 3: And it just didn't gel.
Speaker 1: So no reboot of Sydney happening anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Housewives of Melbourne is our is the show that they're
Speaker 2: putting all our focus into. It's the most successful and
Speaker 2: enduring franchise and I see it running for many years
Speaker 2: to come.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought Joel Creesy was really great at
Speaker 1: hosting that Melbourne Media launch just a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Is there any chance that he might replace Alex Perry.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of Joel Creasy. In fact, I
Speaker 2: caught up with he and his manager last week. You know,
Speaker 2: the thing that I will say is this, that you
Speaker 2: talk to people about what we lack on Australian television.
Speaker 2: Everyone will tell you it's a primetime show that is
Speaker 2: a fantastic vehicle for our talent, whether they be musicians, actors, celebrities,
Speaker 2: sports people.
Speaker 3: The promoter will.
Speaker 2: Tell you that the only vehicle they have when they've
Speaker 2: got touring acts is the breakfast shows or the Project.
Speaker 2: And I think we are desperately in need of a
Speaker 2: weekly prime time variety show and if there's one person
Speaker 2: who should host it, it's Joel Creasy.
Speaker 1: I think we need to see more young TV hosts
Speaker 1: and I think what's interesting about Joel not already in
Speaker 1: that role is that, you know, maybe there is a
Speaker 1: bit of a step still to go to having an
Speaker 1: LGBTI host. I mean, in America there's Allen DeGeneres or
Speaker 1: Andy Cohen. You know, both of those are very prominent
Speaker 1: LGBTI personalities hosting shows. And in Australia don't necessarily know
Speaker 1: if we've seen that.
Speaker 2: No, we haven't, and we tend to categorize or pigeonhole people.
Speaker 2: So we go, Okay, you're funny, so we're putting you
Speaker 2: in a funny show. But we've never actually said you're funny,
Speaker 2: and you're smart, and you're a great conversationalist and you're
Speaker 2: a great interviewer. Let's create something different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. And I think Joel Creasy has
Speaker 1: some what's interesting about him is he has some social
Speaker 1: intelligence that is not seen in other presenters and other interviewers.
Speaker 1: And I think that we've for so long just said
Speaker 1: you're a comedian, you know, And I think we need
Speaker 1: to delve a little bit deeper with some of the
Speaker 1: talent that we have in this country who are more capable.
Speaker 2: I agree, And you know, again, you know that's where
Speaker 2: Channel thirty one was so important.
Speaker 3: Platform, wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so many others.
Speaker 2: So we have to absolutely as an industry ensure that
Speaker 2: we have an opportunity for incubation and for ideas, and
Speaker 2: we have to take risks. You know, so much of
Speaker 2: television is safe, but we need to take some risks
Speaker 2: and let some things fail. You know, someone told me
Speaker 2: once at eighty percent of television is failure we need
Speaker 2: to be braver. We need to be bolder. And look,
Speaker 2: it's been very unusual time the last two years. The
Speaker 2: networks have been hurting commercially. Money's not as free as
Speaker 2: it once was. But I don't think we should ever
Speaker 2: step away from being bold, and we should never step
Speaker 2: away from being experimental, and certainly never step away from
Speaker 2: being boring.
Speaker 1: Absolutely here here to that. Absolutely Can I bribe you
Speaker 1: at all to keep Wentworth on television? You know, we
Speaker 1: have talked about the last two seasons. It's promoted as
Speaker 1: the last two seasons. We've seen the first part of
Speaker 1: that and there's going to be this final series that
Speaker 1: will be happening in the back end of this year.
Speaker 1: Can I bribe you in any means, in any way
Speaker 1: to keep that show on television.
Speaker 3: I appreciate your devotion to the show.
Speaker 2: It's certainly computed that the history of Australian television. I'm
Speaker 2: proud of that Wentworth will be up there as one
Speaker 2: of the signature series that have come out of this country.
Speaker 2: I think it's played its last hard. I think it's
Speaker 2: best to go out on top. I think that we
Speaker 2: really explored so many stories that I'd like to tie
Speaker 2: a nice bow on the box and have other stories
Speaker 2: to tell. And it's my hope that Fox can continue
Speaker 2: to work with the creative team behind Wentworth on an
Speaker 2: exciting new drama out of Victoria. And we're certainly well
Speaker 2: advanced in those discussions. So you I'd like to convince
Speaker 2: you to transfer your love and devotion to something new
Speaker 2: that we'll have on screen soon.
Speaker 1: Oh. Absolutely, And then would be remissive me not to
Speaker 1: ask you this question, but Game of Thrones fans the
Speaker 1: anticipation for this upcoming prequel, House of the Dragon, has
Speaker 1: that been cemented in for Foxtail? Have you locked that show?
Speaker 1: Locked that show in?
Speaker 2: That's absolutely going to be, if not the most important
Speaker 2: launch of twenty twenty two, it will certainly be up there.
Speaker 2: But that's absolutely in our arsenal. We have a long
Speaker 2: term output arrangement with HBO and the Game of Thrones
Speaker 2: franchise and House of Dragon. As this prequel will be known,
Speaker 2: we'll absolutely spearhead our program offering for twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: Well, people are very excited about that. You know, another
Speaker 1: show that is so a part of Foxtel and has
Speaker 1: been kicking on now. I think it's on its like
Speaker 1: thirteenth series is goggle Box, which you've been very instrumental
Speaker 1: with working on that show the whole way through. Did
Speaker 1: you expect that show to be as popular as it is?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't, to be honest.
Speaker 2: In fact, when I was attending mip in Khan, the
Speaker 2: show had been on an air in the UK, I
Speaker 2: think it was about two years and the commercial networks
Speaker 2: here all took a look at it. But won't surprise
Speaker 2: you Ben that their view was, well, why would we
Speaker 2: commission a show where we were going to include content
Speaker 2: from our opposition?
Speaker 3: Kind of When I got that sense from being at
Speaker 3: the market.
Speaker 2: I thought, well, you know what, seven nine to ten
Speaker 2: might not do this show because they don't want to
Speaker 2: promote shows from another network, But I think this is
Speaker 2: the kind of show that we'll get a lot of
Speaker 2: talk ability in Australia because it felt to me like
Speaker 2: it was a show that very much played down the middle.
Speaker 3: You could reflect.
Speaker 2: We talked before in this podcast about the changing face
Speaker 2: of Australia and diversity on screen. I knew that in
Speaker 2: casting goggle Box, we could very quickly, I think, show
Speaker 2: what contemporary Australian family life or home life is life
Speaker 2: and have some fun at doing it, and you know,
Speaker 2: because where Foxtel, we can take some license and we
Speaker 2: can go hard and we can be controversial, and the
Speaker 2: networks aren't going to really worry that we're lifting content
Speaker 2: from them because you know, we are not in one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of harms. And so for me, it was
Speaker 2: a gamble. I thought of we'd maybe get two or
Speaker 2: three seasons out of it. I had no idea that
Speaker 2: it would run this long. And it's been an incredible
Speaker 2: success story for us. And as you know, we on
Speaker 2: sell the show to ten and it's one of their
Speaker 2: top rating shows every week. And I think Shane, who
Speaker 2: produced the show for us, are a David McDonald who's
Speaker 2: an extraordinary producer. You know, I think they get it
Speaker 2: just right. It's a show that we spend a lot
Speaker 2: of time on because of casting and crafting each week,
Speaker 2: and the selection of shows that the families look at
Speaker 2: is really carefully considered. For me, the segments at work
Speaker 2: most effectively are those that really encourage a debate in
Speaker 2: the household, and that would be a compelling documentary, or
Speaker 2: a news and current affairs show, or a great movie
Speaker 2: that people can reminisce with it's got such an authenticity
Speaker 2: about it, goggle Box, and I'm happy to share with you.
Speaker 2: We haven't announced it, but I'm happy to share with
Speaker 2: you that we will be doing a celebrity edition of
Speaker 2: goggle Box in an upcoming season and we're having a
Speaker 2: lot of fun pasting that.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, everyone's been talking about it, but there's the
Speaker 1: official confirmation while we talk about that. I think Anthony
Speaker 1: Clear and Tim Campbell would be very good on that show.
Speaker 1: I don't know those boys personally, but I watched them
Speaker 1: doing that mimicking stuff and I just think that they'd
Speaker 1: be great.
Speaker 2: I think there's a great formatt in the lips and
Speaker 2: I've told them that. And yes, Anthony and Tim are
Speaker 2: absolutely on our wide card the celebrity Gogglebots.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about goggle Box as well as
Speaker 1: we've seen faces popular face on that show come and go,
Speaker 1: do you yourself get attached the families? And is there
Speaker 1: a family that or a household that you now miss
Speaker 1: that's gone?
Speaker 2: No, because I think that I think it's healthy for
Speaker 2: the show to always review the households. And you know, look,
Speaker 2: it's a big imposition on them, to be frank, it's
Speaker 2: a lot of time that they have to devote to
Speaker 2: watching television and reviewing television, and I think it's like
Speaker 2: any great ensemble piece bend you know, you can interchange,
Speaker 2: and so do we miss.
Speaker 3: I mean, of.
Speaker 2: Course there are people who have a deep affection for
Speaker 2: the Goggle Bops, but it's.
Speaker 3: A big country. There are a lot of people who
Speaker 3: love watching television.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any shortage of opportunities to cast
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 3: Moving into the future.
Speaker 2: I think when you look at the makeup of the
Speaker 2: current households of Goggle Bops, I think it's a very
Speaker 2: interesting and reflection of Australia in twenty twenty one. I
Speaker 2: don't see the show in any way waning just goes
Speaker 2: from strength to strength. I had Shine in the office
Speaker 2: here yesterday. We were talking about it and you asked me, Am,
Speaker 2: I surprise. They are more surprised. I mean, here's a
Speaker 2: show that lasted one season in the United States. It
Speaker 2: was called The People's Couch and it was on Bravo
Speaker 2: and it just failed dismally. So it's fantastic that here
Speaker 2: we are fourteen seasons in and it's still as strong
Speaker 2: as ever. I think there's something in the fact that
Speaker 2: we don't run it four nights a week, forty weeks
Speaker 2: of a year.
Speaker 1: How do you respond to rumors about foxtowl? I know
Speaker 1: that you like to keep up with the industry gossip
Speaker 1: and you keep your finger on the pulse. But when
Speaker 1: you hear something that's completely off tap, you know, how
Speaker 1: do you deal with that? Do you just ignore it
Speaker 1: or do you try and respond to it in the public.
Speaker 2: Being an ex publicist, I always believe in having open
Speaker 2: conversations with press and with journalists, and I always engage
Speaker 2: with journos. I always take their calls. If I can't
Speaker 2: answer something honestly, I'll say I can't answer the quest uestion,
Speaker 2: or I can't address the question. If they report something
Speaker 2: that's inaccurate or false about Foxtell, I'm the first person
Speaker 2: to defend the organization, and I you know, there are
Speaker 2: all sorts of the years that people have about our business,
Speaker 2: and it's not just out but every business. I don't
Speaker 2: think that ignoring a question from a journalist serves in
Speaker 2: the organization. Journalists are there to do a job, and
Speaker 2: you should answer a question honestly. You should and if
Speaker 2: you can't answer the question, you should say you can't
Speaker 2: answer the question.
Speaker 1: Having an opening conversation is a sign of intelligence.
Speaker 3: I think yeah.
Speaker 2: As I say, I think being in PR for as
Speaker 2: long as I was, you've got to have a respectful
Speaker 2: relationship with the journals, and you've got to have a
Speaker 2: respectful relationship with your competitors. And we've talked podcast about
Speaker 2: my mentors, and I identified John Brennan and Sam Chisholm
Speaker 2: and amongst them. But Sam was always full of great
Speaker 2: one liners and I learned so much from him, particularly
Speaker 2: at Sky. But one of his most famous lines Ben
Speaker 2: was compete by day, dying by night, and I've always
Speaker 2: taken that on board and I think that's a very
Speaker 2: healthy position to have. And I'm very happy to say
Speaker 2: that in this industry. I have very strong cordial relations
Speaker 2: with all of the players in Australian television and whether
Speaker 2: they be in Free TV or our colleagues at STAN
Speaker 2: or Amazon or Netflix. Yes, we inverted commas compete by day,
Speaker 2: but we also get together socially, and I think that's
Speaker 2: important for the health of the industry because at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, we're all doing our job to
Speaker 2: entertain Australians, in form Australians, and the best thing we
Speaker 2: can do is the best job we can do for
Speaker 2: our respective organizations. And I think if we all do that,
Speaker 2: the win it will be the consumer.
Speaker 1: What's a funny story? And this is something I ask everybody,
Speaker 1: but what's a funny story that you can tell from
Speaker 1: behind this scenes of Foxtel over the years? You know
Speaker 1: something when someone goes, oh, what do you do for work?
Speaker 1: And you'll tell them what you do. Is there something
Speaker 1: that you've been privy to a bit of a funny story,
Speaker 1: bit of a funny anecdote I guess from working at
Speaker 1: Foxtel over the years.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the one that got away.
Speaker 2: During our very first few years, we had a half
Speaker 2: hour magazine show called in Fashion and Series one was
Speaker 2: hosted by Hugh Jackman and Melissa Foyer. But what is
Speaker 2: a little known fact is that the guy who replaced
Speaker 2: him as the co host was Keith Ledger. He did
Speaker 2: four episodes of the show and he phoned me up
Speaker 2: and asked to come to see me.
Speaker 3: And he came to my.
Speaker 2: Office at Foxtel we were then based down at Darling
Speaker 2: Harbor in Sydney, and said to me, I've just been
Speaker 2: offered a movie from Disney and I'd like to take it,
Speaker 2: but I've got this twelve month contract with you, and
Speaker 2: I'm hoping you'll let me out of the contract. And
Speaker 2: how can you turn around to a young Australian kid
Speaker 2: who has been given an opportunity to go to Hollywood?
Speaker 2: And so I spoke with his manager and said that
Speaker 2: Heath wants to stop doing in fashion and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to stand it his way, so I'm happy to
Speaker 2: let him go. He went to LA and did there's
Speaker 2: the ten things I knew about you?
Speaker 1: I know what ten things I hate about you?
Speaker 3: Yep, Yeah, And there you go.
Speaker 2: And I've still got as we're sitting here doing this podcast,
Speaker 2: I've got a rack of TV shows, great TV moments
Speaker 2: and Foxtail's twenty five years and amongst them is in
Speaker 2: Fashion with Hugh Jackman, in Fashion with Heath Ledger. And
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people know that. You know,
Speaker 2: in the archives of Foxtel, amongst everything here, you know
Speaker 2: Beauty and the Beast, Australia's Next Top Model, Project, Runway
Speaker 2: with Chrissy Hines, you name it. Are sitting these this
Speaker 2: little magazine show about fashion with a News Corp journalist
Speaker 2: in the SA Joya and her co host being two
Speaker 2: of the greatest male stars able to come out of
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: Our biggest exports. Had you said to him, no, you've
Speaker 1: got to finish this show, we may never have been
Speaker 1: able to appreciate all that Heath Ledger was.
Speaker 2: There is funny moments, right, I mean, I'm sure every
Speaker 2: network in the world has stories like them.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one though. The one that got
Speaker 1: away Heath Ledger absolutely amazing. I just want to say
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking the time to have
Speaker 1: this chat. I commend you for always looking for original content.
Speaker 1: I feel confident that you will continue to bring us
Speaker 1: some original content here in Australia and we can all
Speaker 1: be reflected on screen, which I think is really powerful.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being able to join
Speaker 1: us today.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Ben, I really enjoyed the chat.