Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday,
Speaker 2: the thirty first of October.
Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.
Speaker 2: Over the last few months, you've likely seen headlines that
Speaker 2: referred to a high profile man who had been charged
Speaker 2: with rape in the Queensland city of Towoomba. We are
Speaker 2: limited with what we can tell you now. Well, we
Speaker 2: can tell you what he is accused of. I can't
Speaker 2: tell you who he is.
Speaker 3: Our high profile man accused of two counts of rape
Speaker 3: will keep his identity hidden. Late last week, that man
Speaker 3: was publicly named for the first time, former political staffer
Speaker 3: Bruce Lherman, who had previously been accused of rape by
Speaker 3: fellow political staff are Britney Higgins in January of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one. Lehman has always denied those allegations and hasn't
Speaker 3: entered plea in the Tomber case.
Speaker 2: As you can tell from that little snippet. This deep
Speaker 2: dive will be discussing the themes of sexual assault and rape.
Speaker 2: So if you're not in the headspace to listen to
Speaker 2: today's podcast, we will be back with you again tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into it, though, Sam, let's get into
Speaker 2: the headlines.
Speaker 3: Rental vacancy in Australia has hit a historic low. That's
Speaker 3: the percentage of rental properties that are available on the
Speaker 3: market but untenanted. The prop track coarterly rental report shows
Speaker 3: that the vacancy rate is down to one point one percent.
Speaker 3: The lowest rates were found in Adelaide, Regional South Australia
Speaker 3: and Perth.
Speaker 2: Parts of the Western Downs in Queensland are still under
Speaker 2: emergency bushfire warnings. Lucky Road in Tara is still under
Speaker 2: a leave immediately warning. That's at the time of recording.
Speaker 2: Over forty homes across the Western Downs have been destroyed
Speaker 2: in the bushfires.
Speaker 3: In Brazil, twelve people have died in a plane crash.
Speaker 3: This is the second plane crash in the country in
Speaker 3: less than two months. The small plane crash just after
Speaker 3: take off in Rkri, a state in Brazil's west.
Speaker 2: And the good news this one feels like you need
Speaker 2: to watch it for it to make sense, but a
Speaker 2: kitten was saved after being caught in a car's dashboard.
Speaker 2: I watched a video as they undid the dashboard in
Speaker 2: what will be a very expensive endeavor for the car.
Speaker 3: There's nothing better than the podcast that tells you to
Speaker 3: go watch a video.
Speaker 2: Well, Fire and Rescue New South Wales posted the video
Speaker 2: if you want to go watch it. They did say
Speaker 2: that the cat was unharmed after it was trapped there
Speaker 2: for two hours.
Speaker 3: That's good. We need some good news, Zara. It's good
Speaker 3: to be back on the podcast after quickly popping over
Speaker 3: to Washington, DC last week to hang out at the
Speaker 3: White House and see who would talk to the Daily Os.
Speaker 2: It was our best month of podcast ever and in
Speaker 2: terms of how many listeners only month that we haven't
Speaker 2: been on the podcast.
Speaker 3: That's fine. We'll just move on from the two years
Speaker 3: we've been doing it every day, and.
Speaker 2: So thank you to our amazing team who have filled
Speaker 2: in for both of us as we both took some
Speaker 2: time away and have created an excellent.
Speaker 3: Product totally and whiles away there were a couple of
Speaker 3: really big stories across the Australian newspapers. I'm still catching
Speaker 3: up and I want to talk about why Bruce Lehman,
Speaker 3: the man accused of raping Britney Higgins in Canberra and
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, is back in the news for a
Speaker 3: different case. Can you talk me through the big headline here?
Speaker 2: So at about five pm on Thursday afternoon, we found
Speaker 2: out that Bruce Lehman could now be named as the
Speaker 2: quote high profile man that was charged with rape into
Speaker 2: Woomba earlier this year.
Speaker 4: Finally the veil of secrecy is shatty.
Speaker 3: We have some breaking news now.
Speaker 2: A high profile man accused of rape, who has fought
Speaker 2: to keep his identity a secret, can finally be exposed tonight.
Speaker 4: For the first time, we can tell you Bruce Lahman
Speaker 4: is the high profile to Wombaman facing more allegations of rape.
Speaker 2: But I think in the first place, we need to
Speaker 2: reintroduce who Bruce Loman is and why you might be
Speaker 2: familiar with his name. So in February twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: a political staffer who worked for the Liberal Party at
Speaker 2: that time, her name was Britney Higgins. She publicly alleged
Speaker 2: that she had been raped two years earlier by another
Speaker 2: staffer who was at that point unnamed, and she alleged
Speaker 2: that this happened in the office of Linda Reynolds, who
Speaker 2: was then the Defense Minister. The fallout from that allegation
Speaker 2: was huge. We cannot overstate the ripple effect that it
Speaker 2: had across the country.
Speaker 4: An alleged rape inside the People's House has sparked a
Speaker 4: political scandal.
Speaker 3: An explosive allegation that throws the spotlight once again on
Speaker 3: the culture inside Parliament House.
Speaker 4: Prime Minister's response is also in question after miss Higgins
Speaker 4: accused him of victim blaming.
Speaker 2: Britney Higgins' story has prompted an outpouring of anger about
Speaker 2: the treatment of women and demands the chain.
Speaker 4: It's a message heard loud and clear from the women
Speaker 4: on Parliament lawns to the men in the building.
Speaker 3: Enough is enough.
Speaker 2: Then, in August of twenty twenty one, Bruce Lehmon was
Speaker 2: named as the person who Higgins alleged had raped her
Speaker 2: and the case went to trial. It's very important to
Speaker 2: note here that Lehman pleaded not guilty at that time
Speaker 2: and to this day, he maintains his innocence. So then
Speaker 2: we fast forward to last year twenty twenty two, when
Speaker 2: a trial in the Act failed that was due to
Speaker 2: dura misconduct. I remember we spoke about that at length
Speaker 2: on this podcast, and then a retrial was abandoned, and
Speaker 2: you know, there have been a number of investigations as
Speaker 2: to how and what happened there, And so that was
Speaker 2: where the story of Bruce Lehman left us until this year.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that brings us up to speed in terms
Speaker 3: of the contexts in which we came to know Bruce
Speaker 3: Lemon's name in the news. Then how does that connect
Speaker 3: to this other story that was bubbling along over the
Speaker 3: last six months or so of a high profile man
Speaker 3: in Womba.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in January of this year you would have
Speaker 2: started to see headlines referring to someone charged with rape
Speaker 2: who couldn't be named. The alleged rape was said to
Speaker 2: have taken place in October twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: Typically, when someone is accused of rape, we're pretty quick
Speaker 3: in the media to know about it an allegation is
Speaker 3: made public. Why weren't we given the identity of the
Speaker 3: man in this case.
Speaker 2: Well, I will just clarify there was a time where
Speaker 2: we did know who it was. So on the day
Speaker 2: that Bruce Lehman first appeared in court into Woomba, that
Speaker 2: court actually published its courtless right and his name was
Speaker 2: on it. That was very quickly taken offline. And then
Speaker 2: from that point on, I think it's safe to say
Speaker 2: a lot of people in media knew who it was, right,
Speaker 2: but no one was allowed to print the name of
Speaker 2: Bruce Lehman.
Speaker 3: Why weren't we allowed to print them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So that well, I mean there are two reasons.
Speaker 2: So the first reason we weren't allowed to go to
Speaker 2: a Queensland law, and that was a law that was
Speaker 2: in place that prevented people accused with rape and other
Speaker 2: certain sexual offenses from being named until they were officially
Speaker 2: committed to stand trial. So like in the process of
Speaker 2: the kind of judicial system, it was that charges had
Speaker 2: been laid, but he hadn't been committed to stand trial,
Speaker 2: and therefore under Queensland law, the media was not allowed
Speaker 2: to report his name. These laws were partly based, at
Speaker 2: least according to Queensland's Attorney General, Yvette dath On quote,
Speaker 2: the false assumption that women maliciously make up complaints to
Speaker 2: damage reputations. I mean, I think it's pretty clear from
Speaker 2: that quote that the Queensland government did end up changing
Speaker 2: those laws.
Speaker 3: So take me through the process the Queensland government went
Speaker 3: through to actually make the change.
Speaker 2: Yes, So Queensland's government started the process to change the
Speaker 2: law in May of this year so that people accused
Speaker 2: of rape could be named, and that was based on
Speaker 2: a recommendation from the States Women's Safety and Justice Task Force.
Speaker 2: The change was supported by both the government and the opposition,
Speaker 2: so it's bipartisan, it was, But that doesn't entirely because
Speaker 2: in Queensland they can pass laws through the singular house
Speaker 2: with a majority. But still significant to add there. And
Speaker 2: the change in the law that was implemented meant that
Speaker 2: people officially alleged to have committed a sexual offense could
Speaker 2: be publicly named when they were charged in the same
Speaker 2: way as any other.
Speaker 3: Alleged robbed a bank in the same would apply.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So once the law passed Queensland Parliament a date
Speaker 2: was set on the third of October anyone previously charged
Speaker 2: with sexual assault in the state who had not yet
Speaker 2: gone to trial could be identified.
Speaker 3: But then it was only a couple of weeks after
Speaker 3: the third of October that Bruce Lherman's name was revealed.
Speaker 3: Why was there a delay and why didn't we find
Speaker 3: out on the third of October.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then this is the other element of why
Speaker 2: the media hasn't been able to report. So again, just
Speaker 2: to reiterate, the first was that Queensland's law restricted the
Speaker 2: media's ability to report on it, and if we had
Speaker 2: there would have been consequences once that was overturned. There
Speaker 2: was a second reason, and that was because in the
Speaker 2: law or that changed, it allowed the accused to apply
Speaker 2: if they did not want their name to be published,
Speaker 2: and it would follow that after the lord did change,
Speaker 2: Bruce Lehman launched an application to do just that.
Speaker 3: According to Bruce Lehman, what was the reason that he
Speaker 3: gave in terms of why he didn't want his name
Speaker 3: out there?
Speaker 2: So his lawyers tried to get his name suppressed for
Speaker 2: two main reasons. The first was mental health.
Speaker 3: Grounds his mental health correct.
Speaker 2: And the second was based on his public profile and
Speaker 2: so on. The first, they argued that publishing his name
Speaker 2: would harm his already fragile mental health and that it
Speaker 2: would pose a suicide risk due to a likely media
Speaker 2: frenzy that would ensue while they were making this case,
Speaker 2: a psychologist who had seen Leerman professionally in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one and twenty twenty two testified to his quote depressed
Speaker 2: mood and suicidal ideation, and that psychologist agreed that allowing
Speaker 2: his name to be published would worsen his mental health state.
Speaker 2: And then the other reason was that he was already
Speaker 2: so well known from the case that involves Britney Higgins,
Speaker 2: the prosecution as well as several major media outlets, so
Speaker 2: it was actually really interesting. There was basically every single
Speaker 2: major media outlet in the country bar one, that was
Speaker 2: arguing that Lherman's name should be able to be published.
Speaker 2: The point that was being argued on the other side
Speaker 2: was that Lehman had stopped formally seeking psychological help and
Speaker 2: that he wasn't seeking help at this current time, and
Speaker 2: therefore this argument around mental health perhaps didn't stack up.
Speaker 2: They also argued that his decision in twenty twenty three
Speaker 2: to conduct what can only be called a major media interview.
Speaker 3: With Channel seven right erect Spotlight.
Speaker 2: And his decision to commence several defamation proceedings relating to
Speaker 2: Higgins's allegations. They argued that those actions were incompatible with
Speaker 2: the suggestion that publicity could be harmful to his mental health.
Speaker 3: Because those things were keeping his name in the headline.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they were suggesting that he was contry tributing
Speaker 2: to perhaps his own personal profile growing by doing those things.
Speaker 3: And so those arguments were all presented in court. Then
Speaker 3: what happened after.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, So the magistrate agreed with the media routlets
Speaker 2: and the prosecution that it was in the public interest
Speaker 2: at this point to name Lherman and that his decision
Speaker 2: not to seek continued professional help and to actively pursue
Speaker 2: media publicity contradicted his lawyer's arguments. The magistrate blocked Lherman's
Speaker 2: lawyer's bid to keep his name private. But then his
Speaker 2: lawyer's appealed to the Supreme Court of Queensland and that
Speaker 2: brings us up to last week.
Speaker 3: And so that's how these appeals work, is that the
Speaker 3: kind of status quos stays until the appeal is heard.
Speaker 3: What happened when the appeal was heard in the Supreme Court.
Speaker 2: So that was when this news broke. So in a
Speaker 2: judgment handed down last week, Justice Peter Applegarth noted his
Speaker 2: task was just basically to decide whether the magistrate had
Speaker 2: made a reasonable decision, not necessarily whether he agreed with
Speaker 2: the decision itself. Essentially, he determined it was a reasonable
Speaker 2: decision to allow the publication of Bruce Lehman's name and
Speaker 2: that he could be identified as this high profile man
Speaker 2: accused of rape into Woomba. So essentially, the second that
Speaker 2: judgment was handed down, those news outlets who had fought
Speaker 2: to name Lehman hit published, and all at once, we
Speaker 2: were just bombarded by these push notifications of outlet after
Speaker 2: outlet after outlet naming him.
Speaker 3: It's always really interesting when these kind of legal processes
Speaker 3: and principles interact with the way that the news is reported.
Speaker 3: But now the name is out there, but the case
Speaker 3: is still yet to be heard. What happens from here.
Speaker 2: So the legal proceedings will continue. There's still quite a
Speaker 2: bit that needs to be settled before the magistrate decides
Speaker 2: if the case will proceed to trial, because remember that
Speaker 2: we're not even at that stage, and it may not.
Speaker 2: That's up to the magistrate to decide, as we explained.
Speaker 3: Earlier, So we're not even at the stage where we
Speaker 3: can figure out whether Bruce Lehmon denied the claims on
Speaker 3: that right.
Speaker 2: So he hasn't in court had to enter a plea yet, right. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's also other legal action that might bring Bruce Lehman
Speaker 2: back into the new cycles separate to this. That's again
Speaker 2: relating to Britney Higgins's allegations, so we are likely to
Speaker 2: hear quite a bit about him. And I think i'd
Speaker 2: finished just on a note of if anyone has been
Speaker 2: seeing our coverage of Bruce Lehman and the allegations against
Speaker 2: him on Instagram and have noticed that we turned off
Speaker 2: comments and the explanation given was due to an ongoing
Speaker 2: defamation risk, you know, like we saw with the Britney
Speaker 2: Higgins case. There is going to be huge media attention
Speaker 2: on this case and comments, sections and comments that are
Speaker 2: made online can serve to prejudice a jury. So I
Speaker 2: think you'll notice a lot of outlets turning off their
Speaker 2: comments in order to allow justice to kind of work
Speaker 2: as it does without social media getting in the way
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 3: And this decision in the Supreme Court does change things
Speaker 3: for us as well. It means that we can cover
Speaker 3: the story orbit without comments on and so we will
Speaker 3: definitely keep everyone updated on this and to note that
Speaker 3: if this has brought up anything for you, you can
Speaker 3: call one eight hundred respect twenty four to seven. That's
Speaker 3: one eight hundred seven three to seven three seven.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Daily Os.
Speaker 2: We've loved reading your beautiful reviews on Apple Podcasts. My
Speaker 2: mum told me that she now understands how to leave
Speaker 2: me a five star reviews, so that's good news. It
Speaker 2: only took a couple of years. If you'd like to
Speaker 2: join my mum and several others who have left lovely comments,
Speaker 2: please do so. It means that you know other people
Speaker 2: can hear about this podcast and learn about it, and
Speaker 2: that means the world to us. Have a great date.
Speaker 3: Bye,