WEBVTT - Why Bruce Lehrmann couldn’t be named until now

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the thirty first of October.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the last few months, you've likely seen headlines that

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<v Speaker 2>referred to a high profile man who had been charged

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<v Speaker 2>with rape in the Queensland city of Towoomba. We are

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<v Speaker 2>limited with what we can tell you now. Well, we

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<v Speaker 2>can tell you what he is accused of. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>tell you who he is.

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<v Speaker 3>Our high profile man accused of two counts of rape

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<v Speaker 3>will keep his identity hidden. Late last week, that man

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<v Speaker 3>was publicly named for the first time, former political staffer

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<v Speaker 3>Bruce Lherman, who had previously been accused of rape by

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<v Speaker 3>fellow political staff are Britney Higgins in January of twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty one. Lehman has always denied those allegations and hasn't

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<v Speaker 3>entered plea in the Tomber case.

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<v Speaker 2>As you can tell from that little snippet. This deep

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<v Speaker 2>dive will be discussing the themes of sexual assault and rape.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you're not in the headspace to listen to

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<v Speaker 2>today's podcast, we will be back with you again tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we jump into it, though, Sam, let's get into

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<v Speaker 2>the headlines.

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<v Speaker 3>Rental vacancy in Australia has hit a historic low. That's

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<v Speaker 3>the percentage of rental properties that are available on the

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<v Speaker 3>market but untenanted. The prop track coarterly rental report shows

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<v Speaker 3>that the vacancy rate is down to one point one percent.

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<v Speaker 3>The lowest rates were found in Adelaide, Regional South Australia

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<v Speaker 3>and Perth.

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<v Speaker 2>Parts of the Western Downs in Queensland are still under

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<v Speaker 2>emergency bushfire warnings. Lucky Road in Tara is still under

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<v Speaker 2>a leave immediately warning. That's at the time of recording.

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<v Speaker 2>Over forty homes across the Western Downs have been destroyed

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<v Speaker 2>in the bushfires.

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<v Speaker 3>In Brazil, twelve people have died in a plane crash.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the second plane crash in the country in

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<v Speaker 3>less than two months. The small plane crash just after

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<v Speaker 3>take off in Rkri, a state in Brazil's west.

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<v Speaker 2>And the good news this one feels like you need

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<v Speaker 2>to watch it for it to make sense, but a

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<v Speaker 2>kitten was saved after being caught in a car's dashboard.

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<v Speaker 2>I watched a video as they undid the dashboard in

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<v Speaker 2>what will be a very expensive endeavor for the car.

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<v Speaker 3>There's nothing better than the podcast that tells you to

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<v Speaker 3>go watch a video.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Fire and Rescue New South Wales posted the video

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to go watch it. They did say

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<v Speaker 2>that the cat was unharmed after it was trapped there

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<v Speaker 2>for two hours.

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<v Speaker 3>That's good. We need some good news, Zara. It's good

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<v Speaker 3>to be back on the podcast after quickly popping over

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<v Speaker 3>to Washington, DC last week to hang out at the

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<v Speaker 3>White House and see who would talk to the Daily Os.

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<v Speaker 2>It was our best month of podcast ever and in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of how many listeners only month that we haven't

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<v Speaker 2>been on the podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>That's fine. We'll just move on from the two years

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<v Speaker 3>we've been doing it every day, and.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you to our amazing team who have filled

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<v Speaker 2>in for both of us as we both took some

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<v Speaker 2>time away and have created an excellent.

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<v Speaker 3>Product totally and whiles away there were a couple of

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<v Speaker 3>really big stories across the Australian newspapers. I'm still catching

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<v Speaker 3>up and I want to talk about why Bruce Lehman,

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<v Speaker 3>the man accused of raping Britney Higgins in Canberra and

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty one, is back in the news for a

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<v Speaker 3>different case. Can you talk me through the big headline here?

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<v Speaker 2>So at about five pm on Thursday afternoon, we found

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<v Speaker 2>out that Bruce Lehman could now be named as the

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<v Speaker 2>quote high profile man that was charged with rape into

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<v Speaker 2>Woomba earlier this year.

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<v Speaker 4>Finally the veil of secrecy is shatty.

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<v Speaker 3>We have some breaking news now.

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<v Speaker 2>A high profile man accused of rape, who has fought

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<v Speaker 2>to keep his identity a secret, can finally be exposed tonight.

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<v Speaker 4>For the first time, we can tell you Bruce Lahman

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<v Speaker 4>is the high profile to Wombaman facing more allegations of rape.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think in the first place, we need to

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<v Speaker 2>reintroduce who Bruce Loman is and why you might be

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with his name. So in February twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 2>a political staffer who worked for the Liberal Party at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, her name was Britney Higgins. She publicly alleged

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<v Speaker 2>that she had been raped two years earlier by another

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<v Speaker 2>staffer who was at that point unnamed, and she alleged

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<v Speaker 2>that this happened in the office of Linda Reynolds, who

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<v Speaker 2>was then the Defense Minister. The fallout from that allegation

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<v Speaker 2>was huge. We cannot overstate the ripple effect that it

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<v Speaker 2>had across the country.

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<v Speaker 4>An alleged rape inside the People's House has sparked a

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<v Speaker 4>political scandal.

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<v Speaker 3>An explosive allegation that throws the spotlight once again on

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<v Speaker 3>the culture inside Parliament House.

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<v Speaker 4>Prime Minister's response is also in question after miss Higgins

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<v Speaker 4>accused him of victim blaming.

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<v Speaker 2>Britney Higgins' story has prompted an outpouring of anger about

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<v Speaker 2>the treatment of women and demands the chain.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a message heard loud and clear from the women

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<v Speaker 4>on Parliament lawns to the men in the building.

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<v Speaker 3>Enough is enough.

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<v Speaker 2>Then, in August of twenty twenty one, Bruce Lehmon was

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<v Speaker 2>named as the person who Higgins alleged had raped her

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<v Speaker 2>and the case went to trial. It's very important to

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<v Speaker 2>note here that Lehman pleaded not guilty at that time

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<v Speaker 2>and to this day, he maintains his innocence. So then

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<v Speaker 2>we fast forward to last year twenty twenty two, when

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<v Speaker 2>a trial in the Act failed that was due to

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<v Speaker 2>dura misconduct. I remember we spoke about that at length

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<v Speaker 2>on this podcast, and then a retrial was abandoned, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there have been a number of investigations as

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<v Speaker 2>to how and what happened there, And so that was

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<v Speaker 2>where the story of Bruce Lehman left us until this year.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So that brings us up to speed in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of the contexts in which we came to know Bruce

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<v Speaker 3>Lemon's name in the news. Then how does that connect

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<v Speaker 3>to this other story that was bubbling along over the

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<v Speaker 3>last six months or so of a high profile man

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<v Speaker 3>in Womba.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so in January of this year you would have

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<v Speaker 2>started to see headlines referring to someone charged with rape

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<v Speaker 2>who couldn't be named. The alleged rape was said to

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<v Speaker 2>have taken place in October twenty twenty one.

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<v Speaker 3>Typically, when someone is accused of rape, we're pretty quick

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<v Speaker 3>in the media to know about it an allegation is

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<v Speaker 3>made public. Why weren't we given the identity of the

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<v Speaker 3>man in this case.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I will just clarify there was a time where

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<v Speaker 2>we did know who it was. So on the day

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<v Speaker 2>that Bruce Lehman first appeared in court into Woomba, that

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<v Speaker 2>court actually published its courtless right and his name was

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<v Speaker 2>on it. That was very quickly taken offline. And then

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<v Speaker 2>from that point on, I think it's safe to say

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people in media knew who it was, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but no one was allowed to print the name of

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<v Speaker 2>Bruce Lehman.

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<v Speaker 3>Why weren't we allowed to print them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So that well, I mean there are two reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>So the first reason we weren't allowed to go to

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<v Speaker 2>a Queensland law, and that was a law that was

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<v Speaker 2>in place that prevented people accused with rape and other

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<v Speaker 2>certain sexual offenses from being named until they were officially

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<v Speaker 2>committed to stand trial. So like in the process of

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of judicial system, it was that charges had

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<v Speaker 2>been laid, but he hadn't been committed to stand trial,

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<v Speaker 2>and therefore under Queensland law, the media was not allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to report his name. These laws were partly based, at

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<v Speaker 2>least according to Queensland's Attorney General, Yvette dath On quote,

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<v Speaker 2>the false assumption that women maliciously make up complaints to

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<v Speaker 2>damage reputations. I mean, I think it's pretty clear from

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<v Speaker 2>that quote that the Queensland government did end up changing

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<v Speaker 2>those laws.

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<v Speaker 3>So take me through the process the Queensland government went

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<v Speaker 3>through to actually make the change.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So Queensland's government started the process to change the

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<v Speaker 2>law in May of this year so that people accused

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<v Speaker 2>of rape could be named, and that was based on

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<v Speaker 2>a recommendation from the States Women's Safety and Justice Task Force.

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<v Speaker 2>The change was supported by both the government and the opposition,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's bipartisan, it was, But that doesn't entirely because

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<v Speaker 2>in Queensland they can pass laws through the singular house

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<v Speaker 2>with a majority. But still significant to add there. And

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<v Speaker 2>the change in the law that was implemented meant that

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<v Speaker 2>people officially alleged to have committed a sexual offense could

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<v Speaker 2>be publicly named when they were charged in the same

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<v Speaker 2>way as any other.

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<v Speaker 3>Alleged robbed a bank in the same would apply.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So once the law passed Queensland Parliament a date

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<v Speaker 2>was set on the third of October anyone previously charged

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<v Speaker 2>with sexual assault in the state who had not yet

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<v Speaker 2>gone to trial could be identified.

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<v Speaker 3>But then it was only a couple of weeks after

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<v Speaker 3>the third of October that Bruce Lherman's name was revealed.

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<v Speaker 3>Why was there a delay and why didn't we find

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<v Speaker 3>out on the third of October.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So then this is the other element of why

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<v Speaker 2>the media hasn't been able to report. So again, just

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<v Speaker 2>to reiterate, the first was that Queensland's law restricted the

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<v Speaker 2>media's ability to report on it, and if we had

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<v Speaker 2>there would have been consequences once that was overturned. There

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<v Speaker 2>was a second reason, and that was because in the

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<v Speaker 2>law or that changed, it allowed the accused to apply

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<v Speaker 2>if they did not want their name to be published,

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<v Speaker 2>and it would follow that after the lord did change,

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<v Speaker 2>Bruce Lehman launched an application to do just that.

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<v Speaker 3>According to Bruce Lehman, what was the reason that he

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<v Speaker 3>gave in terms of why he didn't want his name

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<v Speaker 3>out there?

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<v Speaker 2>So his lawyers tried to get his name suppressed for

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<v Speaker 2>two main reasons. The first was mental health.

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<v Speaker 3>Grounds his mental health correct.

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<v Speaker 2>And the second was based on his public profile and

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<v Speaker 2>so on. The first, they argued that publishing his name

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<v Speaker 2>would harm his already fragile mental health and that it

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<v Speaker 2>would pose a suicide risk due to a likely media

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<v Speaker 2>frenzy that would ensue while they were making this case,

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<v Speaker 2>a psychologist who had seen Leerman professionally in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>one and twenty twenty two testified to his quote depressed

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<v Speaker 2>mood and suicidal ideation, and that psychologist agreed that allowing

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<v Speaker 2>his name to be published would worsen his mental health state.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the other reason was that he was already

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<v Speaker 2>so well known from the case that involves Britney Higgins,

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution as well as several major media outlets, so

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<v Speaker 2>it was actually really interesting. There was basically every single

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<v Speaker 2>major media outlet in the country bar one, that was

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<v Speaker 2>arguing that Lherman's name should be able to be published.

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<v Speaker 2>The point that was being argued on the other side

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<v Speaker 2>was that Lehman had stopped formally seeking psychological help and

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<v Speaker 2>that he wasn't seeking help at this current time, and

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<v Speaker 2>therefore this argument around mental health perhaps didn't stack up.

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<v Speaker 2>They also argued that his decision in twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 2>to conduct what can only be called a major media interview.

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<v Speaker 3>With Channel seven right erect Spotlight.

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<v Speaker 2>And his decision to commence several defamation proceedings relating to

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<v Speaker 2>Higgins's allegations. They argued that those actions were incompatible with

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<v Speaker 2>the suggestion that publicity could be harmful to his mental health.

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<v Speaker 3>Because those things were keeping his name in the headline.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, they were suggesting that he was contry tributing

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<v Speaker 2>to perhaps his own personal profile growing by doing those things.

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<v Speaker 3>And so those arguments were all presented in court. Then

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<v Speaker 3>what happened after.

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<v Speaker 2>That, Yeah, So the magistrate agreed with the media routlets

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<v Speaker 2>and the prosecution that it was in the public interest

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<v Speaker 2>at this point to name Lherman and that his decision

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<v Speaker 2>not to seek continued professional help and to actively pursue

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<v Speaker 2>media publicity contradicted his lawyer's arguments. The magistrate blocked Lherman's

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<v Speaker 2>lawyer's bid to keep his name private. But then his

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<v Speaker 2>lawyer's appealed to the Supreme Court of Queensland and that

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<v Speaker 2>brings us up to last week.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's how these appeals work, is that the

0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.640
<v Speaker 3>kind of status quos stays until the appeal is heard.

0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.480
<v Speaker 3>What happened when the appeal was heard in the Supreme Court.

0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.880
<v Speaker 2>So that was when this news broke. So in a

0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.320
<v Speaker 2>judgment handed down last week, Justice Peter Applegarth noted his

0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.520
<v Speaker 2>task was just basically to decide whether the magistrate had

0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.040
<v Speaker 2>made a reasonable decision, not necessarily whether he agreed with

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.439
<v Speaker 2>the decision itself. Essentially, he determined it was a reasonable

0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 2>decision to allow the publication of Bruce Lehman's name and

0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.120
<v Speaker 2>that he could be identified as this high profile man

0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 2>accused of rape into Woomba. So essentially, the second that

0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.240
<v Speaker 2>judgment was handed down, those news outlets who had fought

0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 2>to name Lehman hit published, and all at once, we

0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.040
<v Speaker 2>were just bombarded by these push notifications of outlet after

0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 2>outlet after outlet naming him.

0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.440
<v Speaker 3>It's always really interesting when these kind of legal processes

0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 3>and principles interact with the way that the news is reported.

0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 3>But now the name is out there, but the case

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.680
<v Speaker 3>is still yet to be heard. What happens from here.

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>So the legal proceedings will continue. There's still quite a

0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.760
<v Speaker 2>bit that needs to be settled before the magistrate decides

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.400
<v Speaker 2>if the case will proceed to trial, because remember that

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 2>we're not even at that stage, and it may not.

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.200
<v Speaker 2>That's up to the magistrate to decide, as we explained.

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.800
<v Speaker 3>Earlier, So we're not even at the stage where we

0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.680
<v Speaker 3>can figure out whether Bruce Lehmon denied the claims on

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:01.440
<v Speaker 3>that right.

0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>So he hasn't in court had to enter a plea yet, right. Okay,

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.440
<v Speaker 2>there's also other legal action that might bring Bruce Lehman

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>back into the new cycles separate to this. That's again

0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 2>relating to Britney Higgins's allegations, so we are likely to

0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>hear quite a bit about him. And I think i'd

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 2>finished just on a note of if anyone has been

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 2>seeing our coverage of Bruce Lehman and the allegations against

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.839
<v Speaker 2>him on Instagram and have noticed that we turned off

0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>comments and the explanation given was due to an ongoing

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 2>defamation risk, you know, like we saw with the Britney

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Higgins case. There is going to be huge media attention

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>on this case and comments, sections and comments that are

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.680
<v Speaker 2>made online can serve to prejudice a jury. So I

0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 2>think you'll notice a lot of outlets turning off their

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 2>comments in order to allow justice to kind of work

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.959
<v Speaker 2>as it does without social media getting in the way

0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 3>And this decision in the Supreme Court does change things

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.880
<v Speaker 3>for us as well. It means that we can cover

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 3>the story orbit without comments on and so we will

0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 3>definitely keep everyone updated on this and to note that

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 3>if this has brought up anything for you, you can

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.839
<v Speaker 3>call one eight hundred respect twenty four to seven. That's

0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.640
<v Speaker 3>one eight hundred seven three to seven three seven.

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Daily Os.

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 2>We've loved reading your beautiful reviews on Apple Podcasts. My

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.040
<v Speaker 2>mum told me that she now understands how to leave

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 2>me a five star reviews, so that's good news. It

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 2>only took a couple of years. If you'd like to

0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>join my mum and several others who have left lovely comments,

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 2>please do so. It means that you know other people

0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 2>can hear about this podcast and learn about it, and

0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.440
<v Speaker 2>that means the world to us. Have a great date.

0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 3>Bye,