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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's be grateful for our regrets because they give

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Speaker 2: us the growth, they give us the meaning. They improve

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Speaker 2: our performance, they improve our decisions if we're willing to

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Speaker 2: be analytical and strategic about them.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hey, a quick question for you, Coylie. I'm back. I'm

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Speaker 3: back from New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: By the way, can I say how much I love

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Speaker 2: being back on the Sunshine Coast where it is not

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Speaker 2: six degrees in the middle of the day.

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Speaker 4: I ate all the trouble.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I noticed, coup Believe you did that. This is

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Speaker 3: Doc Justin Colson Hallo.

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Speaker 2: I'm the founder of Happy Families dot com, dot you,

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Speaker 2: and the parenting expert on Channel Line's Parental Guidance. Also

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Speaker 2: dad to six kids who I share with the mum

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Speaker 2: of those six kids, Kylie, this Happy Family. She joins

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Speaker 2: me on the podcast today. And Kylie, have you noticed

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Speaker 2: that I've been using my telephone a lot less lately?

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Speaker 3: I know I've been in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: For the last couple of days, but have you noticed

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Speaker 2: how little I've been using my phone over the last

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks. That was hardly encouraging.

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Speaker 3: Really a little bit.

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Speaker 4: You've been reading a lot.

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Speaker 3: I've been reading a lot.

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Speaker 2: I've read like I can't wait for next week when

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Speaker 2: we have our book club conversation.

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Speaker 3: I just read.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying I'm excited.

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Speaker 3: Books this month, six books. Not that I'm showing off.

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Speaker 4: How many dishes have you done?

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Speaker 3: I used to.

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Speaker 2: I'm still doing the dishes like crazy, not like our kids.

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Speaker 2: The total screen time that I normally get prior to

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Speaker 2: my recent screen time changes, I've gone from between four

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Speaker 2: and five hours a day on my telephone to less

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Speaker 2: than an hour and a half per day. I've gone

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Speaker 2: from more than one hundred pickups per day. I'm down

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Speaker 2: to forty two pickups per day.

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Speaker 4: You've still got a long way to go.

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Speaker 3: Then, should we have look at your phone? Missus happy family?

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Speaker 4: You can, but it's not very fair because my phone

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Speaker 4: is used by three other children.

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Speaker 2: Oh, excuses, excuses, excuse now. The reason that I'm bringing

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Speaker 2: that up is because I wanted to talk today about

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Speaker 2: a topic. What moments would you take back so that

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Speaker 2: you could have them differently? If you could go back

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Speaker 2: and do it all over again. It meant the time machine,

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Speaker 2: go back and stop yourself doing or do differently if

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Speaker 2: you had to go through that scenario again. And I

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Speaker 2: was replaying various scenarios in my head, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't that be a great podcast conversation. I'll go first,

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Speaker 2: And you know what's interesting about this. The first one

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Speaker 2: that I thought of was the one that I talk

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Speaker 2: about all the time in my book and my presentation,

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Speaker 2: the one where I completely lost the plot without three

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Speaker 2: in nature with Chanel when she was a three year

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Speaker 2: old girl, and I lost the plot, and that was

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Speaker 2: did you just call her a three name three naj?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the reason that I would go back is because

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Speaker 2: it was such a hurtful experience. I was so mad

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Speaker 2: at her and I hurt her and it wounded me.

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Speaker 2: It still does wound me today. And yet if I

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Speaker 2: went back and change that, I'd probably still be a

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Speaker 2: radio announcer. I probably wouldn't have quit my career. I

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Speaker 2: probably wouldn't have gone and done my psychology study. He's

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Speaker 2: gotten a PhD, written the books, and we wouldn't of them.

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Speaker 4: It was the catalyst for change. Yes, it was so

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Speaker 4: painful that it created change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I kind of went, wow, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I I don't know if I would. It

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Speaker 2: was a horrible situation. It's something that I hope I

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Speaker 2: never experienced again, and I have that none of my

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Speaker 2: children ever experienced, on nobody's children ever experienced.

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Speaker 3: And yet it was so important.

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Speaker 2: And then I thought of the other just the mistakes

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Speaker 2: that I make when I get cranky and I call

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Speaker 2: the kids a name, or I ignore them, or I'm

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Speaker 2: staring at my phone. Hence my question, have you noticed

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Speaker 2: I'm trying so hard to not use my phone anymore.

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Speaker 2: I've actually deleted a whole lot of apps. I've blocked

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Speaker 2: all of my all the websites. I can now only

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Speaker 2: look at like three different websites. I've literally put as

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Speaker 2: screen time limit so I can't look at any other website.

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Speaker 3: I can't check them news sites, can't even check Facebook.

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Speaker 2: It's all gone because I feel so much regret over

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Speaker 2: the times where I've gotten it wrong. What did you

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Speaker 2: put on your list when I asked you?

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Speaker 4: This is a pretty tricky one because we all have

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Speaker 4: moments that we regret, and I think probably the first

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Speaker 4: one that stands out to me would be we had

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Speaker 4: baby number two, and then four months later, I fell

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Speaker 4: pregnant with baby number three. Yes, and that was a

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Speaker 4: really huge turning point for me and my mothering. Up

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Speaker 4: until that point, I really felt like I had a

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Speaker 4: handle on things. But when I fell pregnant with baby

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Speaker 4: number three, number one, I knew physically my body had

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Speaker 4: not healed yet, and I was not physically prepared for it.

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Speaker 4: But I was definitely not mentally prepared to do that

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Speaker 4: again and go through that process, and as a result,

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Speaker 4: I fell a pardon. That two years was very dark

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Speaker 4: and very messy for all of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you had some proper mental health challenges through that

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Speaker 2: yet time.

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Speaker 4: But I feel like it took me, like, not just

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Speaker 4: the two years till I was kind of really back

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Speaker 4: on my feet. It took me a long time, a

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Speaker 4: long time to find my confidence as a much again

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Speaker 4: and to feel whole again. That had a huge impact

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Speaker 4: on me and as a results as a mother figure

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Speaker 4: for my children. You know, I just I don't feel

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Speaker 4: like they ever got the best of me for many

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Speaker 4: many years.

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Speaker 3: And yet I look at those kids and I'm so

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Speaker 3: grateful for them. They were just such great kids.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm not for any second saying I didn't don't

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Speaker 4: want and didn't want that child just so close together.

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Speaker 4: YEA was my undoing for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: Any other regrets to anything else that if you could

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Speaker 2: go back and change, you'd love to know.

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Speaker 4: You talked about the three three Manger. She has been

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Speaker 4: one of our biggest teachers in life. And when she

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Speaker 4: became a proper teenager and went through her rebellion and

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Speaker 4: rebellious stage, I remember for so long feeling really calm

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Speaker 4: and peaceful. I recognized that she was just spread her

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Speaker 4: wings and she was just, you know, pushing the boundaries

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Speaker 4: because that's what you do at that age. And it

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Speaker 4: wasn't until she started sharing what she was doing that

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Speaker 4: the panic buttons started to push. And I was so

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Speaker 4: fearful of losing her that I did things that I'm

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Speaker 4: not proud of. And we had conversations that I wish

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Speaker 4: we'd never had, and interactions that were hurtful on both sides.

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Speaker 2: And isn't it funny how how terribly badly we parent

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Speaker 2: when we parent out a fear rather rather than trust

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Speaker 2: or faith or whatever word you want to use instead.

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Speaker 4: And I just wish that I had trusted my initial instinct,

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Speaker 4: which was, she's doing exactly what she's supposed to be

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Speaker 4: doing right now. She's right where she's supposed to be.

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Speaker 4: She is supposed to be pushing those boundaries, she is

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Speaker 4: supposed to be trying to work it out for herself

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Speaker 4: because she is such a beautiful kid, and she is

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Speaker 4: doing life her own way, and it's not the way

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Speaker 4: I would have chosen, but it's not my life. It'

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Speaker 4: ters and because of that, the relationship that we share

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Speaker 4: is beautiful.

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Speaker 3: After the break.

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Speaker 2: I want to share some ideas to help any parent

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Speaker 2: who has some regrets, any parent who would love to

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Speaker 2: go back and do things a little differently. Psychological science

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Speaker 2: has given us a couple of hints on how we

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Speaker 2: can move forward when sometimes all we want to do

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Speaker 2: is look backwards. If you have more than one child,

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Speaker 2: there's a simple truth. They're going to fight, they're going

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Speaker 2: to compete, and they're going to have relationship troubles. But

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Speaker 2: the real secret isn't how to stop the fighting, it's

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Speaker 2: how to teach them kindness. The Teaching Kids Kindness webinar

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Speaker 2: will help you to do just that, but also help

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Speaker 2: them build lifelong sibling bonds that lead to lifelong friendships.

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Speaker 2: Check out Teaching Kids Kindness at happy families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot au.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, have you heard of the first law of holes?

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Speaker 4: The first law of holes?

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Speaker 2: I'll take that response as an h L E. S. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like as in a hole in the ground, the first

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Speaker 2: law of holes. I guess you haven't. Based on that response.

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Speaker 2: The first law of holes is when you find yourself

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Speaker 2: in one, stop digging. You didn't laugh.

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Speaker 3: I was expecting law from you that this is. Is

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Speaker 3: this a joke? Well, well no, it ties in with

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Speaker 3: what we're getting out.

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Speaker 4: But that was a joke.

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Speaker 2: Well no, no, it's actually something that's called the first

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Speaker 2: law of holes. If you google it, I'm sure you'll

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Speaker 2: find it. Hang on a sec, I need to google

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Speaker 2: to make sure that the first law of holes is

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Speaker 2: really a thing.

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Speaker 4: You usually got your psychology hat on, so I was

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Speaker 4: waiting for something really profound.

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Speaker 3: The first Law of holes on Wikipedia. Here we go.

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Speaker 3: The first law of holes or the law of holes.

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Speaker 2: Is an adage which states, if you find yourself in

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Speaker 2: a hole, stop digging. When it is said, if you

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Speaker 2: find yourself in a hole, stop digging. It's because digging

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Speaker 2: a hole makes it deeper and therefore harder to get

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Speaker 2: out of, which is used as a metaphor when in

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Speaker 2: an untenable position, it's best to stop making the situation worse.

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Speaker 2: More generally, it advises how one should solve problems of

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Speaker 2: their own making. This second law of holes is commonly

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Speaker 2: known as when you stop digging, you are still in

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Speaker 2: a hole. And that's why I just thought the law

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Speaker 2: of holes was. We're talking about regrets, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: the things that we get wrong, and I wanted to

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Speaker 2: bring up the first law of holes because when we

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Speaker 2: think about the scenarios where we wish we could go

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Speaker 2: back and do them differently, what we're really saying is,

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Speaker 2: we found ourselves in a hole, did we stop digging?

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Speaker 3: What did we do?

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Speaker 2: And when we stop digging and get ourselves out of

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Speaker 2: the hole, we're doing hard things.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 4: We're stretching our muscles, we're becoming stronger in whatever it

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Speaker 4: is that we're striving to achieve.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let's talk about regret, because we both have

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Speaker 2: these regrets from the way we've raised our kids and

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Speaker 2: we know that every parent does. So I want to

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Speaker 2: highlight some advantages to regret.

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Speaker 4: Well, they stop you from making the same mistake.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: I've got three ideas that the tie in with that.

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Speaker 2: What regret does is, first off, it improves a decision making.

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Speaker 2: So because we've made the mistakes that we've made, we

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Speaker 2: can now look at those mistakes and say, well, next

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Speaker 2: time I'm in a hole like that, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: stop digging sooner or I'm not even going to pick

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Speaker 2: up shovel and allow myself to get into that hole.

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Speaker 2: So our decision making becomes much better because of the.

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Speaker 3: Experiences that we've had.

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Speaker 2: Some people say, oh, I don't have any regrets in

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Speaker 2: my life, and my response to that is, then you

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Speaker 2: haven't learned anything.

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Speaker 4: You haven't actually been true to yourself.

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Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, I mean, like you're not acting. Do you

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Speaker 3: know what your values are?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever transgressed your values? How could you not

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Speaker 2: regret things in your life?

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Speaker 4: I think that if you've learnt to people, please, I

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Speaker 4: think that's where that comes from.

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Speaker 2: But wouldn't you regret that as well? Because you're not

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Speaker 2: living authentically, You're.

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Speaker 4: Not living haven't even worked out well.

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Speaker 3: So you need to know who you are, that's right.

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Speaker 4: So I think that people that say they don't have

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Speaker 4: any regrets are people that don't actually truly know who

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Speaker 4: they are.

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Speaker 2: When I think about how regret improves decisions, and I

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Speaker 2: think about the mistakes that I made with Chanel that

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Speaker 2: day when she was three, the decision that I made

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Speaker 2: following that regret has changed our lives and the lives

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Speaker 2: of hundreds of thousands of people around the world literally

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Speaker 2: because of that one thing. I still regret it, but

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't jump into the way

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Speaker 2: back machine, go back and try to stop myself from

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Speaker 2: losing the plot that day because it has fundamentally changed

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Speaker 2: everything for so many Well.

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Speaker 4: And I think about the experiences we had with her

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Speaker 4: as a teenager, and in some ways, as much as

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Speaker 4: I wish that we could take that back as well,

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Speaker 4: I actually feel like she saw us wrestling, She saw

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Speaker 4: us wrestling with our own internals, and as a result,

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Speaker 4: could recognize just how hard it was for us to

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Speaker 4: get from A to B, and the respect that she

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Speaker 4: actually has for us now that we're at B only

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Speaker 4: came because she was intimately aware of that wrestle.

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Speaker 2: Also, the things that we went through with her have

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Speaker 2: made us better parents, and they've made us better like

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Speaker 2: we make much better decisions in terms of who we

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Speaker 2: help and how we help them and the families that

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Speaker 2: I'm able to help. Everything that we regret has actually

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Speaker 2: been turned to our good for our learning and benefit

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Speaker 2: and the benefit of those around us. Even having two

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Speaker 2: kids forty months apart, we make better decisions.

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Speaker 3: Didn't do that again? Did we?

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Speaker 2: We go way better at the Second thing that regret

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Speaker 2: does is regret helps you to improve your performance, like

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Speaker 2: you just do things better. That's why my regrets around

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Speaker 2: not being available to the kids because I'm staring at

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Speaker 2: a screen. I now leave the phone in the bedroom,

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Speaker 2: or I leave the phone somewhere where I'm not with

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Speaker 2: the kids. I don't know if you've noticed, I just

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Speaker 2: don't have the phone on me.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if we had tabs on a book, whether

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Speaker 4: or not it would have the same.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what, though books have, books have natural

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Speaker 2: stopping places right end of chapter, end of paragraph, end

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Speaker 2: of sentence, whereas with Instagram, once you get onto those reels,

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Speaker 2: once you get on TikTok, there is no natural stopping place.

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Speaker 3: It's engineered that way. You're watching a TV show, if

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Speaker 3: you're reading a good book.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to put it down. Of course it is,

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Speaker 4: even if there is a natural stopping place.

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Speaker 2: All I'm saying is the regrets that we have help

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Speaker 2: us to do better. I'm on my phone less and

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Speaker 2: I think about times where I might have called the kids.

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Speaker 3: A name, for example.

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Speaker 2: The hurt that that creates leads to the regret that

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Speaker 2: makes me say, I can't do that again. And so

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Speaker 2: regret doesn't just improve our decisions, it improves our performance.

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Speaker 2: But the big one, and you've really skimmed around this

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Speaker 2: the whole time we've been talking without actually saying it,

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Speaker 2: is regrets deepen. Meaning So when you think about these

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Speaker 2: hard things that we've been through, you think about the

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Speaker 2: mistakes we've made, You think about the regrets that we make,

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Speaker 2: the regrets that we create as parents, because we work

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Speaker 2: through them and figure out how to reconcile from the ruptures,

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Speaker 2: because we work out how we can become better, how

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Speaker 2: we can tune our character to a higher level, how

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Speaker 2: we can work with our kids and help them to

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Speaker 2: improve after a regretful moment. What that does is it

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Speaker 2: deepens the quality of the relationship. It deepens the meaning

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Speaker 2: of our lives the regrets that we have. Actually, I

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Speaker 2: love that song. I don't even remember who sings, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's a Frank Sinatras.

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Speaker 3: The line is regrets.

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Speaker 2: I have a few, and I think we don't recognize

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Speaker 2: the value of regrets. When people say regret nothing or

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Speaker 2: I've got no regrets, I'm sort of going, I don't

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Speaker 2: think you're thinking hard enough about it.

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Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for the things that I regret.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's the same for everyone, though. I

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Speaker 4: think that some people feel stuck by regret sure, and

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Speaker 4: this probably doesn't allow them to actually move forward.

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Speaker 2: And in some cases there'd be some terrible trauma associated

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Speaker 2: with some things. And so I want to be sensitive

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Speaker 2: that I'm not putting this blanket statement of that we

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Speaker 2: should regret everything or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: But I just want to highlight that regrets.

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Speaker 2: Serve valuable purposes if will harness the value of them.

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Speaker 2: And that's because we can do two things with regrets

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Speaker 2: that we can't do with things that we don't regret.

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Speaker 2: The first one is that we can undo it. So

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Speaker 2: that's where apologies come in. That's where we learn from

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Speaker 2: what we don't make the mistake again, and when we

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Speaker 2: can't undo it, because some things you can't undo, like

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Speaker 2: you can't undo having two kids forty months apart, you.

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Speaker 4: Know you can't, but you do learn to say no.

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Speaker 2: Yes you do, don't you Missus Coulson, Yes you do.

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Speaker 2: My mummy used to always say three things never come back,

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Speaker 2: the spent arrow, the spoken word, and the lost opportunity.

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Speaker 2: It's actually a quote from William Gregory page. But Mummy

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Speaker 2: used to say that all the time. And when I

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Speaker 2: think about the regrets that we have, those words that

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Speaker 2: I've spoken that I wish they're gone, they never come back.

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Speaker 2: So I can't undo those things, just like a couple

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Speaker 2: of kids forty months apart. But if you can't undo it,

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Speaker 2: you can at least it. And when you at least it,

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Speaker 2: you say, well, I do regret it, but at least

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Speaker 2: and then you find the silver lining, You find the

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Speaker 2: bright side, You find the growth, you find the learning,

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Speaker 2: you find the benefit that came. Even though I wish

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Speaker 2: that I hadn't done what I did with my daughter

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Speaker 2: that day when she was three, I do, I really

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Speaker 2: wish that I hadn't, But at least because it happened.

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Speaker 2: All of these things have cascaded through our lives in

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Speaker 2: the life of other people. Does that make sense? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: totally so with regrets. Undo it if you can. If

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Speaker 2: you can't, undo it, at least it. But let's be

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Speaker 2: grateful for our regrets because they give us the growth,

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Speaker 2: they give us the meaning, They improve our performance, they

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Speaker 2: improve our decisions if we're willing to be analytical and

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Speaker 2: strategic about them.

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Speaker 3: That's my big idea for today's podcast.

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Speaker 4: It's a big idea, but I like it.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Ruland for

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd

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Speaker 2: like more information about finding out how to make your

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Speaker 2: family happier, We've got a webinar this coming Monday night,

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Speaker 2: August fifteenth that I think you are going to love.

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Speaker 2: It's called what to Do When Kids Won't Listen? What

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Speaker 2: to do when kids won't listen so they don't end

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Speaker 2: up doing things that you'll regret. Join us for the webinar.

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Speaker 2: All the details are at the Facebook page doctor Justin

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Speaker 2: Colson's Happy Families on Facebook, or you can find more

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Speaker 2: info at happy families dot com.

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Speaker 3: Dot a you