Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Yarning Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
Speaker 1: stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
Speaker 1: history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: proud barber woman and founder of Black Wadel Coaching and Consulting,
Speaker 1: Caroline cow We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
Speaker 1: this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
Speaker 1: that you are listening in from today. It always was
Speaker 1: and always will be unseated Aboriginal and tourist rede Islander Land.
Speaker 1: Hey you mob, Welcome back to Yarning Up. As always,
Speaker 1: we are so incredibly grateful that you you are here
Speaker 1: with us, choosing to continue the journey of walking alongside
Speaker 1: our First Nations brothers and sisters here in so called Australia,
Speaker 1: continuing to listen, to learn, to unlearn, and elevate First
Speaker 1: Nations peoples and stories because we are all in the
Speaker 1: business of truth telling right now and we need you
Speaker 1: to continue this good fight. We are all witnessing the
Speaker 1: horrors of the colonial oppressive powers, and my heart aches
Speaker 1: for our Palestinian brothers and sisters who have been subjected
Speaker 1: to an ongoing ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide at the
Speaker 1: hands of the Israeli government. We of course condemn any
Speaker 1: actions of harmas but we cannot and we will not
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to the colonial forces and the
Speaker 1: genocide that we are seeing in the war in Gaza
Speaker 1: right now, from the river and to the sea. None
Speaker 1: of us are free until we are all free. And
Speaker 1: to the Palestinian brothers and sisters, know that every First
Speaker 1: nation's people and mob and clans are standing in solidarity
Speaker 1: with you, and we are using our voices and we
Speaker 1: are elevating and we are activating here and we are
Speaker 1: just thinking of you so much. This week's episode is
Speaker 1: a beautiful episode with an incredible lawyer, warrior, community woman
Speaker 1: and activists Maggie Blandon. Maggie and I shot this episode
Speaker 1: a week after the failed referendum here in so called Australia,
Speaker 1: as we wanted to bring you a very raw and
Speaker 1: very candor discussion about how we were feeling and how
Speaker 1: we want to reconstruct and deconstruct post the failed referendum.
Speaker 1: That said, the quality of the sound is not the
Speaker 1: best because I was traveling up to see my family
Speaker 1: on beautiful Barbroom Country, but we wanted to bring you
Speaker 1: this episode in spite of that. All my love to
Speaker 1: everyone listening right now. It's important that we nourish ourselves
Speaker 1: the best we can while we continue to fight for
Speaker 1: the systemic injustices that the colonial powers continue to subject
Speaker 1: first nations and marginalized and people of color to.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I'm super super excited to speak to my next guest,
Speaker 1: a young sister girl who I've been following for quite
Speaker 1: some time, who's been doing amazing working community, especially around
Speaker 1: educating the masses on the now failed referendum. It's been
Speaker 1: a week since Australia.
Speaker 3: By a large margin, voted against enshrining the Aboriginal voice
Speaker 3: in the Constitution, and so I'm really excited to be
Speaker 3: meeting with Maggie Blandon today decide to talk a little
Speaker 3: bit about the aftermath of the referendum.
Speaker 1: And where we can possibly possibly go next.
Speaker 3: So thank you so much for being here with me today,
Speaker 3: sister Lovely, to connect in this way.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me. I actually
Speaker 4: have to double take when I saw the message, I
Speaker 4: was like, are you soest? This is so special, So
Speaker 4: thank you so much for even considering me to come
Speaker 4: on and have a yarm.
Speaker 1: Oh no, don't be silly.
Speaker 3: We'd love to have you on. You've been doing so
Speaker 3: much amazing work and this is what the show is
Speaker 3: all about, is bringing people like you to Australia and
Speaker 3: across the other side of the world.
Speaker 1: So the feeling is very mutual. Before we dive.
Speaker 3: Into the referendum and what you're doing at Melbourne University,
Speaker 3: I'd love you to start, you know, as we always
Speaker 3: do it, yearning up with just a little bit about yeah,
Speaker 3: who you are, who's your mob, a bit about your
Speaker 3: personal story, anything you feel called to share.
Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
Speaker 4: My name is Maggie Ida Blandon. I'm a proud pallow,
Speaker 4: a woman from Lutuita, Tasmania. I always like to pay
Speaker 4: tribute to the people that have come for me, the
Speaker 4: giants whose shoulders and I'm trying to stand on. So
Speaker 4: I've got my great grandmother, Auntie Ida West or Grunny
Speaker 4: Ducks to me. She was an amazing advocate for Aboriginal
Speaker 4: women's health, learn rights and empowerment for our community. She
Speaker 4: has this really special spot who where I always go
Speaker 4: back to the anti Ida West Healing Garden on why Berlena,
Speaker 4: the site of an awful, awful genocide of our people,
Speaker 4: but she reminds us all in that garden to sit
Speaker 4: with it, but also come to terms with moving forward
Speaker 4: as a community and working towards First Nations justice. Everyone
Speaker 4: has stories about grand so I'll move on from her.
Speaker 4: Every time I go to a conference or anything, everyone's like,
Speaker 4: Mama Grant needs to do this. I'm like, you're saying, no,
Speaker 4: She's amazing, So I move on to my pop now,
Speaker 4: Darryl West. He is he was such an amazing advocate
Speaker 4: in our community.
Speaker 2: His absence has really felt.
Speaker 4: He passed away a few years ago, but I feel
Speaker 4: like he's most known in our community. For I feel
Speaker 4: like everyone knows the Tasmanian Dam's case, or you know,
Speaker 4: the Franklin River campaign where we wanted to stop the
Speaker 4: damning of the Franklin River. It was kind of the
Speaker 4: birth of the Greens Party, and you know, it's where
Speaker 4: Bob Brown kind of came to light. But it was
Speaker 4: also for us a moment where our community banned together
Speaker 4: to save our heritage. So later on in the campaign,
Speaker 4: it was discovered that one of our old People's Caves
Speaker 4: was at the site of the Franklin River, and so
Speaker 4: so many of our old people were headed into the
Speaker 4: caves and camped out there for many, many months to
Speaker 4: protect our river and our heritage because it formed part
Speaker 4: of us. The river wasn't just something that we wanted
Speaker 4: to celebrate as a natural thing.
Speaker 2: It was it was us.
Speaker 4: It is our community, and we didn't want it to
Speaker 4: be absolutely destroyed by the damning of it. So his
Speaker 4: legacy is something that I'm trying and my Auntie Ida
Speaker 4: West legacy is something that I'm always trying to live
Speaker 4: up to. I've grown up in community down in lotrowa
Speaker 4: biggest mob down there. Shout out to you all. Went
Speaker 4: to our Aboriginal daycare down there, which was the coolest
Speaker 4: experience of my life. I'm so grateful that we even
Speaker 4: have that available to young people in our community. We
Speaker 4: learn Pavakani, which is our language, debts are you know,
Speaker 4: we do it all down there. It's so special, whilst
Speaker 4: also just learning how to be young people in this
Speaker 4: crazy world, and that's on country on pure Kipma, which
Speaker 4: is really special.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: We've grown up jumping on the Aboriginal school bus heading
Speaker 4: to all the protests that were happening in Nippolona whenever
Speaker 4: we were needed, us young fellas, and that was something
Speaker 4: that I've continued to kind of hold onto, that fight
Speaker 4: and that passion.
Speaker 2: So that's me.
Speaker 1: Well gosh, So you know, after hearing that, I'm not
Speaker 1: surprised that you come from this long line of worriors.
Speaker 1: All my follows do.
Speaker 3: But you know, just to hear that story about your
Speaker 3: your old ones and where you come from, it can't
Speaker 3: of makes a lot more sense about you know, the
Speaker 3: person that you are and the legacies that you're creating
Speaker 3: and the pathways you're creating.
Speaker 1: And I love.
Speaker 3: Hearing those stories. I mean, stories are medicine. They there
Speaker 3: are ways that we make sense.
Speaker 1: Of the world, but as Black followers, there's ways that
Speaker 1: we make sense of ourselves.
Speaker 3: And so to hear that, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I loved I love a garden named after me one day.
Speaker 4: Literally at the sight of such a violent and like
Speaker 4: horrible genocide that happened to our people, it just it
Speaker 4: forms who we are as Poloor people today. And to
Speaker 4: have a sight of healing named after you to remind
Speaker 4: us all to keep going, to have those moments of
Speaker 4: joy to have those times where you sit and reflects
Speaker 4: something so special about her legacy. I love that people
Speaker 4: felt that that was the right thing to do. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's obviously no way to look at that in
Speaker 3: terms of you know, how horrific the genocide and that
Speaker 3: the massacre would be. But there's something to be told
Speaker 3: about black fellows to make things that are so inherently
Speaker 3: violent still have that black and rich beauty to some expert,
Speaker 3: and the remembrance and the reclamation of that is really
Speaker 3: something that can be yeah, to be explored. But yeah, wow,
Speaker 3: that's really fascinating to learn about your your personal story.
Speaker 3: I mean, in thinking about that, you know, I'd love
Speaker 3: to just sort of unpack a little bit further about your
Speaker 3: personal story. You are a law student at Melbourne University,
Speaker 3: and you know, as I said, I really want to
Speaker 3: touch on the work you were doing with non law school.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean what led you to law and justice?
Speaker 1: Was it your old ones? Was it your family? What
Speaker 1: what talked me through how you got there in your life? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's always my old ones that inspire everything I do.
Speaker 4: I've always had the power of education driven into me
Speaker 4: as a young The younger, it was always you will
Speaker 4: go to school and you will get terstory education. And
Speaker 4: you know, people can get resentful about that and can
Speaker 4: be like, but I just want to, you know, go
Speaker 4: and work or go do things. But I feel like
Speaker 4: the power of education has always been to my family,
Speaker 4: soaking up as much information as you can learn as
Speaker 4: much as the white of the white system that you
Speaker 4: absolutely can, and then bring it back to community to
Speaker 4: further empower us. All during the early seventies eighties in
Speaker 4: our community, we had a lot of anger and a
Speaker 4: lot of powerful resentment and emotions coming out in our community.
Speaker 4: Were starting to get angry about what had happened to us,
Speaker 4: and lots of our community would end up in prison
Speaker 4: after you know, fighting for our rights, protesting, training us
Speaker 4: to the gates of you know, the Franklin River, you
Speaker 4: know the tack Heina, and it led to a lot
Speaker 4: of our people getting locked up, and so matriarchs in
Speaker 4: our community, including Annie Outa West, set up our Peak
Speaker 4: Body back home through fundraising. They were just selling little
Speaker 4: cakes at the mall just and this fundraising was literally
Speaker 4: just going towards getting our people out of prison, getting
Speaker 4: them out of prison for standing up for our rights,
Speaker 4: and so we then started to flip and we realized
Speaker 4: that perhaps aggression and violence maybe isn't the right course.
Speaker 4: You know, there's always a place for it, there's always
Speaker 4: a place for anger and protesting, but you know, maybe
Speaker 4: we need to turn our attentions towards getting educated and
Speaker 4: learning the white man's system. So, you know, we all
Speaker 4: headed to schools and we started to head to universities
Speaker 4: for the first time, and we actually had an Aboriginal
Speaker 4: school set up down in Nippolona, which was really cool
Speaker 4: and it just encouraged young people to turn to edge location.
Speaker 4: And then we had the first community members turn to law.
Speaker 4: So it was the first yeah, power people to become lawyers.
Speaker 4: We've got Michael Mansell, We've got Heavy Skull for Rosie Smith,
Speaker 4: all people who I look up to. There're such role
Speaker 4: models for me, and they were the first people to
Speaker 4: kind of be like, you know, our people are in prison,
Speaker 4: what can we do about that. We can learn the
Speaker 4: white man's law and empower our community through that. And
Speaker 4: I'm inspired continually to you know, this degree is one
Speaker 4: of the hardest things I've done. I have done hard
Speaker 4: things in my life, and I know that sounds so privileged,
Speaker 4: but it is not. It does not come naturally to me.
Speaker 4: I'm not a rational being like they want you to be.
Speaker 4: So I've just pushed myself. Every day I wake up
Speaker 4: and I remind myself that this is not for me.
Speaker 4: This is for my community. And I've worked for many years,
Speaker 4: no longer actually for the Peak body the TAC down Home,
Speaker 4: and that's been quite fun mental to the person I
Speaker 4: am today. And I'm now actually really excited to have
Speaker 4: been nominated to be on the board for the TC,
Speaker 4: which was really special. And it feels like, you know,
Speaker 4: Kenny and I always talk about we need to have
Speaker 4: young people's voices heard in our community. We need to
Speaker 4: be empowering them through leadership positions, and so this feels
Speaker 4: like the time where I can turn around and you know,
Speaker 4: give back to my community through that. And you know,
Speaker 4: wherever I end up with my law degree, I just
Speaker 4: want to be helping mob and you know that.
Speaker 2: Could be criminal law.
Speaker 4: Sadly, you know, overrepresented in the criminal justice system. The
Speaker 4: most incarcerated people on this damp planet could be family
Speaker 4: in law, with having children ripped away from us like
Speaker 4: nothing else. We're literally witnessing a second stolen generation could
Speaker 4: be land rights, it could be ip I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: I'm graduating in a few weeks, so I really need
Speaker 4: to narrow that down and pick something to work on
Speaker 4: during the nine to five. But also I'll continue to
Speaker 4: campaign for all the rest after five, you know, in
Speaker 4: my lunch breaks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gosh, it's so I mean, you're so right a
Speaker 3: lot in that context about you know, the importance of
Speaker 3: education and how you know, so many of our old
Speaker 3: ones really instill that legitimacy by the colony to have
Speaker 3: that sort of degree, to be able to give something
Speaker 3: back to our communities.
Speaker 1: And I guess it's also really interesting.
Speaker 3: To hear you say that, you know, it's the hardest
Speaker 3: thing you've done, because I could imagine, Yeah, the proximity
Speaker 3: to these very big imperial systems, academia, governments, it does
Speaker 3: bring up a lot sometimes for mom. I've worked with
Speaker 3: a few clients who are coach who have expressed, yeah,
Speaker 3: that sometimes that proximity to these big systems that they
Speaker 3: don't really value our knowledge, They don't really value how
Speaker 3: we do business, they don't really value the importance of
Speaker 3: how we tell stories or our knowledge. They only value
Speaker 3: theirs and then there's this kind of dichotomy between our
Speaker 3: knowledge systems and their knowledge systems, But we.
Speaker 1: Still have to toe the line to.
Speaker 3: Get their paper and then bring it back make sense
Speaker 3: of it. So we're always doing so much labor here,
Speaker 3: So I'm not surprised to hear that it's been challenging.
Speaker 1: So true, Roestly, we're the hardest work in colors.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, even like the referencing guide for the law the
Speaker 4: bloody what is it? A GLC? You can't give lived experience.
Speaker 4: There's something that you want to talk about in an
Speaker 4: so you have to find a primary or a secondary
Speaker 4: legal source, like what about our you know, opal traditions,
Speaker 4: what about these stories that have passed down? I want
Speaker 4: to talk about that in my property rights? Best way
Speaker 4: to talk about Marbo. Why can't I be doing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. And also too, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of this work is yet you know.
Speaker 3: Not only do we have like we can't author or
Speaker 3: our own information, but also it's kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 3: who's telling the story.
Speaker 1: And on whose term? Sometimes you know, And so I
Speaker 1: imagine it would be difficult. But I must say we've
Speaker 1: had Taylor Gray on the podcast, you know, we've I
Speaker 1: work with a couple of sisters who were in the
Speaker 1: legal firm. We did vowel strategic plan. There is this
Speaker 1: not maybe it is an explosion.
Speaker 3: I feel a young lawyer powerhouses who are really trying
Speaker 3: to change the discourse in yeah, what's good and right
Speaker 3: and fair in our worlds. And it's really bloody exciting
Speaker 3: to see so many young ones really take up that
Speaker 3: charge because yeah, we do have such a problem in
Speaker 3: Australia with overrepresentation in these areas.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, congratulations on getting through.
Speaker 3: This and being at a point where you're about to
Speaker 3: graduate and you don't have to have all the answers
Speaker 3: just yet. If you can work it out as you.
Speaker 2: Go, absolutely doors will open. Trust the pros.
Speaker 3: Exactly right, and I think doors will open for you
Speaker 3: because you have been a very very busy person. You know,
Speaker 3: in the lead up to the referendum. You showed incredible
Speaker 3: leadership an incredible courage as well in setting up Actually
Speaker 3: I'd love to find out a little bit more, but
Speaker 3: you know, as I understand you follows set up what's
Speaker 3: called num Law numb Law Students on the Voice twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three, which was really focused on providing neutral fact
Speaker 3: base education and resourcing to whoever was willing to really
Speaker 3: take it on board. And it was a mixture of
Speaker 3: you know, black followers and allies. So how did this
Speaker 3: all come about? You know, you mob are busy, you're studying,
Speaker 3: you're doing your exams. What what was the catalyst that
Speaker 3: led to you to set up norm law students on
Speaker 3: the Voice and what work did you want to take
Speaker 3: throughout this time in the lead up to the referendum.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, You've been following us the whole time, which has
Speaker 4: been really special.
Speaker 2: Was like, oh, cousins like this post.
Speaker 4: Yes, we're doing well here and sharing and sharing.
Speaker 1: I was like, get on board.
Speaker 4: I was so awesome. I was like, yeah, we got
Speaker 4: the tick of approval. Let's keep going. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 4: like no more students on Voice. It really was triggered
Speaker 4: by feeling absolutely disheartened by the increasing wave of disinformation
Speaker 4: and misinformation that was spreading our through our worlds at
Speaker 4: the time we started in May. Obviously the referendum campaign
Speaker 4: was occurring way before that, but this is when we
Speaker 4: felt the most disheartened about what was going on, and
Speaker 4: most of the discourse was about our humanities. It went
Speaker 4: to who we are as Aboriginal and charge under people
Speaker 4: none more students. On Voice is run by two Aboriginal women.
Speaker 4: We've got Keshimore and myself, which is really special. But
Speaker 4: we felt this pressure on us to you know, we've
Speaker 4: got this legal education, we're so fortunate enough to be
Speaker 4: in this institution. We've got all this legal knowledge. How
Speaker 4: about we use it for good? And you know, I
Speaker 4: pretty much look, I don't admit this often, but I
Speaker 4: almost failed constitutional loss so this is not my.
Speaker 2: Area of expertise, and I did.
Speaker 4: We were so fortunate enough to collaborate with some legal
Speaker 4: experts to help train us up to be constitutional law
Speaker 4: mini experts to help spread the information. So we've had
Speaker 4: Ryl Saunders and of course most importantly doctor Eddie Cabillo
Speaker 4: from the Indigenous Law and Justice Hub. And you know,
Speaker 4: we started to witness these violent and damaging information that
Speaker 4: was just spreading. And you know, when the official Yes
Speaker 4: and No pamphlets were released to all Australian households, they
Speaker 4: had never been fact checked and they never would be
Speaker 4: and they were official, the only official document that would
Speaker 4: be sent out to voting households. We just were like,
Speaker 4: this is we need to step in here and you know,
Speaker 4: we were seeing conspiracies from the Voice was going to
Speaker 4: take our backyard to you know, you n conspiracies. Fear
Speaker 4: was just growing. We had family members and friends coming
Speaker 4: to us like what do we want to do. We
Speaker 4: had mobs that have recently enrolled to vote because of
Speaker 4: this issue and that it was affecting us, and they
Speaker 4: were like, this is my first time voting. What do
Speaker 4: I do? I'm hearing all this stuff about me and
Speaker 4: my family and my community.
Speaker 2: How do I vote?
Speaker 4: So we wanted to create this community legal education campaign.
Speaker 4: It was very important to us that it be Indigenous led,
Speaker 4: community informed, and culturally safe. The yes and no from
Speaker 4: mob and the positionality mob were taking was very important
Speaker 4: to us that we tiptoed a line that had to
Speaker 4: be neutral and it had to be fact based because
Speaker 4: most of my community back home, they're very staunched no voters.
Speaker 2: But then we're in these echo chambers of yes. So
Speaker 2: we were just like, we want to.
Speaker 4: Canvas all of this and bring it into one place
Speaker 4: so that everyone has a one stop shop for information.
Speaker 4: So that's what kind of motivated no UM law students
Speaker 4: on Voice. We wanted people to be having conversations with
Speaker 4: friends and families and strangers on the tram and colleagues
Speaker 4: tea break prior and beyond the referendum, and we quickly
Speaker 4: noticed that we filled a gap in the market as
Speaker 4: such for this neutral and fact based information. The two
Speaker 4: sides of the campaign were dominating social media and the
Speaker 4: newspapers and the media. At the time, I felt like
Speaker 4: we could fill this void where voters were turning off
Speaker 4: when they were hearing information about the referendums. They didn't
Speaker 4: want to engage with the discourse. They wanted nothing to
Speaker 4: do with it. And that's not how democracy should work.
Speaker 4: All voters should have the information and be informed as
Speaker 4: possible so that we're not driven by scare tactics or
Speaker 4: you know, information that's based on harmful falsities. So yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, as a law student, we knew we had
Speaker 4: to do something. And as you said, we were a
Speaker 4: bunch of Indigenous and non Indigenous law students, most of
Speaker 4: us in our final year, and we were like, what
Speaker 4: can we do? And so came together and we've developed
Speaker 4: this twenty minute presentation that goes through just the basics
Speaker 4: of what a referendum is, what even the hell is
Speaker 4: a constitution, Why we're even voting in a referendum, what
Speaker 4: the proposed constitutional amendment looks like and what it means
Speaker 4: for you in your everyday life, and then what could
Speaker 4: happen post reference them for us. All we delivered sessions
Speaker 4: in person and online across the country. It was really special.
Speaker 4: We used all of our networks and tried to get
Speaker 4: to as many places as we could. We've talked to schools,
Speaker 4: we talked to hospitals, libraries, law firms, achos, residential colleges
Speaker 4: at UNI, and like local councils. We even had this
Speaker 4: one session with a group of NONNATS who just wanted
Speaker 4: to know more, which was really special.
Speaker 2: And then another.
Speaker 4: Favorite session was with Anka alongside brother boy Connor Bowden,
Speaker 4: which was really cool. It just showed that there was
Speaker 4: an appetite for information that wasn't colluded and wasn't flavored
Speaker 4: with some type of campaign. And so we've yeah been
Speaker 4: running this campaign since May and then it officially kind
Speaker 4: of closed obviously with the referendum, but you know, we've
Speaker 4: built up this important network and this platform, so it's
Speaker 4: definitely not the end for us. Kashi and I are
Speaker 4: really excited. It's just been released that we're finalless for
Speaker 4: the Human Rights Awards this year. It's insane, we can't
Speaker 4: believe it. But we want to use this platform that
Speaker 4: they've given us to kind of keep the passion, keep
Speaker 4: the fire going for First Nations justice but ongoing solidarity.
Speaker 4: It doesn't end on October fifteenth. It must keep going
Speaker 4: beyond the referendum. We just we're fearful that it will
Speaker 4: become kind of another Black Square, kind of a Black
Speaker 4: Lives Matter moment where people you know, post the Instagram,
Speaker 4: they post the back Square, but then they just move
Speaker 4: on and they get on with their lives. So we're
Speaker 4: really trying to push beyond and keep striving, keep our
Speaker 4: followers and our networks striving for self determination. For MOB
Speaker 4: in you know, so called Australia.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, wow, well wow, it's so fascinating to hear that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you mob off your own that got together as a
Speaker 1: multidisciplinary sort of team to be able to really combat,
Speaker 1: as you say, the avalanche of misinformation and for for
Speaker 1: you know, our overseas listeners, of which there are many
Speaker 1: who have been following along as we've had you know,
Speaker 1: Thomas Mayo and Niagara Murray and you know Benny Appenttondello,
Speaker 1: people you know, continuously talking about this over the last
Speaker 1: you know, seven episodes, you know, to paint the picture is,
Speaker 1: you know, all states and territory bar the capital, which
Speaker 1: is a very very small place, you know, unequivocally voted
Speaker 1: no because one I believe, you know, I think well
Speaker 1: over the next coming months and maybe years, will be
Speaker 1: able to continually analyze what actually happened.
Speaker 2: But I feel like.
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, akin to this kind of Cambridge analytica.
Speaker 1: Trump is a rhetoric about you know, mob taking you know,
Speaker 1: and resources. But in actual fact, the proposition that was
Speaker 1: put to the Australian public was fairly simple. And what
Speaker 1: I guess I'm concerned about now is that if they
Speaker 1: don't understand a voice, how on earth are they going
Speaker 1: to understand things like treaty and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And as you said before, you know, you said you're
Speaker 3: a lawyer and you failed constitutional recognition. It's almost as
Speaker 3: like the everyday Australian has to become a constitutional expert
Speaker 3: to be able to understand this. And so because you know,
Speaker 3: there's no you know, going back and you can always
Speaker 3: look and dissect in it with fine tooth comb. But
Speaker 3: you know, at the time, the Yes campaign had used
Speaker 3: very simple messaging to be able to sway more of
Speaker 3: the masses, and they had really compelling, an emotive.
Speaker 1: Campaigns.
Speaker 3: But I felt like there was these two camps. There
Speaker 3: was the people who were too lazy to find the information,
Speaker 3: people who were too easily swayed to actually that whole
Speaker 3: if you don't know, vote no. And then there's this
Speaker 3: whole camp that just like don't care enough to go
Speaker 3: and actually understand the information. And I think that was
Speaker 3: the hard pill for me to swallow, is is that
Speaker 3: there are so.
Speaker 1: Many people who by virtue have taken a choice, which
Speaker 1: is to.
Speaker 3: Do nothing, and that you know, a five minute Google
Speaker 3: and a yes, like two seconds out of your lives
Speaker 3: could have potentially saved some of our lives. And so
Speaker 3: I think the fact that you follows identified this and
Speaker 3: tried to combat this avalanche of a very well funded
Speaker 3: racist no campaign and the misinformation and then tried to
Speaker 3: make this palatable and understandable for the everyday person is
Speaker 3: yet really commendable. And I'm really delighted to hear that
Speaker 3: you have been nominated.
Speaker 1: And received this award. But I think it leaves us
Speaker 1: in a really scary place as black follows now because
Speaker 1: the everyday Australian one doesn't have the comprehension or two
Speaker 1: doesn't give a shit, And you know, how do we
Speaker 1: pull at heartstrings? I mean if seeing us being alarmingly
Speaker 1: locked up and all of us in the streets and
Speaker 1: us crying and pleading with the colony isn't enough to
Speaker 1: compel any action, I mean, yeah, I don't know. And
Speaker 1: I think that's like we were talking a little bit
Speaker 1: about this off air, but you know, it might be
Speaker 1: nice to circle back to that, which was the.
Speaker 3: Fallout of this. You know, for myself personally, I was
Speaker 3: a very skeptical Yes, I held reservations like most black
Speaker 3: fellows working with the colony, but I guess at the end,
Speaker 3: I wanted to believe that we were a country that
Speaker 3: was willing to tell the truth and move through this
Speaker 3: process of healing and reunification as people. That when the
Speaker 3: vote actually came through, it's almost like the optimism I
Speaker 3: had was so soul destroying.
Speaker 1: When that night I remember just I.
Speaker 3: Was actually meant to go to a black Black up party,
Speaker 3: this mob and you know, hang out, and I was
Speaker 3: just sobbing. I was wailing, I was crying. I I
Speaker 3: had three days off work. I didn't leave my couch.
Speaker 3: I you know, barely looked.
Speaker 2: At my phone.
Speaker 1: I just went really inwood because and then I got.
Speaker 3: To the point where I was like side eyeing everyone, thinking,
Speaker 3: am I even safe here? My nervous system just didn't
Speaker 3: feel safe. I was like, wow, and the only the
Speaker 3: only now.
Speaker 1: And I'm still like you probably two sis trying to
Speaker 1: process it. I'm certainly not on the other side. It's
Speaker 1: still very raw.
Speaker 3: But it's almost like the only thing that I can
Speaker 3: think of that is remotely good is that now we
Speaker 3: all unequivocally know.
Speaker 1: How Australia stands. We're starting from a point where there's nowhere,
Speaker 1: there's no ambiguouy.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, that's not my problem. It's like, well,
Speaker 3: now we can see it clear as day one.
Speaker 1: Just how much.
Speaker 3: Fricking more work we have to do? And I think
Speaker 3: that's the challenge. We're already just so exhausted and burning
Speaker 3: out the idea of restrategizing, recampaigning. So with all that said,
Speaker 3: you know, I'd love to see you know, I know
Speaker 3: you were busy, but how did you process it all emotionally,
Speaker 3: like what came up for you, you know, the week
Speaker 3: of and the results.
Speaker 1: How did you feel?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt I was lucky. Someone actually said to
Speaker 4: me two weeks in advance. I hadn't strategically been looking
Speaker 4: at the polls. It was just something that I just
Speaker 4: hadn't done. I'd just been so head down. We've got
Speaker 4: work to do. We've got to educate these people. We've
Speaker 4: got to inform all these voters who have no idea
Speaker 4: what they're talking about.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, Yeah, this person came up to me and.
Speaker 4: Was saying how they can't believe that Australia is going
Speaker 4: to vote know, and that it's going to be yeah,
Speaker 4: this overwhelming no, And I just I don't.
Speaker 2: Think i'd heard that yet.
Speaker 4: It hadn't actually been in my co chamber.
Speaker 2: I was in such an this is this is.
Speaker 4: Terrible, but an educated ally environment where of course it
Speaker 4: was going to be yes. You know, everywhere I looked
Speaker 4: there were the yes banners and the yes posters, and
Speaker 4: I was just shocked when this person came out and
Speaker 4: said it. I was just I didn't know what to say.
Speaker 4: And I think from there. The two weeks before the referendum.
Speaker 4: I agrieved preemptively for this result. It kind of hit
Speaker 4: me for the first time and I was, as you say,
Speaker 4: walking down the streets, like which one of yours was it?
Speaker 4: It's all of you, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's not. And it hit me so hard.
Speaker 4: We've been experiencing racism and hate in our comments for
Speaker 4: months now, so and you know you always get it
Speaker 4: every time you do any form of advocacy your comments. Lesson,
Speaker 4: do not read the comments. My cousin and my sister girls,
Speaker 4: Nala Mansell always says to me, Margaret Blandon best from
Speaker 4: read the comments, and I do it every time.
Speaker 2: However, I'm reading the.
Speaker 4: Comments now, I'm lost in some voice. And during that
Speaker 4: two week period, I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: these are the people, these are the people that are voting, know, and.
Speaker 2: I was grieving.
Speaker 4: I couldn't get out of bed days that last week,
Speaker 4: and I remember we had our breath work workshop and
Speaker 4: I'd finally gotten out of bed, I'd finally gotten myself
Speaker 4: out into the like the outside world, and I sat
Speaker 4: there with this beautiful breath work lesson with you guys.
Speaker 4: But one that week was so hard and so by
Speaker 4: the time I actually hit Saturday, and I you know,
Speaker 4: I'd blocked out the whole day.
Speaker 2: I bloked out the day.
Speaker 4: After, I'd made sure i'd made no plans, you know what.
Speaker 4: I was actually okay.
Speaker 2: I'd come to.
Speaker 4: Terms with it, obviously, not on the long term, in
Speaker 4: the short term kind of, I was okay, and I
Speaker 4: it was It was great because I could be there
Speaker 4: for my friends and my family and I could talk
Speaker 4: them through it. You know, my cousin back home, she
Speaker 4: was struggling. That was really hard for me. But in
Speaker 4: saying that, I was so grateful that I could be
Speaker 4: this strong big cousin for her and talk her through
Speaker 4: it and be of support for everyone. I just felt
Speaker 4: like the whole yeah referendum process, I was so resentful
Speaker 4: that we had to be dealing with this, And that
Speaker 4: was another thing. And that was the reason, sorry, why
Speaker 4: we started Mum Law Students on voice. Why should this
Speaker 4: be on mob to educate you all on something that
Speaker 4: you should know and as you said, they don't know.
Speaker 4: We can now see that clear. It's blatant, it's obvious.
Speaker 4: But it was just not so resentful that we were
Speaker 4: the ones that had to pick up the pieces of
Speaker 4: the campaigns and show people the true facts and why
Speaker 4: they should vote informed and why they shouldn't muck up
Speaker 4: this opportunity. It was so hard that our humanity was
Speaker 4: literally being debated on a national and even international scale,
Speaker 4: and it was so hard to just remind people that,
Speaker 4: you know, we are actually human beings, we are people.
Speaker 4: We're not just a constitutional amendment that you're just going
Speaker 4: to vote on on October.
Speaker 3: And I think, like you're so right in so many
Speaker 3: black colos, or people of color, or any marginalized or
Speaker 3: press group is so multifaceted that the idea of you know,
Speaker 3: placing yourself in some binary box like I'm this or
Speaker 3: I'm that was really hard for so many of us.
Speaker 1: And you're right, we had to like fight to have
Speaker 1: our our pleas heard, like we weren't. We weren't treated
Speaker 1: with any dignity. And I think, you know, I can see,
Speaker 1: I can see what happened and what led to this,
Speaker 1: and elders worked hard and they called for it, and
Speaker 1: it was perhaps the right thing to do to test,
Speaker 1: you know, unequivocally, like I said, where we're at. But
Speaker 1: I think maybe in the process, like because we are
Speaker 1: we are all in echo chambers. As you say, like that,
Speaker 1: the emotional damage that comes with something like this, I
Speaker 1: just wonder whether we could have had a wellbeing strategy.
Speaker 1: You know, we've employed elders in residents, you know, we
Speaker 1: had we had you know, community, you know, just to
Speaker 1: know that we were going to always be treated with
Speaker 1: such disdain from the colony. I think, looking back on it,
Speaker 1: maybe having some a well being focused on it in yeah,
Speaker 1: because I.
Speaker 2: Just I just feel like you know, I do not
Speaker 2: a grammar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like we were just just it was a really
Speaker 3: challenging time and we've we've navigated a pandemic, big civil
Speaker 3: rights movements, we're still navigating a lot of ills in
Speaker 3: this place, and then put that to be thrust upon us,
Speaker 3: and then now to have this result, and like you say,
Speaker 3: now where all the ones who are having to pick
Speaker 3: up all of these pieces?
Speaker 1: And it's it's a lot. I'm hearing a lot in
Speaker 1: my circles of such mixed feelings anger.
Speaker 3: You know, it's now turning into fuel to be able
Speaker 3: to continue to fight this place. A lot of people
Speaker 3: have now just retreated from it all entirely and taking
Speaker 3: steps back. A lot of sadness, you know, held space
Speaker 3: for a lot of big emotional conversations.
Speaker 1: So we're all just navigating this grief. But I think
Speaker 1: Benny Appintondalu said this on the podcast a while ago,
Speaker 1: and at the time I was like, hmm, But I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about it, and he's said that a no
Speaker 1: vote could be regenerative because it does show us where
Speaker 1: our energies and efforts lie. And often it's not sympathizing
Speaker 1: with the colonizer, it's really supporting the strength of our people.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think this is as hard and painful
Speaker 1: and saddening as it is, I do think that it
Speaker 1: shows us where we need to be and that's working,
Speaker 1: you know, without with our people, you know. With that
Speaker 1: in mind, I want to circle back to something you
Speaker 1: said before about when you were out doing these young
Speaker 1: you were talking about what a people want now and
Speaker 1: then what a people want beyond. I'd love to sort.
Speaker 3: Of talk a little bit about post referendum, you know,
Speaker 3: I feel, and I'm just I haven't really refined this thought,
Speaker 3: I guess, but I feel there are a lot of
Speaker 3: people are my family for instance, who are now like
Speaker 3: not willing to cooperate and they want to go into
Speaker 3: a guerrilla mode in the sense of like, you know,
Speaker 3: all right, you don't want to play fair in the place,
Speaker 3: in the same Pitt's let's play ball, And you know
Speaker 3: that that's their sort of ethos at the moment, and
Speaker 3: they they believe firmly that the only way that we
Speaker 3: could maybe see change now is through legislating things like
Speaker 3: the United Nations Declarations of Indigenous Rights, looking at how
Speaker 3: we can bolster up things like Native title and other legislation.
Speaker 1: That does exist, you know, in your work or in
Speaker 1: your conversations, or is there anything beyond the vote that
Speaker 1: we can do to yeah, work towards this mechanism through
Speaker 1: other channels, through legislation, through any changes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely. I feel something that I also noticed last week
Speaker 4: post referendum was the onflow of you know, the the
Speaker 4: apology emails, the the ongoing solidarity. We are so sorry
Speaker 4: that this has happened. We can't believe, we can't even
Speaker 4: imagine how you're feeling. You know, it was so burdensome
Speaker 4: to have to respond to those people. It was coming
Speaker 4: from a good place, I will admit, but having to
Speaker 4: respond to people apologizing for the colony and apologizing for
Speaker 4: what this nation has voted and you know, I went
Speaker 4: to an event last week where a white person got
Speaker 4: up and did their speech but cried at the start
Speaker 4: because of the referendums result. And I was just like,
Speaker 4: how selfish of you to do this when we have
Speaker 4: come into this space where we are not welcome. We
Speaker 4: are trying to carve out space in this colony. We're
Speaker 4: trying to be here, we're trying to stand up, we're
Speaker 4: trying to show up, and you cry, how selfish of you?
Speaker 4: So I feel like that really shone a light on
Speaker 4: you know. We don't want your apologies. We want action
Speaker 4: and to continue to keep this fire alive post October fifteenth.
Speaker 4: And so I think there's so many ways that we
Speaker 4: can approach moving forward. And as you say, recom sorry
Speaker 4: under an implementation is so important alongside our human rights.
Speaker 4: We need to have those in trined in you know,
Speaker 4: maybe legislation in a bill of rights. So many other
Speaker 4: countries have those, why don't we. There's nothing really safeguarding
Speaker 4: our basic human rights that is ridiculous. We need recommendations
Speaker 4: truly realized. From all the Royal commissions that we've seen happen,
Speaker 4: they're usually just a symbolic measure, but I feel like,
Speaker 4: you know, rickdict Royal Commission into Aboriginal deaths in Customy.
Speaker 4: Why don't we implement those they've been given to us.
Speaker 4: They are incredible recommendations to help protect our mob and
Speaker 4: to keep them out of prison and from dying at
Speaker 4: the hands of the colony. How about we realize those
Speaker 4: raising the age. That's such an easy thing for us
Speaker 4: to now campaign towards. Obviously not us mob, I know
Speaker 4: we do this on a daily basis, but getting allies
Speaker 4: around these campaigns, it would be great to see treaty
Speaker 4: and truth telling continued, the realization of a part of
Speaker 4: the all the real statement, that would be really important.
Speaker 4: I think treaty is going on around the country at
Speaker 4: the moment, and you know, look it might be halted
Speaker 4: in some places, perhaps because of the failed referendum, which
Speaker 4: I believe is absolutely disgusting. Down home, we've been trying
Speaker 4: to get a treaty for so long. We did have
Speaker 4: one back in back when the Colonis colonizers arrived. We
Speaker 4: signed one with Robinson and we've been trying to get
Speaker 4: that recognized since and it's so far we've had no
Speaker 4: luck with that. We've had a two legal experts two
Speaker 4: white legal experts rather report pathway to through treaty and
Speaker 4: truth selling, and that has gone nowhere. That was two
Speaker 4: years ago. Now we've been campaigning for this. Come on,
Speaker 4: this is your chance. We should be looking into a
Speaker 4: missing Immurdered Indigenous women inquiry. We need to be setting
Speaker 4: up formal bodies, to be having formal reporting mechanisms in place.
Speaker 4: This is something that is ignored completely in our nation.
Speaker 4: And you know in Canada we've have had a similar
Speaker 4: inquiry and we should be doing that here. You know,
Speaker 4: return native title, we don't have that entazi, but you
Speaker 4: know we need to be bolstering that up again, as
Speaker 4: you say, and protecting our children from being ripped away
Speaker 4: from families. That is as I said at the start,
Speaker 4: Literally we're witnessing a second stolen generation.
Speaker 2: What are we doing about it?
Speaker 4: So I feel like there's so many ways that we
Speaker 4: can fuel energy.
Speaker 1: Into Yeah, gosh, it's so.
Speaker 3: I think it's really comforting to hear that from a
Speaker 3: lawyer and somebody who is in this space, and it's
Speaker 3: useful to know. I mean, we as black fellows, we
Speaker 3: have resourceful and there are a lot of things that
Speaker 3: haven't been honored. As you said, Ricky Dieck, the bringing
Speaker 3: Them Home reports, you know, you name it, countless reports.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3: You know, mob have done an extensive body of work.
Speaker 3: I think in essence, the National Voice would have consolidated
Speaker 3: those efforts and given us a single point of contact
Speaker 3: into the government buyaut that. But now it just means
Speaker 3: we've got to go back to the drawing board and
Speaker 3: look at all of those things that have already been started.
Speaker 3: And yeah, things like what it's like saying raise the age,
Speaker 3: looking at the Human Rights Declaration, Bill of Rights, these
Speaker 3: are all things that we might have to continue to explore.
Speaker 3: It just means that maybe we'll be doing it a
Speaker 3: bit more piecemeal than what we probably envisaged.
Speaker 1: But we're still you know, this is the thing about
Speaker 1: you know, whatever has happened on October the fourteenth, and
Speaker 1: why I believe that, you know, the greatest threat to
Speaker 1: this colony is the fact that we are still here
Speaker 1: and we ain't going anywhere. So you know, we're only
Speaker 1: going to come back stronger, more resourced, and more I
Speaker 1: think more collegial.
Speaker 3: Because the Voice divided us like nothing I've ever seen before.
Speaker 3: And so I think that that notion that we're going to.
Speaker 1: Ever let a policy get in the way of MOB
Speaker 1: I think will change. I mean, what's your you know,
Speaker 1: the stats we were alarming because, as I said, all
Speaker 1: states voted no. I think from memory it's almost like
Speaker 1: eighty or seventy percent of Australian said no.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Something to that effect. Gosh, I could. I feel like
Speaker 1: I haven't really engaged with it.
Speaker 3: I feel like I sort of this sounds awful, but
Speaker 3: I kind of had to just disassociate from it.
Speaker 1: However, one of the main stats that I did see,
Speaker 1: which was around young people, and we had a huge
Speaker 1: amount of young Australians vote in the referendum for the
Speaker 1: first time, all to vote yeah exactly, which is incredible.
Speaker 3: Like I had family who have never voted to have voted,
Speaker 3: and so now they're on part of the democracy and
Speaker 3: so I think.
Speaker 1: That is promising.
Speaker 2: But you know, how how do you.
Speaker 3: I guess someone like you know the work you're doing
Speaker 3: now with NUMB how do we continue to create these
Speaker 3: spaces for people, and especially our young people to get informs?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: How do you think you can go about creating more
Speaker 3: spaces for this young generation to get informed so that
Speaker 3: they're not you know, that apathetic. You know, they're not
Speaker 3: apathetic at their latest stages of life.
Speaker 1: Do you have any ideas?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we were so scared at the beginning of our
Speaker 4: journey with NUAM because we, you know, we realized that
Speaker 4: these freshly eighteen year olds were deciding our humanity and
Speaker 4: you know, all they're worried about is, you know, what
Speaker 4: color they're going to wait at they're eighteen, but what
Speaker 4: what uni they're going to pick. But they're the people
Speaker 4: who's our lives that we're in there hands, and we
Speaker 4: were just petrified at that thought, which is something that
Speaker 4: really motivated us to get on board.
Speaker 2: So we were like, how many wors can we get to?
Speaker 4: This is so scary, But yeah, it was really special
Speaker 4: to see the incredible amount of young people in the
Speaker 4: road to vote this year. That was a really heartening thing.
Speaker 4: And to see how they voted. It was very much
Speaker 4: a yes vote from the young people. And someone actually
Speaker 4: said to me the other day, you know this means
Speaker 4: that and it's a pretty sad thing, but you know,
Speaker 4: we'll take what we can get at this point. It
Speaker 4: means that if something ever like this was to come
Speaker 4: up in our world, then young people will be in power.
Speaker 4: Then we'll be in safer hands. They've got us, they're
Speaker 4: going to look after us. They're on the right side
Speaker 4: of history. They're going to be our support that we need,
Speaker 4: the true allies that are on our side. And so
Speaker 4: you know that you can look at that both ways,
Speaker 4: but it gives us hope. And I think the most
Speaker 4: important thing that we can do in the time is,
Speaker 4: you know, it's an active protest to be engaging with
Speaker 4: black joy and just to look for the little glimpses
Speaker 4: of hope and happiness and laughter and fun and family
Speaker 4: and friends and all of that. You don't get that
Speaker 4: very often, so it's really important to just really demonstrate
Speaker 4: your black joy and show that you know, we are here.
Speaker 4: We are hurting, but we're going to keep standing up
Speaker 4: for this. I had people in my comments last week,
Speaker 4: you know, are you serious you're still talking about this?
Speaker 4: This this we voted this down last week, like, get
Speaker 4: over it, girl. I actually wasn't talking about it. It was
Speaker 4: from an old video number one, number two. Of course,
Speaker 4: I'm going to keep talking about it. We're all going
Speaker 4: to keep talking about this. This isn't going away. We're
Speaker 4: going to be here campaigning Indigenous and First Nations empowerment
Speaker 4: until you know, until the end, we're always going to
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, I mean, yeah, the goal, I mean,
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty five years of colonization in one
Speaker 1: week grace period.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but yeah, that's that's I mean, it's beautiful
Speaker 3: to hear you say that. I mean, black Joy, I
Speaker 3: do feel exactly the same as you.
Speaker 1: It's the biggest antidote to combat the colony and we
Speaker 1: do deserve to be wow s for you to.
Speaker 4: The colony, isn't it?
Speaker 1: It really is?
Speaker 3: And I think you know, it's also biggest f you
Speaker 3: to the colonizers for them to see us happy and well,
Speaker 3: because it's like, well, you know, their project failed.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's really I think what's really.
Speaker 3: Heartening to me in a way we're hearing you say
Speaker 3: that is that, you know, Annie Marcia Langton said that
Speaker 3: it's going to take about two generations now to see
Speaker 3: any change. That's kind of like I'll be an elder
Speaker 3: at that stage, which kind of blows my mind, and
Speaker 3: it's really is going like that level of change on
Speaker 3: the national scale is going to be now my children
Speaker 3: and their children and so you know, having these conversationations
Speaker 3: and spaces for young people to connect and.
Speaker 1: Learn about this is really helpful. And I also do
Speaker 1: just think they're just such a different generation to be
Speaker 1: open to really wanting to see what's right and fair
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 3: And you know, we don't have to look too far
Speaker 3: right now to see how harmful these systems of you know,
Speaker 3: long standing colonial oppression can be. You know, thinking of
Speaker 3: people in Palestine right now who have experienced, you know,
Speaker 3: seventy five years of complete occupation and genocide, and you know,
Speaker 3: I could just think if we really have to wake
Speaker 3: up as people now and we can't be sleeping at
Speaker 3: the wheel.
Speaker 1: The power and the control and domination hasn't worked for.
Speaker 3: Anyone, and so it really is over to this next
Speaker 3: generation now to continue to fight this fight. And you
Speaker 3: know what we as you say, Sis, you know, we
Speaker 3: we're down, but we're not defeated. We are not defeated,
Speaker 3: and we will probably.
Speaker 1: Come that stronger in a way and much more resourceful.
Speaker 2: We always do, we always do.
Speaker 4: Annie Jackie, Annie Jackie Huggins said, I remember she was
Speaker 4: a no, and she flipped to a yes because this
Speaker 4: is the last time in her lifetime that she'll see
Speaker 4: something like this, and how is she going to stand
Speaker 4: by and watch this happen and not support it? And
Speaker 4: I just I remember it so much to this day,
Speaker 4: because that's going to be, as you say, when you
Speaker 4: will be an elder and you'll be in this position
Speaker 4: of authority and power in our communities and maybe we'll
Speaker 4: get another opportunity. Maybe, but that's up for the young
Speaker 4: people to come with us on that journey and listen
Speaker 4: to us. You can't be calling the shots, you can't
Speaker 4: be making things that suit your settler, colonial or agenda.
Speaker 4: You need to come with us on this journey and
Speaker 4: listen to what we need and want. That's the most
Speaker 4: important thing. And I think these young people do so
Speaker 4: passionate and so ready to learn and engage.
Speaker 2: You know, these are the people.
Speaker 4: These are the Shama Like environmental Case Award people. You know,
Speaker 4: these are the people that are so passionate about climate justice.
Speaker 4: And I feel like we can bring them on our journey.
Speaker 4: I feel like we've always had kind of allies in
Speaker 4: the environmental space. You know, we're always really close with
Speaker 4: the greens, and they're always really empowering of us. And
Speaker 4: I feel like that's what the young people are worried
Speaker 4: about at the moment. It's the climate and global warming
Speaker 4: and what they can do to help, and let's bring
Speaker 4: them along.
Speaker 1: That's what I say, absolutely, And you know what, I've
Speaker 1: got great confidence with people like you helping to bring
Speaker 1: young people together. And yeah, I just want to thank
Speaker 1: you for all of your labor in all of this it.
Speaker 1: You know, we're very much as you're listening to this
Speaker 1: episode today, you know, we're really a week out of
Speaker 1: this process, and so we're very much trying to make
Speaker 1: sense of it. We're trying to process it, we're trying
Speaker 1: to gather and survive. And so I think this will
Speaker 1: be something that will be discussed for months and years
Speaker 1: to come. And I want to ask you one final
Speaker 1: question before I let you go, which is you mentioned
Speaker 1: you know black joy? Black joy is a value with
Speaker 1: us at Black Wattle. You know, you're a lawyer, you're
Speaker 1: a campaigner, you're active astecuity member.
Speaker 3: How do you find time for joy? What does it
Speaker 3: look like for you? How do you find time to
Speaker 3: balance it all.
Speaker 4: I'm very much a soul ordered girl.
Speaker 2: I love the.
Speaker 4: Ocean and I love just sitting still near nature and
Speaker 4: the ocean, and so I feel like a lot of
Speaker 4: my free time, if I do get it, as you say,
Speaker 4: is spent surfing or just being near the beach. I
Speaker 4: like to practice mindfulness as much as I can in nature,
Speaker 4: and just being outside is just such an active joy
Speaker 4: for me. And I'm just trying, as you say, we're
Speaker 4: still processing this referendum, and you know, I might seem
Speaker 4: okay today, but I'll probably wake up tomorrow and be
Speaker 4: wreck That's just the reality of it. So I'm just
Speaker 4: trying to sit still and be with those feelings and
Speaker 4: feel it all and just go on that journey to
Speaker 4: see where I need to go and what I need
Speaker 4: to feel to be okay in the colony and beyond
Speaker 4: this referendum. You need to continue to be strong and
Speaker 4: stand up for your community and what they need. And
Speaker 4: I don't have a choice but to just keep going.
Speaker 4: We can't just take a day off or a week
Speaker 4: off to mourn this thing. We got to keep going.
Speaker 4: This is literally a fight that will last our lives
Speaker 4: and hope, sadly for long beyond that. I'm sad to say,
Speaker 4: but you know, just sitting in that and trying to
Speaker 4: take time for yourself is.
Speaker 2: Something that I really valiant of.
Speaker 4: Of course, you know, putting on your favorite songs and
Speaker 4: having a bit of a dance. That's my guilty pleasure
Speaker 4: at the moment.
Speaker 3: No, that's beautiful to hear.
Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're always trying to do our best in the colony
Speaker 1: to look after ourselves. Some days it's easy, someday it
Speaker 1: ain't easy. Some days we have it, sometimes we don't.
Speaker 1: But it's beautiful to hear you share that. And I
Speaker 1: think it's also beautiful that we're.
Speaker 3: Just out here normalizing some of these conversations, because yeah,
Speaker 3: as we navigate these waves, we do need to give
Speaker 3: ourselves permission to just step out of the arena when
Speaker 3: we need to to come back into the arena.
Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3: And the last thing, Sorry, I know I said the
Speaker 3: last thing before, but one thing I want to just
Speaker 3: call out. You know you mentioned before about you know,
Speaker 3: allies and feeling helpless and sorry and sad for them.
Speaker 1: You know all of this. I want to say that
Speaker 1: if you are an ally and you're listening to this
Speaker 1: episode right now, there is one thing that you can
Speaker 1: do in this moment. You can do it as you're walking.
Speaker 3: Maybe not if you're driving pull over, but you know
Speaker 3: I want you to just let's don't do that. Just
Speaker 3: don't be bulling it at your phone, but get out
Speaker 3: your phone type in pay the rent. You know, we've
Speaker 3: got amazing grassroots organization who works directly with families on
Speaker 3: Grandmothers against force removal, so having children removed from.
Speaker 1: A state deusing custody. Someone has an issue, which we've
Speaker 1: just had recently in the last days after the referendum,
Speaker 1: we sadly have lost another young person and these these
Speaker 1: groups work with the families directly to get them to courts,
Speaker 1: to get them to their legal supports, get them food.
Speaker 1: So you can go onto your phone and put pay
Speaker 1: the rent five dollars a month, the same amount of
Speaker 1: as you pay for your coffee or you know, whatever
Speaker 1: it is that you're splurging money on to be able
Speaker 1: to actually put some reparations and money back into community.
Speaker 1: Because at the moment, and that is a vehicle, you
Speaker 1: don't go down to see your local traditional owner group,
Speaker 1: introduce yourself. You know, if you don't have any if
Speaker 1: you don't have five dollars, time is tough.
Speaker 3: Do you have an hour a month that you can
Speaker 3: provide some back of house support.
Speaker 1: We really need communities supporting communities in communities of care
Speaker 1: right now. And you might think, oh, I haven't got
Speaker 1: anything to contribute, but it might be you know, one
Speaker 1: hour of labor or five dollars a month that could
Speaker 1: really go such a long way. What do you have
Speaker 1: any tips? Fali?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's also sharing and engaging with black content on social media.
Speaker 4: If yeah, we're all time poor, we're all poor poor,
Speaker 4: but you use your phones so regularly, how about you
Speaker 4: just start to think about the accounts and the people
Speaker 4: that you're following and switch the mindset to be like,
Speaker 4: who can I empower today? Who can whose content can
Speaker 4: I share? And elevate their voice in a system that's
Speaker 4: trying to make black people less as we have just seen.
Speaker 4: So this is your opportunity to just you know, check
Speaker 4: a follow, like a post, share a real It's super
Speaker 4: easy and obviously above all support black businesses that is, yeah,
Speaker 4: but you're so.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Who can I empower today?
Speaker 3: Is a really great way to frame it, and it
Speaker 3: really takes you nothing. And the sad reality is is
Speaker 3: that where three percent of the population will never have
Speaker 3: the influence and reach online than what you know female
Speaker 3: sexp birth white women have for instance, So really elevating
Speaker 3: our voices online. There are three very simple things you
Speaker 3: can do right now, like after you finished this episode, So.
Speaker 1: Do it now, Do it now.
Speaker 3: There's no time like the present.
Speaker 1: Subscribe to this podcast and go follow all the amazing
Speaker 1: Maggie's doing and none law school. Since it's been great
Speaker 1: to talk to you today as we navigate this wild.
Speaker 3: Thing we call life.
Speaker 1: At the moment, I just want to say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you your time, your labor, and your love.
Speaker 4: So thank you, thank you so much, and thank you
Speaker 4: for creating space for us to come and chat. And yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm through these impossible things that we're having.
Speaker 2: To deal with.
Speaker 4: It's almost even just a sign of healing just to
Speaker 4: chat through these things as we know where Yeah, oral
Speaker 4: traditional people, this is our chance to just talk through
Speaker 4: some tricky things that we're dealing with at the moment.
Speaker 1: So thank you anytime. I can't wait to have you
Speaker 1: back to see what's next in store for you. Where
Speaker 1: can people go and follow you along?
Speaker 2: I've got Instagram, Muggi, Muggi.
Speaker 4: It's hard to spell. I actually don't know how to
Speaker 4: spell it. Every time I have to like every time
Speaker 4: I'm not like a conference or that somewhere out and they're.
Speaker 2: Like, what's your hat?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, I'm going to have to get
Speaker 4: up my phone.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to spell.
Speaker 4: MUGGIGGI I think it's double oh one gee. And then
Speaker 4: we'll views the same. But lots of these you'll find me,
Speaker 4: and then you've got no. I'm last in some voice,
Speaker 4: which we love your support for. We're on all the socials.
Speaker 4: TikTok is where we get the most hate, so come
Speaker 4: play with us there of course.
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful. We'll link all of these details in the
Speaker 3: show notes as well, so you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Try to put Moggie. We'll get into your notes.
Speaker 2: First time.
Speaker 4: Didn't get as much hate from the settlers, but they
Speaker 4: found me.
Speaker 3: Don't worry well, Maggie slash wu Willie. It was great
Speaker 3: to chat with you today. I appreciate you and all
Speaker 3: the best, my fish.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening you mob. If you
Speaker 1: are fiving this season of Yarning Up, then please head
Speaker 1: over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts
Speaker 1: from to show us some love, rate and review. Alternatively,
Speaker 1: you can get in contact and give us some feedback
Speaker 1: by visiting www. Dot Caroline Cool dot com, dot a