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Speaker 1: Well, we have spoken about it quite extensively, you know,

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Speaker 1: the cost of living and the way in which we're

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Speaker 1: impacted in so many different ways. But it is being

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Speaker 1: reported by the ABC this morning that Alan Fells the

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Speaker 1: act Us initiated Price Gouging Report will calls for the

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Speaker 1: government to act against practices exploitative practices of big businesses. Now,

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Speaker 1: to just take you through some of what has been reported, banks, supermarkets,

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Speaker 1: aviation and energy companies are exploiting their market power in

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Speaker 1: ways that drive up inflation and hurt Australian households. That's

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Speaker 1: according to the former chair of the Australian Competition and

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Speaker 1: Consumer Commission. Now, this report by Alan Fels found that

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Speaker 1: rising prices were not just caused by true inflation, but

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Speaker 1: often by greed, corporate gouging and profit pushing by companies

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Speaker 1: with too much market power. Now, the Blistering Report also

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Speaker 1: stated that excessive pricing is not unlawful in Australia and

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Speaker 1: called for the government to act, especially as many Australians

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Speaker 1: struggle with the cost of living pressures. There are parts

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Speaker 1: of the report as well that refer to Northern Australia

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Speaker 1: and you know the high cost that we face here

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Speaker 1: in Northern Australia. Now joining us on the line right

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Speaker 1: now is the NT Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, Tracy Keys.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Tracy.

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Speaker 3: Good mining Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show now. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if you've had the opportunity to have much of

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Speaker 1: a read through of this report, but I mean, what

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Speaker 1: do you make of the findings.

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Speaker 3: Alison, Katie. I think it's welcome and I think for

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Speaker 3: territorians it's heartening these issues are starting to be looked

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Speaker 3: at because I think territorians are particularly impacted by many

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Speaker 3: of the issues raised by this report.

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Speaker 1: Certainly like when you look at things like you know,

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Speaker 1: like our cost to travel into different parts of Australia,

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Speaker 1: when you look at our at the cost of food

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Speaker 1: and transporting goods and that kind of thing to the territory.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of different ways that we are impacted.

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Speaker 3: And particularly I think the issue about market positions. So

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Speaker 3: one of the issues for the Northern Territory is the

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Speaker 3: lack of competition here. So the issues that Alan Fels

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Speaker 3: talks about in his report are particularly significant in a

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Speaker 3: small jurisdiction like the Northern Territory and particularly for those

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Speaker 3: living in remote and rural Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're so spot on there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we worry here in Darwin and places like

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs, but then when you go more rural and

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Speaker 1: more remote, it gets even more difficult, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: It does, And I think one of the things that's

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Speaker 3: welcome in this report is to actually start considering how

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Speaker 3: the law could better address excessive pricing. At the moment,

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Speaker 3: the law addresses collusion, which is extremely difficult to prove,

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Speaker 3: and his suggestions that maybe the law should start to

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Speaker 3: look at what power the atriple sea could have in

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Speaker 3: relation to excessive pricing, particularly in the absence of other

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Speaker 3: factors that might be driving it up.

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Speaker 1: So, Tracy, from your perspective, in your role as the

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Speaker 1: Commissioner of Consumer Affairs here in the Northern Territory, what

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Speaker 1: are some of the more practical ways do you think

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Speaker 1: that this report will sort of be utilized to try

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Speaker 1: and help territories?

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Speaker 3: So I think one way it's actually an important education tool.

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Speaker 3: I think in times of economic stress, people are assuming

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Speaker 3: that the reason why prices are high is inflation. This report,

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Speaker 3: I think quite clearly sets out that that's not always

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Speaker 3: the case. That does mean for consumers, particularly when it's

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Speaker 3: non essential goods, that maybe they can exercise their consumer

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Speaker 3: power and society either not to purchase or to shop around.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit more difficult when we're talking essential services,

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Speaker 3: and I think the action in that space is probably

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Speaker 3: more political, you know.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about things like fuel, groceries, flights. I

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Speaker 1: guess we've just reached the point too in the territory

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Speaker 1: where we go, oh, well, you know, it's gone up.

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Speaker 1: There's not a lot we can do about it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct. Well, certainly one of the things you

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Speaker 3: can do in relation to the fuel. One of the

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Speaker 3: things we do is we actually have an app that

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Speaker 3: you can download called my Fuel and t that allows

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Speaker 3: you to shop around and see where the cheapest fuel

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Speaker 3: is in your area. And that's something that we keep

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Speaker 3: close eye on, so we do go out and check

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Speaker 3: that what's on our app reflects what is actually at

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Speaker 3: the fuel pump, and people have comment to us that

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Speaker 3: that's actually quite a useful tool to use in terms

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Speaker 3: of managing fuel prices. Certainly with other things there are

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Speaker 3: sort of groceries, there are apps around that people can

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Speaker 3: use to see where the cheapest products are. I think

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Speaker 3: one of the things in the report is that actually

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Speaker 3: identifies the particular items that have really gone up in

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Speaker 3: the last few years. So I think part of that

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Speaker 3: is family thinking about where they spend their money and

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Speaker 3: what items perhaps are more affordable at the moment. And

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Speaker 3: luckily one of those is fruit and vegetables certainly not

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Speaker 3: going to suggest they're cheap at the moment, that may

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Speaker 3: be cheaper than some other products.

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Speaker 1: Now on that fuel and look, we go on the

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Speaker 1: my fuel app pretty well daily. I try to read

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Speaker 1: out the prices for our listeners most days. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things that has been noted actually in recent

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Speaker 1: days or recent weeks, is that there's a few servos

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Speaker 1: towards the city that are offering those petrol prices much

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Speaker 1: cheaper than what they are out in the likes of

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Speaker 1: Palmerston and the rural area, like twenty cents cheaper. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like what options you know, if you live out in

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Speaker 1: the rural area and and you know it's more expensive

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Speaker 1: for you then to be traveling into town to get

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Speaker 1: that petrol, what options do people have? I suppose, because

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Speaker 1: it's kind of what we're talking about in this report.

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Speaker 3: It's a difficult issue, Katie, because I think that you're

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Speaker 3: right that it's too expensive for people to travel into

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Speaker 3: town to top up. I guess if people are coming

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Speaker 3: into town, that would be the time to top up,

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Speaker 3: because they are competitive forces that drive the pricing of

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Speaker 3: that petrol. But I guess this is one of the

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Speaker 3: issues that Allen Fells identifies in this report, is that

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Speaker 3: there were laws that would enable the A Triple C

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Speaker 3: to actually look at excessive pricing. It would mean that

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Speaker 3: petrol stations out in those rural areas would have to

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Speaker 3: demonstrate why the increase in that price, and if it's

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Speaker 3: not able to justify that it's because of taxes or

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Speaker 3: freight or other costs, then there might actually be something

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Speaker 3: that the A Triple C can do to bring those

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Speaker 3: prices down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it seems odd not just looking at petrol,

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Speaker 1: but even when you look at things like groceries, and

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Speaker 1: when you look at stuff like those those flight prices,

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems odd that we're not already able

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Speaker 1: to have the A Triple C look at some of

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Speaker 1: that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree, and I think that's what's welcome about

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Speaker 3: this report is they are practical things that we need

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Speaker 3: to be available. But it also means that providers of

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Speaker 3: essential services are aware that there is that accountability framework

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Speaker 3: and they're less likely to do it. So it's not

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Speaker 3: just the direct compliance. It would be important if this

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Speaker 3: change would occur.

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Speaker 1: Was there any other sort of standouts in the report

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Speaker 1: from your perspective for the territory.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the obvious ones was the freight

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Speaker 3: issue in terms of the remote communities, and there's only

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Speaker 3: one provider predominantly in the Northern Territory and the risk

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Speaker 3: that that's increasing prices to those communities. I would welcome

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Speaker 3: any review or further inquiry into how that could be

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Speaker 3: changed now.

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Speaker 1: With this report, because I guess sometimes you know, you

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Speaker 1: sort of feel like a really worthy report comes out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the cost of living something that Ossie's had

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Speaker 1: been screaming out about for quite some time. But quite

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Speaker 1: often you feel like a report comes out, there's recommendations,

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Speaker 1: and then it feels like nothing really comes of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that everybody is hoping that we

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Speaker 1: do see some change as a result of this, and.

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Speaker 3: Listen, there are a number of things happening at the moment,

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Speaker 3: Katie that will link into this report, so I would

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Speaker 3: have high expectations that this report will be the subject

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Speaker 3: of many conversations and discussions about future reform. So some

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Speaker 3: of the things happening at the moment are the review

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Speaker 3: of the Food and Grocery Code. One of the suggestions

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Speaker 3: made in this report is to make it compulsory. The

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Speaker 3: A Triple C being directed to do an investigation into prices.

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Speaker 3: There's also a Senate inquiry on supermarket prices at the moment,

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Speaker 3: and we're expecting a report on the seventh of May

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Speaker 3: this year. And the A Triple C is currently reviewing

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Speaker 3: and undertaking consultation on unfair business practices, So potentially some

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Speaker 3: of the material from this report could be covered in

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Speaker 3: that review. And the intention of that was to look

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Speaker 3: at whether there could be amendments to stray and consumer

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Speaker 3: law to better protect these issues.

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Speaker 1: And from your perspective locally, as the Commissioner of Consumer

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Speaker 1: Affairs here in the Northern Territory, is it anything from

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Speaker 1: the report that you are specifically going to be looking

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Speaker 1: at and you know, potentially making change implementing In the end.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing in the report that enables me to make

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Speaker 3: change here in the Northern Territory. I would see my

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Speaker 3: role is that I would be one of the people

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Speaker 3: at the table talking federally, yeah, about what reform could happen,

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Speaker 3: And obviously I would be there advocating for the needs

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Speaker 3: and issues that territorians are facing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which we need, don't we.

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Speaker 1: I mean we need someone like you at the table,

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Speaker 1: particularly even when you're talking about some of those issues remotely,

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Speaker 1: and that I'm sure the issues that you probably hear

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Speaker 1: about daily.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and one of the common concerns that is raised

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Speaker 3: for us is actually the cost of essential services out

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Speaker 3: in remote community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Gee, it is tough for a lot of people

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: And I think seeing this report it does it does

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Speaker 1: just sort of you know, cement for a lot of

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Speaker 1: us that you go, oh, I felt like that's the case,

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Speaker 1: but now I've actually got it.

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Speaker 2: Confirm that that is what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Well, I really appreciate your time this morning, Tracy Keys,

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Commissioner of and Humor Affairs.

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Speaker 2: Lovely to speak with you, my pleasure, Katie. Thank you