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Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Tony

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Speaker 2: Lodge and joining me for another shot back money Diary

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Speaker 2: is Victoria Divine. Welcome, Party Time, Party Time.

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Speaker 3: Always very excited about this money Diary.

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Speaker 2: So this money Diary is one we've actually had in

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Speaker 2: the works for a little while now, and after you and.

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Speaker 3: Our Money Diarist, yes, I am literally every single time.

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Speaker 2: Forget that it's anonymous.

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Speaker 3: She sent like a prize to me this week. I

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Speaker 3: actually know this person, which I'm very excited about. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's very cool.

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Speaker 2: So the two of you have been chatting over Instagram

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Speaker 2: and we thought this is such a great opportunity to

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Speaker 2: get them on the podcast and have a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a chat. So, without any further ado, I am

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Speaker 2: going to read the email.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: Hi, She's on the Money. I'm a twenty six year

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Speaker 2: old living in New South Wales. I work at an

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Speaker 2: ASX listed company in diversity and inclusion and I'm currently

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Speaker 2: a postgraduate student studying public health. I've been at my

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Speaker 2: company for three and a half years. I started in

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Speaker 2: the call center when I finished my honors degree and

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Speaker 2: have since worked my way up also ex fancy fancy. Historically,

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Speaker 2: I'm a big spender and oftentimes experience the urge to

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Speaker 2: spend cash the moment it hits my account. This has

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Speaker 2: previously seeing me in almost ten K worth of personal

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Speaker 2: debt due to a deep seated desire to keep up

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Speaker 2: with those around me in terms of nights out and

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Speaker 2: material items. Thankfully, I'm now debt free, woo. With the

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Speaker 2: exception of my help debt, I have savings in the

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Speaker 2: bank and I'm working hard to ensure I can afford

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Speaker 2: to move to Sydney next year, as well as a

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Speaker 2: gender affirming surgery so I can get closer to being

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Speaker 2: my authentic self. Seek amazing, Annie drist you're here and

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Speaker 2: you got them on the line.

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Speaker 4: Of course, Hey how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, we.

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Speaker 3: Are so good and so excited we get to chat

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Speaker 3: with you. How about we just get straight into the

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Speaker 3: questions and then we can get into the pervy stuff

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Speaker 3: and the kneedy gritty a little bit later.

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Speaker 4: Sounds great, Let's get started.

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Speaker 3: We are so excited, all right, So what is your

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Speaker 3: attitude towards money?

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Speaker 4: It's changed a lot, I think in the last eighteen

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Speaker 4: months or so since the start of the pandemic, I've

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Speaker 4: been pretty conscientious about knuckling down and putting some money away.

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Speaker 4: Prior to that, I've stated in my money dires a

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Speaker 4: little update there, I was pretty frivolous and any chance

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Speaker 4: to head out, have a good mail update, the wardrobe,

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Speaker 4: anything really fair. Yeah, I was pretty pretty keen to

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Speaker 4: let go of the money, whereas now I'm and you know,

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Speaker 4: building that little mess is pretty important. My partner works

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Speaker 4: in hospitality, so at the start of COVID, it became

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Speaker 4: pretty apparent that given that my job was stable and

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Speaker 4: I was able to work from home, wanted to make

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Speaker 4: sure we were nice and safe. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's such a shock that so many

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Speaker 3: of us went through during that, and like lots of

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Speaker 3: us have partners who are in hospitality or like retail

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Speaker 3: that needed to close, and that's such a space that's like, well,

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Speaker 3: if the work's not there, like you can't just do

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Speaker 3: it online, you can't just do it from home. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: like you being in the role that you're in, very secure,

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Speaker 3: very nice, very COVID safe, very COVID safe. All right,

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Speaker 3: So next question is what do you do for work

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Speaker 3: and how much money do you earn?

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Speaker 4: So I work in human resources as a diversity and

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Speaker 4: inclusion specialist, So it's a lot of mapping. It a

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Speaker 4: lot of mapping out what folks from different underrepresented groups

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Speaker 4: may need in terms of additional support, and that can

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Speaker 4: also extend to our clients too, so looking at making

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Speaker 4: sure that forms, as an example, would be inclusive with

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Speaker 4: things like gender neutral titles, or making sure that people

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Speaker 4: feel comfortable to talk about general affirming care as well

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Speaker 4: as First Nations health type stuff. In terms of what

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Speaker 4: I earn, I'm on seventy one thousand a year.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 2: That would be a fairly new type of role for

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Speaker 2: such a big company. Like in your money diary email

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Speaker 2: you mentioned it's ASX listed, so I'm guessing it's quite

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Speaker 2: a high profile thing that would be quite a new

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Speaker 2: addition to their company. Surely someone that is dealing with,

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Speaker 2: you know, like inclusion and things like.

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Speaker 5: That or absolutely.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, I'm the first person with this position at

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Speaker 4: my company, and I definitely think that Prior to COVID

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Speaker 4: nineteen and of course we've staw with Black Lives Matter

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Speaker 4: in the US. Unfortunately, obviously we've experienced what was disparity

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Speaker 4: in Australia in terms of our race relations far beyond

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Speaker 4: last year. So I think, as you know, higher profile

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Speaker 4: organizations looked what was happening in the States and how

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Speaker 4: they were configuring some of their organizational structures to include folk,

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Speaker 4: you know, working with equity and inclusion for their employees.

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Speaker 4: I think we've sort of started increasingly now often on

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Speaker 4: LA LinkedIn and Seek you'll see positions for this kind

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Speaker 4: of work come up much more regularly. But prior to

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Speaker 4: sort of twelve eighteen months ago something your organizations definitely

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Speaker 4: had it. But I think I think it is pretty

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Speaker 4: new in the Australian sort of recruitment market space. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's really interesting.

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Speaker 3: Off off topic, but like similar, I used to work

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Speaker 3: in organizational development and org psyche and one of the

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Speaker 3: other business units that would work beside us was diversity

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Speaker 3: and inclusion, and like that was all well and good,

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Speaker 3: but I just feel like we are leaps and bounds

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Speaker 3: head of where the conversations that I remember having and

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Speaker 3: this is like six seven years ago, I remember them

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Speaker 3: having because it was very much like women focused and

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Speaker 3: I'd always been like great, like cool, like as a

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Speaker 3: female like in the workplace. They had a lot of

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Speaker 3: things like a women in leadership program and stuff, And

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Speaker 3: I just feel like we are actually now talking about

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Speaker 3: true diversity and true inclusion, not just like the topical

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Speaker 3: things that the CEO has been like, oh, yeah, we

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Speaker 3: should do something about diversity. Diversity is women and men, right, Like, no,

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Speaker 3: that's not just it. So I just I feel like

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Speaker 3: it's so cool that we're now in this space where

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Speaker 3: we're having true conversations about inclusion and what that really

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Speaker 3: means and how to make people feel truly included. And

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Speaker 3: in a way, it baffles me that it hasn't come

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Speaker 3: up earlier than that, Like how is it to change

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Speaker 3: things like forms to just make people feel comfortable? Why

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Speaker 3: didn't we do that years ago?

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Speaker 4: So yeah, and I think that women be men component

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Speaker 4: for a long time. And Vitory notice all too well.

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Speaker 4: Like with your finance background, a lot of it does

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Speaker 4: come down to things like corporate governance and what's required

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Speaker 4: from investors and clients all of the organization in terms

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Speaker 4: of what metrics look like, and it's not actually powered

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Speaker 4: by the employees or the members or consumers you know

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Speaker 4: that are directly impacted by the landscape of the organization.

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Speaker 4: So it's good that there's been a little bit of

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Speaker 4: a flip towards the people in terms of inclusion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like I love you, know, knowing

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Speaker 3: you and knowing who you are and what you do

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Speaker 3: in the role that you're in. I just feel like

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Speaker 3: you're going to bring so much more value than you

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Speaker 3: know looking back on it, and I'm not saying there

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Speaker 3: was anything bad, but those people that were in those

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Speaker 3: roles were middle aged men. But at the time it

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Speaker 3: seemed really normal to me and really fine, and it

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Speaker 3: was just a thing right. And now I'm like, you

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Speaker 3: are a true voice that knows what people are going

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Speaker 3: through and has gone through that adversity and can see

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Speaker 3: it and feel it and you know, really advise on

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Speaker 3: what are the best steps for that, because who would

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Speaker 3: know better than someone who is going through it and

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Speaker 3: knows and knows what to look for. I think that

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Speaker 3: that's really cool. But back on money diary questions, what

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Speaker 3: is currently your big money goal?

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Speaker 4: So it's a dual purpose goal. It's moving to Sydney.

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Speaker 4: So I'm two hours north at the moment, and I'd

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Speaker 4: like to move down to Sydney to open up some

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Speaker 4: opportunities in terms of my studies, as Tony said, looking

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Speaker 4: at public health, particularly interested in things like harm reduction

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Speaker 4: and working with trans and gender diverse.

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Speaker 5: Communities culturally withstically.

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Speaker 4: Diverse communities, first nations, people in a health sort of setting,

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Speaker 4: and Sydney definitely opens up a lot more opportunities for that.

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Speaker 4: And I'm also looking to have gender affirming surgery, so

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Speaker 4: top surgery, and that's something that whilst there are surgeons

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Speaker 4: where I live that do perform that procedure, Sydney definitely has,

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Speaker 4: you know, more of a history or longevity there in

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Speaker 4: terms of results that are really great. I'm a larger

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Speaker 4: person and some of the surgeons down there definitely combat

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Speaker 4: class size a little bit better.

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Speaker 3: I think they're really exciting, but they also sound like

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Speaker 3: really expensive goals. And I'm going to ask a few

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Speaker 3: pervy questions in a minute, but let's keep on track, Tony.

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Speaker 3: Do you currently invest.

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Speaker 5: I do so savvy?

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Speaker 4: Oh gosh. Part of my company is yeah. So every

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Speaker 4: year I've been with my company, I've invested in their

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Speaker 4: shares as part of the employee share programs.

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Speaker 3: Small. That is good, very smart.

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Speaker 2: You should start something like that here for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that sounds good. Let's talk about it later. So,

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Speaker 3: next question, do you have any debts?

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Speaker 4: Yes, a big help debt. I logged onto Ato when

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Speaker 4: I did my tax this week and sitting at a

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Speaker 4: tasty forty one thousand.

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Speaker 3: Oh nice, you could buy a lot for forty one dollars. Well,

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Speaker 3: they already did their education. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yes, let's not think about our help dead as something

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Speaker 2: that goes nowhere. We've learned from from.

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Speaker 3: That financial advice here, like we've all right. Next question

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Speaker 3: is a very important question because we've started only asking

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Speaker 3: this question very recently on the podcast, and that is

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Speaker 3: do you use shop back?

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Speaker 4: I've downloaded the app, but I haven't good good first step?

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Speaker 3: Did you at least use our code and get ten bucks?

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Speaker 4: I feel like it was it was pre She's on

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Speaker 4: the money shot back.

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Speaker 5: It was like it was an old school.

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Speaker 4: One, like can I change up the email and try

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Speaker 4: again for the money?

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Speaker 3: You totally couldn't get ten We're not actually promoting that

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Speaker 3: right now. We've just decided to start asking it because

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Speaker 3: it actually is so pervy how much money people can

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Speaker 3: actually get back and asking you like what's your best purchase?

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Speaker 3: Like I had a girlfriend message me the other day

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Speaker 3: and she's like, yep, cool, needed a new tumble dry

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Speaker 3: and washing machine and got it back and like got

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Speaker 3: it in the middle of the sales and got like

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Speaker 3: more than two hundred dollars back or something ridiculous, And

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Speaker 3: I was like.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, what I just always forget?

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Speaker 3: You know, I never remember either. I'm useless. So I

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Speaker 3: hope that I can learn something by asking this question.

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Speaker 3: Moving forward, what is your best money habit?

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Speaker 4: I think knowing I got to a point where and

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Speaker 4: you went to let go. I have a partner. I've

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Speaker 4: been with my partner since I was nineteen. You very cute.

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Speaker 4: For the first few years, they let me go very

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Speaker 4: rogue on the.

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Speaker 5: Cash fun oh thanks, and.

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Speaker 4: We have separate finances. But they let me go rogue personally.

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Speaker 4: And you know, before I dug myself into too big

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Speaker 4: of a ditch, they were definitely there.

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Speaker 5: To provide support.

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Speaker 4: And I guess I back myself now in knowing that

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Speaker 4: you know it is okay to ask for help when

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Speaker 4: it comes to money, and when they were able to

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Speaker 4: provide me that support aka popping at the time, probably

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Speaker 4: fifty or one hundred dollars into an account that I

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Speaker 4: couldn't see just so that I could pay for things

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Speaker 4: like my phone bills. And I know this is like

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Speaker 4: a really roundabout way to ask that question. But since

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Speaker 4: then asking from help from my partner, then being able

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Speaker 4: to have conversations with colleagues and friends, and then getting

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Speaker 4: into things like she's on the money through simply ask

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Speaker 4: being able to ask for help, I've then being able

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Speaker 4: to create these like really important foundations to be better

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Speaker 4: at money. So if anyone can muster it within themselves

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Speaker 4: to ask for help or seek help, I think that's

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Speaker 4: a really good money skill to have because sometimes you

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Speaker 4: do it alone.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, so you're so special.

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Speaker 2: Your best money habit is that you're willing to openly

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Speaker 2: talk about your finances, which is amazing.

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Speaker 3: That's such a good Absolutely, what's your worst money habit?

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Speaker 4: The compulsion to spend money as soon as it gets

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Speaker 4: my bank account. Yeah, like I know the hour, the minute,

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Speaker 4: the hour of the minute that that money is dropping

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Speaker 4: into the account. And thankfully now I've been able to

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Speaker 4: supersped for the most part that urge by transferring it

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Speaker 4: into different accounts.

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Speaker 5: So maybe it jump is let's go yeh jog jumpers.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, But Yeah, it's you know, it's a bit of

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Speaker 4: an addiction and compulsion for a lot of folk and

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Speaker 4: people with anxiety and different mental health concerns. And I

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Speaker 4: guess it's a bad habit, but it's also one that's

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Speaker 4: pretty hard wired in there, so you have to try

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Speaker 4: and reroute it by moving it into differ accounts that.

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Speaker 5: You can't touch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard when you get that dopamine rush from

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Speaker 2: being like, oh, yeah, I'm going to buy something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and like you were just saying money darist almost use

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Speaker 2: your real name, man that. Yeah, I definitely feel that

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Speaker 2: when I'm really anxious, I think I just want to

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Speaker 2: buy something really nice for myself. For if I'm having

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Speaker 2: like a bad flare up of OCD, which I suffer from,

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Speaker 2: Like I just think, oh, I just need to buy

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Speaker 2: something nice make myself feel better. So I totally feel you.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's lots of people that feel the

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Speaker 2: same way as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is a struggle we can actually I've

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Speaker 3: got a few questions about that in that space. After

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Speaker 3: so I'm going to ask the next question, which is

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Speaker 3: what grade would you give yourself if I forced you

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Speaker 3: to give yourself a grade?

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Speaker 2: A bee nice, so straight to the point, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: That's fair?

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Speaker 2: I think I think is very fair.

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Speaker 3: I feel like a B plus. Yeah, I think as

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Speaker 3: because you're so good at having money conversations and identifying

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Speaker 3: where you want to be better. And that's half the argument, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I say on the podcast all the time, we

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Speaker 3: need to get our heads out of the sand and stop,

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Speaker 3: you know, hiding from it. I don't feel like you

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Speaker 3: do that at all. But you're very aware of the

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Speaker 3: coping mechanisms that you have around spending and anxiety, and

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Speaker 3: you mentioned before mental health concerns, and I think that

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Speaker 3: that's you know, that's a level of introspection that not

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Speaker 3: a lot of people have and that Yeah, and I

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Speaker 3: like saying plus.

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Speaker 4: I think the reason why it's a B plus is

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Speaker 4: because the investing portion is something that, thankfully, through my company,

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Speaker 4: has been made very accessible to me. I think i'd

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Speaker 4: elevate that grade something with invest like investing to me

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Speaker 4: is a little bit scary, like letting that money out

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Speaker 4: into the Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It can be.

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Speaker 4: And two, prior to understanding more about services like ethical

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Speaker 4: investing through you know, e f ts like Vanguard, previously,

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Speaker 4: I was quite concerned about investing into you know, a

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Speaker 4: fund or a service that wasn't ethical. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: been a vegan for likely a decade now, and I've got,

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Speaker 4: you know, some pretty strong values around making sure that

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Speaker 4: you know, things like coal and you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to support something that while with my values, just to.

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Speaker 6: Go that nest egg make money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's.

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Speaker 4: A lot more services now that make a little bit easier.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, absolutely, And that's where it's kind of cool

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Speaker 3: that we get to educate ourselves and these things out

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Speaker 3: there for us to educate ourselves with. And there is

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Speaker 3: a lot more clarity nowadays on what ethical actually means.

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Speaker 3: But the interesting thing about ethical investing, and we covered

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Speaker 3: this in our ethical investing episode, is that ethical means

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Speaker 3: something different to everybody, Yes, right, Like what you are

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Speaker 3: and what your values are are very different to mine.

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Speaker 2: And what you're inexposed to it.

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Speaker 3: Like, even though we both adore animals and plants, and

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Speaker 3: we both you know, don't eat meat, and we both

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Speaker 3: are like crazy vegans and all of that, it's not

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Speaker 3: a bad thing, but like we would you know, if

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Speaker 3: you get into the real nitty gritty of it, I'm

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Speaker 3: sure we'd have differing opinions, and it's kind of like, well,

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Speaker 3: we actually need to learn that about ourselves to be

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Speaker 3: really comfortable with what we're investing in. But for some

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Speaker 3: people they're like, oh, I don't really mind, and you're

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Speaker 3: like that's cool too because we're all small piece and

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Speaker 3: I think that that's really cool. Let's have a good chat.

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Speaker 3: I've got a lot of questions for you, and I

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Speaker 3: feel like if I don't stop now and go to

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Speaker 3: a really quick break, we're not going to stop, Tony.

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Speaker 3: We never do no see soon. So we are back,

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Speaker 3: and you know what, I don't even know where to start.

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Speaker 3: Dog jumpers, plants, honors, degrees, like having a partner since

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Speaker 3: you're nineteen, Like, who knows where to start? But I

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Speaker 3: think that talking really straightly about the fact that you're

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Speaker 3: going through you know, you mentioned before that you were

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Speaker 3: going to have gender affirming surgery and you called it

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Speaker 3: top surgery. I want to know the pervy details. Tony

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Speaker 3: and I were doing some research earlier today just on

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Speaker 3: how much a cost to have gender affirming surgery and

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Speaker 3: what that actually means. There aren't that many stats around

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Speaker 3: and before you and I were having a chat, before

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Speaker 3: we started recording, you were saying, Yeah, that's because there

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Speaker 3: isn't that much, and that's because you know, the Medicare

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Speaker 3: code is the same as people who are having mathstectomies

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Speaker 3: because of cancer, and it just seems wild that we

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Speaker 3: still haven't categorized it. So can you talk us through

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Speaker 3: just the process of paying for that and how that

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Speaker 3: impacts you and what kind of costs you'd be up

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Speaker 3: for for that type of surgery, which you know, in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, should just be one hundred percent covered because

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Speaker 3: it's gender affirming surgery and it should just be one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent on Medicare.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, I didn't think that any of it

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Speaker 2: would be eligible for Medicare. I don't know if that's

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Speaker 2: really naive from me, but no, I just I just

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Speaker 2: didn't have any idea that it would be covered under

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Speaker 2: Medicare at all. I was so relieved when I was

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Speaker 2: doing a bit of research today that to find that

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Speaker 2: it was Yeah, but yeah, I had no idea.

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Speaker 3: But there's so many an associated costs and I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to talk to that because I feel like you're

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Speaker 3: the best person to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Someone here to do it for us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you can do our job absolutely well.

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Speaker 4: When it comes to the costing for top surgery. So

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Speaker 4: just throw a little bit of context for anyone that's listening.

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Speaker 4: I identify as trans. I was, I guess, assigned female

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Speaker 4: at birth, and now have you know, more of a

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Speaker 4: masculine sort of presentation. I just you know, feel more masculine,

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Speaker 4: and as a result, I'd like to have my breast

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Speaker 4: removed to have you know, my outside sort of reflect

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Speaker 4: how I sort of think and view myself internally.

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Speaker 5: So, as you.

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Speaker 4: Said, missectomy surgery that is experienced via folk that have

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Speaker 4: had breast cancer is the adjacent procedure to people who

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Speaker 4: want to refer their gender in a way that requires

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Speaker 4: the removal of breast, and you know, that could result

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Speaker 4: in you know, having like the nipples remain, could result

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Speaker 4: in having them removed completely. The scars and the placement

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Speaker 4: of those scars can look quite different depending on someone's

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Speaker 4: like body size and what look or conferring thereafter, some

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Speaker 4: people choose to leave a little bit of tissue in

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Speaker 4: there if they feel, you know, maybe sometimes they want

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Speaker 4: to have like a more non binary or you know,

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Speaker 4: still have part of that with them. But in terms

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Speaker 4: of costing, you know, I guess It's like a lot

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Speaker 4: of procedures, particularly when we look at cosmetic work. Not

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Speaker 4: to say that this is a cosmetic procedure for folks

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Speaker 4: that it is usually what it is performed by plastic

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Speaker 4: and reconstructive surgeons, but in terms of costing, you could

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Speaker 4: be looking from anywhere from sort of eight or nine

395
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Speaker 4: thousand dollars if you're getting sort of keyhole surgery where

396
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Speaker 4: you know, incisions aren't made all the way up to

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Speaker 4: sort of like twenty five thirty k if you don't

398
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Speaker 4: have you know, full your private health insurance to cover

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00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 4: that procedure and.

400
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Speaker 3: Much money to just be are meant to be.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I mean, you know, please keep in mind

402
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Speaker 4: these are looking at figures that are based sort of

403
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Speaker 4: around my region, you know, and could be significantly sort

404
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 4: of less or more based on where you are and

405
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Speaker 4: sort of what you need to have done.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm assuming it means that, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're closer to a capital city, I'm making a grand

408
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: assumption that it's probably easier to access than if you

409
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Speaker 3: were remote or you know, interstate where it's just not

410
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Speaker 3: as common to have these things done. Right.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, you've definitely got more sort of selection in places

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Speaker 4: like Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane. And I think for me,

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Speaker 4: I've always wanted to move to Sydney, as we touched

414
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Speaker 4: on earlier in the conversation. But part of it is that,

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00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 4: you know, if I'm sort of aware, am I sir,

416
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 4: who is going to take place too? In terms of

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Speaker 4: travel time and worry about recovery and things like incisions

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Speaker 4: being disturbed in any way and post operative appointments and

419
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 4: check ins and that kind of thing. Obviously, the closer

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Speaker 4: you are to your surgeon, the more accessible and easy

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00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 4: those sort of follow up and after care is. And

422
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 4: even things like having your partner or a friend close

423
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 4: to you can be really important. If you're someone who

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Speaker 4: lives in a more rural region.

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Speaker 5: You know you want to have that support with you,

426
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Speaker 5: and it can.

427
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Speaker 4: Be quite difficult to ask friends or family to you know,

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Speaker 4: can you take a week off work with me while

429
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 4: I go and have that record it's done. And that's

430
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: a huge amount of money that you've then got to,

431
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 4: you know, pay for accommodation and food. Like there's so

432
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 4: many sort of fringe costs associated so when you're getting

433
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 4: up into those big expensive figures, like sometimes they might

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Speaker 4: not even include you know, if someone sort of travel

435
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,959
Speaker 4: and eat, things like transport accommodation willn't even be factored

436
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 4: into some of those figures that.

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Speaker 2: I men, sure, what do you want to travel?

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Speaker 3: And I don't know that's very auto So that all

439
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 3: makes sense, And I'm actually like baffled that I didn't

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Speaker 3: even think of needing care and all of that, like

441
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 3: going through the surgery kind of yeah, like because it

442
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 3: would be really invasive. But I think that there's more

443
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 3: ongoing costs than you know, I think we realize, like

444
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: if you've you know, been assigned at birth the wrong gender,

445
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: that you're going to have costs like hormone treatment and

446
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 3: ongoing I would assume a level of therapy that is

447
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: necessary to make sure that you're in tip top mental

448
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: health shape. So what does what types of costs are

449
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: we looking at for that? Because I know that that's

450
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: a really big component of making sure that you're healthy.

451
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

452
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think, you know, just to preface this

453
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 4: entire conversation, you know, things like surgeries and hormones are

454
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 4: definitely not required as a component. No, you identify as

455
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 4: a trend or you know, non binary individual or wherever

456
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: you sit on the gender spectrum. But in terms of

457
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 4: ongoing costs, things like you know, packers and binders, different

458
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 4: sort of like tucking devices for different people of different genders.

459
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 4: You know, they're all for the most part imported, you know,

460
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 4: from overseas. We don't have a huge market for those

461
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 4: kind of items. There are definitely a few different stores

462
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 4: and makers that have them here Australia, but generally the

463
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 4: cost reflects, you know, the import value. But then you've

464
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 4: also got things like you know, hormone replacement therapy if

465
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 4: that's an avenue and individual choosers to use, and I

466
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 4: believe so everyone's cycles can look a bit different. But

467
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 4: if you're someone who's taking testosterone on a twelve sort

468
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 4: of weekly interval and I get that injected into my booty,

469
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 4: what a fun time. That's forty dollars an injection. And

470
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: some of that's covered by the previous thankfully for folk

471
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: that you require that. But yeah, that's another ongoing cost

472
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: I guess to consider in the same way that you know,

473
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 4: if you've got other medications that you might need to take.

474
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, general like, that's not a little undertaking and it's

475
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 3: by no means necessary, but it's more if you are

476
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: trends and you want to go through this process, like

477
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 3: I just feel like everyone should have the options and

478
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: the financial knowledge, like, okay, cool, this is how to

479
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: impact my budget. But I think the frustrating thing for

480
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: me is I know there are people out there and

481
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: I've spoken to them in our community who would love

482
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: to be on it consistently but just can't manage to

483
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 3: get it into their budget. And that breaks my heart

484
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 3: because you shouldn't have to be pain to be who

485
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: you were meant to be, Like it just it it

486
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 3: baffles me. And it's not it's not something that should

487
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 3: baffle you, but it's more like, ah, cool, So we're

488
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 3: not doing nearly enough to support this space because if

489
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 3: that's an issue, it shouldn't be. And so for me, yeah,

490
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: it's not necessary when we look at it, but it's

491
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: more me going cool, how much does that cost? And

492
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: like what are ongoing costs? And you know, being trends,

493
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: I feel like in you know, you're about the same

494
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: age as us being trends. Obviously when you were a

495
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 3: bit younger, did you know, like how did you come

496
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: to the realization that you were like, nah, this is

497
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: not the right gender. I need to change it, And like,

498
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: how did you decide that potentially testosterone and gender affirming

499
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: surgery were the right decisions for you, Because they're big

500
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: decisions to make.

501
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think making that decision is definitely tied

502
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 4: in to costing because I've mentioned before, you know, forty.

503
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 5: Dollars every twelve weeks.

504
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 4: I think you know, most listeners and both of you

505
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 4: could have test but that is a cost that you

506
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 4: could look to factor into your budget, of course, But

507
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: I think it's more of the timing piece. Like when

508
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 4: I was younger, if I had to have a day

509
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: off work to have, you know, because the injection site

510
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 4: can be quite tender after having it done, or if

511
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 4: you've got a specialist appointment to go and see, you know,

512
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: your gender doctor or whatever specialists that you've got a

513
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 4: part of your team. Because you know, prescribing hormones, there's

514
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 4: a lot of blood tests and other sort of health

515
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 4: factors to be involved. You know, a lot of folks

516
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 4: can't afford to have the day off work, you know,

517
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: every three months or whenever the frequency of that check

518
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 4: in is. And that's why I.

519
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 5: Think it's really hard to put a cost on all

520
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 5: of this stuff.

521
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 4: For our community, because not only have you got to

522
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: worry about, you know, purchasing the physical hormones or the

523
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: surgery or the packing or the tucking or like whatever

524
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 4: you need to feel like yourself, there's also a component

525
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 4: of time, you know, and what costs do you put

526
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 4: on that when it's at such a frequent interval. I

527
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: definitely think I've been you know, a sort of gender

528
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 4: ambiguous or you know, butch queer person for forever. I

529
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 4: came out as a lesbian at fourteen, and you know,

530
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: went through high school and I was very lucky that

531
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 4: I had a very supportive high school, you know, where

532
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 4: my teachers and peers were really good about who I was,

533
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: and it was almost a bit of a yeah, it

534
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 4: was almost a bit of a novelty and like I

535
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: was very.

536
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: Like, I'll take all this attention, and yeah, absolutely.

537
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 5: It was never a big deal.

538
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 4: And I think it was just when you know, connecting

539
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: with my partner when I did when I was nineteen,

540
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: and you know, sort of getting out into the world

541
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: where I was like this sort of narrow perception of gender.

542
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: I don't really think it's for me, and I think

543
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 4: it's something that i'd like to you know, look about,

544
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: you know, making more aligned with who I am. So yeah,

545
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 4: definitely always been in the background, but in terms of

546
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 4: making conscious decisions. So I've been on hormones for two

547
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: years now, and in terms of top surgery, I've thought

548
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 4: about top surgery a long time prior to you know,

549
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 4: commencing hormones. That's definitely been a front runner for me.

550
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 4: But I knew then in order to have surgery and

551
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 4: give myself the best shot at healing, I needed to

552
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 4: be in a really good space financially.

553
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 5: I needed to be get free, and I.

554
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 4: Needed to ensure that, you know, having that surgery wasn't

555
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: going to cause stress and anxiety and out of parts

556
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: for my life. I don't want to replace one stress

557
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: with another.

558
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 5: I guess yeah.

559
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: And it's one of those things that you know, as

560
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: a girl who I would say, I'm a pretty girly girl,

561
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: and I got a number of ends who do have

562
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: breast implants. I've had this conversation at brunch a lot.

563
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: We talk about just the differences between surgeons. And you

564
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: can get breast implants for six grand or you can

565
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: get thirty thousand dollars breast implants, And I guess The

566
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: same goes for gender affirming surgeries, Like like, I just

567
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: don't think i'd ever fully comprehended that there's so much

568
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: more to it than just going cool, we'll book in

569
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: for the surgery yet, Like that's not it.

570
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 4: But I think, you know, victory, what you're saying about

571
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: your friends talking about augmentation, you know over brunch, Like,

572
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 4: you know, I want the conversation when we talk with

573
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 4: you know, trans and gender diverse spoke to be crush

574
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 4: with me absolutely, And I just think that you know,

575
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: people you know, get breast implants to feel better in

576
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: a particular outfit or you know looted or in landerie

577
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 4: or whatever they're interested in doing. And you know, for

578
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 4: a lot of trends and gender nonconforming people that I

579
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: speak to, For some people, it is as simple as

580
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 4: I want to look really great in a in a

581
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: button down lemon shirt and not be worried about like

582
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: lumps or bumps. And I think that, you know, let's

583
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 4: normalize that conversation, like you know, in terms of really

584
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: painful dysphoyer and having you know, some of those really

585
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 4: sort of downtrodden trans stories. And I'm not dismissing anyone's

586
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 4: narrative or experience, But for me, there's discomfort there. Sure,

587
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 4: I would prefer that they weren't there, obviously, but you know,

588
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 4: it's more about having a body that I want to

589
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 4: celebrate as opposed to it being innately bad in the

590
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: same way that someone you might want to have botox

591
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: or fillers or a nose job, Like yeah, you.

592
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 3: Look at it like that's yeah, that's a really good

593
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: way to look at it. And I think that there's

594
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: a lot to be done there as well, right, Like, yes,

595
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: an affirming surgery is you know, necessary, But also I

596
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: feel like you need to be in a position where

597
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 3: it's something that you should talk about if you want

598
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: to talk about it, if it's something you want to

599
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: talk about over brunch, Like I just feel like we

600
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: shouldn't have to be awkward about it. I'm so pervy.

601
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: I'd be like, key, Oh, where does it go? How

602
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: does it work? What does stars look like?

603
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 5: You know?

604
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: Like cool? I want to know what my friends are

605
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 3: up to and support their journeys. And I guess that

606
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: leads into the next question of like how as the

607
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: she's on the money community, can we as a community

608
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: better support the trans community? Because I feel like there

609
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: are so many of you in the community that just

610
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: don't have as bigger voices as you deserve, or don't

611
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: feel as comfortable as you should, like how can we help?

612
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely? And I think that, you know, I posted in

613
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 4: the community not that long ago about wanting to move

614
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: to Sydney and seeing if anyone had any sort of

615
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 4: rough costing moving into state or doing a big move

616
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 4: with you know, an established sort of house and a

617
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: partner and a pet, and so many folk were coming

618
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: forward and saying, so for contacts, I want to live

619
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 4: in the Inner West, which is known as being you know,

620
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 4: quite a an LGBT rainbow friendly part of the world,

621
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 4: and so many yes, budget permitting. You know, there are

622
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 4: so many folk in the community that we're saying, oh,

623
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 4: you know, my partner and I live there, and you know,

624
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: they've got a wonderful profile photo of them and their

625
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 4: female partners, and you know, it's really wonderful that, you know,

626
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 4: even in a community that's about budgeting, we're also facilitating,

627
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 4: you know, community conversations about you know, gender and sexuality too.

628
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: Like there's so many different parts to you know, who

629
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 4: we are. And I feel like you've created a space

630
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: that allows people to you know, they don't need to

631
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: be compartmentalized anymore. You know, the LGBT community, you know,

632
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: historically has been underrepresented in terms of conversations on finance

633
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 4: and money. And you know, we've got a lot of

634
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 4: spectrum in the community. You know, you've got tropes of

635
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 4: you know, jewel incume, no kids, folks that are you know,

636
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 4: really quite comfortable, and then you've got people that unfortunately

637
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 4: are so knowing that there's a middle for our community,

638
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 4: and you know, there's all different ways of approaching money

639
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: and being who you are is really really positive.

640
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: Yeah no, and I love that, and I love that

641
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: you see that as well. And like I mean, we've

642
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: talked about it a lot historically about like I said,

643
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: you and I have talked about it historically, just about

644
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: what it means and what she's on the money actually means,

645
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: and that it is not specifically for women, that she

646
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: and she's on the money is actually me And as

647
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: lame as that sounds, I think that's a really important

648
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: differentiation that we need to make.

649
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: It's not that we are a female exclusive group.

650
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 3: Yeah no, that's not what this community is about. And

651
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: we're about our community, not about women. We at the

652
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: end of the day, yet started there because women were

653
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: experiencing significant disadvantage in comparison to men when it came

654
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 3: to money. And that's where my piece of education started.

655
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: And she's the money came from a workshop I was

656
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 3: doing because it was created for women because that was

657
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: my demographic at the time, and since then it has

658
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: grown from there, and I think it's really important to

659
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe I would have changed the name

660
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: had I known how big this would have gotten. But

661
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: now I don't regret it for any any stretch of

662
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: the imagination. But I have had conversations in our DMS

663
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 3: before about people being so offended that it's only for women,

664
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, cool, like nuclearly are new here,

665
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: that's not that's not it, but that's okay, and you

666
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: know you need to correct them. But I end up

667
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: feeling quite defensive of it, because.

668
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, like, do you know there's no exclusivity?

669
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: No, Like, where did you get that from? Like I

670
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: know we're pink and peache, but that doesn't mean that.

671
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: Surely we are all past buying blue for boys and

672
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: pink for girls.

673
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: Like they were to come on and peach, it just

674
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: looks so esthetic, like and I don't care who you are,

675
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: like if you don't agree, like, come on, no, but

676
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 3: it is really important. I guess that's, you know, something

677
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 3: that I want to be very clear about but also

678
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: want to know. You know, we've got this epic platform.

679
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: We've got this podcast. We get to share stories like this.

680
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: We're talking to you this week before we were recording,

681
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 3: we were talking about how a few weeks ago we

682
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: had a priest and then the week later we had

683
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: a sex worker. And it's just our community is so

684
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: rich full of things that we can learn and share

685
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: and support one another on. And I think that that's where,

686
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 3: you know, that's the thing that makes me most proud,

687
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 3: is just how open our community is. Like, what is

688
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 3: something that we can encompass into maybe not just our language,

689
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 3: but our daily thought patterns or behaviors, Like what can

690
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: we do to make sure that everybody feels a little

691
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: bit more safe and a little bit more secure and

692
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: a little bit more comfortable when it comes to their

693
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: gender and what they identify as.

694
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think you know,

695
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 4: and no, language is one of those things that you're

696
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 4: on paper. I feel like a lot of people like

697
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: understand and appreciate. But you know, as you know we

698
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: touched on before. I have like an honors degree that's

699
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: in English and literature and poetry. Language is so important,

700
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 4: right and you know, even like Victoria, when you go

701
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 4: like high friends, like immediately to me, I'm like, that's

702
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: so nice, Like when folk in the community will say

703
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 4: like high friends or hi everyone, like I've got a

704
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 4: question about and x y Z.

705
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 5: And you know.

706
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: Oh, I saw this really cute person the other day

707
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: with a pink top and has anyone seen it? I

708
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 4: think it looks like x y Z's Like I want

709
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: to purchase it too. I think neutralizing your language in

710
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 4: all situations, you know, when you meet someone for the

711
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 4: first time, or you know, if you feel like you're

712
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 4: not sure, like asking you know someone's pronouns. Instagram and

713
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 4: LinkedIn and a lot of the platforms that you know

714
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: olt your audience users and we communicate on I've got

715
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: pronoun functionality now to pop them in, which is so.

716
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: Like it is so easy and just yeah, I think

717
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 3: I think that's sutting in here. I think that's something

718
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 3: that I would really like to ask and ask how

719
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: that's appropriate, and you know, maybe you can give me

720
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: some feedback on how I've been doing it. But in

721
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 3: situations where I felt like, maybe I need to ask pronouns,

722
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: but that could be awkward because you don't want to

723
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: make someone feel uncomfortable. But the way I've been doing

724
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: it is like, oh, hey, Tony, I'm Victoria, so lovely

725
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 3: to meet you. Oh just fyi. My pronouncer she her,

726
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 3: what were yours? And I feel like, is that a

727
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 3: good way to approach it, or is there a better

728
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 3: way that we can introduce this into our conversation to

729
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: just make it more normalized.

730
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think the way that you pop it onto

731
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: yourself first is really powerful because you're opening up that

732
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 4: space by offering some personal information about yourself. A lot

733
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: of times people in our community are placed on a

734
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 4: microsope or expected to offer up information that is quite

735
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 4: personal before you know, really getting to know someone, and

736
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 4: obviously that can be a bit orcs a bit uncomfy.

737
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 4: Your pronouns first is showing your ally ship, which you

738
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: most certainly are an ally of the community, and it

739
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 4: means that you're more than willing to you know, curate

740
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 4: that conversation or you know, open that up. Someone might

741
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 4: choose to respond back to you, or you know, they

742
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 4: might they might gloss over it, and if they do,

743
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 4: that's fine too. But I think even to what you

744
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 4: said before about you know, someone looking really you know,

745
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 4: like I perceive you as quite a feminine person, both

746
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: of you, Like you know, you love dresses and in

747
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 4: care and makeup and all of these things that we

748
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 4: associate with a feminine But at the same time, you know,

749
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 4: you both could have a say them pronoun and identify

750
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 4: as non binary. And that's just the way that you

751
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 4: choose to present yourself. So I think by placing that

752
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 4: pronoun first and offering that information about yourself, that's a

753
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 4: really rich way to go about it. And just you

754
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 4: know a little bit of research. Like if you know

755
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 4: that you're meeting someone for the first time.

756
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 5: And you you know it might be to work.

757
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 4: Or ID be in a social setting and getting to

758
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: know someone, maybe jumping on their Instagram or they're social,

759
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 4: doing a little bit of a stalky store before you

760
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 4: before you connect, gives you the opportunity to just check

761
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: you that something that they are offering up to people

762
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 4: who look at their profiles or look at their content.

763
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 4: I've done that many times when meeting with a stakeholder

764
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 4: or a new person for the first time, just to

765
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 4: confirm with that something that I can get right.

766
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 6: Off of that.

767
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

768
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think that social media is making it

769
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 3: so much.

770
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 6: Easier for us, so much easier.

771
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 3: I don't have to ask your pronouns actually on your

772
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 3: profile because I had a look before, you know, jumping

773
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 3: on and having a chat with you or meeting you

774
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: in a meeting, I already knew, so I could immediately

775
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 3: make you feel comfortable because you've already said, well, not

776
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: out loud, but you've already said put publicly, that that's

777
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 3: what you want to be addressed as. And I just

778
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: feel like it's not like, obviously it's a massive deal

779
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: to make sure we're doing it right. But it's not

780
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 3: as big a deal as I feel like people make

781
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: it sometimes to be like cool, how about we just

782
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 3: respect people and call them what they want to be called.

783
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: Like if you were like, oh, hey, Tony, and you'd

784
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 3: be like, oh, I don't really like being called Tony.

785
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: Can you call me this? Yeah? No problems, Like just

786
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: correct it? Is that right?

787
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 4: Like?

788
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 3: Should we be over apologizing if we miss gin?

789
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely not no, no, just just glaze over it. And

790
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 4: I think it's about you know, particularly maybe older folks,

791
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 4: and I don't want to put anyone in demographics, but

792
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 4: I think sometimes there's you know a bit of an

793
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: assumption that you know, gender neutral language or whatever is

794
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: a bit snow flaky or it's like an extra step

795
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 4: that I have to take. But when we think about

796
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 4: things like you know, or there's a girl over there

797
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 4: in a red shirt, or there's a person with a

798
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 4: red shirt, like, we're not actually adding language or making

799
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 4: things more complicated. We're usually subbing out or removing words.

800
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 5: So really it's a good point.

801
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually like less work if you're typing something

802
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: out or saying something you know to a friend, or

803
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 4: you know, making a presentation. But in terms of overapologizing,

804
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 4: the reality is that trands and general conforming people on

805
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 4: the basis of their journey, oftentimes maybe not always, are

806
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: usually pretty self aware and like you know, many of

807
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 4: us are quite sensitive, like we don't want to rock

808
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 4: the boat. We don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable

809
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 4: because we know what it feels like to be made

810
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 4: to feel like less than.

811
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: So if you.

812
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 4: Overapologize, it can automatically make us feel like, you know,

813
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: we've already taken up too much space and no.

814
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. I yeah, I just feel like I

815
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: was offensive or rude when no, but.

816
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 6: Like overcommisting, just just you know, glaze over it and

817
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 6: get it right the next time, right, like you know

818
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 6: you're going to interact with that person again, and there's

819
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 6: so many opportunities in everyday interactions to just get it

820
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 6: right the next time.

821
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that, And I guess you know, having

822
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 3: friends that are friends, I like, I slip into it

823
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 3: very easily. I go cool, Like what is this? How

824
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 3: does that work? Oh? You're them cool, no problems, Like

825
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: it's it's really easy. So I think for me it

826
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 3: does confuse me a bit when people are like, oh,

827
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 3: it's also confusing it's too hard, Like why is it

828
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 3: too hard? Is it too hard for you or are

829
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 3: you just uncomfortable? And is that just a reflection of

830
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 3: maybe you not being who you probably should be? Yeah?

831
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess I'm just grateful that we get

832
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: to learn and we get to share that, and you've

833
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 3: been so open and so you know, honest, it's you know,

834
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 3: it's really refreshing to be able to have a chat

835
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,439
Speaker 3: with somebody who you know genuinely wants to teach, even

836
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: though it's not your like, it's not your job to

837
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: teach us, but you know you're taking the time to

838
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 3: share this journey so that we can be better off

839
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: and be better our lives and just genuinely be more

840
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: well rounded educated people. And that's yeah, that's really special.

841
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate it.

842
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for holding space for me.

843
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 5: I really appreciate it.

844
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: No, of course it won't be the last time, my friend.

845
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, genuinely, so grateful. But as always friends,

846
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge and

847
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 3: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torrestreet island of People's,

848
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 3: the traditional custodians at the lands, the waterways and the

849
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and

850
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 3: for caring for the land on which we are able

851
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,

852
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: and we share our friendship and our kindness.

853
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: The advice sheed on She's on the money is generally

854
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on

855
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: the money exists purely for educational purposes and should not

856
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: be relied upon to make an investment or any financial decision.

857
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: And we promise that Victoria Devine is an authorized representative

858
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: of Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABM three four

859
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: one three two four six three two five seven AFSL

860
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 2: three three nine one five one. And I'm going to

861
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: pop heaps of resources and links that our Money direst

862
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: this week has provided with us for ways that you

863
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: can donate and support folk in our community and in

864
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: hopefully your local area. You know where you can access

865
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 2: some information and how you can help out, which is

866
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: really really important to us. And we hope that you

867
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: learned a little bit from this money Diary as well.

868
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 3: I did. I felt really pervy, but it was so

869
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 3: good to learn and just you know, learn what our

870
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: friends get up to and what impacts them. But see

871
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 3: you next week for another money Dairy guys.

872
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: Hi, I love you