WEBVTT - The Inquiry, a Simple Waste of Time! 0:00:04.111 --> 0:00:06.551 Podcast Unite Our Voices. 0:00:11.951 --> 0:00:15.551 This is Curtain, a podcast where we expose the disappearances 0:00:15.591 --> 0:00:19.071 of Aboriginal people across this country. Shining a light on 0:00:19.151 --> 0:00:21.111 the darkest parts of our justice system. 0:00:21.311 --> 0:00:23.311 We ask who are the victims? 0:00:23.711 --> 0:00:28.551 I'm Aiming McQuire and I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior Advocate at 0:00:28.551 --> 0:00:32.111 the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning this series 0:00:32.191 --> 0:00:36.711 contains the names of deceased people and includes distressing content 0:00:36.831 --> 0:00:43.071 that may upset some listeners. This week we're going to 0:00:43.111 --> 0:00:46.191 talk about the final report that's come out of the 0:00:46.231 --> 0:00:50.311 Missing and Murdered First Nations Women and Children Inquiry that 0:00:50.471 --> 0:00:53.871 was held by the Australian Parliament and that's been running 0:00:53.871 --> 0:00:54.511 for about the. 0:00:54.511 --> 0:00:55.591 Last two years. 0:00:55.791 --> 0:00:59.591 But before we get into what the recommendations are, what 0:00:59.711 --> 0:01:03.511 our views of those recommendations are, and the inquiry pro 0:01:03.711 --> 0:01:07.431 sense itself, I first wanted to get Amy to comment 0:01:07.711 --> 0:01:12.111 on what's happened in terms of the reporting of the inquiry. 0:01:12.191 --> 0:01:16.471 Now that the final report has been handed down, So Amy, 0:01:16.511 --> 0:01:18.431 can you tell us a little bit about what the 0:01:18.471 --> 0:01:19.751 media response has been. 0:01:20.391 --> 0:01:22.831 Yeah, Martin, and I think it's important to preface this 0:01:22.991 --> 0:01:25.991 with mentioning that the very reason one of the reasons 0:01:25.991 --> 0:01:29.111 the inquiry was called was because there was a silence 0:01:29.151 --> 0:01:31.831 around the issue of disappeared Aboriginal women, which has been 0:01:31.871 --> 0:01:34.391 called a missing e murdered Indigenous women and girls, and 0:01:34.431 --> 0:01:37.031 so it was really about in a way, breaking that 0:01:37.111 --> 0:01:40.351 silence understanding the crisis. Well, that seemed to be the 0:01:40.471 --> 0:01:44.351 reason behind it. But the report was tabled last Thursday 0:01:44.711 --> 0:01:47.431 in the Senate. It was tabled i think after three 0:01:47.431 --> 0:01:50.071 point thirty and it led to about six or seven 0:01:50.271 --> 0:01:51.191 media reports. 0:01:51.231 --> 0:01:54.151 So this was supposed to be a landmark inquiry. 0:01:54.191 --> 0:01:56.711 This was the first inquiry ever held in this country 0:01:56.711 --> 0:01:59.871 into the crisis of missing a murdered Indigenous women and girls, 0:02:00.351 --> 0:02:04.151 and yet the media largely ignored it. You know, you 0:02:04.191 --> 0:02:06.231 look at the scale of what an inquiry like this 0:02:06.431 --> 0:02:09.791 and how it should be covered, and even despite the 0:02:09.831 --> 0:02:12.151 facts that Martin and I are going to be really 0:02:12.191 --> 0:02:14.751 critical of what actually came out of the report, you 0:02:14.791 --> 0:02:17.831 would expect that there would be way more coverage than 0:02:17.871 --> 0:02:20.391 there has been, and there just hasn't been any of that. 0:02:20.711 --> 0:02:23.831 And you can only conclude that it's because, as usual, 0:02:24.031 --> 0:02:27.471 the nation doesn't care about what is happening to Aboriginal 0:02:27.511 --> 0:02:30.311 women and girls. It just doesn't care, and that's what 0:02:30.351 --> 0:02:32.751 we've been saying throughout this podcast, and it's been shown 0:02:32.911 --> 0:02:36.191 again and just by way of comparison, the week after 0:02:36.351 --> 0:02:40.471 around Thursday, the Assurised Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commissioner 0:02:40.511 --> 0:02:42.951 Michayla Cohen then appeared at the National Press Club in 0:02:42.991 --> 0:02:45.471 Canberra and she was giving the first update into the 0:02:45.551 --> 0:02:48.591 National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children. That 0:02:48.831 --> 0:02:52.431 resulted in way more coverage in the mainstream media just 0:02:52.471 --> 0:02:54.831 her comments in the National Press Club. I should also 0:02:54.871 --> 0:02:57.511 note that there were several media outlets that just didn't 0:02:57.511 --> 0:03:00.471 even mention the tabling of the report into missing emergent 0:03:00.471 --> 0:03:03.351 Indigenous women and girls, and that was The Australian, the 0:03:03.751 --> 0:03:06.431 Wanting Herald, in the Age. There was just nothing about 0:03:06.511 --> 0:03:09.151 it in that coverage and so it's very very disappointing. 0:03:09.711 --> 0:03:11.871 It puts the lie to this idea that the report 0:03:11.951 --> 0:03:14.351 is in any way landmark, because it just seems like 0:03:14.431 --> 0:03:17.031 the Nations media don't again does not. 0:03:17.111 --> 0:03:19.671 Care about the crisis. And I think it leads to 0:03:19.711 --> 0:03:23.231 our concerns that I didn't even think the Inquiry considered 0:03:23.831 --> 0:03:24.671 it a crisis. 0:03:25.071 --> 0:03:27.631 Martin, Can I ask you what were your thoughts in 0:03:27.671 --> 0:03:29.871 relation to this when it was released on those day. 0:03:30.151 --> 0:03:35.551 In terms of the coverage, I was surprised. You know, 0:03:35.551 --> 0:03:38.311 I will speak about the report itself, but in terms 0:03:38.391 --> 0:03:42.471 of the coverage, I was surprised that there was so little, 0:03:43.551 --> 0:03:46.311 even if the coverage was going to be negative of 0:03:46.391 --> 0:03:47.271 the inquiry. 0:03:47.951 --> 0:03:49.311 Maybe there were media. 0:03:49.111 --> 0:03:53.231 Outlets who thought it was some sort of landmark breakthrough 0:03:53.311 --> 0:03:58.951 because normally these sorts of inquiries are easy fodder for 0:03:59.111 --> 0:04:03.431 journalists to get articles up and to get column in. 0:04:03.791 --> 0:04:06.231 So I mean, if you look back ten years ago 0:04:06.311 --> 0:04:09.831 when there was the inquiry into the construction industry in 0:04:09.871 --> 0:04:14.951 New South Wales. Again that was a similar two year inquiry. 0:04:15.311 --> 0:04:19.591 There was an enormous amount of media afterwards. The inquiry 0:04:19.711 --> 0:04:22.711 was tabled in the Federal Parliament, even though it was 0:04:23.351 --> 0:04:27.311 from the New South Wales Parliament. There was debate in 0:04:27.791 --> 0:04:31.991 the New South Wales and Federal Parliament over the inquiry 0:04:32.151 --> 0:04:37.151 its recommendations. There was an enormous amount of media finger 0:04:37.231 --> 0:04:43.311 pointing and it really raised the issue of construction insolvency. 0:04:43.911 --> 0:04:48.511 But again it goes back to what we've talked about 0:04:48.591 --> 0:04:51.231 so often and the way this country just does not 0:04:51.431 --> 0:04:55.631 care about Aboriginal women and children. That the construction of 0:04:56.231 --> 0:05:01.231 houses and high rises was deemed far more important than 0:05:01.311 --> 0:05:04.431 the murder and forced disappearance of Aboriginal women and children. 0:05:04.631 --> 0:05:09.031 And again, I just don't know how people aren't disgusted, 0:05:09.591 --> 0:05:12.271 and I don't know what is wrong with the Australian 0:05:12.311 --> 0:05:15.911 media if they can't see why it's so important that 0:05:15.951 --> 0:05:19.151 they cover this issue and mardin. 0:05:19.191 --> 0:05:21.991 The other thing that really annoys me is that we're 0:05:22.031 --> 0:05:24.351 literally only talking about and we can only really talk 0:05:24.391 --> 0:05:26.911 about the fact there was no coverage. I think just 0:05:26.951 --> 0:05:29.231 the fact that there's such a silence means that we 0:05:29.271 --> 0:05:31.911 can't even begin talking about how a lot of the 0:05:31.911 --> 0:05:35.191 way this issue is framed is really problematic, because I 0:05:35.231 --> 0:05:38.431 found myself in a situation where I was grateful for 0:05:38.471 --> 0:05:41.231 the media outlets who did report in it, but still 0:05:41.271 --> 0:05:44.191 concerned at the same time about the reporting of it. 0:05:44.311 --> 0:05:46.991 And I think some of it because of the inquiry 0:05:47.031 --> 0:05:49.391 and how it replicates a lot of the issues with 0:05:49.431 --> 0:05:53.551 the way this crisis has been looked at. It's replicated 0:05:53.591 --> 0:05:55.631 in a lot of the media reporting, and so there. 0:05:55.511 --> 0:05:57.231 Are two dimensions to the silence. 0:05:57.271 --> 0:06:00.191 There's the fact that there is just no coverage at 0:06:00.191 --> 0:06:02.871 all given the scale of what is happening the fact 0:06:02.911 --> 0:06:05.031 this is supposed to be landmark inquiry, but then there's 0:06:05.031 --> 0:06:08.951 the other silencing of the voices of women and families 0:06:09.191 --> 0:06:12.351 and the actual issues that are foregrounding what is happening 0:06:12.431 --> 0:06:13.191 in this country. 0:06:13.631 --> 0:06:15.031 And I think that's what puts us. 0:06:14.991 --> 0:06:19.551 In a really hard position, and it means the inquiry, 0:06:20.151 --> 0:06:22.871 like I just feel like the inquiry was meaningless, Like 0:06:22.911 --> 0:06:25.431 I feel like it hasn't delivered anything. In fact, in 0:06:25.431 --> 0:06:28.671 some ways it takes us steps backwards because people will 0:06:28.711 --> 0:06:31.831 refer to the inquiry as if that's what's happening when 0:06:31.871 --> 0:06:34.151 we can see the problems of the inquiry itself. 0:06:36.231 --> 0:06:38.951 Yeah, I mean, I think that's the real problem here. 0:06:39.191 --> 0:06:44.151 Is a bad inquiry is one thing, but a it 0:06:44.311 --> 0:06:48.071 wasted two years of vital time when work needed to 0:06:48.111 --> 0:06:51.071 be done on this issue and be as you say, 0:06:51.191 --> 0:06:53.951 people are into the future now will refer to this 0:06:54.071 --> 0:06:59.511 inquiry as if the recommendations of the inquiry are the answers, 0:07:00.031 --> 0:07:02.911 when we know they're not, and they when they can't 0:07:02.951 --> 0:07:08.591 even frame the issue correctly, and the senators involved clearly 0:07:08.631 --> 0:07:12.351 didn't understand the issue, then that is a terrible way 0:07:12.871 --> 0:07:13.711 to go forward. 0:07:14.271 --> 0:07:16.631 The other issue that come out of the inquiry that 0:07:16.671 --> 0:07:20.391 was quite shocking is that it only delivered ten recommendations. 0:07:20.631 --> 0:07:24.271 And for our listeners like this inquiry was influenced by 0:07:25.151 --> 0:07:27.791 what was a landmark inquiry in Canada, which still didn't 0:07:27.831 --> 0:07:30.711 come without its issues. But there was an inquiry in 0:07:30.751 --> 0:07:33.671 twenty nineteen into the crisis of Missing aout Diesian is 0:07:33.751 --> 0:07:36.351 ruining girls in Canada and it led to two hundred 0:07:36.391 --> 0:07:39.151 and fifty carps of actions and one of the one 0:07:39.191 --> 0:07:42.151 of the central findings of that inquiry was that what 0:07:42.231 --> 0:07:44.751 was happening in relation to Aboriginal women being targeted for 0:07:44.831 --> 0:07:48.111 violence and disappeared was at the root cause it was 0:07:48.191 --> 0:07:50.231 genocide and it was part of the genocide and how 0:07:50.231 --> 0:07:52.391 it operates in set of colonial societies. 0:07:53.151 --> 0:07:55.991 Madam, when you look at these recommendations. 0:07:55.671 --> 0:07:57.791 What are your initial goals and what were your initial 0:07:57.791 --> 0:07:59.351 thoughts and what are you thinking now. 0:07:59.311 --> 0:08:02.911 Well, yeah, let's run through those recommendations. But as you said, 0:08:03.071 --> 0:08:06.471 I've been involved in a number of inquiries at the 0:08:06.471 --> 0:08:09.751 federal level over the years to do with all sorts 0:08:09.791 --> 0:08:13.751 of issues, and normally the number of recommendations exceeds one 0:08:13.831 --> 0:08:17.231 hundred and if it doesn't, it might be I mean, 0:08:17.511 --> 0:08:20.471 just looking at the most recent one I was involved in, 0:08:20.751 --> 0:08:25.631 there was eighty seven very detailed recommendations. So for this 0:08:25.791 --> 0:08:28.751 inquiry to have sat for more than two years and 0:08:28.831 --> 0:08:32.511 come back with ten, it's just another slap in the face. 0:08:32.551 --> 0:08:35.831 And I think it's worse when people hear what those 0:08:35.911 --> 0:08:42.071 recommendations are, the first of which is that the federal, 0:08:42.151 --> 0:08:47.711 state and territory governments co design a culturally appropriate way 0:08:48.591 --> 0:08:51.831 to remember First Nations women and children who have been 0:08:52.151 --> 0:08:56.191 murdered and disappeared. I don't really think that is a 0:08:56.231 --> 0:09:00.631 recommendation that an inquiry should come up with. It should 0:09:00.671 --> 0:09:03.951 just be the jumping off point for why this is 0:09:03.991 --> 0:09:08.591 so important. And it also I found that offensive in 0:09:08.631 --> 0:09:11.551 the sense it suggests that that hasn't been done, when 0:09:11.551 --> 0:09:16.591 the reality is families have been finding ways to honor 0:09:16.631 --> 0:09:20.711 their loved ones for decades and decades and decades and 0:09:21.271 --> 0:09:24.671 still do in their fight for justice for them. So 0:09:24.751 --> 0:09:26.871 I thought that was an appalling way to get off 0:09:27.191 --> 0:09:29.191 to a start with these recommendations. 0:09:29.911 --> 0:09:32.631 Mardin, I just couldn't believe that was the first recommendation 0:09:32.791 --> 0:09:37.271 rather than a recommendation to stop the violence being inflicted 0:09:37.351 --> 0:09:40.871 upon First Nations women and girls. I thought it was 0:09:40.911 --> 0:09:44.711 so interesting that rather it's just an expectation that First 0:09:44.791 --> 0:09:47.711 Nations women and girls are going to continue to be targeted, 0:09:48.071 --> 0:09:50.831 and so instead we must think of ways to remember them. 0:09:51.311 --> 0:09:54.191 It's almost like that continual logic that you know, of 0:09:54.231 --> 0:09:56.631 course black women are going to. 0:09:56.551 --> 0:09:57.591 Be continually killed. 0:09:57.671 --> 0:09:59.591 And I feel that so much in the way that 0:10:00.351 --> 0:10:02.511 you know, even I was reading because there's a supposed 0:10:02.591 --> 0:10:04.351 rapid review which had no. 0:10:04.391 --> 0:10:09.871 Aboriginal women on. This review was being released on Friday, and. 0:10:09.831 --> 0:10:13.951 I'm just reading these continual statistics about Aboriginal women being 0:10:13.951 --> 0:10:16.911 thirty three more likely to be hospitalized. 0:10:16.951 --> 0:10:20.031 And I read that statistic all the time, all the time, 0:10:20.111 --> 0:10:23.471 and it's never about well, let's look into that statistic, 0:10:23.551 --> 0:10:25.951 or let's look at ways that we can prevent violence, 0:10:26.191 --> 0:10:29.871 let's look at who is targeting Aboriginal women, or what 0:10:29.951 --> 0:10:32.191 are the conditions in which this is being allowed to happen. 0:10:32.351 --> 0:10:34.231 Instead, it's just a Caul statistic. 0:10:34.271 --> 0:10:37.351 And I felt that in the first recommendation, recognize and 0:10:37.431 --> 0:10:40.791 remember rather than stop what is being happened. And also 0:10:40.791 --> 0:10:44.351 there's no word on the first recommendation on justice and 0:10:44.391 --> 0:10:45.751 what justice will look like. 0:10:46.591 --> 0:10:51.351 No and nothing on justice, nothing on the suffering that 0:10:51.551 --> 0:10:56.191 has taken place. Nothing on the fact that there was 0:10:56.271 --> 0:11:00.671 this almost acceptance that this is going to continue, and 0:11:01.311 --> 0:11:05.351 consigning Aboriginal women and children to their death before they've 0:11:05.391 --> 0:11:10.111 even died. I just thought it was disgusting. And Recommendation 0:11:10.391 --> 0:11:14.791 two starts to give us an idea about why there 0:11:14.831 --> 0:11:18.391 are so many failures, and it's the largest recommendation from 0:11:18.391 --> 0:11:22.831 the inquiry, and it really comes down to having the 0:11:22.871 --> 0:11:28.871 Attorney General tasking police ministers with reviewing existing police practices 0:11:29.511 --> 0:11:33.911 and for them to aim to implement best police practices 0:11:34.431 --> 0:11:37.391 by the end of twenty twenty five. And when they 0:11:37.431 --> 0:11:42.111 say that, they make the recommendations for cultural awareness training, 0:11:43.311 --> 0:11:50.151 trauma informed practices, recruiting and promotion, promoting Aboriginal women and 0:11:50.271 --> 0:11:54.671 men into more senior positions in the police forces, and 0:11:54.711 --> 0:12:01.671 setting out appropriate guidelines for reviewing past cases. Again, nothing 0:12:02.031 --> 0:12:07.951 about being proactive, nothing about addressing the racism of the police, 0:12:08.351 --> 0:12:12.151 and absolutely zero about the fact that in so many 0:12:12.231 --> 0:12:16.431 of these cases the police are directly involved in the 0:12:16.511 --> 0:12:19.071 murder and disappearance of Aboriginal women and children. 0:12:19.631 --> 0:12:21.711 I think that's exactly it, Martin, and I think it 0:12:21.791 --> 0:12:24.511 goes back to another thing, like we've continually. I think 0:12:24.511 --> 0:12:27.431 we've done like three episodes on the inquiry as it's 0:12:27.471 --> 0:12:30.311 been going on, and all of the episodes have been 0:12:30.351 --> 0:12:34.111 prefaced with this ongoing concern that they won't recognize what 0:12:34.191 --> 0:12:36.951 you just said, that the police are actively involved in 0:12:37.031 --> 0:12:40.631 creating these conditions in which Aboriginal women can be targeted 0:12:40.631 --> 0:12:44.231 for violence. And we've made that case very clearly through 0:12:44.271 --> 0:12:46.191 a lot of the stories that we've talked about and 0:12:46.231 --> 0:12:48.911 a lot of the work that we both do, and 0:12:48.951 --> 0:12:50.831 we were always concerned that this is what was going 0:12:50.911 --> 0:12:53.991 to happen, and it was a concern that was our colleagues. 0:12:54.351 --> 0:12:57.431 Debbie Kiroy at Sisters Inside basically said to the inquiry 0:12:57.471 --> 0:13:01.551 when she gave evidence, she said, if this if your 0:13:01.591 --> 0:13:04.631 recommendations are just going to be cast or responses, then 0:13:04.631 --> 0:13:07.151 we're not going to accept the inquiry. 0:13:07.391 --> 0:13:08.591 And that's all they've done. 0:13:08.591 --> 0:13:11.231 And I felt like they could have made these recommendations 0:13:11.271 --> 0:13:15.791 at the very beginning, rather than take the families and 0:13:15.871 --> 0:13:18.631 everyone involved in this issue through two years in which 0:13:18.631 --> 0:13:21.071 they were going to just deliver these issues. And I saw, 0:13:22.111 --> 0:13:23.711 this is the other thing I have with the media 0:13:23.751 --> 0:13:27.151 framing is that so much of the media accepted this 0:13:27.231 --> 0:13:32.151 recommendation uncritically as if this is a substantial and concrete recommendation, 0:13:32.231 --> 0:13:35.111 when we know instead it's actually going to harm black women, 0:13:35.111 --> 0:13:41.551 because we've seen how more policing actually over criminalizes Aboriginal women. 0:13:41.591 --> 0:13:42.631 Again, and we've made. 0:13:42.391 --> 0:13:46.871 The case several times that criminalization leads to further violence 0:13:46.871 --> 0:13:50.031 against black women. And you only have to look at 0:13:50.031 --> 0:13:53.471 the experiences of Aboriginal women who are incarcerated. 0:13:52.711 --> 0:13:56.271 At horrific rates. They're all victims of violence. 0:13:56.311 --> 0:13:59.231 And then we've made the case continually that when they're 0:13:59.231 --> 0:14:02.151 taken away from their communities and they leave jail, they 0:14:02.191 --> 0:14:06.271 become even more vulnerable for ongoing violence. And so cultural 0:14:06.271 --> 0:14:10.751 awareness training that's not going to do anything. Training courses 0:14:10.911 --> 0:14:13.511 aren't going to do anything more. Black cops aren't going 0:14:13.551 --> 0:14:16.991 to do anything appropriate guidelines to the review past cases 0:14:17.071 --> 0:14:20.631 police again investigating their own failures. I just don't see, Like, 0:14:20.711 --> 0:14:22.671 how is I didn't even know what to say to 0:14:22.751 --> 0:14:23.591 this recommendation. 0:14:24.351 --> 0:14:26.911 Well, I mean, I must say that it goes directly 0:14:27.111 --> 0:14:31.791 against what I spoke to the inquiry about, which is 0:14:31.911 --> 0:14:36.671 the criminalization of Aboriginal women and children and the targeting 0:14:36.751 --> 0:14:40.231 of Aboriginal women and children by the police. And the 0:14:40.271 --> 0:14:45.951 way that would women in particular at risk. And we 0:14:45.991 --> 0:14:48.591 don't have time to go over it now, but I 0:14:48.631 --> 0:14:52.231 went through a number of cases of Aboriginal women who 0:14:52.551 --> 0:14:56.191 have been murdered and who were murdered as a direct 0:14:56.271 --> 0:15:01.391 result of their criminalization, and so clearly there was just 0:15:01.551 --> 0:15:06.871 no listening going on, care, no concern, and one of 0:15:06.911 --> 0:15:13.191 their key recommendations, their largest recommendation, goes against all the 0:15:13.231 --> 0:15:18.111 evidence and will lead to further murders and disappearance. I 0:15:18.231 --> 0:15:22.391 just think it shows how little the committee cares, and 0:15:22.711 --> 0:15:28.831 recommendations three and four really were just that Recommendation three 0:15:28.991 --> 0:15:33.151 is that the committee monitors the progress of Recommendation two, 0:15:33.631 --> 0:15:37.871 so monitors the progress of the police a joke. I mean, 0:15:38.191 --> 0:15:41.831 they have shown the committee that they don't understand the issue. 0:15:42.231 --> 0:15:45.111 So how they will monitor the police, especially as a 0:15:45.151 --> 0:15:50.151 federal committee monitoring state police, they have no authority, so 0:15:50.431 --> 0:15:55.551 again complete lack of understanding. And Recommendation four was that 0:15:56.831 --> 0:16:02.391 first Nations person be impaneled as some sort of commissioner, 0:16:02.431 --> 0:16:06.991 and it wasn't clear in the recommendation what that level 0:16:06.991 --> 0:16:09.951 would be, whether the person would be a deputy commissioner, 0:16:10.591 --> 0:16:14.151 what powers they would have, but that they would sit 0:16:14.711 --> 0:16:19.511 within the Domestic Family and Sexual Violence Commission. And again 0:16:19.551 --> 0:16:23.431 as we've gone to great links to point out that 0:16:23.751 --> 0:16:27.911 so many of the Aboriginal women who have been murdered 0:16:27.911 --> 0:16:30.991 and the children who have been murdered were not in 0:16:31.111 --> 0:16:35.111 domestic partnerships with the men that killed them, and so 0:16:35.151 --> 0:16:37.231 that won't address any of that issue. 0:16:37.511 --> 0:16:37.991 I think you. 0:16:38.031 --> 0:16:40.231 Raised that point really well, Mardin, and it comes back 0:16:40.271 --> 0:16:43.231 to I don't think from the very outset the inquiry 0:16:43.351 --> 0:16:46.071 has understood what it was supposed to be investigating. 0:16:46.751 --> 0:16:47.391 So it could have. 0:16:47.391 --> 0:16:50.791 Done an inquiry into family violence, but it was an 0:16:50.791 --> 0:16:53.791 inquiry I'm missing a murdered Indigenous women and girls. And 0:16:53.831 --> 0:16:56.431 what we're seeing is that in a lot of these cases, 0:16:56.791 --> 0:17:01.391 Aboriginal women have been in the were lasting with white 0:17:01.391 --> 0:17:04.231 men and they didn't have as you said, they don't 0:17:04.231 --> 0:17:07.311 have they're not in family violence relationship. 0:17:07.351 --> 0:17:09.671 It's not a family violence case, you know. 0:17:09.711 --> 0:17:12.351 And I think that's where everything is being complicated as well. 0:17:12.391 --> 0:17:16.191 But I don't think they even understood the issue, the 0:17:16.311 --> 0:17:19.551 very specific issue that we're talking about around forcibly disappeared 0:17:19.551 --> 0:17:23.311 Aboriginal women, and they're conflating it with issues of family violence, 0:17:23.351 --> 0:17:26.511 which is a really really important issue where there is 0:17:26.591 --> 0:17:29.911 expertise from Aboriginal women in relation to that sector, who 0:17:29.911 --> 0:17:32.991 should be listened to in relation to that very. 0:17:32.911 --> 0:17:35.071 Specific violence, you know what I mean. 0:17:35.111 --> 0:17:38.511 And yet all of these recommendations and even the inquiry 0:17:38.551 --> 0:17:41.871 is really confused about how we're talking about these two 0:17:42.471 --> 0:17:47.031 two different forms of violences, both violences affecting Indigenous women 0:17:47.391 --> 0:17:52.511 and which I both considered feminini aside or femicide, Indigenous femicide. 0:17:52.671 --> 0:17:56.151 But they're different acts, and they're different ways to understand it, 0:17:56.191 --> 0:17:57.631 and they need different responses. 0:17:58.311 --> 0:18:04.551 Yeah. Absolutely, And recommendation five compounds the problem because what 0:18:04.591 --> 0:18:09.911 it recommends is increased geographic spread and capacity for family 0:18:09.991 --> 0:18:15.511 violence prevention legal services. Again, that is important, but not 0:18:15.911 --> 0:18:20.991 necessarily And as we've explained in this issue again, in 0:18:21.031 --> 0:18:24.991 the case of the Barraville children murdered by a single 0:18:25.391 --> 0:18:29.511 white male serial killer, what the hell has family violence 0:18:29.511 --> 0:18:33.231 got to do with that? Mona, Lisa and Cindy Aboriginal 0:18:33.271 --> 0:18:38.511 teenage girls murdered by a single white male. You know, 0:18:38.591 --> 0:18:42.271 we've seen the same thing in Queensland, Aboriginal women murdered 0:18:42.311 --> 0:18:45.471 by white men who they weren't in domestic partnerships with 0:18:46.511 --> 0:18:50.191 what the hell would a family violence prevention legal service 0:18:50.351 --> 0:18:54.631 do to assist Aboriginal women and children who are being 0:18:54.671 --> 0:18:58.711 systematically killed by white serial killers. And we've got to 0:18:58.791 --> 0:19:02.071 name it for what it is, and we gave that 0:19:02.151 --> 0:19:06.431 information to this in and nowhere does it appear in 0:19:06.511 --> 0:19:13.991 their recommendations. Again, they talk about dysfunctional Aboriginal communities without 0:19:14.071 --> 0:19:18.111 actually saying the word. And yet, as I told the Inquiry, 0:19:18.591 --> 0:19:22.991 eighty five percent of Aboriginal women in Victoria who are 0:19:22.991 --> 0:19:27.151 in domestic partnerships are in those relationships with non Aboriginal men. 0:19:27.951 --> 0:19:32.631 So it seems that they want to fund and increase 0:19:32.711 --> 0:19:37.111 the capacity of family violence prevention legal services. That's a 0:19:37.151 --> 0:19:40.671 good thing, but in relation to this issue, it does 0:19:40.791 --> 0:19:41.791 nothing to address it. 0:19:59.391 --> 0:20:02.631 And going through the other recommendations as well, Martin, I 0:20:02.631 --> 0:20:05.711 mean we've gone through the five, it seems that this 0:20:05.791 --> 0:20:09.191 is the continual message that is being sent that it's 0:20:09.231 --> 0:20:12.511 actually not the inquiry is not actually addressing the issue 0:20:12.511 --> 0:20:14.831 that it was actually set out to address. One of 0:20:14.911 --> 0:20:17.791 the things, I mean the absence of recommendations is also 0:20:17.831 --> 0:20:21.031 around data, and one of the there's a chapter two, 0:20:21.191 --> 0:20:25.031 the second chapter of the report is all focused on data, 0:20:26.071 --> 0:20:28.471 and that was part of the terms of reference to 0:20:28.511 --> 0:20:31.231 determine the number. And I think data can be very problematic, 0:20:31.231 --> 0:20:34.191 as we've discussed many times, but it doesn't even come 0:20:34.231 --> 0:20:36.551 up in the recommendations to understand the crisis. And the 0:20:36.591 --> 0:20:39.711 reason I bring up the data issues that because I 0:20:39.751 --> 0:20:43.111 read some commentary where someone actually said a small number 0:20:43.151 --> 0:20:46.631 of horror stories perpetrated by non Indigenous men, And I'm 0:20:46.671 --> 0:20:49.391 sitting there going, how do you even know any of that? 0:20:50.111 --> 0:20:52.071 You know, like, how can you say it's a small number, 0:20:52.151 --> 0:20:55.191 and how can you say a small number doesn't mean 0:20:55.191 --> 0:21:00.191 it's deserving of a wider examination, Because what I see 0:21:00.231 --> 0:21:02.031 with a lot of the cases we've looked at is 0:21:02.071 --> 0:21:04.671 that it is the most extreme form femininis side. So 0:21:04.711 --> 0:21:06.951 I see it as a spectrum of all of these 0:21:06.951 --> 0:21:11.391 different violences that apperpetrate against Aboriginal women, and disappearing is 0:21:12.031 --> 0:21:15.191 most extreme active that And so to see it almost 0:21:15.711 --> 0:21:20.111 downgraded as if it's not worthy of concerted attention and proper, 0:21:20.191 --> 0:21:24.551 concrete recommendations and actual action makes me really annoyed and 0:21:24.671 --> 0:21:28.791 upset and not even it's almost just like they're going 0:21:28.871 --> 0:21:31.311 to you know, there was a focus at the start about, oh, 0:21:31.351 --> 0:21:33.551 we need to count which I found problematic as well. 0:21:34.111 --> 0:21:37.631 But now they've just abandoned that all together. You know, 0:21:37.671 --> 0:21:40.111 they're just going to continue to conceal what we know 0:21:40.231 --> 0:21:40.991 as a crisis. 0:21:41.831 --> 0:21:45.711 Yeah. Absolutely, And as I told the inquiry, fifty percent 0:21:45.791 --> 0:21:50.471 of Aboriginal women who are currently listed as missing with 0:21:50.551 --> 0:21:54.871 the federal database have gone missing away from their communities 0:21:55.151 --> 0:22:01.951 and families. And yet recommendation seeks again seeks to support 0:22:02.071 --> 0:22:06.991 services for First Nations people, including women and children expering domestic, 0:22:07.151 --> 0:22:12.911 family and sexual violence. Again a very important thing to 0:22:12.991 --> 0:22:18.151 focus on, but in relation to this issue specifically completely 0:22:18.151 --> 0:22:21.071 misses the point. And I think the reason it misses 0:22:21.071 --> 0:22:25.191 the point is what Amy just stated about data. Because 0:22:25.271 --> 0:22:29.031 they didn't take into account the facts and figures of 0:22:29.071 --> 0:22:32.871 what is actually going on and the huge percentage of 0:22:32.911 --> 0:22:36.991 Aboriginal women and children who are targeted by people outside 0:22:36.991 --> 0:22:40.431 of their family and community, they've ended up handing down 0:22:40.631 --> 0:22:46.751 recommendations that make no sense whatsoever. And as Amy said, 0:22:47.071 --> 0:22:50.991 there's nothing in the recommendations that would do anything really 0:22:51.111 --> 0:22:57.151 to focus on gaining an insight in collecting the data 0:22:57.191 --> 0:23:00.631 in the first place properly and then understanding what that 0:23:00.831 --> 0:23:08.271 data actually tells us. And recommendation seven again is just 0:23:08.391 --> 0:23:13.831 looking at implementation of services and supports that address violence 0:23:14.071 --> 0:23:20.951 in communities. Once again, very important in the area of 0:23:21.071 --> 0:23:24.951 family violence that is a crisis across this country, with 0:23:25.151 --> 0:23:30.271 women being murdered every week, that is very important. But 0:23:30.391 --> 0:23:33.311 when it comes to this issue, it completely misses the 0:23:33.311 --> 0:23:37.431 mark once again. And I have to say very plainly 0:23:38.271 --> 0:23:43.791 that for the white men around Australia who have murdered 0:23:43.911 --> 0:23:47.071 Aboriginal women and children and who have got away with it, 0:23:47.511 --> 0:23:50.111 and we know who many of those men are, and 0:23:50.151 --> 0:23:54.391 we know they're victims, if they have read this report 0:23:54.871 --> 0:23:59.351 from this inquiry, they must be over the moon. Not 0:23:59.471 --> 0:24:02.271 once was the finger pointed at them for their crimes, 0:24:02.591 --> 0:24:06.151 not once were they identified for what they've done, and 0:24:06.271 --> 0:24:11.031 nothing here suggests even any follow up or any action 0:24:11.311 --> 0:24:15.031 to be taken against them. 0:24:15.431 --> 0:24:17.591 Yeah, I totally agree, Mar, and I think that's the 0:24:18.591 --> 0:24:22.431 really horrific message that this report sends and the really 0:24:22.551 --> 0:24:26.031 just toothless recommendations which are going to do nothing. 0:24:26.071 --> 0:24:27.591