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Speaker 1: Now we just heard from the Police Minister about well

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Speaker 1: what many have described as delays to those promises made

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Speaker 1: following the tragic death of Declan Lavity, so Labor introduced

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Speaker 1: a raft of crime reforms, including that pledge to train

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Speaker 1: bottle shop workers in de escalation techniques and to manage

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Speaker 1: anti social behavior, and also the authorization of security guards

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Speaker 1: to carry capsica spray. Now the minister saying that he's

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Speaker 1: going to still be rolled out end of this week

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Speaker 1: beginning of May. Joining us on the line is the

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Speaker 1: See of Hospitality here in the Northern Territory. Alex Bruce,

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Speaker 1: good morning to you, Alex.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Alex.

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Speaker 1: Not sure if you heard the Minister for Police, but

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Speaker 1: what did you make of the timeline that he spoke about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did hear him, and that's good news from

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Speaker 2: our behalf. It is consistent with the letter that he

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Speaker 2: wrote formally advising us that he was hoping that it

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Speaker 2: will become end of this month early next month. And

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Speaker 2: we definitely spoke to him after another that incident in

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Speaker 2: one of the bottle shops about three weeks ago, and

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Speaker 2: he said it was on track for about three weeks.

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Speaker 2: So that sounds like it's all charging ahead, which is positive.

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Speaker 2: Sooner rather than later is all that we've been asking

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Speaker 2: for it. So when we were seeking an update last

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Speaker 2: week from government, we were getting told thirty first of May.

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Speaker 2: So they're very happy with the commitment that it looks

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Speaker 2: like it's moving faster than that.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, that is you know, I think it's good

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Speaker 1: use in terms of it happening and hopefully providing that

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Speaker 1: additional sort of measure for security at bottle shops.

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Speaker 2: That's it, and the Minister's right, it's not going to

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Speaker 2: be for everyone, and it's not going to be every business.

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Speaker 2: They're going to choose whether this is part of the

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Speaker 2: mix you are seeing in our space, the hardening of infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: you know, more products behind locks, locked cabinets, staff cages,

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Speaker 2: panic rooms even being built into new builds and significant refurds.

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Speaker 2: It's sad that it's gone that way. We can all,

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Speaker 2: you know, I agree on that, but realistically we just

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Speaker 2: have to protect our staff and our customers and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: the violence is not subsiding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how are things going, Alex, That was going to

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Speaker 1: be my next question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, we're getting we're getting near misses and so

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Speaker 2: we're getting quite quite quite twitchy. You're getting a cohort

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Speaker 2: of use. Younger and younger seem to be prepped by

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Speaker 2: the older ones because they know that there's probably less

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Speaker 2: repercussions for the younger kids to do the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: They're carrying weapons. Even when the guards and the staff

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Speaker 2: are backing away and giving you a clear, clear access

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Speaker 2: to the alcohol or the till or whatever they're after,

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Speaker 2: they're still coming and trying to lunge at the staff

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Speaker 2: and the guards. So we're on tenor hooks. We know

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Speaker 2: this isn't the silver bullet, but you know, until we

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Speaker 2: start to put some repercussions in, however unsavory they are,

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Speaker 2: and you know, non lethal, a little bit of spray

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Speaker 2: to the face might send a pretty good message to

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Speaker 2: some of the other rap bags running around out there.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's at a time as well, we're

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Speaker 1: around the nation, Alex, we're talking about or people are

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Speaker 1: sort of having discussions about with it every day. Ossie

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Speaker 1: should be able to carry our sea spray. In the

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Speaker 1: wake of what we saw at Bondi.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely Bondi even you know a week or so ago

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Speaker 2: up here that lady at nice point out of her

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Speaker 2: car by youth. Yeah, so you know, we know the

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Speaker 2: WA model isn't the be all and end all, but

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Speaker 2: it shouldn't be discredit that out of hand. It should

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Speaker 2: be looked at. Yeah, you know over there, anyone's allowed

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Speaker 2: to carry it. You just have to have a reasonable

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Speaker 2: reason to carry it. And unfortunately, shopping in large shopping

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Speaker 2: centers or going for a dawn or dusk run past

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Speaker 2: some of the parks in and around Darwin, probably almost

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Speaker 2: reasonable right to carry now given some of the horrific

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Speaker 2: incidences that are happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've all, I mean, it goes without saying,

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Speaker 1: we've all had enough of it, right, Like we're all

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Speaker 1: exhausted by the anti social behavior and the issues we're

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Speaker 1: seeing with public safety. But then when you look at

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Speaker 1: those bottle shops and some of what the bottle shop

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Speaker 1: workers are having to put up with, its next level.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and if we just continue to adopt the protocol

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Speaker 2: that the you know, O H and S and the

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Speaker 2: legal fraternity are advising as it's stand back and let

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Speaker 2: them almost have free reign, that just encourages them to

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Speaker 2: come back over and over again. The police are stretched,

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Speaker 2: they can't always be out chasing the same cohort of

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Speaker 2: kids that have knocked off the bottle shop again. So

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Speaker 2: you know, as a community, we do need to move

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Speaker 2: past it. Some more personal protection, you know, not mandatory,

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Speaker 2: but if you want to carry it, why can't we

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Speaker 2: You know, I appreciate that the minister said, that's not

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Speaker 2: the path that the government's looking at right now. You

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Speaker 2: saw all those rallies across the country. There's a real

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Speaker 2: issue about you know, women's safety emerging. This might be

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Speaker 2: something that they need to look at in the future,

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Speaker 2: but we'll stay in our lane and go Look. If

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Speaker 2: there's now increasing calls for this to be rolled out publicly,

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Speaker 2: surely those bureaucratic roadblocks that are stopping it from going

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Speaker 2: into the hands of well trained guards just need to

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Speaker 2: be moved to the side of the.

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Speaker 1: Board now, Alex, can I ask I know it had

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Speaker 1: been reported that only eighteen people have completed the training

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Speaker 1: to manage antisocial behavior and OC spray. Is that number

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Speaker 1: sort of updated or how are things going from your perspectives?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not quite right and a bit confusing

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Speaker 2: and mix mixing two different things. After Declin's tragic passing,

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Speaker 2: the government was quite quick at rolling out an online

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Speaker 2: de escalation package. I think some of the small retailers

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Speaker 2: found that valuable at the time we were advising that

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Speaker 2: our venues wanted the face to face training, and credit

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Speaker 2: to a bunch of them. I think Nunamar, Tavern, Berry Springs, Tavern,

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Speaker 2: and I think even Hotel Darwin off their own Batman

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Speaker 2: of their own cost. They got a great local trainer

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Speaker 2: to roll out that the escalation training for them. We

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Speaker 2: would have liked to have seen some government support to

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Speaker 2: roll out more of that kind of training that the

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Speaker 2: venues were indicating they wanted. They went with the online option.

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Speaker 2: It is what it is, and I think that's that's

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Speaker 2: the A team, but that's the general staff to verbally

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Speaker 2: de escalate out of potentially violent and threatening situations as

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Speaker 2: opposed to the OC training. And again there's a few

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Speaker 2: great local options up here already, and there are guards

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Speaker 2: that have had all the training, had their first Aid certificates.

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Speaker 2: They're ready to go. They're just they're needing their computer

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Speaker 2: and police to stop saying no and just to start

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Speaker 2: saying yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, in terms of that OC SPT like in terms

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Speaker 1: of the training for it, we did have somebody get

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Speaker 1: in contact with us and I asked the Police minister this,

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Speaker 1: saying that that basically some of the security companies don't

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Speaker 1: want to do it because it's cost prohibitive.

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Speaker 2: Look at, all of this comes at a cost, you know,

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Speaker 2: the hard and the infrastructure, the increased guards. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I hadn't been to one of the large

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Speaker 2: box retailers for a while, Big w or Kmart, and

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Speaker 2: I'm blown away with the guards they have to have

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Speaker 2: on their doors now in Cagirina when I went down

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Speaker 2: on the weekend. I've got to say it is it's

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Speaker 2: not normal, it's but it's nt normal unfortunately. So all

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Speaker 2: of this does come at a cost. It hits the

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Speaker 2: businesses first and hardest. But you know, over time, does

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Speaker 2: that make us a higher cost jurisdiction for all our

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Speaker 2: customers as well? Probably? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, it is one of those tough juggles, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Where you want to make sure that you've got your

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Speaker 1: you keep your customers safe, You're wanting to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you can do everything you can to keep staff

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Speaker 1: safe as well. And it's just like I think it's

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Speaker 1: just you know, part and parcel of being the NT

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Speaker 1: at the moment until we can sort of sort the

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Speaker 1: whole cause rather than or treat the cause rather than

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Speaker 1: sort of the symptom. It's a way that we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to keep going.

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Speaker 2: Look, that's it, and I appreciate that everyone's getting heightened

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Speaker 2: in their intensity between now and August, so we try

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Speaker 2: to walk that fineline in our public commentary, Katie. But

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Speaker 2: you know enough with the universal approach for things, the

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Speaker 2: services that are doing a good job, they know the

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Speaker 2: rat bags that are out there. We've got to be

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Speaker 2: able to go out and get them a bit tougher

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Speaker 2: rather than yet again asking all customers, all retailers, all

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Speaker 2: businesses to do more and more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Alex Bruce, the sea of hospitality here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Mate.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having a chat with us

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Jus Katie, all the best, Thank you,