Speaker 1: We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this
Speaker 1: land that we record this podcast on and pay respects
Speaker 1: to the elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2: We must always remember that under the concrete and asphalt
Speaker 2: that this land is, was, and always will be Aboriginal land. Hi,
Speaker 2: I'm Ruby, Hi, I'm Amanda.
Speaker 1: Welcome to its layered in studio, recorded in Malablle. Can
Speaker 1: you believe that? I don't know how many times I
Speaker 1: have to say that to believe they're recording in studio.
Speaker 2: Believe it, receive it, achieve it. That's a manta right
Speaker 2: there for your day. Okay, That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 2: So we've been having a blast like doing recording the special,
Speaker 2: and we wanted to talk about the beauty of our blackness.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time we talk about
Speaker 2: the struggles or the difficult parts about being black and
Speaker 2: so on and so forth, but we also wanted to
Speaker 2: celebrate ourselves and what it means to be black. But
Speaker 2: before we do that, to get into the top, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you am what you got. The
Speaker 2: question is you know you're a black when so finish
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm cracking up. Okay, share when
Speaker 1: you think you can twerk, But what about Minie Cyrus?
Speaker 1: She learned to talk, Yeah she learnt, but we think
Speaker 1: we can already, but I can't. Yeah, but no, but
Speaker 1: you have this notion that you could, don't you or
Speaker 1: at least that you can die. Okay that, yes, for sure,
Speaker 1: that's true. If someone said, hey, you got no rhthm
Speaker 1: oh hell, no, I'm black.
Speaker 2: But I also know black people who can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah a whole lot, girl. Even some dancers start out
Speaker 1: like this a dance l some craakiness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true for me. I think you know you're
Speaker 2: black when you can't disrespect your parents publicly. You know
Speaker 2: you'll get a whooping if you try and pretend to
Speaker 2: be like too cool for school. You know that those
Speaker 2: things are like, there's a me more joke about. I
Speaker 2: went to my white friend's house and they were like,
Speaker 2: they shouted their mom, no, Sarah.
Speaker 1: I won't do that. First child.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's like never. And then you tried at home.
Speaker 2: We've spoken about me slamming the door on my parents.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's still a life.
Speaker 2: Loveing mom and dad, please don't pay back me.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you you know you're black
Speaker 1: when nothing is yours? Everything has to be shared, like
Speaker 1: your bedroom when yous come.
Speaker 2: Like, why am I on the floor in my own room?
Speaker 2: I think I definitely you know your zimbol. But yeah, definitely,
Speaker 2: I think you know you're black when you open the
Speaker 2: fridge thinking there's ice cream inkid oh, it's like they
Speaker 2: repurpose and stored like leftovers. Brou the heartache, the heart
Speaker 2: ache so savage.
Speaker 1: I think I still if I still see like a
Speaker 1: vanilla or ice cream, but container just assumed there's like
Speaker 1: beans or something inside exactly, not ice cream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why I was saying, like we've been
Speaker 2: recycling before. Recycling was a thing.
Speaker 1: Very purpose that I think you know you're black when yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't speak back to elders, you can't say your
Speaker 1: actual thoughts. Yep, we're muscled on another less just keep it.
Speaker 2: To yourself in your own head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: There's so many things. Do you guys feel free to
Speaker 2: comment and let us know you know you're black when?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like there are so many But I
Speaker 2: guess leading into the meat of this topic, what is
Speaker 2: blackness to you? Like, what what the hell are we
Speaker 2: talking about when you say the beating in our blackness?
Speaker 2: What is blackness?
Speaker 1: I guess obviously the actually being black, But more importantly,
Speaker 1: I think it's just like realizing that due to a
Speaker 1: lot of different things, we are in some ways a
Speaker 1: marginalized part of society, especially in diaspora, but we're also
Speaker 1: a revered part of society. Like a lot of people.
Speaker 1: A lot of people use us as reference points. Whether
Speaker 1: they want to credit, they really do, but but it's
Speaker 1: like a lot of I think for me anyway, that's
Speaker 1: how I see it, that we're quite influential without meaning
Speaker 1: to be like what's TikTok without all these training dancers
Speaker 1: and yeah, I guess particularly in that space African American experience.
Speaker 1: But still even right now music afrobeats is having a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's undeniable. So I suppose we've always had. If you
Speaker 1: look at music, even history, like rock and roll, even
Speaker 1: the blues, all that stuff is rootted in blackness for sure.
Speaker 1: So I think we're so we are influential. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: leave our mark, but we also allow space for others.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're nurturing, welcoming, I feel because we know.
Speaker 1: What it's like to be ostracized, so we're like, because
Speaker 1: we know that, we can then hold space for you definitely.
Speaker 2: And I think I was as you were speaking, I
Speaker 2: was wondering, can we agree there's one universal term for blackness?
Speaker 2: And I think it's we can generalize and say there is,
Speaker 2: but really obviously there's different kinds of blackness, like a
Speaker 2: black Britge is different to black Colombian, different to you know,
Speaker 2: like there's so many. Yeah, but on a whole I
Speaker 2: think for me, blackness I refer to as like what
Speaker 2: we bring to the table on a global scale.
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, they say black people create culture often torot
Speaker 1: to as the culture on the INTERWEP.
Speaker 2: Yes, do you agree on thousand percent? You already said it.
Speaker 2: I think you know the corn rows people, you know,
Speaker 2: the Kim Kardashians doing cornrows wouldn't have done It came
Speaker 2: from blackness. And the crazy thing is when you actually
Speaker 2: know the root of cornrows, how slaves used to do that,
Speaker 2: to to put pathways, yeah, and seeds in their hair
Speaker 2: for when they were being transported so that they could
Speaker 2: continue their food, you know, when they were So when
Speaker 2: you know the history just like Kim K, what do
Speaker 2: you know about slavery? But anyway, have been.
Speaker 1: Coming for I also want to do celebrate.
Speaker 2: I do also like like it, but you know, I'm objective, okay,
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think definitely that's the culture. Music, dance,
Speaker 2: you know, art, food, There's so many elements of what
Speaker 2: we contribute to culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But I think also having said that, we have
Speaker 1: to give a lot of credit to African Americans, yes,
Speaker 1: because I think they've pushed the envelope in what is
Speaker 1: deemed to be black, yes, and then worldwide obviously with
Speaker 1: the push of America and media, it's like this, you know,
Speaker 1: this dance that we do, like they're influenced by Africa,
Speaker 1: influenced by other black people over the world, but the
Speaker 1: reference point always tends to be African American lens. And
Speaker 1: I think if we'll say the culture, yes, they are
Speaker 1: actually probably referring more to an African American experience. Definitely,
Speaker 1: not to minimize what other but I think there's a
Speaker 1: huge A lot of times it's Africans who complain like ah,
Speaker 1: but or like, you know, you guys make fun of us.
Speaker 1: But I think we also have to realize that they've
Speaker 1: also pushed for.
Speaker 2: Us the envelope. Yes, especially in a world coming from
Speaker 2: a world where you know, America has a strong position
Speaker 2: in media, and so they've represented us, I guess blackness
Speaker 2: well in those spaces, or tried to represent black pass well.
Speaker 2: So what are some of the things that black people
Speaker 2: created or that we say black people pioneered, that you
Speaker 2: love or would like to celebrate.
Speaker 1: Oh, where do I start?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean music is obviously something just touched on. I
Speaker 1: think for me that's probably it, because I think for
Speaker 1: we spoke about how music is something we can't live without. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I think just from us singing even in choirs,
Speaker 1: singing as in churches all the way to like you know,
Speaker 1: huge productions and studios such as this one. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: like we've had our finger on the pulse when it
Speaker 1: comes to what people listen to, you know, Order Trey, Yes,
Speaker 1: yeah's you know, I just find that I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's everyone takes their piece of music and you know,
Speaker 1: makes it their own, but it's all rooted somehow somewhere
Speaker 1: along the line in blackness.
Speaker 2: For sure. You feel as you mentioned Elvis Presley, you know,
Speaker 2: the rock and roll Beach Boys, all these people the
Speaker 2: influence of that. I agree with music. I also think
Speaker 2: in fashion. Remember we watched Next in Fashion and we
Speaker 2: watched this season with actually Zimbabwe and born Fara Samoy
Speaker 2: and she was talking about her and her partner in
Speaker 2: the competition. We're talking about the streetwear and you know
Speaker 2: things like rock Away and Boo Hoo boo and all
Speaker 2: that and how that really influenced, you know, culture and
Speaker 2: how for example, breakdancing helped like really propel editors and
Speaker 2: then so on and so forth. If you look at
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan, what he did with Nike, Yeah, so many
Speaker 2: elements that have influenced and still to this day influence
Speaker 2: how we dress. And Aliyah giving us the nineties low
Speaker 2: cut genes and whatnot that still lives on to this day.
Speaker 2: So definitely, so many elements. And then now we're seeing
Speaker 2: this pride, African pride and how we dress, and that's
Speaker 2: I think we need to credit West Africa a lot
Speaker 2: Nigerians Ganans for being proudly you know, preserving their culture
Speaker 2: and their dress so that you know, we too a
Speaker 2: Zimbabwe two we often speak about diluted a lot of
Speaker 2: our culture can now still feel good and proud about that.
Speaker 1: Because they're definitely proud like traditional where everything. Yes, so
Speaker 1: it's very different from us, I think, and we've adopted that.
Speaker 1: I remember even actual we all wore like traditional. But
Speaker 1: then is that even traditional to zim No, not.
Speaker 2: African and African exactly. But I think there's so much
Speaker 2: you know, we have if you've watched Hidden Figures, about
Speaker 2: the influence of I forget their names in NASA and
Speaker 2: how mathematically they impacted that sport. I mean, if you
Speaker 2: look at athletes, it's all based off the power and
Speaker 2: strength of I guess the slaves that were traded the strongest,
Speaker 2: the fastest, who traded off to the US. If you
Speaker 2: look at food, so I.
Speaker 1: Just feel about seasoning. You know, there's alway those jokes
Speaker 1: on TikTok about not seasoning your food.
Speaker 2: Probably no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So there's so
Speaker 2: many elements of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you probably already mentioned it. But what
Speaker 1: do you think it is about black people that makes
Speaker 1: us beautiful?
Speaker 2: I think you actually touched on it, which is just
Speaker 2: our grace and giving enough space for others. Even though
Speaker 2: we go through a lot, we're still able to welcome
Speaker 2: and I think that's part of what made us get
Speaker 2: colonized by the way, yeah, miss that nice guy exactly,
Speaker 2: not me coming back to colonization and like turning. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that being willing and willing to share ourselves and our
Speaker 2: culture and being communal oriented. I think that's just yeah,
Speaker 2: one of the beautiful things about us. Of course we
Speaker 2: can go on a physical our skin, our beauty, how
Speaker 2: youthful we can look even as we grow older. Just
Speaker 2: our style and our pride in how we look. I
Speaker 2: don't know our languages, our.
Speaker 1: I think if you look, especially when you talked about
Speaker 1: the nurturing aspect of us, I think I remember like
Speaker 1: even during slavery, they had a lot of nurses. I mean,
Speaker 1: like what do they call night nurses? Like for the
Speaker 1: kids kids were raised by the help, you know, the
Speaker 1: help tended to be black. And I think that that
Speaker 1: notion still happens even if you look at Zimbabwe with
Speaker 1: the same setup, yes, where it's like we could always
Speaker 1: rely on our our mother's yes to hold us up,
Speaker 1: you know, no matter if they're suffering and going through
Speaker 1: your lot. And I think that permeates and how we
Speaker 1: are with other races and how we interact with other races.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of prank videos. I see
Speaker 1: it a lot of times, it's Black people who actually
Speaker 1: step in and say something. You know, something means happenings.
Speaker 1: I think we've felt so imaginalized that we're always looking
Speaker 1: out for And there's not a bashing of other races
Speaker 1: in any respect. It's just us taking time.
Speaker 2: To acknowledge, acknowledge and take.
Speaker 1: A pat on the back of our ancestors that have come,
Speaker 1: you know, and impact us and we stand on the
Speaker 1: shoulders of today.
Speaker 2: And also resilience. I think that's one of the beautiful
Speaker 2: things about us that we stood the test of time
Speaker 2: in spite of all these things and we and we
Speaker 2: are not embittered. Well, obviously there's some people who are.
Speaker 2: There's a generalization, but I think that is testament to
Speaker 2: just who we are is in spite of we still
Speaker 2: are giving and loving and not. Yeah, that's resilience and
Speaker 2: it's really really amazing to even think about. But how
Speaker 2: do we as black people maintain our beauty in spite
Speaker 2: of our suffering? So we've talked about resilience and how
Speaker 2: do we actually do that in spite of suffer bring,
Speaker 2: alienation and oppression? What do you think it is.
Speaker 1: I think we do have a spirit of don't care, okay,
Speaker 1: the spirit of confidence, yeah, the spirit of being comfortable
Speaker 1: with the space we're in. I find like there's nothing
Speaker 1: worse than coming from a styling point of view then
Speaker 1: walking into a shop and all the clothes are to
Speaker 1: not your size because you've got ass and or hips.
Speaker 1: So because you operate always as added, always as left out,
Speaker 1: you then almost kind of build the stick skin, this
Speaker 1: confidence where it's like, well, they really don't have space
Speaker 1: for me, so I got to fit in or or
Speaker 1: at least, you know, push myself in, otherwise I'm not there.
Speaker 1: I'm not considered at all. And I think when you
Speaker 1: always operate like that, it builds this muscle where you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I can face anything. And I guess that's the resilience
Speaker 1: that you're talking of. But I think that does hold
Speaker 1: us well, especially when you move away from our homes.
Speaker 1: A lot of us are not living where we were
Speaker 1: raised or where we were actually from because of economic reasons,
Speaker 1: a lot of times economic, so we just always look
Speaker 1: back home as a reference. And this podcast is certainly
Speaker 1: rooted in that.
Speaker 2: Definitely, that aspect definitely, and I think it's telling our
Speaker 2: stories too. I remember growing up my grandma would tell
Speaker 2: us Gulo's stories and you know, yeah, and things like that.
Speaker 2: Like that also verbally right, we're very much like we
Speaker 2: orators passed it on, you know, things like that. And
Speaker 2: I think we also maintained religion as much as we
Speaker 2: spoke about religion and some of the limitations of it. Forgiveness,
Speaker 2: I think is a big part of blackness, and that's
Speaker 2: what enables us to keep going and not be bitter
Speaker 2: and like we we really hold on too religion sometimes
Speaker 2: our detriment, but I think sometimes it also helps us
Speaker 2: to forgive so we can keep on, you know, not
Speaker 2: hold on to the baggage so much, so we can
Speaker 2: actually keep going because imagine if we're just like all
Speaker 2: the hate just festering, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, even think of South Africa where you lived
Speaker 1: for a while. Yes, it's like, how do you move
Speaker 1: past aparthid? Do you know? And ninety four is not
Speaker 1: when you think of historically, ninety four is not that
Speaker 1: long ago at all, and those people are still living
Speaker 1: today in some sort of society together. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: so it does take a lot of forgiveness to move
Speaker 1: past those atrocities. So yeah, it's a commendable thing, but
Speaker 1: it does have its drawbacks, like are we too forgiving?
Speaker 2: I think so are we too just like.
Speaker 1: Ah well, I mean life, Yeah, it happens. Or make
Speaker 1: it work becau Zimbabweans does make it work. Mentality, A
Speaker 1: lot of people are like, why didn't you protest when
Speaker 1: you're under dictatorship? Yes, you know why. You can't stand
Speaker 1: for that. You might have to take arms, you might
Speaker 1: have to bleed on the streets to free yourselves under
Speaker 1: that oppression, but we chose to just be.
Speaker 2: Like, get that work, get out. I think also to
Speaker 2: dance and music. As we've said, we sing and dance
Speaker 2: when we're happy, we sing and dance when we're sad
Speaker 2: at funerals and things like that. I think that's also
Speaker 2: what's carried us. We've already spoken about music, but I'm
Speaker 2: talking about it in kind of like the traditional way.
Speaker 2: I think that being moving your body. You know, they
Speaker 2: talk about it if you want to let go of
Speaker 2: stress or anxiety, to move your body, not just physically
Speaker 2: like running or exercising, but also dancing and singing. And
Speaker 2: I think it's a part of who we are and
Speaker 2: I think it helps us to release a lot of
Speaker 2: the baggage and the way. My mom always used to
Speaker 2: say that she thinks Black Americans can sing incredibly well
Speaker 2: because they suffered so much and singing was the only
Speaker 2: way to release a lot of that pent up frustration
Speaker 2: and hurt, and so they really just she specifically it
Speaker 2: was referring to gospel music and how you know they
Speaker 2: really like a lot of artists come from gospel mute.
Speaker 1: A lot of them, you know, grew up with that culture. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where they hold their voice. Even told they could sing, yes,
Speaker 1: because at the young ages they were leading choirs, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean one of the common elements that you think
Speaker 1: can be found in most black cultures or households, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up black.
Speaker 2: I think it's the whole listen to your elders. Respect
Speaker 2: the elders at all costs.
Speaker 1: It's all costs, even if they're wrong, even if if
Speaker 1: even this wasn't the e pedophile, We're not all got
Speaker 1: to like work our way around him in the family.
Speaker 1: Just stay away from that, stay away from him.
Speaker 2: I'm like, maybe he shouldn't be here exposed, YEA like
Speaker 2: to leave us be definitely, I think that respect elements.
Speaker 2: I think that not being able to be yourself just
Speaker 2: like having a piece of you hidden.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Do you also think us
Speaker 1: like trying to overachieve? You know, Nigerians are now known
Speaker 1: I think in the mayor can I and I'm Americans.
Speaker 1: They're being seen as they're the ones who in the
Speaker 1: next generation are going to be a lot of doctors
Speaker 1: and stuff are coming from that background.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's just because we're just also trying
Speaker 1: to make up, may up for lost time, the pressure,
Speaker 1: the pressure, Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think definitely it's about you. You have to
Speaker 2: be super educated, you have to be you know, keep learning,
Speaker 2: keep achievement, achieve, achieve, achieve a chief. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably universal, having to deal with bearing parts of yourself
Speaker 2: so as to meet the requirements and demands of your
Speaker 2: parents and society and the burden of that. Yes, we're
Speaker 2: talking about this too so many times before.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, yeah, come back before dark growing
Speaker 1: up black as well.
Speaker 2: Definitely staying out of don't go to the neighbors. What
Speaker 2: don't ask for like when you go visit your friends
Speaker 2: or whatever. Don't ask for like water, juice, don't open
Speaker 2: the fridge.
Speaker 1: Don't eat it's someone out of the house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you see other kids just going to
Speaker 2: another person's.
Speaker 1: Fridge, you cannot be doing that.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, can not be done. Like who are you?
Speaker 2: Do you think that people undermine are beauty as black people.
Speaker 1: That they under mine?
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe not giving credit where it's you, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's also lack of documentation. Yes, so
Speaker 1: see people call like what are the bow Derek braids?
Speaker 1: Which were where Kim then said she got an inspiration
Speaker 1: for corn Rows because I think she was bo Derek
Speaker 1: was on like a Bond movie in the sixties and
Speaker 1: she was a Bond girl, one of the one of
Speaker 1: the quintessential Bond girls. Probably have seen her. And then
Speaker 1: she had like beads coming out of the water ocean
Speaker 1: and I think Helen Barry recreated her scene. And it's
Speaker 1: like that where it's like, because we have lack of documentation,
Speaker 1: it's easier to it's easier to feel in spir yes,
Speaker 1: and they're not credit. Yes, you see it on TikTok
Speaker 1: all the time. I think they had what the girl
Speaker 1: who everyone knows on TikTok the I forgot name now
Speaker 1: and she went on Jimmy Fallon and she did all
Speaker 1: the dances and they were like, no, Jimmy Fallon, these
Speaker 1: are not she didn't come up. These are trends that
Speaker 1: are on TikTok and you need to actually call the
Speaker 1: original people that were predominantly African American. And it's like
Speaker 1: that where it's like, because we don't document our staff,
Speaker 1: it's open season, and then putting responsibility on the other
Speaker 1: person to do their research and then you know, credit.
Speaker 1: But we also need to be a bit more like protective.
Speaker 1: I guess yes about it, which I guess we're learning now.
Speaker 1: We're becoming more and more like, okay, what's in this
Speaker 1: for me, which hasn't typically been the way we've approached things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're so right, that thing of talent. I was
Speaker 2: talking about my grandma telling stories to us, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: but never writing. She never wrote down like this is
Speaker 2: the story of Tunagulo or what was the other one?
Speaker 2: I forget the story, but like it's all I'd have
Speaker 2: to ask my mom and she's, you know, we don't document,
Speaker 2: and I remember, you know, we've spoken about family trees
Speaker 2: and me saying okay, I think we need to put
Speaker 2: together family tree. But otherwise you're just like living like
Speaker 2: I don't know what my great grand great great grandparents
Speaker 2: parent was, who it was, what they did, So yeah,
Speaker 2: not documenting enough for sure.
Speaker 1: Do you think we ourselves under mine our own blackness
Speaker 1: as black people?
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think it is by virtue of wanting
Speaker 2: to be accepted, because sometimes our blackness is a bit
Speaker 2: too strange or so wanting to assimilate, so then we
Speaker 2: sometimes shun our blackness trying to be more closer to
Speaker 2: what Yes, exactly, and I think too we don't appreciate
Speaker 2: the beauty of what we do. We speak a lot
Speaker 2: about the creative industry in Zababwe and for example, the
Speaker 2: sculptors who sell their works on the side of the
Speaker 2: road and how people don't really appreciate it's not really
Speaker 2: in a lot of museums or galleries. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: But had we been European, you know, we would document,
Speaker 2: we would you know, value it be priceless things like that.
Speaker 2: But then it's like, oh, the creative industry doesn't it's
Speaker 2: not an industry. It doesn't work, you know.
Speaker 1: It's not over exposure of talent though, like you know,
Speaker 1: in your family, if all of you can sing, it's
Speaker 1: Whitney really gonna, you know, stand out?
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Or is it like you know, when you get like
Speaker 1: the Braxton family or Jackson family and all of them sing.
Speaker 1: Do you think it comes from that? Where do you
Speaker 1: think it comes from us trying to? So?
Speaker 2: I mean you were joking about, Oh I would sing?
Speaker 2: If you know Rumby, why don't you sing? But it's
Speaker 2: like I feel like everyone can sing, right, So I
Speaker 2: think there's an element of that for sure. But I
Speaker 2: also think of it being so common again, I guess commonplace.
Speaker 2: So then it's like there's no real value, but also
Speaker 2: as valuing professions or things that's seen esteemed in some
Speaker 2: degree but not necessarily a core part of who we are, Okay,
Speaker 2: I see. And so it's a catch twenty two. And
Speaker 2: I think sometimes that all white is right and black
Speaker 2: is whack. You can hear rhymes element of it all
Speaker 2: and self and self hate, like self hate is a
Speaker 2: part of it due to many reasons which we've spoken about.
Speaker 1: We tied it all back to colonialism. Don't we somehow
Speaker 1: find our way? It's therefore back.
Speaker 2: Pay reparations, reparations, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think because for so long we're told we're not
Speaker 1: good enough. Yes, that now we almost believe it into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then if you I mean, one of the things
Speaker 1: I love about going to South Africa is seeing black
Speaker 1: people on billboards. Oh yeah, because it's such a and
Speaker 1: we talked about in our privilege episode. We didn't really
Speaker 1: talk about that, like seeing ourselves everywhere as a privilege,
Speaker 1: yes or not? Right, And when you live in a
Speaker 1: country like this where it's like they're proudly Australian, but
Speaker 1: that's also proudly one version of Australian. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: First Nations people here too. They should be on billboards
Speaker 1: just as much, but it's that they catering to a
Speaker 1: certain demographic, certain market. And then it becomes okay, where's
Speaker 1: your people want to have blonde hair, they want to
Speaker 1: have like contacts in because they you know, they want
Speaker 1: to align themselves with whiteness, because that's what they see
Speaker 1: and that's what's being perceived. As you know, in my
Speaker 1: ideal world, if I had to create a world and
Speaker 1: want everyone to be seen equally, and thus the world
Speaker 1: is mixed, yeah, you know, everyone sees everyone, everyone sees everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like in this scenario where it's like you have
Speaker 1: to be a certain body shape, certain to look a
Speaker 1: certain hair color, eye color. Then it becomes if you're
Speaker 1: not that, you're either going to resent it or you're
Speaker 1: going to try and become met There's only two options
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Right, But when your hips ain't fitting and then jeans, girl,
Speaker 2: what you're gonna do? We're leggings. Would you ever consider
Speaker 2: or want to be anything but black, even just for
Speaker 2: a day.
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, it's quite sad that I've actually stopped
Speaker 1: to answer that, right, Yeah, I just meant to be,
Speaker 1: oh well, love being black. I think I would want
Speaker 1: to be a white guy named Paul.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, but just around with that energy
Speaker 2: so people aren't judging, respect, respect my name as soon
Speaker 2: as how white guy and still get like excellent results.
Speaker 2: That's what I really think.
Speaker 1: That's what I would love to experience. Just how does
Speaker 1: it feel like? Because if I'm too confident, I'm bitchy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if I'm too quiet, I'm meek, I don't know anything,
Speaker 1: or I'm dumb. If I'm too like everything, I'm too
Speaker 1: And if you move all those twos and you soften
Speaker 1: yourself up, who are you? You've lost that quirk that
Speaker 1: makes you that person.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: So sometimes I'm like, what does it feel to be average? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I still have the cornfeet.
Speaker 1: I still have people be like, who are talented? Come on,
Speaker 1: that's I'm just talking about the general Joe who can
Speaker 1: still somebody you know, revered or think of himself as
Speaker 1: I forgot.
Speaker 2: It, I got it, I'm the ish. Yeah, what do
Speaker 2: you think? I definitely just one day. I'm not forever,
Speaker 2: because I also like my rhythm and you know, I
Speaker 2: like my hair. There's a lot I like about myself.
Speaker 2: I like my hair, like you know, But just to
Speaker 2: be like, wow, how the other whatever? Fifty percent said.
Speaker 1: Tying it back to the Bobby movie when Ken left
Speaker 1: Barbie Land and it's like.
Speaker 2: Oh, life like this, It's good. Good. I'd love to
Speaker 2: experience that for a day. But then I think, like
Speaker 2: we offer so much, And I think part of the
Speaker 2: journey of life is to embrace all of you and
Speaker 2: to love being you, because there's no point wishing to
Speaker 2: be what you're not. Yeah, because you're denying a part
Speaker 2: of yourself. So I think I've worked too hard to
Speaker 2: embrace myself and appreciate myself to just be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I take it.
Speaker 1: You know, I think I would only like it in
Speaker 1: spaces where decisions have to be made. Yes. So like
Speaker 1: you know, when you saw Beyonce on the Renaissance movie
Speaker 1: spoiler a lot, but she pretty much wants certain lighting
Speaker 1: or certain fish eye camera. Yeah, and they're like, you
Speaker 1: don't have you don't have it. You know, that's the
Speaker 1: widest we've got yet. I used Google and obviously don't
Speaker 1: want to Beyonce. So you know, there is access to money,
Speaker 1: there's access to It's not like they can turn around
Speaker 1: and say, oh, you can't afford it. Yes, we decided
Speaker 1: for you know. Then they're like, oh, yeah, it is there.
Speaker 1: Like usually their response was oh yeah, So either they're
Speaker 1: trying to fuller it and make it seem more too lazy.
Speaker 1: They assumed she didn't know what she was talking about.
Speaker 1: But whatever the situation was made me think had that
Speaker 1: conversation happened with the assistant assistant assistant assistant of the director,
Speaker 1: who's a white guy, then it would have been fine.
Speaker 1: You know, even if it was just someone who has
Speaker 1: no experience, they would have been like, oh, he knows
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. But it was just Beyonce and
Speaker 1: it's still making a question.
Speaker 2: When I saw that, I was like, it's late for me.
Speaker 2: What a good luck?
Speaker 1: So I think I would love it when it's like
Speaker 1: decision making time, because then the respect would be there,
Speaker 1: the being able to just say what I want to
Speaker 1: say in mind and not be judged yes.
Speaker 2: Or definitely accused or not?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Should I keep quiet or should I
Speaker 1: push in this space and then keep quiet on that one?
Speaker 2: I can't push on every angle again, bringing back to succession,
Speaker 2: just because I've been that dad whatever it was the
Speaker 2: name logan, Oh my gosh, Like he feels like he
Speaker 2: deserves the world and to have his cake eat it
Speaker 2: too and then yours and nobody can tell him nothing.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of I'm about bad life just for
Speaker 2: a day, because I think you also need to be nice,
Speaker 2: just to be nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it about blackness that you feel then
Speaker 1: intimidates other races? If there is?
Speaker 2: I think we have that source cuf flavor, we have
Speaker 2: that thing that she can't put your finger on. It's
Speaker 2: the X factor that it thing. So it's like, how
Speaker 2: come you get to have that and I don't? And
Speaker 2: that's why they try to emulate us Maley cyrus.
Speaker 1: That you're talking to someone specific.
Speaker 2: So that's why they try to emulate or to be it,
Speaker 2: because it's like but they do it, but they still
Speaker 2: can't do it, like how we do? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? And I think that's why people struggle to
Speaker 2: embrace and I think, yeah, for fear of being what's
Speaker 2: the word not washed out, but like being made redundant?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, again, you have to keep yourself relevant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fact that we've been able to stay
Speaker 2: relevant and you know, push boundaries in spite of all
Speaker 2: the oppression.
Speaker 1: If we were allowed to be our full self Yoko your.
Speaker 2: World watch it. I don't think they would have been
Speaker 2: able to handle it.
Speaker 1: But don't you think and this is plain Devil's advocate
Speaker 1: that they could, you know, especially like let's say, for example,
Speaker 1: white people can think the same thing about us trying
Speaker 1: to emulate them, you know, the wearing of context to
Speaker 1: have different color eyes. Okay, but a problematic my waves
Speaker 1: sammaring a weave today like that type of vibe that okay,
Speaker 1: but then if you're so proud, why can't you just
Speaker 1: because you guys didn't let us sorry, Yeah, exactly, if
Speaker 1: I wear my AFRO at work, it'll be condeemed, it'd
Speaker 1: be deem unprofessional. Yes, so because you do that, then
Speaker 1: I'm forced.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, you guys said it a lie that we
Speaker 2: are made to not fully embrace all of us. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give them that.
Speaker 1: I like, no, you tried, but no, I think the
Speaker 1: loudness is intimidating. We're typically like we spoke about going
Speaker 1: back to our first episode of the special, how you
Speaker 1: think you're an intro of it? And I said, if
Speaker 1: I didn't know you, I would probably think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it's very loud, it's confident. So those things can be
Speaker 1: seen I think by other races to be intimidating, you know,
Speaker 1: like we don't know. We also don't respect space because
Speaker 1: our culture doesn't respect.
Speaker 2: Space online, especially bubwins. We take over and I'm like
Speaker 2: relaxed at of thing is like people marrying due to
Speaker 2: different cultures. They expect you to just adopt the Zimbabwean culture.
Speaker 2: I had to do fifty five to remind me, like,
Speaker 2: there's a whole other person with a whole other culture.
Speaker 1: Can we respect just assume yours is the one to
Speaker 1: be revered and followed too, confy.
Speaker 2: So now we're too confy, even in the oppression where
Speaker 2: too CONFI imagine if we were up a last time,
Speaker 2: you know, it's too much. I feel like calm down.
Speaker 2: Like Rama said, what would you say to a young
Speaker 2: black person trying to find the beauty in their blackness
Speaker 2: in the madness of our world? What would you say?
Speaker 1: I would say, don't compare yourself. There's no other you. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I think that's quite important to you. Want to fit in,
Speaker 1: of course, but don't fit into the point where it's
Speaker 1: like you're not you. Yeah, Celebrate those parts of you.
Speaker 1: Educate those parts of you. You know, sometimes people just
Speaker 1: shun or seem like they're not interest because they don't know.
Speaker 1: We're all waiting to be exposed to things. I know.
Speaker 1: When I first moved to Australia, Asian culture was a
Speaker 1: whole big exposure for me as well, because at home
Speaker 1: was just everyone's Asian Chinese. You know, it is Chinese, Like, no,
Speaker 1: there's this whole continent that's not just so I think,
Speaker 1: like it took a lot of education for me, took
Speaker 1: a lot of interest, took a lot of for me
Speaker 1: to be like to peel away and understand the culture,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of times people just look
Speaker 1: at its surface level. Yes, and I think I'll say
Speaker 1: advice to people who feel misunderstood and sometimes maybe stop
Speaker 1: it sucks. You have to be always in an education
Speaker 1: but when you are a minority, obviously some part of
Speaker 1: you might always have to stay in that learning or
Speaker 1: educating space, just so that people when they interact with
Speaker 1: you can walk away better for it. They understand the
Speaker 1: nuances within blackness. Whereas if you just do everything to
Speaker 1: fit in and lose yourself, you're not benefiting what got
Speaker 1: you there to begin with.
Speaker 2: True, and you also have to be the bigger person,
Speaker 2: which is like her saying learning It's like why can't
Speaker 2: people learn about me? But it's just unfortunately the way
Speaker 2: the world is wired. But also learning, think of learning
Speaker 2: for your benefit as a man that has said, I
Speaker 2: think also finding your community that helps you believe in
Speaker 2: and celebrate who you are, especially when you are a
Speaker 2: minority or away from home, or find a community even
Speaker 2: who you follow on social media. Find community that feeds
Speaker 2: you to feel like, okay, I see myself. That's how
Speaker 2: you talk about representations. So kids of today, gen Zas,
Speaker 2: you're so lucky to grow up in a world where
Speaker 2: you can see people who look like you in so
Speaker 2: many spaces. When we grew up, we had magazines and
Speaker 2: never it's just like it was whitewashed.
Speaker 1: That's why Naomi Cumbll is like a mother because we're
Speaker 1: like even people tell stories about her being a devout
Speaker 1: better Saomi untouchable because she was the first supermodel we
Speaker 1: saw on ad campaign.
Speaker 2: Worldwide exactly, so in dark skin exactly. But now you
Speaker 2: can really curate your feed to feed you and encourage you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know it helps you also develop a level
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think truly your difference is something to celebrate
Speaker 2: because in a way you can bring to the table
Speaker 2: something people don't have that's special. Yeah, it is, it is, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it definitely is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you want the world to know or
Speaker 1: change their predudices about blackness?
Speaker 2: I would love the world not to be so afraid
Speaker 2: of it. It's not contagious. You're not gonna touch me
Speaker 2: and get black. I don't know, there's no other way
Speaker 2: to put it. It's it's And one thing I really
Speaker 2: want the world to know is we are just human,
Speaker 2: like you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that part.
Speaker 2: We're just we feel the same. We cry like you,
Speaker 2: we're scared like you. We we're happy like you. We
Speaker 2: literally how you feel.
Speaker 1: We have the same.
Speaker 2: We're not We're not an animal. We're not like monkeys.
Speaker 2: We're not. It's just we're just humans, just like you,
Speaker 2: with the exact same emotions, feelings, and we're just asking
Speaker 2: for a room to be alive and just respect.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, now if I agree with you, co sign.
Speaker 1: And I also think I would just add on to
Speaker 1: say that we're not here for other people's entertainment. Say,
Speaker 1: I hate it when people are like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you got some Yeah, go girl, and it's like stop,
Speaker 1: like teach me how to tour it. That's African American.
Speaker 1: I'm not even African American. I don't speak like that.
Speaker 1: And even if I do this, my choice, like it's
Speaker 1: just don't walk around assuming you know a lot and
Speaker 1: then putting those assumptions onto me. Blackness is very nuanced.
Speaker 1: You first nations, black person, me, African, African American, you know, Latina,
Speaker 1: all these different we're all the same way. You can
Speaker 1: assume someone from Finland and someone from Australia might not
Speaker 1: be same for same. It's the same way we operate too.
Speaker 1: So I think sometimes it's like you're black and it's
Speaker 1: like one one color one, whereas we know in whiteness
Speaker 1: or even sometimes even in Asian culture, you give space
Speaker 1: for different versions. And I would like to see that more.
Speaker 1: I think, not just painted with the one rush rush.
Speaker 2: You can get a black person who loves rock music
Speaker 2: and hates R and B. You can get someone. There's
Speaker 2: just so many varieties. And you know, as we always say,
Speaker 2: Africa is not a country. Yell, it's not the same.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Just because you met doesn't mean I know them, or
Speaker 2: you know a Kenyon doesn't mean I know, Like yeah,
Speaker 2: definitely that one's educate yourself. I think the basis of
Speaker 2: our podcast is we like education, Edie. The end of
Speaker 2: the day, it's laid and educations really truly, madly, deeply
Speaker 2: do Okay, But yeah, I hope you enjoy this. I
Speaker 2: think I just yeah, celebrate us and you know who
Speaker 2: we are. Even though I feel like we do a
Speaker 2: lot of the times call ourselves out, people out for
Speaker 2: the things we do, we also love it too crazy
Speaker 2: to be black, to be who we are. Crazy though,
Speaker 2: when we're in high school, we didn't really fox with ourselves.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of our culture that we need, we
Speaker 1: need therapy over those high school we were actually found
Speaker 1: that when I was in high school predominantly white school,
Speaker 1: that I that I learned how to operate and I
Speaker 1: use those same skills now that I'm in Australia. But
Speaker 1: the the like handleff with that was there. Now, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to operate in my own space, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what I've also started learning, like
Speaker 1: how to be around my own people as well. It's
Speaker 1: great to have exposure, but not to the point where
Speaker 1: you strips you of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and learning to keep quiet. I used to struggle.
Speaker 2: I to be like oh hell, and my family said
Speaker 2: what now what Sometimes you just need to be like sure,
Speaker 2: okay and not do it. I don't know. It's really
Speaker 2: like someone's just like, yeah, whatever, you know, but it's true,
Speaker 2: it's true, It's very true.
Speaker 1: What have you loved about this special room?
Speaker 2: Be being here when you yeah, like in life in
Speaker 2: the flesh, I think just seeing us what we could
Speaker 2: be if we weren't long distance. It's always like you know,
Speaker 2: a double edged sword, like the basis of this podcast,
Speaker 2: which is our friendship, which is being long distance, so
Speaker 2: you get a taste of like, oh, what life would
Speaker 2: be like if we were closer, But definitely grateful to
Speaker 2: have this, to have it in this setup, the team
Speaker 2: helping us, you know, who have been so lovely. I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just been like such a special moment. As I said,
Speaker 2: it's something I'd love to tell my future kids, God
Speaker 2: willing that we managed to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a special moment in time. Yeah, and for
Speaker 1: you have love that we've taken time to do this
Speaker 1: and elevated as Yeah, because we're in a studio, child,
Speaker 1: let me come out.
Speaker 2: It's different from.
Speaker 1: Our laptop on zoom, like, it's a different und.
Speaker 2: We go back. Guys, please don't hit us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I want to.
Speaker 2: Go back to a little bit little people.
Speaker 1: This is a special that's why, because it's special.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but don't hit on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to get on your zoom literally, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's just that we did acknowledge that, okay,
Speaker 1: and we need to do something a bit special for
Speaker 1: our listeners, for ourselves, for ourselves, for the culture, as
Speaker 1: we're saying. So I really really appreciate you being on
Speaker 1: board with us, our listeners and be coming on board
Speaker 1: and plane literally to fly into Melbourne. It's been such
Speaker 1: a treasure having you here.
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks for having me Melbusie. But you know,
Speaker 2: in my head just remake a room bis. Yeah but no,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this little treat.
Speaker 1: Rate us refuge all.
Speaker 2: The things like and subside, follow us all the things
Speaker 2: as we have to say. And yeah, thanks am for
Speaker 2: having a treatise.
Speaker 1: Too many more bom bom bom, boom boom
Speaker 2: By everybody.