1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Now, Well, it's that time of the year. We've got 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: kids going to awards, nights, assemblies, or the end of 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: year's ceremonies. Whether they're in primary school or high school, 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: whether you're in a private school, Catholic school, a Christian school, 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: a public school, this is the time of the year 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: where schools reflect and reward what's gone well during the year. Kylie, 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: we have sat through so many of these with our 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: six kids over the years, and it's kind of natural 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: when you see all the other kids walking up on 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: the stage to get their merit awards and their badges 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: or to be awarded the prefect or school captain or 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: house captain labels to feel a little bit disappointed when 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: your kids are sitting there at the front of the 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: hall and they're not being caught up to the stage, 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: and it's disappointing not just for us as parents, but 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: it's also disappointing for the kids, Like you can see 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: it on their faces. They're craving the recognition that their 20 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: peers or some of their peers are getting, and they're 21 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: not getting it today, I want to talk about this 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: particular issue. 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: I remember when our eldest children were young, we had 24 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: a lot of awards. Back in those early days, they 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: were recognized for lots of different things, and I won't lie, 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: it was really nice. 27 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: Feels nice. 28 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: Just seeing my kid up there feels nice. And as 29 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: more kids came along, less awards. Became a parent and 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: I wonder whether those wards are more about the parents' 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: participation in their children's lives or whether it is actually 32 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: about the kids. But regardless, I think as our ideas 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: around education and awards and all of that has changed 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: over the years, it's less of a pinch point for me. 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: I kind of find those award nights quite hollow in 36 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: lots of ways because there is such a limited scope 37 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: to what we are celebrating in our children, and academics 38 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: is such a small, teeny tiny part of who our 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: children are, and there's only so many awards that go out. 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: So when I look at an awards night, often we 41 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: attend and there'll be maybe two, three, four kids who 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: just seem to be up getting every award. And as 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: I've sat there and I've looked at it, it's occurred 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: to me that out of a school of two thousand kids, 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: you're trying to tell me that four or five kids 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: are the only kids working really hard. It just doesn't 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: sit with me. 48 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: Well, I want to run through a couple of things 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: that kind of get under my skin around these awards ceremonies, 50 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: and I'm going to be pretty blunt about it and 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: use research science to support what I'm saying. But then 52 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: I think we also have to acknowledge that the system 53 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: is what it is. It's not going to change well 54 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: in most schools, most places, and so therefore we need 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: as parents to be equipped to know how to help 56 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: our children to handle the disappoint that they experienced when 57 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: they don't receive an award, especially if they thought that 58 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: they might have been in with a shot. And by 59 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: the same token, how we can deal with our own 60 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: disappointment when we thought our kids might have been within 61 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: a shot and they didn't get it, and we're kind 62 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: of going, yeah, let's smile while everyone else and clapped 63 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: for everyone else's kids and nothing happens. So I've got 64 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: some problems with rewards generally, and this actually happened for 65 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: us just recently. I haven't told you this or not 66 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: so this is a scoop on air. We were nominated 67 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: for the second year in a row to win the 68 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Best Parenting Podcast in Australia Award at the recent Australian 69 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Podcast Awards, and for the second year in a row, 70 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: we were one of the top finalists, but we missed 71 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: out on the gold that went to somebody else. And 72 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: part of me is just going why, Like, we do 73 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: a really great podcast and people really like the podcast, 74 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: and we get lots and lots of downloads and we 75 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: get so much great feedback, and it's about that. This 76 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: is the problem with rewards. It shifted me when I 77 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: found out that we were finalist again and didn't make 78 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: it again. Shifted me away from the focus of what 79 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm really trying to achieve with this podcast, and it 80 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with winning an award. The award 81 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: is so we don't sit here and think how can 82 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: we win an award? 83 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: Well, as you're telling me this, you told me that 84 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: we'd be nominated, and it kind of went in one 85 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: air and out the other because it doesn't really matter. 86 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: It's not going to change the way we do things. 87 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: So I haven't been waiting with pated breath to find 88 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: out whether or not we actually made it through or not. 89 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the problems with rewards. Number one. 90 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: I'm actually going to make the argument that rewards are 91 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: a punishment in and of themselves to the other ninety 92 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: nine percent. So rewards a mutually exclusive Not everybody can 93 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: get one. And of course we have a culture where 94 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: if everybody does get a participation trophy, if everybody does 95 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: get a prize, everyone really gets upset about that. It's like, no, 96 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: we can only reward excellence, we can't reward mediocrity. And 97 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: so because awards by their very nature are exclusive, what 98 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: happens is that they start to feel more like a 99 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: punishment for everybody else. They really appeal to the top 100 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: one percent or the top two percent, or whatever it 101 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: might be. Like you said, you've got a school of 102 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: hundreds or even thousands of kids, and it's the same 103 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: ten kids across the school that are scooping up all 104 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: of the awards and winning everything. There are so many 105 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: solid performers that are overlooked, and I think this has 106 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: a really significant impact on motivation for both those who 107 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: are the high achievers but also those who are not 108 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: getting the awards. It's very very rare that a student 109 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: goes I didn't get the award, but next year, I'm 110 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: gonna get it. I'm going to do everything I can. 111 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure that it's me next year. Granted, 112 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: some do, but the vast majority don't. The vast majority 113 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: feel dispirited because they can't compete with the cool kids, 114 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: or the smart kids, or the sporty kids, or the 115 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: humanitarian award kids who just seem to know how to 116 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: inject themselves into the community and do good things well. 117 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: And not only that, they actually know what effort they've 118 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: put in themselves better than anyone else does. Teachers are amazing, 119 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: absolutely amazing, hands down doing it such a good job, 120 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: but their perspective. 121 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: Is different, and they can't possibly be expected to know 122 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: everything that's exactly wrong. Ought to be able to measure 123 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: effectively the degree of difficulty required for a student to 124 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: get to a certain level. So this brings me to 125 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: the two other main points that I wanted to make. Okay, 126 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: So number one, there's the impact on relationships. So the 127 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: kids who aren't getting the awards, they often not always, 128 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: but often we'll look at the kids who are getting 129 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: the awards and there can be a little bit of 130 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: tall poppy syndrome, a little bit of sour grapes, our gripes, 131 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: whatever it is. They're sort of looking at the kids 132 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: and going, oh, they're just so much better. And relationships 133 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: can feel uncomfortable, especially when competitiveness is brought into it, 134 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: but also feeling judged by teachers, whether we want it 135 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: to happen or not. A side effect can be that 136 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: kids can feel like the teacher doesn't get them, and 137 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: the relationships can really be harmed. Furthermore, relationships can be 138 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: harmed at home when parents are saying, but you just 139 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: need to work harder, and then parents start to push 140 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: the kids and the kids start to rebel. So rewards 141 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: and awards and I'm not saying this happens universally, but 142 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: they can really backfire in relationships. But picking up even 143 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: more on the theme that we've kind of I guess 144 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: has threaded everything that you and I both said. Ultimately, 145 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: rewards and awards are ignoring reasons. So why is it 146 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: that there are a handful of kids or a handful 147 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: of families that pick up all of the awards at 148 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: the end of the year. It could be because they're 149 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: just naturally talented. Some families just have sporting genes or 150 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: math's brains, or academic orientations some families. There is there 151 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: is a very clear relationship between income, having resources and time, 152 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: and children doing well at school. We know from napland 153 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: tests that you can tell which schools are going to 154 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: do well and which schools aren't going to do well 155 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: on napland not by the quality of the teachers, but 156 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: by the post code the school is in. There's simply 157 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: a relationship between income and education standards. It exists. It's undeniable. 158 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: It's really not very politically correct to say it, but 159 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: it's the reality, and so all the kids that are 160 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: getting the awards, especially when we're seeing the same families 161 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: represented quite often and again not always, but quite often, 162 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: this is a reflection of socioeconomic status, finances, resources, much 163 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: more than it's a reflection of children's natural ability or 164 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: what's happening in the education process. Furthermore, other reasons that 165 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: might be overlooked. We might be rewarding tiger parenting well. 166 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: I was about to say, there's enough anecdotal evidence over 167 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: the years of children who've achieved greatness but at the 168 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: cost of their relationships right with their parents because there 169 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: was never a choice that they wouldn't succeed. 170 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: So these rewards and awards might actually just be reinforcing 171 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: perfectionism on the part of either the parents or the 172 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: students or both, and so they might concerns with rewards. 173 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: There's some of my consents. There are more, but in 174 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: this podcast we don't have time to go through all 175 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: of them. Nevertheless, awards knights are going to continue in 176 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: spite of Doctor Justin Colson's concerns about them and preference 177 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: for us to not do them. 178 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: So my question is, then, is it okay to acknowledge excellence? 179 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: I love this question and the answer is yeah. But 180 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: the key word is acknowledge okay. And there's also developmental 181 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: reality to this. So when children are younger, they do 182 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: a lot less well around the idea of awards and rewards, 183 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: and it really can affect them. It can affect their 184 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: identity confect it really really affect the way they see 185 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: themselves as either being a loser, or being a smart kid, 186 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: or being a sporty kid, or being an unco kid, 187 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: or like kids put these names and way worse things 188 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: than what I've just said on themselves when they either 189 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: do or don't get the awards. So, from a developmental perspective, 190 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: once kids get into their mid teens, the much more 191 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: neurologically and emotionally ready to understand how this stuff works. 192 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: But bringing this into earlier childhood, I'm saying sort of 193 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: eleven or twelve and under, particularly primary school, there's just 194 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: no place for it. I don't think that it should 195 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: be there at all. Second thing you've said, is it 196 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: okay to acknowledge excellence? There's a difference between acknowledging excellence 197 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: and rewarding excellence, and to me, the word acknowledge is 198 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: critical here. Is it okay to acknowledge excellence? Absolutely it is. 199 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: It's okay to celebrate and be delighted about it. What's 200 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: even better, though, is to get the kids to acknowledge 201 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: it themselves so that they can see how they're progressing 202 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: and learning. Once we start bringing rewards in, we've moved 203 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: from not just acknowledging excellence but lifting it up and 204 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: creating a sense of exclusivity around it. And if we 205 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: can't get everybody else to that same level, I think 206 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: we have a problem. This is why I'm a big 207 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: fan of competency based education, because what we're saying is 208 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: we're not so interested in people being absolutely excellent right now. 209 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: We just want everybody to know how to do this 210 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: stuff and to be able to enjoy it, whether it's learning, reading, math, sports, 211 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Let's just go and enjoy the process. 212 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: So I guess the question is, if we recognize that 213 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: the system's not going to change, we're going to have, 214 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: on a yearly basis, the vast majority of kids disappointed 215 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: because they're either not recognized or they feel harshly done 216 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: by because they've worked really really hard and should be 217 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 2: standing up there and being recognized and or not. So, 218 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: as parents, how do we navigate their disappointment and probably 219 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: sometimes ours? 220 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: So before I share, I've got five things and I'm 221 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: going to wiz through five things in like two minutes. 222 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: But before I do that, what have you specifically done 223 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: with our kids when perhaps I haven't been there because 224 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: I've been giving a talk somewhere, or they've come to 225 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: you and they've been disappointed themselves. 226 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: So I'm going to be completely honest, I actually don't 227 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: think that we've had a huge amount of disappointment in 228 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: our home in relation to this, And I think it's 229 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: primarily because we have not put the emphasis on awards 230 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: and rewards. What I feel we've been able to do 231 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 2: is foster a love of learning in our home and 232 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: encouragement of our kids working to their level of capacity 233 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: in any moment. There's an acknowledgment that from week to week, 234 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: month to month, our capacity changes based on whatever's happening 235 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: within our lives. 236 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: And I guess they've heard me talk for so many 237 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: years about how education does matter, but how you perform 238 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: at school isn't the most important thing in your life. 239 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: So what I've loved is even when the kids haven't 240 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: done as well as they would have hoped or wanted to, 241 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 2: they've been able to celebrate the fact that that, in 242 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: spite of the challenges they've been experiencing in their lives, 243 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: that they recognize that they've done a great job for 244 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: them for that moment in time. 245 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, we do talk to them about this stuff a lot. 246 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: Five things in two minutes or less that I think 247 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: we can do if our children are disappointed or if 248 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: we're disappointed. At Number one, let's make sure that we 249 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: act consistent with what our values are, or at least 250 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: what we profess our values to be. What I mean 251 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: by that is so. One of my favorite studies to 252 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: site was a Harvard study done a handful of years 253 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: ago where researchers asked kids, do your parents care more 254 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: about your grades or more about your character? And the 255 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: kids said grades. They asked the parents, do you care 256 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: more about your kids' grades or more about your kid's character? 257 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: And the parents said character. There's a mix up in 258 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: the messaging here. Parents are saying I care about your character, 259 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: I care about who you are, I care about who 260 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: you're developing into. But the kids are only getting the 261 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: message you care about my performance at school. 262 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 2: And I guess that's where the conversations we have in 263 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: our home are so important. Yeah, the conversations we have 264 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: with our kids are all about character. 265 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Then the more we emphasize grades, the more we 266 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: emphasize academic outcomes, sporting outcomes, whatever it is, the more 267 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: we give our children the message that that's what matters. 268 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: Where our conversations are focused is where our children are 269 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: going to think that our values lie. Second thing, I 270 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: think that it's important to teach your kids to sit 271 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: with disappointment. That's life. Sometimes life doesn't work out well. 272 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes you just can't win everything. Sometimes you don't get 273 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: to be up on stage getting the applause. In fact, 274 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: sometimes you never get to be the person who does that. 275 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: And the conversation then is, so what does that say 276 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: about you? 277 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: I think it's even more than that. I think it's 278 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: why are you doing it? If the only reason our 279 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: children are motivated to do something is because they're going 280 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: to get an award at the other end, then we've 281 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: actually done them a disservice because the idea that the 282 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: learning in and of itself is the reward. We learn, 283 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: we grow, we improve, we develop, that that's the reward. 284 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 2: And yet as a society we've actually taken that joy 285 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: out of learning and made it all about a piece 286 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: of paper. 287 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: The third thing that I would mention is I just 288 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: have chat with kids about talents. We've all got them, 289 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: what are we going to do with them? You mentioned 290 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:11,359 Speaker 1: this earlier, Kylie. Schools recognize a very very very limited 291 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: array of talents. In fact, array is the wrong word, 292 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: because there are so few that are recognize. It's like 293 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: when you watch Australia's Got Talent and everyone gets up 294 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: and sings like there's a whole lot more talents out 295 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: there than being able to sing, there's the ability to 296 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: appreciate art. There's the ability to create art. There's the 297 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: ability to design. There's the ability to speak, There's the 298 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: ability to feel and comfort and lead, and like the 299 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: list is just as long as you want it to be. 300 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: There's all of these unique talents. School assemblies recognize a 301 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: handful of them, and they're not even the most important ones. 302 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: And so talking to your kids about that and highlighting 303 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: what talents do you have can be tremendously powerful. 304 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: What's ning for? 305 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: Talk about status and recognition? What does it mean to 306 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: get the status and recognition? Do you want the award 307 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: or do you just want to be noticed? Do you 308 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: want to be a math's brain, do you want to 309 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: be a sports star or do you just want people 310 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: to say nice things about you? Because once we start 311 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: to get into that, we start again to get into motivations. 312 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: Why do you feel sad? You feel sad because you 313 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: didn't get the recognition, or you feel sad because you 314 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: worked really hard and you feel like you should have 315 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: but nobody noticed. We start to get into the nitty 316 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: gritty of this, and ultimately, I think if we can 317 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: help our kids to recognize that recognition like this is 318 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: so arbitrary and it's so much about luck and how 319 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: things play out. What matters is who we're becoming, not 320 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: how we're being recognized for it. 321 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: Next year, no one's going to be asking about the 322 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: award they got last year, and in five years time, 323 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: it's not even going to be a consideration. Regardless of 324 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: how many awards you get. When you're sitting in that 325 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: office for an interview, you're not going to be dry 326 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: sharing with them that you won the Excellence Award for 327 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: biology in grade ten doesn't matter. 328 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: You've stolen my fifth and final idea. And by the way, 329 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: I said two minutes, but you keep on sharing so 330 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: many interruptions, so many great things that we've gone more 331 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: than two minutes. But I want to share this last 332 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: one really quickly and emphasize take the long view, which 333 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: is just what you've said. That's my fifth and final one. 334 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: Nobody that I know has on their Twitter profile I 335 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: was the Grade three swimming champion, or I was the 336 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Grade seven ducks or anything like that. Like the long 337 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: term view, None of this stuff matters. It really doesn't. 338 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: Once you get out of school, nobody's asking the question 339 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: nobody's waving the flag. Nobody's looking at the trophy that 340 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: they got in second class and saying, oh, look at 341 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: how good I was as a runner in second grade. 342 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: Here's my little green ribbon or my little blue ribbon 343 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: for having won that race. We just don't do that 344 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: because as we get older and we have more perspective, 345 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: we realize how limited this whole sphere of education is 346 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: in terms of living a full and whole life. So 347 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: we hope these five ideas been helpful in navigating the 348 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: end of yer assemblies and the attendant disappointment that's all 349 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: but guaranteed for so many families. Thanks so much for listening. 350 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rollin from 351 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd 352 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: like more in fun about making your family happier, we'd 353 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: love for you to join us at our Facebook page 354 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: Dr Justin Colson's Happy Families, or at happy families dot 355 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: com dot au.